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Star Wars VII : (No Spoilers please)

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mac8867

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Apr 5, 2010
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I am going out on a limb assuming there are a bunch of other Sci-Fi lovers on the forum. When the new trailer for Star Wars VII came out this weekend, I think I watched it a few dozen times. There were the inevitable hater comments, JJ Abrams will ruin the franchise type stuff etc etc...

Personally, for me, it Star Wars. I will love it, guaranteed! Very excited. How do others feel?
 
I don't think the trailer really showed, enough.

I'm not a SW fan, but likely will see it just because I'm nosy about how Ford, Hamill, and Fisher will turn out... plus I'd love to see what big bad role they have for Max von Sydow. :D

For me, seeing a black Storm Trooper kind of makes me hate the Empire less. I always assumed they were like pro-Aryan space nazis kind of a thing. The fact that they employ other ethnicities is welcome, of course, but less evil than I originally thought.
 
I'm excited. Star Wars is still a great series. The prequels weren't great but still enjoyable for the most part. I'm not a massive of fan of Abrams but the new Star Trek movies were pretty good relatively speaking. I'm sure they'll take in lots of money and be wildly successful regardless of how well they do critically speaking.

Edit to add. Regardless of Abrams directing style he'd have to be the biggest moron on the planet to know that that 4, 5, and 6 were much more loved than the prequels. I'm sure that was taken into account.
 
Perhaps it's just me - but I do think that the original Star Wars film holds up a lot better than the latest (pre)sequels. Those felt like we were pitched into a computer game with an emphasis on potential toy product placement. Everything is so overwrought, glossy and stylised that that original magic got comprehensively lost.

While there's bits in the original that are really clunky (that nowadays you could probably do far better even in Modo, Maya or Cinema 4d) there's some real movie magic too. The filmic grainy twin setting suns on Tatooine (which I guess was done photographically) is still really evocative and works better than most GCI scenes you see. The blurry shots of the landspeeder whizzing along (I think that was quite literally done with mirrors) - There's a credibility about it that even now shines through the obvious 70's film grain!

I'd hope that they rethink they way they do things a bit - less video game and be a bit more analogue if that makes sense?
 
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Yes it was done with mirrors!

Totally agree that the old school way of doing things was better than the modern CGI prequels. Made it somewhat more real IMO.

Although the last three movies were somewhat disappointing, I'd rather they made new movies than didn't. As I have said elsewhere, just wish Disney hadn't dumped all the stuff that's been written since episode 6.

Here's hoping JJ does a better job than most are fearing.
 
Let's see. An 88 second teaser trailer (with only about 36 seconds of actual footage). The final edit should come in a bit over 2 hours (7200 seconds). So we've seen 0.5% of the movie - if these shots actually get included in the final film.

I like what I have seen, but I'll hold my opinion until I've seen more.
 
I know it's very popular these days to bitch and moan about CG and ignore the advances it has brought to cinematography, however, I'd like to point out a few things in it's defence.

I am a professional Visual Effects artist and have been working in the film industry for 14+ years. I hate the prequels and the look of the CG in it. As I do the look of many CG-laden features coming out for release these days. But I know better than to blame the Visual Effects Industry as a whole for it. Rather, I blame the the suits, the directors and the supervisors for driving the overall look and the dwindling budgets. For the past 10+ years or so, as CGI has grown in popularity with film-makers, studio executives have relentlessly, mercilessly been driving down prices (while star-cast wages have been going up massively), increasing shot-count, expecting better quality in a shorter amount of time with greater flexibility to make changes (despite fixed bids), and no commitments (they won't sign off on anything).

The amount of work that goes into producing a seamless photo-real CG character, let alone an entirely photo-real shot/environment, is staggering and very difficult, despite what popular media and those 'making-of DVD extras' would have you believe. It really is not 'press-of-the-button stuff'. It takes skill, experience, patience, of everybody involved. A hero shot, can take many months (sometimes more than a year) to create, with dozens of artists' input, and hundreds upon hundreds of versions before the final look pleases the clients.
When you've got 1200+ of those photo-real shots to do, with not enough (senior) crew and an unrealistic budget, something's gotta give. And it will be the quality as sadly can be evidenced more often than not these days. The pressures on Visual Effects artists these days is harsh.

Also, Lucas may have had the vision that started it all, but he is a dreadful director and script writer. Choosing to shoot an entire film in blue-screen studios still is a recipe for disaster. Many of my colleagues will tell you they feel our craft is being mis-used in this manner. We strongly feel that if a set can be (partially) built on location, or a character be filmed in situ by a person in a suit or with prosthetics/make-up, then that's what should be done. CG is too often being relied on to "fix" lazy film making. The phrase "We'll fix it in post", is an often heard joke that basically means more unpaid overtime for a gullible "geek behind a computer", to clean up the mess others made.
Thankfully, JJ Abrams has a better track record here than most directors. Alfonso Cuaron and Christopher Nolan even more so. Using CG only when practical effects would be prohibitive and compromise their vision of the shot. And that's how it should be. But try telling that to the executives with their hands on the purse-strings. It is, after all, much easier and cheaper to bully non-unionised VFX-companies/artists around to make changes (to a shot, to a character design, to... anything and everything), over and over again no matter where we are in the production schedule, than it is to re-shoot on location and having to pay cast and stage crew who are unionised. Tragically, changes are often made just because they can... not because it makes for a better story.

That said, I have better hopes for this new trilogy than I do for the woeful prequels. I love the look of the teaser. I just wish they hadn't brought aboard that baffoon Andrew Serkis.
 
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No, not excited. Rather, somewhat disappointed. To be honest, I would have preferred something entirely new, creative, and original, to a re-cycling, retelling or resurrection of a rather familiar tale.

Are there no new stories to tell? Must we experience the endless re-telling, re-cycling, and resurrection of a tale that is already over a quarter of a century old? Surely, the dismal and ghastly 'prequels' are their own answer to this.

Is it not therefore, possible to come up with a new story, or, at the very least, something which challenges the original, which seeks to subvert and test the assumptions of a tale already told, without having to resort to the tried and trusted, the tired and reassuringly familiar?

Now, I have no quarrel with the iconic position in cinematic history of the original Star Wars franchise. However, surely it is possible to run the risk of telling (and financing) a new story? But must we endure an endless retelling and recycling of Star Wars and Star Trek movies, and universes (and I write as someone who loved Star Trek), with the same characters, same settings, and similar stories, rather than striking out, and running the risk (financial and artistic) of not succeeding by trying to tell the story of something different?

Is it that writers fear the proverbial artists' block, or artists the blank canvass, as financiers must fear failure, that they all seek to replicate what was successful rather than try something new? I know that in times of stress, uncertainty and unease, the reassuringly familiar offers comfort. Indeed, the remaking a version of the reassuringly familiar also offers a guaranteed financial return (rather then the wild profits or bewildering failure of taking a risk on something unknown...)

Sometimes, a story is so new and stunning that those who have been told the story do not know until they have seen it that they needed to be told this tale, which was the case with the original Star Wars story, and which is why it still retains its iconic status in mind and memory.
 
Tbh the Star Wars and Star Trek reboots are nothing compared to the super hero rehashing of late.
Batman
Spider-Man
Hulk
Superman

Come on guys? How often can we see the same story with different actors and 'better' cgi?
Stop milking those cash cows!
 
I'm definitely not looking forward to Episode VII. The moment I heard JJ Abrams was directing I was done. The guy is severely overrated and does nothing but butchers existing franchises. He makes compelling original content but sucks continuing the work of others.

That said, The Force Awakens trailer didn't even meet that low bar that I held for it. It didn't have the same tone as previous Star Wars movies and was nothing more than a circle jerk for the unquestioning die hard fans that watched IV, V, and VI as children and grew up with these movies.

Seriously, I saw videos of people online flipping out because they saw the X-Wing and Stormtroopers again but said nothing about that awful rolling R2-D2 and even more awful lightsaber.
 
Scepticalscribe said:
... Sometimes, a story is so new and stunning that those who have been told the story do not know until they have seen it that they needed to be told this tale, which was the case with the original Star Wars story, and which is why it still retains its iconic status in mind and memory.
Click to expand...

I always regarded the original Star Wars as a retelling of a rather old story that basically followed archetypes found in fairy tales and legends, e.g., a simple farm boy goes off on a grand adventure and discovers he's really not just a simple farm boy with the help of interesting characters he meets that mentor and help him achieve his destiny, etc. ;)
 
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Disney bought it for 4 point something billion. At stake is more than just a movie, it's the fandom. Disney isn't going to let that go to waste.

I'm excited for the movie.
 
localoid said:
I always regarded the original Star Wars as a retelling of a rather old story that basically followed archetypes found in fairy tales and legends, e.g., a simple farm boy goes off on a grand adventure and discovers he's really not just a simple farm boy with the help of interesting characters he meets that mentor and help him achieve his destiny, etc. ;)
Click to expand...

Agreed, it was an old story - a very old story - but the original trilogy was very well told and the fact that it was located in a new setting lent it a new dimension.

I don't mind re-visiting an old universe if there is something new to be said about it, - which I suspect is not the case here - but I have a horrible feeling that this attempt to resurrect a legend is purely for reassurance both for the putative audience and for the risk-averse financiers of the whole thing.
 
thejadedmonkey said:
Disney bought it for 4 point something billion. At stake is more than just a movie, it's the fandom. Disney isn't going to let that go to waste.

I'm excited for the movie.
Click to expand...

Agreed, they have a franchise to protect and extend. I will say with the teaser that was released. It definitely had a real Star Wars feel to it. Now hopefully the story line will back up that look and feel.
 
I saw the original movie back in 1977, I was and always will be a giant nerd when it comes to SF/Comics.
I am very interested to see this, I just hope that I live long enough to finally see this franchise end.:p

I do hope that this time around there is far more scope for a real story line, and not just a way of introducing characters to boost the sales of merchandise.

Episodes I, II, III, were a disappointment nearly no story line, flat acting, and an over reliance on CGI. It had the feel of a movie made just to sell toy figures, there was very little of the magic. But of course I still went to see them all.:eek:


Over the years I’ve had a love/hate relationship with the franchise, Jar-Jar extra, the scenes added, etc. But it still is the touchstone of SF movies, everything is related to that movie, including the AF, Collectors items which now days so dominate nerd culture.
 
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Happybunny said:
Episodes I, II, III, were a disappointment nearly no story line, flat acting, and an over reliance on CGI.
Click to expand...

Out of those three, I have to say episode III was the best imo. I agree, though the acting was largely flat. The story line was ok, but could have been so much better. There were so many directions in which they could have taken the story line of Anakin turning into Darth Vader. I think the clone wars and using them to kill off most of the Jedi was a good idea, and could have been used as a nice back drop against a larger encompassing plot.
 
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I am trying to keep my expectations at an even keel and am failing miserably. Thankfully, I will have plenty of other distractions between now and next December, but I am Luke-ing forward to Episode VII.

I think it's great a fan already got a tattoo of the ball droid.

Lone Deranger thanks for your comments about working as an artist in the VFX industry.

I am still very much a practical FX geek, but do respect some C.G.I. and the work involved. I can't imagine the hours, the math :eek: and patience which is needed to render a fully realized, believable character. I agree with the nice balance between practical and C.G.I. - I think J.J. might very well nail that. From what little has been shown, I already believe in his SW universe more than the prequels.
 
Happybunny said:
I saw the original movie back in 1977, I was and always will be a giant nerd when it comes to SF/Comics.
I am very interested to see this, I just hope that I live long enough to finally see this franchise end.:p

I do hope that this time around there is far more scope for a real story line, and not just a way of introducing characters to boost the sales of merchandise.

Episodes I, II, III, were a disappointment nearly no story line, flat acting, and an over reliance on CGI. It had the feel of a movie made just to sell toy figures, there was very little of the magic. But of course I still went to see them all.:eek:


Over the years I’ve had a love/hate relationship with the franchise, Jar-Jar extra, the scenes added, etc. But it still is the touchstone of SF movies, everything is related to that movie, including the AF, Collectors items which now days so dominate nerd culture.
Click to expand...

I-III were technically impressive, that is about it. I like the concept of Anakin's conversion to the dark side. And I blame Obiwan for not killing him when he had the chance. (Not really, because we would have been deprived of this version of A New Hope.) ;)
 
Lone Deranger said:
I am a professional Visual Effects artist and have been working in the film industry for 14+ years. I hate the prequels and the look of the CG in it. As I do the look of many CG-laden features coming out for release these days.
...
The amount of work that goes into producing a seamless photo-real CG character, let alone an entirely photo-real shot/environment, is staggering and very difficult, despite what popular media and those 'making-of DVD extras' would have you believe.
Click to expand...

Some of us other professional software engineers, while we don't know much about CGI, can definitely understand and respect the hard work it takes to make great CG... so thanks for persevering.

I admit, with episodes 1,2 and 3, I missed the old days of the meticulously placed model, single camera shot, repeat a thousand times... ahla: Empire Strikes Back snow battle.

I am not a technical expert on film, so I tend to miss/ignore the glaring things a lot of more keen folks see, sun spots, shaky cameras etc... So, give me some leeway before blasting me here.... I like what Abrams did with Star Trek, and am hopeful I will feel the same about his Star Wars.
 
But why the need to tell and re-tell the same story or variations on that theme? Are there no new stories - which, when well told - will leave an audience awestruck, as the original Star Wars movies did over a quarter of a century ago?

To me, it is a tired cliché, having to remake and re-tell the same stories. Worse, it is a most dispiriting sign of the painful lack of artistic creativity along with the financial cowardice that much of the entertainment industry has fallen prey to these past few years.
 
I did not like the teaser trailer, but I'm excited for the movie all the same. It really can't be any worse than Episode I was (and I kind of like Episode I lol).
 
Scepticalscribe said:
But why the need to tell and re-tell the same story or variations on that theme? Are there no new stories - which, when well told - will leave an audience awestruck, as the original Star Wars movies did over a quarter of a century ago?

To me, it is a tired cliché, having to remake and re-tell the same stories. Worse, it is a most dispiriting sign of the painful lack of artistic creativity along with the financial cowardice that much of the entertainment industry has fallen prey to these past few years.
Click to expand...
Star Wars was always going to be a 9 part series. These new movies are not out of the blue. They were planned by Lucas over 30 years ago.

When Disney bought the rights to Star Wars they also bought the treatments George Lucas laid out going forward.
 
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