20 inch iMac Released

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by Potus
The point of the iMacs is an all-in-one consumer model that saves desk real estate.
My iMac is great. My desk is a lean clean machine. And there's still an awe! factor when people see it:
My imac
The speakers, two cds
a book
a pen

keyboard and mouse in out-of-sight keyboard tray

As compared to my other desk: beige G3 on computer cart (too large to fit inside), external hard drive inside computer cart, bulky Sony CRT monitor on desk, along w/ printer, iBook, lamp, extra keyboard, pda dock.

Use both sites but the iMac desk is a thing of beauty. it's definitely more zen.
Besides we've all been there with the pizza boxes: not a pretty sight.

Although the cube is/was definitely awesome.

iZen?

I've got a beige box in the coat closet with wires running through the wall to a black Sony flatscreen sitting in the corner of my bar. The keyboard tucks away on a custom drawer and cordless mouse sits on the bar. That's it, except for the PowerMate knob that controls the volume out to the stereo where the computer's connected (RCA out ports in the beige still work!) 19.7 days straight of mp3s. An iMac would only make my surface more cluttered.

A great idea would be to make a paintable computer that would install in a wall between standard 16" spaced studs. REALLY get them out of site.

 

[nagromme]

Macs not bad gaming choices, and not premium-priced either

I WOULD buy a Mac for gaming.

* More games out than I could ever buy or play anyway.

* Macs get the fixed version, not the buggy first release.

* A more usable, trouble-free system benefits ANY user.

There is certainly a reason for hard-core gamers to buy PCs and tinker and patch, and get more games sooner. I'm not arguing otherwise. But don't discount the Mac as a valid choice of game machine. Gaming is not one of Mac's key niches, but speaking as a gamer, I'd never buy a PC.

(Consoles have their place--but they have serious disadvantages over a computer too: my Mac gives me downloadable mods, mouse control, free demos, higher resolution, etc.)

And I don't see Macs as a whole being more expensive, although people like to parrot that. Compare ALL the specs and you'll find it hard to price out a better deal on a Wintel machine than most Mac models. I just paid under $2600 shipped, for a widescreen 15.2" 1.25Ghz PowerBook WITH a full 1 GB RAM pre-installed, 80 HD, SuperDrive/DVD-RW, three kinds of wireless pre-installed (b/g/BT), lighted keys, three speakers, Firewire and FW800, gigabit Ethernet (auto-converts between crossover and patch cables!), DVI/VGA/S-Video/Composite video out with spanning, Cardbus, 64 MB Radeon 9600 Mobility, V.92 faxmodem, a great software bundle with unmatched iApps, Panther, AND a color printer/scanner/copier, laptop briefcase, and laptop cable lock. (MacConnection.) I can find a Wintel laptop with one or two specs higher for the same price... and a LOT of other features lacking. There are similar great deals on the eMac, G5, iBook, etc.

(Yes you can buy a cheap PC stripped down further than a Mac in some areas, while maintain high specs in other areas. Or build your own. Apple offers nothing at the extreme low-end, I realize--and something headless there WOULD be smart.)

All of which leads me to one conclusion: if people want the 20" iMac, that's great--it's a cool machine with plenty power for a lot of uses. But to make this a good choice for more buyers, Apple really SHOULD have updated some other specs--especially the video board and RAM. Speed, and GPU in particular, are the first things that make a closed all-in-one obsolete. A $2000+ machine with 20" LCD ought to run next year's games well. And using the new G4 with boosted L2 cache--like the PowerBooks--would have been nice if higher Mhz was not available.

Meanwhile, a college student who is into movie-watching or videography more than games would love one! That IS an awesome display, and the iMac physical design remains spectacular.

 

[jxyama]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
it makes the protowers look so much better but a lot of people dont want a gigantic metal beast! Apple says you cant have it your way( as in the pc world) you must buy protower we will not give you a powerful consumermachine. and we will force the monitor on you. our way or the highway so what do millions do? they go out and get a pc!

like alienware towers aren't gigantic?

apple gives you a powerful consumer machine for consumer use. what apple doesn't give you is a powerful "consumer priced" machine for gaming use.

please do not equate "consumer use" with "gaming" just because you happen to be a hardcore gamer and not a "pro" user. IF "consumer use" was really the same as "gaming" then, apple would have put more thought into offering a gaming machine. but apparently, apple's selling fine without specially catering to such a market.

would you be upset at alienware if you tried to use their machines for critical server applications and didn't give you the best performance for the buck?

yes, they go and get a PC. and it's apple's way or the highway. but apple's doing fine, catering to the most of the market.

 

[the_mole1314]

Yeah, but for access you have to go into the coat closet to change CDs.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

Re: i agree that its an odd realease

Originally posted by dieselg4
A very odd release, given that they processors kinda went nowhere and there wasn't a price drop either. WOulda beens well to see at $100-$200 drop on the ohter machines.
Maybe even 15" 1099 17" 1499 20" 1899 for combos
and 15" 1299 17" 1699 20" 2099 for Supers.

And if not a G5, then G4 1.33's and 1.42's . .

well its motorola, we have been going nowhere for years so i guess apple thinks we are just use to it! i can see it now next summer apple releases a faster imac the all new 1.3 g4!!! meanwhile the protowers are at dual 3 gig.

 

[cornboy]

20" imac

Chaps,
Step back a little. what time of year is this? This is about driving traffic, shifting imac bases and spreading the word, so that Apple doesn't have an inventory 'mare come February. Giving Apple something new to talk about. More traffic = more iPod sales, more Panther converts, more familiarity. And because only 8 people are going to buy this machine it will drive loads to looking at the 'middle of the range' 17" and realising what a cool thing it would be to have that in the lounge come Christmas. 7/10 infrequent restaurant goers order the second cheapest bottle of wine.....
2 weeks before Christmas there will be some price drop or 'bundle' deal on the 17 & 15 inchers, or I'll eat my mistletoe.

 

[choogheem]

i guess you are running at 640 x 480 with everything off

I'm running at 1440 x 900. Again, like I said, many things are not that fluid, but I don't believe that the iMac is a major gaming platform. I know the apple website touts the iMac (heck even the eMac is touted as a killer graphics platform Blistering 3D effects) as being a good graphics platform Spectacular 3D Effects). I bought my iMac for school and science applications, the gaming is a nice aside. I don't think we should view the iMac as a major gaming platform.

 

[Trimix]

Re: Re: Re: Totally agree with you Lancetx

Originally posted by TorbX
I'm one of those people - and I'm not even a grandparent

So am I and I love it. Will get the 20' asap.
Happen to run huge spreadsheets on it and my entire company is on it too ($6.5mio turnover in 03 - on one 800 15' imac )
Never let me down one minute, running 16 hours a day
go go go apple

 

[choogheem]

* Macs get the fixed version, not the buggy first release.

Umm, I'm not too sure about that. Several games that were ported to OS X have some issues with them from personal experience. I can say that some companies are nice enough to send free copies of other games though for the inconvience.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

im sorry but if you expect me to think you are running your games at 1440 x 900 and they are even remotely smooth on a 4mx then you must think iam a newbie. i think you mean your screen is 1440 x 900 also you cant turn on some things with a 4mx anyways go ahead and pay top dollar for the worst videochip(not card fx5200 and top dollar for a stuck in the same old mud G41.25. then when the machine is obsolete you have to get rid of the monitor. this is a stop gap measure thats why no hoopla. the real machine comes out next year lets just hope they get off the g4 and get off the mx series of cards which by the way the fx5200 is a rebranded mx. so this year imac went from 1 gig to 1.25 gig! WOW!

 

[jxyama]

Don't Hurt Me-

your points are made already - iMac for $2k+ doesn't have good CPU/videocard for gaming.

do you have anything more constructive to say?

 

[~Shard~]

Re: 20" imac

Originally posted by cornboy
2 weeks before Christmas there will be some price drop or 'bundle' deal on the 17 & 15 inchers, or I'll eat my mistletoe.

Hmm, now there's an interesting prediction - anyone care to start speculating on this possibility? I think that would be a pretty good idea...

 

[Lancetx]

Well, whether you like the iMac or not (and I do by the way), I really don't think they are going to move very many of them until they either have a major revision (i.e. G5) or a substantial price cut. Anyone in the market for a consumer machine right now will get infinitely more bang for their buck if they go for the eMac instead. There are some that will pay the premium for the style of the iMac, but let's face it, you get a lot more for your money from an eMac right now. That's why I'm baffled at their decision to put out an even more expensive iMac today while leaving the existing ones at the same price.

Those sales numbers from Apple's financial report are for iMac and eMac sales combined, I don't believe they break them down separately. I'd be willing to bet they sell as many eMacs as they do iMacs these days. IMO, the eMac is the real switcher machine, not the iMac, at least as it stands right now and the eMac is certainly a much better value.

 

[1macker1]

I dont experience any slowdown and i'm running full screen. Somethime must be wrong with your mac, I only have 256M of RAM, and it's older iMac 800Mhz, but it could be that i'm not a big time gamer. But it looks better than the UT2k3 that i play on my XBOX.

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
i guess you are running at 640 x 480 with everything off,also take another look at the d-day beach landing! the sad fact is for over 2 grand it has 1 single stagnated 1.25 g4 and the slowest cheapest video chip. they dont currently make a cheaper chip the fx5200? to have such a nice display it ashame. it makes the protowers look so much better but a lot of people dont want a gigantic metal beast! Apple says you cant have it your way( as in the pc world) you must buy protower we will not give you a powerful consumermachine. and we will force the monitor on you. our way or the highway so what do millions do? they go out and get a pc!

 

[mrsebastian]

pretty sweet, but kinda expensive no?

 

[Dahl]

Re: 20" imac

Originally posted by cornboy
Chaps,
Step back a little. what time of year is this? This is about driving traffic, shifting imac bases and spreading the word, so that Apple doesn't have an inventory 'mare come February. Giving Apple something new to talk about. More traffic = more iPod sales, more Panther converts, more familiarity. And because only 8 people are going to buy this machine it will drive loads to looking at the 'middle of the range' 17" and realising what a cool thing it would be to have that in the lounge come Christmas. 7/10 infrequent restaurant goers order the second cheapest bottle of wine.....
2 weeks before Christmas there will be some price drop or 'bundle' deal on the 17 & 15 inchers, or I'll eat my mistletoe.

Exactly.
These new products are not important enough to premiere at a big Apple event and Apple needs to drum up some attention for their productline for the holidays, so this it a good way for them to do so.
I'm not sure who needs a 20' iMac, we all want one, but do we need one ?

I'm still waiting for Apple to get serious about some new displays.
I have two old CRT's for my new G5 and I think new displays must be coming soon, if not new sizes, at least prices and design. Why are Apple dragging their feet ? Are they waiting for an big event ?

 

[eyrii69]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
the point is consumers are gamers sorry to point this out and i know the mac community has a problem with this, it looks like apple does to because they have a crappy cpu mated with a crappy videochip mated to a wonderful display and then want the old arm & leg. go to inside mac games or macgamer or... tell me consumers are not gamers and also tell me why a brandnew 2 thousand dollar machine struggles with UT2K3?this means newer stuff will only get worse? face it apple is pawning off old & slow technology to the unknowing and imac sales show that perhaps the consumer is smarter then they give them credit for. the fx5200 is the worst go to any benchmark page on that,toms hardware,barefeets whatever. anyways this is a dog my advice is to stay clear get a emac or protower or wait and perhaps they will get it right next year.

I am curious, what PC can you buy for gaming hwen you are supposed to have a 20 inch, flat widescreen display?

As far I know Apples 20" inch is the cheapest on the market, at least here in Norway. Let us have a look:
$2199 iMac 20"
-$1299 20" Apple cinema display
=$900 left for the PC, including superdrive.
Superdrive adds maybe $200 to a PC, this gives me $700 to buy the PC. Tell me what PC to have for this amount of money, and if it will be good for the games you mentioned. Oh, and do not forget Macusers usually are willing to pay some more, so the PC really should not cost more than $600.

By the way, I think the hardcore gamer also will avoid "slow" LCD displays in favor for regular CRT-displays, which are known to be faster.

 

[illumin8]

Why did they cripple it?

I think it's a good deal to get a 20" Cinema display with a G4 attached for not much more than the cost of the display itself, but Apple has totally dropped the ball by putting the terrible Nvidia 5200 graphics chipset in this machine. Couldn't they have put a much more capable ATI Radeon 9600 in there? It just seems to be a joke that Apple continues to use these shoddy chipsets. Steve must be still holding a beef against ATI for leaking pre-release information years ago. It's just sad to see a personal beef against another company drag the quality of a lot of Apple products down.

I know I personally won't ever buy an Apple product that has an Nvidia chipset in it. I have nothing against Nvidia really, but everyone that follows the industry knows they have fallen behind ATI and their products now are slower, larger, and put out more heat than ATI's do.

 

[pkkrusty]

actually a good move...

If you think about the cost of developing the 20" iMac, this move is a logical one. There was absolutely no R&D, since all you have to do is produce an already-designed plastic case for the 20" screen. Stick it on an iMac and you're done. This was a very low cost move for Apple with marginal rewards. They will sell x-thousand units of this thing before the new iMac comes out next year. That's all they're looking for. There's a small market out there for non-upgradeable 20 inch iMacs, and Apple is in it now.

This explains why there was so little fanfare. It wasn't a big deal, and Apple knew it.

The dual 1.8 signals to me that speeds are being bumped up and the dual 1.8s are being intriduced so that they become 'botoom of the line' at the next update. This will leave the entire G5 family dual.

 

[chrisnturkey]

Hi folks,

I don't presume to arbitrate between those who think this machine is cool and those find the same old specs disappointing. (if find them so myself). I wish they could have stuffed a modestly clocked G5 in there. (That's what I get for praying to God I don't really believe in!) Nonetheless, I have to cast another ballot for grandparent usage. I use my machine ALL the time for music and surfing mainly but also productivity/work and for photos. My G3-350 tower (bless it) is perfectly great for almost everything I do. I only play strategy games so I will gingerly side-step that issue ....

AND, not to be deprecating to our gaming friends, but the world is full of people who don't give a rats-ass what kind of graphics chips set is inside (our don't even know what that is, for that matter). The percentage of women in the world, I'm told, is approaching 50!

As far as I'm concerned, two things might make it worth parting with a hefty dollop of my oh-so-hard-earned pittance: 1) The screen is probably just big enough for my to justify watching movies on ... and throwing away the TV. 2) Is there a cooler looking computer? (and what if when they finally put a G5 in it it doesn't match my ipod?!?)

My hope, and it is only that, is that there are still a few people left out there like me for whom the computer is a lifestyle toy and who want the coolest looking one around.

Oh and one question to those in the know: Are those bundled speakers worthless for high quality audio? Is buying a sub-woofer enough or would I have to go all out? Thanks!

cheers

 

[1macker1]

tech tv LAN party, powered by Nvidia

On tech tv they say most games dont even use the power that's in most of the new graphics cards. They use Nvidia graphics card all the time,and they say that they are pretty good cards. I dont see the problem.

 

[vrapan]

mac gamers

my opinion is that apple has several reasons not to bother with gamers.
the hardcore gamers wont bother with macs really. that is because they rarely are fast enough for the latest games, many games take several months if not years to be ported (BG2: Throne of Bhaal), several companies do not even bother to inform people if they are planning on a mac version of their games and generally there is too much lag and uncertainty for someone who plays games. iMacs therefore are not gaming machines. even if they came with a 1.5GHz proc and stuffed with FX5600 or Radeon 9600 they would still not be used as gaming machines. i am not so sure how well the 20" iMac will sell but it wouldn't sell to the gaming market anyway. someone that buys a mac needs to also know that he/she either has to restrict his gaming to few, oldish, low spec games or buy a console or a PC to accompany his/her Mac.

the only problem i see with that is that Macs are stripped out of one of the uses PCs tend to have and that is gaming. Consequently they lose some of their value since they can;t do something the "enemy" can.

i own just a 12" PB (first gen) and i really can't play many new games. i do not regret switching to the mac i love the platform but in first opportunity i wont be buying a new mac but i will be building a gaming PC....

 

[choogheem]

The dual 1.8 signals to me that speeds are being bumped up and the dual 1.8s are being intriduced so that they become 'botoom of the line' at the next update. This will leave the entire G5 family dual.

Very good speculation - and I hope you're right. And when they do, I'm sure to buy. (At least I hope, dream)

 

[AirUncleP]

Originally posted by Lancetx
I still don't see how this will help improve the slow iMac sales one bit. Had the 20" come in at $1,999 along with a $200 price cut on both the 17" and 15" models this would have been good news, but if $1,799 17" iMacs weren't selling well, then $2,199 20" models certainly won't. Especially considering they didn't bump up the RAM, hard drive, graphics or anything else over the existing 17" model. I must say I'm rather disappointed.

A 17" iMac and a 20g iPod ($2198) vs. a 20" iMac ($2199). It's a no brainer.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

tell you the truth the wide 17 is nice and 20 even more so, but the problem is the technology is obsolete, g5 has made g4 obsolete, ati 9800 is so far ahead of a fx5200, guess ill just keep waiting for that day say a imac 20 inch and 2.0 g5. anyways nice display