2006 Mac Pro: Easy 64-BIT Windows 10 native installation (no bootloaders or EFI hacks)

Discussion in 'Windows, Linux & Others on the Mac' started by flyinmac, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. flyinmac, Aug 4, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015

    flyinmac macrumors 68030

    flyinmac

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Location:
    United States
    #1
    Sharing with the community

    Using the below method, anyone should be able to install any version of Windows 32-BIT or 64-BIT on their Intel-Based Mac without any concern for whether the machine is EFI 32 or EFI 64, and regardless of Apple's willingness to support that version of Windows with Bootcamp.

    The 2006 Mac Pro 1,1 with 32-BIT EFI can successfully and easily boot and run the 64-BIT version of Windows 10 (Final Release) without any major modifications.

    For those who care, here is my Geekbench profile. I didn't pay for Geekbench, so the results are only the 32-BIT Benchmarks, despite being run on a 64-BIT version of Windows 10. Naturally, not optimal for benchmarking. But, I posted a comparison of this Mac Pro 2006 running Geekbench on Windows 10 Pro 64-BIT and Mac OS X 10.7.5 Lion. Both results are in my profile, and fairly comparable to each other. I'll probably add a couple other machines with Windows to my profile for comparison purposes.

    My Geekbench test results
    http://browser.primatelabs.com/user/flyinmac

    Keep in mind that since we are not using BootCamp, Apple's bootcamp software appears unwilling to run in Windows 10 in this configuration (unsupported machine / Windows environment combination). So, here's what I did after Windows was installed.

    Since I still have the factory nVidia 7300GT installed, I went to nVidia's website, and did a search for the latest Windows 7 x64-BIT drivers. I did not run their configuration program. I extracted the drivers, and went into Windows' Device manager, and updated the drivers in there manually for the graphics adapter by pointing it at the folder of drivers I downloaded from nVidia. This worked great.

    I also downloaded both the 4.0 and 5.0 bootcamp drivers, and let Windows device manager search those extracted folders for the IDE / SATA controller drivers.

    Sounds, and ethernet, etc. all seem to work fine. I can't find anything that isn't running smoothly. I have not tried Airport, I never use it anyway on my desktops. But, it should work.

    My Mac Pro appears as any normal PC to Windows 10 64-BIT.

    My Mac Pro has had it's firmware updated from 1,1 to 2,1 making it think it's a 2007 Mac Pro... But, that is of no consequence or effect on this operation.

    This technique should work with any Macintosh with an Intel Processor that meets the requirements of Windows 10. If you don't have a 64-BIT Microprocessor, than it should work with the 32-BIT version of Windows 10 also. But, since the Xeons are 64-BIT, I went with the 64-BIT version of Windows 10.

    Now, the easiest solution, would be to install Windows 10 on a hard drive using a different computer, such as a PC, and then not activate it until after you have placed the hard drive into the Mac and booted from it.

    But, lacking such an option, I went a different route.

    I used VMWare Fusion 5.x running on my 2006 Mac Pro under Mac OS X 10.7.5 Lion. The trick, is to make VMWare use a real hard drive instead of a virtual drive.

    There are ways to do this with other virtualization software, but I don't have them, so that's your experiment :D

    I also understand that newer versions of VMWare kind of balk at this technique... So... you might want to try an older version if you have trouble. VMWare Fusion can be used in trial mode for approx 30 days I believe, so it's a free option that'll work long enough to perform the task. You won't need it afterwards (an you won't want to use it afterwards anyway - The emulation environment will appear as a separate computer and Windows 10 doesn't like being activated twice).

    And, lastly, this technique does not use bootcamp, and bootcamp will refuse to acknowledge it. So, you will not be able to pick which machine you want to boot from. You'll have to hold down the OPTION KEY at start-up and pick your Windows partition there to boot into Windows.

    And, the caveat... This is all done at your own risk... It worked for me, should work for you, but it's your computer, your data, and all risk is yours. Please make backups of all your data first. Did I mention you're doing this at your own risk? :p

    I had a hard drive already Partitioned and Formatted with the GUID scheme, and the first partition was a Mac OS Extended (Journaled) partition. The second partition was formatted to NTFS and had Windows Vista installed on it (previously used with bootcamp).

    I set up a NEW virtual machine in VMware Fusion 5.x, and configured it to be a Windows 7 machine (not 64-BIT), with 4 GB of RAM and 2 processor cores. I then pointed VMWare Fusion to use my Windows 10 ISO image as the installation CD (alternatively you could point it to a real CD if you wanted).

    I then saved that virtual machine as it was, without further alterations.

    There are a few issues that need resolved from there. First, the Virtual Machine defaults to setting up a virtual hard drive. We need to get it to ignore that drive. We also need to point it to our real hard drive or partition for the install destination.

    Go into Disk Utilities on your Mac in OS X. Click on the drive (or partition) that you wish to install Windows on. Make sure it's already formatted to NTFS, and that the partition scheme is set for GUID. If not, configure it that way now (repartitioning if you have to). Remember to backup anything important first, before doing anything (especially if repartitioning / reformatting).

    Now that your drive is configured properly, click on the drive (or partition) that you will be installing windows on. In my case, my Windows partition was disk2s3.

    disk2 is the drive
    s3 is the partition

    Your disk number and partition numbers will vary depending on your configuration.

    Also, make note of the specific size of your Windows / NTFS partition. You'll want to make sure you're installing to the right partition later, so you don't accidentally overwrite something else. Make note of the other drive's and partition sizes as well, so you can easily tell which ones they are when you get to the install point.

    Now for the fun :D

    Making note of the disk number discovered above for your Windows / NTFS partition, you will need to open TERMINAL. Go to the spotlight search on your Mac, and type in terminal, and launch the program.

    You'll be in a window with a command line interface. Don't be scared, it's not that bad.

    copy and paste (or type) the following line exactly into Terminal and then press Enter

    cd "/Applications/VMware Fusion.app/Contents/Library/"


    Now we're going to make the link to the physical hard drive.

    Remember my partition was located on Disk 2... you will need to be absolutely certain that you change the disk number to reflect the correct disk on your computer. Copy and paste (or type) the following line exactly into terminal MAKING SURE THAT YOU CHANGE THE DISK NUMBER TO THE CORRECT NUMBER FOR YOUR WINDOWS / NTFS DESTINATION DISK.

    ./vmware-rawdiskCreator create /dev/disk2 fullDevice ~/physical-hdd ide

    Now... this has created a link file that should reside in your HOME folder on your Mac... go take a look and make sure that physical-hdd.vmdk is in your Home Folder on your Mac.

    Now for the really fun part :)

    Remember the virtual machine that we made earlier? I hope you remember what you named it. I'm going to call it "Bob" (I like Bob) lol.... But, you'd better remember what you named it, because whenever I say Bob, change "Bob" to whatever you named it.

    Using Finder, you should be able to locate Bob in the "Documents/Vitual Machines" folder on your hard drive.

    Right click on "Bob" and choose "Show Package Contents"

    Now, you're looking at "Bob's" innards... :cool:

    keeping this folder view open, use another finder window to locate the file we made called "physical-hdd.vmdk" in your "Home" folder.

    move or copy that "physical-hdd.vmdk" file into Bob's innards.

    now... you need to edit a file that is located in Bob's innards... Remember, you need to use the name you gave your machine instead of Bob...

    So, the file you're looking for is "Bob.vmx" (so your machine's name with the VMX extension).

    right click on Bob.vmx and select Open With, and choose Text Edit.

    Go down to the very end of the file that you are now looking at, and type or copy the following lines.

    ide1:1.present = "TRUE"
    ide1:1.fileName = "physical-hdd.vmdk"


    We're not quite done yet.

    You also need to disable the SCSI devices that are listed. Scroll through the document, and anywhere that you see a reference to SCSI that says "Present" change "True" to "False".

    When all that is done, go to the file menu, and choose "Save a Version". Then close Text Editor.

    Now, all I can say at this point, is experiment. In my case, since I had Windows Vista already on that drive, when I launched Fusion, it booted me into Vista within the Fusion emulator. I found that amusing, it confirmed I had everything working, and I shut Vista down, and then went into the settings in Fusion for that Machine (I'm calling him Bob) and chose the Startup disk, and made the startup disk to be the CD (remember in my example, the Windows 10 Install CD is an ISO image).

    When I was booting from the CD, it eventually prompted me for an installation drive. This is where it's important to be careful. Make sure that you tell Windows to install to the proper hard drive and partition. Use the name you gave the partition as a partial indicator, and pay close attention to the drive / partition capacity, and make sure that it matches what it should be for your destination location.

    If everything looks right, proceed to install Windows 10 64-BIT onto your hard drive.

    Once it has been completely installed, do not activate it yet. Shut it down in the emulator / Fusion.

    Now, restart your Macintosh and hold down the OPTION key. Now, choose your Windows 10 disk, and boot from Windows. It may give you a white screen for a moment, just be patient. Wait.... let it do it's thing. Don't panic.

    When Windows comes up, log in as normal. And, then activate it.

    Do not activate it in VMWare Fusion. Your activation is tied to the computer it thinks it's on. Make sure you wait to activate it until after you are actually running it directly on your Macintosh natively. That way your Mac will forever be blessed with the privilege of running Windows 10 :D

    This method avoids all the 32-BIT / 64-BIT EFI issues. And, is working great for me.

    May your machine have a long and prosperous future secure in having the latest 64-BIT Operating System installed natively.

    Best of luck to all of you.

    Below I have pasted the contents from my Bob.vmx for you to reference and compare should you have any trouble.

    The lines in Pink are for you to notice, and compare to your situation. Add them if needed. Naturally, change "Bob" to the right name for your machine, and any path's to files modify to your system and volume / hard drive and folder names.

    Lines in Blue, make sure they're there. Lines in Purple are the one's we've added based on the steps / directions above.

    Good Luck, and hope this helps...

    You're friend,

    flyinmac



    .encoding = "UTF-8"
    config.version = "8"
    virtualHW.version = "9"
    memsize = "4248"
    mem.hotadd = "TRUE"
    ide1:0.present = "TRUE"
    ide1:0.autodetect = "TRUE"
    ide1:0.deviceType = "cdrom-image"
    ethernet0.present = "TRUE"
    ethernet0.connectionType = "nat"
    ethernet0.virtualDev = "e1000"
    ethernet0.wakeOnPcktRcv = "FALSE"
    ethernet0.addressType = "generated"
    ethernet0.linkStatePropagation.enable = "TRUE"
    usb.present = "TRUE"
    ehci.present = "TRUE"
    ehci.pciSlotNumber = "35"
    sound.present = "TRUE"
    sound.virtualDev = "hdaudio"
    sound.fileName = "-1"
    sound.autodetect = "TRUE"
    mks.enable3d = "TRUE"
    serial0.present = "TRUE"
    serial0.fileType = "thinprint"
    pciBridge0.present = "TRUE"
    pciBridge4.present = "TRUE"
    pciBridge4.virtualDev = "pcieRootPort"
    pciBridge4.functions = "8"
    pciBridge5.present = "TRUE"
    pciBridge5.virtualDev = "pcieRootPort"
    pciBridge5.functions = "8"
    pciBridge6.present = "TRUE"
    pciBridge6.virtualDev = "pcieRootPort"
    pciBridge6.functions = "8"
    pciBridge7.present = "TRUE"
    pciBridge7.virtualDev = "pcieRootPort"
    pciBridge7.functions = "8"
    vmci0.present = "TRUE"
    hpet0.present = "TRUE"
    usb.vbluetooth.startConnected = "TRUE"
    tools.syncTime = "TRUE"
    displayName = "Bob"
    guestOS = "windows7"
    nvram = "Bob.nvram"
    virtualHW.productCompatibility = "hosted"
    proxyApps.publishToGuest = "TRUE"
    tools.upgrade.policy = "upgradeAtPowerCycle"
    powerType.powerOff = "soft"
    powerType.powerOn = "soft"
    powerType.suspend = "soft"
    powerType.reset = "soft"
    extendedConfigFile = "Bob.vmxf"
    numvcpus = "2"
    cpuid.coresPerSocket = "2"
    ide1:0.fileName = "/Volumes/OSXHardDrive/Windows10_x64_EN-US.iso"
    ide1:1.present = "TRUE"
    ide1:1.fileName = "physical-hdd.vmdk"

    ethernet0.generatedAddress = "00:0c:29:a9:c7:ec"
    ethernet0.pciSlotNumber = "33"
    usb.pciSlotNumber = "32"
    sound.pciSlotNumber = "34"
    vmci0.id = "95012844"
    vmci0.pciSlotNumber = "36"
    uuid.location = "56 4d 7a bf 71 9c 20 6a-89 e7 91 03 05 a9 c7 ec"
    uuid.bios = "56 4d 7a bf 71 9c 20 6a-89 e7 91 03 05 a9 c7 ec"
    cleanShutdown = "TRUE"
    replay.supported = "FALSE"
    replay.filename = ""
    pciBridge0.pciSlotNumber = "17"
    pciBridge4.pciSlotNumber = "21"
    pciBridge5.pciSlotNumber = "22"
    pciBridge6.pciSlotNumber = "23"
    pciBridge7.pciSlotNumber = "24"
    usb:1.present = "TRUE"
    ethernet0.generatedAddressOffset = "0"
    vmotion.checkpointFBSize = "134217728"
    softPowerOff = "TRUE"
    usb:1.speed = "2"
    usb:1.deviceType = "hub"
    usb:1.port = "1"
    usb:1.parent = "-1"
    ide0:1.redo = ""
    ide1:1.redo = ""

    bios.bootOrder = "CDROM"
    usb:0.present = "TRUE"
    usb:0.deviceType = "hid"
    usb:0.port = "0"
    usb:0.parent = "-1"
    gui.viewModeAtPowerOn = "windowed"
    scsi0.present = "FALSE"
    scsi0:0.present = "FALSE"

    floppy0.present = "FALSE"
     

    Attached Files:

  2. flyinmac, Aug 5, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015

    flyinmac thread starter macrumors 68030

    flyinmac

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Location:
    United States
    #2
    I posted 4 benchmark tests in my Geekbench profile for comparison.

    There is a benchmark for Windows 10 Home 64-BIT running on a newer (1 year old) HP Laptop with an AMD Processor, and one running on an older Dell Core2Duo computer. The other two are from the Mac Pro 2006 detailed above, and in both Windows and OS X.

    The old Mac Pro fares pretty good with Windows 10 Pro 64-BIT installed. I did this in hopes of extending the useful life of my aging Mac Pro. And, now it's set for a reasonably long future with Windows 10, even though Apple abandoned OS X support on it a long time ago. With performance on-par / better than the newer HP Laptop I have (which is typical new machine performance), I don't see any reason why my old Mac Pro shouldn't have a long future left ahead of it. Even if it isn't the leader of the pack anymore like it was in 2006. It's still as good as middle of the road computers today.

    I was going to post a comparison of Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 running under VMWare's Fusion for a comparison of the performance difference between running natively and under emulation environments. However, a 3 minute benchmark running natively was quite slow in comparison under the emulation environment of VMWare's Fusion. I gave up on the benchmark after 2 hours of it still running in VMWare's Fusion environment. I'd say that in itself is enough to show that running natively is significantly faster and better.

    Hope the above details help. It should enable anyone with an Intel-Based Mac to install any version of Windows on any Intel Mac regardless of EFI 32 / 64 and regardless of Apple's willingness to enable Bootcamp support.
     
  3. macenied, Aug 5, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015

    macenied macrumors 6502a

    macenied

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2014
    #3
    Thank you for your postings. For me a little bit too late ( 2-3 days ) but I am sure they will help others and as mentioned, I would have installed your way but W10 is up and running now.

    I cannot use AHCI with my bootcamp installation, which restricts SATA speed to 1.5GB compared to 3.0GB under OSX on my system. Sounds like an issue but in reality it's not, SSD benchmarks show 10% - 15% performance decrease in Windows compared to OSX. Fast though.

    Other than that, everything works fine.

    Happy W10 Pro user here. MBP 7.1 13", mid 2010, not supported by Apple to run W8/8.1 or W10.

    Thank you again !
     
  4. flyinmac thread starter macrumors 68030

    flyinmac

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Location:
    United States
    #4
    Yes, I believe mine has the AHCI set as unsupported, no driver available. But, speeds are still respectable and comparable to native OS X Lion. So, I'm not too worried about it. I figure in time, I'll find the right driver to install manually. We just need to know who's chip is in use, and can probably go from there to find the right driver.

    Mine's a 2006 Mac Pro. If anyone has any ideas on where to go for that driver, it would be great. Likewise, maybe someone will know where to go for the driver you need.

    But, I was surprised that aside from the SATA and Video and AHCI, that Windows 10 had all the drivers needed, and installed them automatically. AHCI is the only thing I think I haven't found the right driver for manually.

    Glad your installation is working for you :)
     
  5. CREO, Sep 15, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016

    CREO macrumors newbie

    CREO

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2016
    Location:
    AUST
    #5
    To hack the EFI or not - Which method is easiest? Which method is best? Purely wanting to run MacPro1,1 on WIN10Pro natively (I already have a powerful IMac as main machine), but also wouldn't mind having Sierra on it too & just run WIN10 in VM mode under Paralells which I also have. Opinions very much appreciated.

    ps: forgot to mention I have 16GB of RAM & a Samsung 850 Pro SSD ready to install as upgrades - the SSD will be the main drive (for speed) & I'll keep the spinning disc in there as a . . . . . .
     
  6. flyinmac thread starter macrumors 68030

    flyinmac

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Location:
    United States
    #6
    For my usage, I have Windows 10 installed natively and boot to it when I need to run something that won't do well in a virtual machine.

    The virtual machines present different hardware to your software. And depending on the needs of your software, that can make a difference.

    I do also have virtual machines running in VMware Fusion. And use those when the task doesn't justify rebooting.

    As for getting around the efi issue, the tutorial I posted in the first post will do the job quite effectively and permit you to bypass all Apple imposed limitations. It will get you a 64-BIT install of Windows 10.

    As for which is easier, to me that's less important than the question of which option will give you your most ideal situation.

    The easy route isn't always the most satisfying solution. Sometimes it's worth a little extra time in the beginning, if you want to be happiest in the long term.

    But that's a decision for you. Based on your needs.

    Myself, I've taken the harder route to the configuration in my signature. And it's what'll keep me happy longer.

    I could have just purchased a newer Mac. But I wouldn't have been satisfied with it.
     
  7. CREO macrumors newbie

    CREO

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2016
    Location:
    AUST
    #7
    @flyinmac - thanks for the reply, your method does seem easier which matters to me cos I don't have much time to fart around, I just want it up & running as well as possible so I can keep 'my finger on the pulse' with Windows as I don't use it much anymore with most of my time spent with OSX. The MacPro was given to me so I wanted to make use of that gorgeous tower & keep it running.

    Did you ever find a driver re: AHCI ? Are you still capped @ 1.5Gbps?
     
  8. flyinmac thread starter macrumors 68030

    flyinmac

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Location:
    United States
    #8
    The only solution I've found so far on the AHCI issue is discussed here:

    http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-enable-sata-ahci-mode-in-windows-7-8-8-1-10.1908034/

    But I've opted against it since it sounds more hazardous than beneficial. And there's no reported / observed speed increase.

    I decided to go with a separate SSD for Windows and OS X. So it's pretty fast.

    I currently have OS X Lion, OS X El Capitan, and Windows 10 as separate boot drives.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 15, 2016 ---
    As a side note, when I wrote the tutorial above, my Mac Pro was mostly original. A 2.66 GHz with 11 GB of RAM.

    I've since updated it to the workhorse it is now. Soon it'll have USB 3.0 added to the specs in my signature below.

    I thought about updating the Bluetooth to 4.0 and wifi to AC. But realized I never use wifi or Bluetooth. So would be pointless. I'd like to do it, just to do it. But my practical side says I shouldn't spend the money there.

    Otherwise, I've pushed this thing beyond where Apple ever wanted it to go.

    And it still feels as fast as the latest computers.

    In a few weeks it'll be set up to have 2 more DVD-R DL drives on it (externally) bringing me up to 4. So I can que up my projects and walk away.

    And a EIDE / SATA external connection to swap my project drives easier.

    It just doesn't stop once you open those floodgates. Lol
     
  9. CREO macrumors newbie

    CREO

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2016
    Location:
    AUST
    #9
    The many upgrades of your MacPro1,1 sounds intriguing & makes me think that a base platform of just about anything is set for the long haul regardless of what the manufacturer tells you. Do you have a central thread detailing all of your other mods for this workhorse ? Very nice & thanks for sharing, cheers :)
     
  10. flyinmac thread starter macrumors 68030

    flyinmac

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Location:
    United States
    #10
    I haven't been running a main thread on the machine. But I did write up one here recently when I upgraded the processors to an 8-core 3.0 GHz and boosted the memory and such.

    I posted benchmarks and comparisons on that as well.

    As mentioned previously, I planned to skip updating the wifi and Bluetooth. But then I stumbled on a deal I couldn't pass up today. So those parts are on the way now.

    Crazy... once you start, it just keeps going.

    It's been nice to have the machine revived into a daily use system again.

    I had relegated it to a dedicated purpose machine. Until I got tired of having other multiple machines doing tasks that this old Mac Pro could do on its own with some updates.

    The main thing holding it back was not being able to run newer software due to lack of recent OS X support.

    But getting El Capitan on there brought it back into usefulness.

    It's nice to have one machine doing everything now.

    If I need Windows, I switch to Windows. If I need modern OS X programs, I boot El Capitan. If I need my old tools, I boot Lion.

    And everything else I throw into virtual machines. I have 8 cores now, and tons of RAM. Throwing 2 cores and 8 gigs at a virtual machine is nothing now.

    These old machines have a lot of life left in them.

    I got nearly 10 years out of it as it was. I expect many more years out of it now as it is.

    This thing is far from obsolete.

    Even if Sierra won't run on it (still to be determined), it's still got a while before El Capitan will be as outdated as Snow Leopard and Lion are now. And it was still kicking with those.

    Yes, a good solid base system with expansion slots has lots of room to keep going.

    I've got PC's from 2004 that are still going. A few upgrades here and there, and they still run modern software.

    It's the modern Macs you have to watch out for. The new Mac Pro, the iMac, and new Mini are pretty much built to be retired earlier (comparatively speaking).
     
  11. Dsold macrumors newbie

    Dsold

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    Location:
    Ukraine
    #11
    Installed Windows 10 x64, everything is fine.
    But I do not work the sound of 3.5 mini-jack on the rear panel. Sound comes only from the built-in speaker.
    How to fix it?
     
  12. flyinmac thread starter macrumors 68030

    flyinmac

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Location:
    United States
    #12
    Two things to look for.

    First, make sure you have the right sound driver installed for your machine. And if you do, make sure it's the latest version from the maker of the sound card.

    I don't use Apple's drivers. I download directly from each part manufacturers website.

    If that is done, then try right-clicking on the sound / speaker icon and browse through the sound settings for your sound card. Look for a setting that selects which speakers to use / which output connection to use to play sounds. Choose the correct port for either the front or rear audio output port (depending on which connection you're using).

    And finally, if you're using a 2006 or 2007 Mac Pro, it's possible that a built-in design defect could cause sound to only be played through only one speaker. This is due to a design defect in the earlier Mac Pros. The connector that Apple used didn't make proper contact with both connection points on the audio connector / plug. Apple solved this with a custom driver in OS X. But for Windows, the computer must use the proper connection method).

    The way I fixed that issue on my system was to just add some solder to the tip of my speaker plug to make it wider. This made the plug contact the connector that Apple had improperly spaced. And then Windows could send sound to both of my external speakers without having to use a customized driver.

    Hope one of the above solutions helps.
     
  13. Dsold macrumors newbie

    Dsold

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    Location:
    Ukraine
    #13
    You are absolutely right. The problem is "originality" sockets on the motherboard Apple. Windows do not realize that the wiring is correct, the sound comes only from the sockets or dynamin on the front panel.
    Please tell us more about how you have improved plug. :rolleyes:

    P.S. The driver found the last, which is released by Realtek HD. But he is not able to switch the sound between the front and rear connectors as possible PC-version motherboards. :(
     
  14. flyinmac, Nov 9, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2016

    flyinmac thread starter macrumors 68030

    flyinmac

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Location:
    United States
    #14

    Consider that the computer can detect when you've inserted an audio plug into the rear speaker / audio output and automatically disable the internal speaker (if everything is working properly).

    This demonstrates that the computer can "detect" when something has been inserted.

    It does this by not only making contact with the plug that you've inserted, but also by the plug causing the contacts inside the port to move sufficiently far enough to either make contact with / break contact with secondary contact points (depending on which way the circuit is wired - either for contact to be made or broken).

    Once the plug has been inserted into the port, it makes contact with the waiting contact points, and exerts enough pressure to move the contact into another position, which then tells the computer that a device has been plugged in. Audio ports are simple. They are contact, and pressure, and trigger based.

    If the plug is inserted, and makes contact with the contacts, it is possible for audio to be passed to the plug. But, the computer can deny it audio if it detects that one or both of the channels have not made proper contact (if the pressure exerted has not been sufficient to signal that the plug is present).

    With OS X, Apple only required that one pressure point be made, and signal would flow through both contacts. Windows drivers may require that both speaker contacts be pressed upon to send audio to both channels. Otherwise, it will only send audio to the channel which has properly been pressed far enough to register that it is there.

    Having an electronics background, designing circuits / printed circuit boards, and having previously built up and sold international businesses based on my electronic devices, I dove a little deeper into the problem than assuming it was a Windows or driver issue when my Mac Pro didn't produce audio on both channels (only when I was in Windows - Vista at that time).

    Naturally, I searched the Internet, and discovered numerous people experiencing the same problem (and only in Windows). A driver issue was unlikely, as the drivers were working, and properly installed. And, I had sound on one channel in Windows, and both channels in OS X.

    So, I tinkered a bit. I noticed that by exerting slight pressure one direction, that the audio would work in both channels on my speakers. But, obviously, it wasn't ideal to sit there and press on the speaker jack.

    It was also unlikely that my machine had damage, as this was affecting numerous people with Macs. A simple search, still reveals lots of hits.

    I also verified that it wasn't isolated to one particular plug. So, it wasn't the plug on my speakers (not a short).

    Having an understanding of how electronics work, I understood that Windows was not being told that both contacts were being made inside the audio port (again, OS X only cares to check if one contact is made and then assumes the other contact is made).

    So, I made the tip of my speakers audio plug slightly thicker by wrapping hair thin wire around it a few times, and then heating both the plug and the wire with a soldering iron, and applying solder to the tip that I'd wrapped with thin wire.

    Once it cooled, I inserted the plug into my Mac Pro's audio rear audio port, and I was greeted by audio playing through both speakers in Windows (without having to change anything in the driver settings). The driver automatically detected that the speakers were plugged into the audio output on the rear panel, and no longer required me to manually switch the driver to the rear panel. And, best of all, I had audio on both the left and right channels..

    Since Apple only cares if OS X works properly, it's of no consequence to Apple if Windows has issues. Even if the Windows issues are because Apple chose to take a shortcut.

    Either way, simply thickening the audio plug so that it would sufficiently place enough pressure to trigger both sensors in the Mac's audio ports does work.

    Perhaps the image below will help you with some understanding. While it is not the exact port used by Apple, it is similar enough in design to illustrate what I am describing above. The schematic drawings are illustrative of a circuit being established as a plug is inserted, and making contact with the contact points, and also pressing upon them to cause them to make / break contact with their secondary sensing circuitry.

    Hopefully the above description helps.

    907831150_463.jpg
     
  15. Dsold macrumors newbie

    Dsold

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    Location:
    Ukraine
    #15
    Thank you for a comprehensive response. Well, when there are people willing to help. :)

    Another question ... I understand correctly, the plug should be made thicker, but not longer?

    Sorry for my english.
     
  16. flyinmac thread starter macrumors 68030

    flyinmac

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Location:
    United States
    #16
    You're welcome. I'm happy to help.

    Yes, just needs to be thicker. I think in my case I might have made it perhaps a millimeter longer. But, I was primarily targeting the thickness of the tip.

    If you look at the plug, you will see dividing bands that go around the plug. Should be 2 dividing bands (going by memory). Divides the plug into 3 sections. One section is ground, one section is left, one section is right. I only thickened the tip. I didn't adjust the thickness anywhere else. So, focus on the area that is above the last dividing band (which makes the tip). You don't want to create a short between the 3 sections, so don't dribble solder or wrap wire in any way that crosses over the dividing bands. Doing so could cause one of 2 situations to happen. You could short one channel to ground (not the best thing to do), or you could cause your left and right channels to be bridged into a single "mono" channel (not really going to hurt anything, just wouldn't have left and right separation in your sound).

    I wouldn't get crazy with thickness. I think at most, I widened the thickest point of the tip by an additional 2 or 3 millimeters, and made the tip the same thickness all the way to the very tip. Start small, and work up. I also smoothed the finished product a little with sand paper, and wiped off any dust. Just for a smooth surface.

    Understand that if you're going the solder route I described, then you want to be sure you are heating both surfaces (the wire, and the plug and applying solder to the plug and letting it flow towards the tip of the soldering iron (a natural attraction to the heat). You don't want to have either surface cold, or the solder won't bond properly. The wire and the plug's tip need to both be hot.

    Also, consider like I did, that some day I might want different speakers. So, for that reason, I made the modification to the plug on an extension cable, instead of my speakers plug. That way I can change my speakers someday, and not have to redo my work.

    See the picture below for illustration of the separation bands I described:


    TRS-Audio-Plug-Connections-2.png
     
  17. Dsold macrumors newbie

    Dsold

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    Location:
    Ukraine
    #17
    Thank you. I'm pretty well imagine what to do. I'm also going to use the adapter rather than the cable from the acoustically.

    P.S. The installation of windows 10 x64 I went the other way in two stages:
    1) I booted from DVD disc with multi installer x86 and x64 versions of Windows 7 (manual assembly found on ...). Most likely this loader was build on the x86 version and with its definition no problems ("Select CD-ROM Boot Type" and other). I then choose to install the 64-bit version of Windows 7 Pro. I set it. It has been registered.
    2) From DVD Windows 10 Pro x64 start the update process. I passed all tests for compatibility and now I have a fully working Windows 10 x64 on my Mac Pro 1.1

    All hardware is detected without a problem, except for the sound and video card (ATI HD4870). For them, I downloaded the latest drivers from the Realtek site and ATI.

    Installation is made on the SSD drive, which is divided into two parts: for Windows 10 and Mac OS Yosemite.
     
  18. flyinmac thread starter macrumors 68030

    flyinmac

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Location:
    United States
    #18
    You're welcome. Glad to help.

    Sounds like a different way of getting Windows on the machine. I'm glad it worked for you. The 64-BIT version runs great on the Mac Pro.
     
  19. Dsold macrumors newbie

    Dsold

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    Location:
    Ukraine
  20. flyinmac thread starter macrumors 68030

    flyinmac

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Location:
    United States
    #20
    I'd try widening the plug's width a bit. You got the very tip of it. But it's the sides of the tip that push on the contacts.

    I put a few dots on your picture to show the area I'm talking about. In red.

    Don't make it so thick that you can't insert the plug. But make it thick enough that it is a tight fit.

    Remember that plugs do spin / rotate. So don't just put a glob on one side. Thicken / widen it evenly all the way around.

    Remember to stay away from the bands that separate the left and right channels.

    If that doesn't get things working, then I'd suspect there's a driver configuration issue.

    But give it a try widening the plug in the area I marked on your picture below.

    IMG_5170.JPG
     
  21. Dsold macrumors newbie

    Dsold

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    Location:
    Ukraine
    #21
    Thank you. Try to increase the thickness of the plug tip.
     
  22. flyinmac thread starter macrumors 68030

    flyinmac

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Location:
    United States
    #22
    You're welcome. Hopefully it'll work for you.
     
  23. penhaphi macrumors newbie

    penhaphi

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Location:
    London, UK.
    #23
    Hi flyinmac,

    "Using the below method, anyone should be able to install any version of Windows 32-BIT or 64-BIT on their Intel-Based Mac without any concern for whether the machine is EFI 32 or EFI 64, and regardless of Apple's willingness to support that version of Windows with Bootcamp...."

    I've been trying for days to get 64 bit Windows 10 on my Mac Pro 1.1 without luck as boot camp won't recognise the install media (have tried original windows USB, ISO USB and ISO DVD). I came across this topic and I thought Eureka! Took me awhile to find how to download an old version of VMware which I finally managed (v5.05). Unfortunately I'm not on OS X 10.7 only on 10.6.8 (but that's another story, I bought 10.7 Lion on the apple store but the old app store app on 10.6.8 doesn't seem to work and I can't download it!!!). The VMware is working fine I tried a virtual boot camp machine and it fired up my XP version fine.

    Anyway I followed your instructions and all seemed to go well. Every step worked. The only difference on my machine is that I don't have the firmware upgrade (you said that didn't matter, although Im curious as to how you did the firmware upgrade and what the benefits are?), and as stated above I am still on OS X 10.6.8 not 10.7 (does that matter?), and my boot camp partition has a working install of XP not vista. Also my windows partition is disk 0 partition 3 (/dev/disk0s3).

    When I first fired up my "bob" virtual machine I was expecting it to boot XP but I got this error:

    "Cannot open disk '~/Documents/Virtual Machines.localized/bob.vmwarevm/physical-hdd.vmdk'"

    I have checked and double checked everything you said and I am sure I did it right (I am quite computer-literate, I used to be a Unix C programmer), although I'm no windows or OSX expert.

    As you obviously know a lot about the internal workings of VMware I was hoping you could help me! I have attached the error, and the two config files. Would really appreciate if you could take a look!

    Thanks!

    Phil.
     

    Attached Files:

  24. darevk macrumors newbie

    darevk

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2016
    #24
    I need help too. Is this option possible in os x el capitan? I also have mac pro 1.1 upgraded to 2,1 and I have installed el capitan with pikes bootloader and now I'm trying to install win 10 64-bit.
    So whats' the problem? The problem is that i have vmware 8 installed and when I try to start up the machine I get an error:

    Value "FALSE" for variable "scsi0.present" is not a valid boolean value.

    Same error for "scsi0:0.present".

    Vmware is not supported by el capitan so I can't install it. Actually, I found some way to run that version but then i get this error:

    error module disk early power on failed

    Btw. I can see that my Bob.vmx is different than yours in vmware 8, but as I can see, it's even different in vmware 5. I wanted to say that some variables are not there, but I tried copying yours .vmx but it didn't help.
    Any info would be good, because i think i tried almost all ways to install those windows and i finally found your topic with this vmware idea and now it's not working on my mac..
    Maybe you know some other programs or something?

    Thanks anyway!
     
  25. flyinmac, Dec 29, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016

    flyinmac thread starter macrumors 68030

    flyinmac

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Location:
    United States
    #25
    It does sound like something is off somewhere in your settings.

    I'll take a look at what you have a little closer in a few days. Probably after January 2nd. My time is really tight right now.

    If I don't repost by the 3rd or 4th, reply again and it'll flag for me.

    Crazy holiday schedules.

    Edit: also thinking perhaps I could send you a copy of my virtual machine file for modification once I get a chance to look at what you have going.


    --- Post Merged, Dec 29, 2016 ---
    Using a physical disk as a location is kind of hacking the way VMware is intended to work.

    As I understood it when I performed it on my system, others had difficulty using the same techniques on newer versions of VMware. So that is why I stuck with the version I used.

    Newer versions of VMware do work in El Capitan. But again, the prior problem with changes in newer VMware versions is there.

    The technique would need to be modified to work with newer VMware versions.

    Basically, what we are doing is changing the settings to prevent VMware from writing to a file (virtual hard drive) and causing it to write / read to / from a physical partition instead. And that might be accomplished differently in newer versions of VMware.

    As for working with VMware 5.x, you might need to install an older version of OS X on a separate drive temporarily, until you have everything up and running.

    Other virtual machines could theoretically accomplish the same tasks. But I didn't research the method or possibility with other virtual machine software. I used what I had and documented as I went.

    If you wanted to try with a different virtual machine, you need to find out how to cause that virtual machine to read / write a physical hard drive partition.
     

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