Well then let's do it. 1hp shouldn't matter to your uber wimpy bemmer.
That's it run and hide, close your eyes, cover your ears and the truth will go away .
Sorry the real world is still here and moving on without you...
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2007 Ford Fusion vs 2007 Chev Impala.
- Thread starter waloshin
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Well then let's do it. 1hp shouldn't matter to your uber wimpy bemmer.
That's it run and hide, close your eyes, cover your ears and the truth will go away .
Sorry the real world is still here and moving on without you...
You've never taken a class on research methods and statistical analysis, I'm guessing?
There is most definitely a scientific method behind their survey data, and 1.2 million surveyed is a fairly large sample size for most surveys like this.
For comparison, many of the political surveys you see the media quoting all the time have like 500-1000 data points.
The first and second generation Ford Fusion was known as one of the most reliable cars on the road. I am not sure about the new one, but I know the Mazda based CD3 Fusions were excellent cars for reliability.
I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but using consumer reports is like getting your movie reviews from Richard Roeper. US News is like using Rotten Tomatoes. US News does an analysis of multiple reviews by experts. Consumer reliability ratings are based on 1.2 million owners.
Second, Consumer Reports treats cars like appliances (which is true to some consumers). With appliances, most people care about "how long am I going to keep it?". This works for some, but if you can battle back and forth for the better portion of an afternoon about cars, it's time you graduated to a better, more sophisticated meter than consumer reports.
American cars are great. I don't drive one, but that's my preference. Get the Ford, OP.
Sincerely,
A CHEMICAL ENGINEER
And if you think your go-carts have anything on my beamer, you're delusional. I wipe my ass with mustangs.
So can my 610whp Corvette Grand Sport use your Beamer to wipe its ass? Or maybe my 570whp Marauder can have a go? Or maybe my 911 can have a go?
You sound like the m3 and m6 drivers at mid ohio who call corvettes and vipers " inferior barnyard engineering " then make nothing but excuses when they eat my tail lights
and tell me " we'll it's not going around the track! It's how you go around ", and they mean slower
Big words for someone who can't spell Bimmer. If he can smoke a mustang, he's probably in an M3 or M5, both are bimmers.
Unless you're talking about motorcycles, then why are you here?
Big words for someone who can't spell Bimmer. Unless you're talking about motorcycles, then why are you here?
Fact is the discussion is pretty stupid. BMW's, Mustang, etc being discussed are good vehicles. This pissing contest is completely insulting to anyone who consider themselves a car person/enthusiast. I may prefer other vehicles to the BMW( ATS), Mustang( Camaro), etc, but I won't go insult them or their owners. I may have fun in the name of the rivalry between the Mustang and Camaro, but I won't go so low to not give them credit at all.
I like the Camaro's styling over the 'Stangs, the 1LE is a good track day vehicle while good on the street as well, and while the GT500 has an incredible engine, the ZL1 has the better chassis and able to put its 580 HP down very well. Not to the mention the Z/28 will be an incredible track vehicle( stated to be 3 seconds faster around a track than the ZL1). Despite me deeming the Camaro to be the better vehicle in my tastes, doesn't mean the Mustang is in any way a bad vehicle.
Sorry to dig this off page 1 but I had to do a little research when I had the time.
Guess whose engine is used in both versions of that jointly-designed vehicle? It's the Subaru flat-4. The Toyota version is actually a Scion, the Scion page says it's a 200 HP flat boxer engine. The only company making one of those, besides MAYBE Porche is Subaru. I'd bet that if Toyota didn't have faith in that Subaru engine they would have pushed for either their engine in both versions or a design that would accomodate the engine of their choice. The transmission is likely the same in both versions as well.
I can't say which company had more say in the rest of the design as there are really no design cues borrowed from either line.
The engine power (or lack thereof) is the greatest point of criticism in the Subaru BRZ and the Scion FR-S (Toyota 86)
It's more accurate to say it's a Toyota with a Scion badge in the US. It's the Toyota 86 everywhere else.
Meanwhile, the most praised things about the car is it's rear wheel drive platform (Subaru almost ruined this by rejecting it), the design, and the handling. I'll give the boxer part of the handling and balance, but it is severely underpowered.
It's unclear what Subaru brought to the table other than the engine. Early on in the Toyota 86 project, Subaru wanted nothing to do with the car and only provide the power plant. We can confirm that the Scion FR-S and the Subaru BRZ are the same car, however Subaru gets more options standard (huge mistake making this car a Scion).
My point stands, Toyota brought out the best in Subaru for the Toyota 86 project.
Post your source, or were you at the table for the design meetings?
200 HP in a 2700-LB vehicle is underpowered? Not EVERYTHING is about the pure horsepower number. Does Toyota (or Subaru) have a more worthy engine? Also, starting "low" allows them to move to a more powerful engine for an upgraded vehicle (STi maybe?). That 2.0 is the same base as the turbo motor in the Forester XT. Is 250 HP in a 2700-LB vehicle enough?
Some people just can't be satisfied.
R&T's first impression didn't complain about the power. http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/first-drives/driven-2013-subaru-brz
I don't have time right now to look for more.
200 HP in a 2700-LB vehicle is underpowered? Not EVERYTHING is about the pure horsepower number. Does Toyota (or Subaru) have a more worthy engine? Also, starting "low" allows them to move to a more powerful engine for an upgraded vehicle (STi maybe?). That 2.0 is the same base as the turbo motor in the Forester XT. Is 250 HP in a 2700-LB vehicle enough?
Some people just can't be satisfied.
R&T's first impression didn't complain about the power. http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/first-drives/driven-2013-subaru-brz
I don't have time right now to look for more.
Because it wasn't supposed to be spelled that way, who even says it like that? Maybe you pronounce it weird down there. I meant to spell beamer because that's how it's pronounced here.
So can my 610whp Corvette Grand Sport use your Beamer to wipe its ass? Or maybe my 570whp Marauder can have a go? Or maybe my 911 can have a go?
You sound like the m3 and m6 drivers at mid ohio who call corvettes and vipers " inferior barnyard engineering " then make nothing but excuses when they eat my tail lights
Wow, I didn't realize that cars are meant to be driven on racetracks on a daily basis. I really honestly couldn't care less about speed, despite the fact my car has plenty of it. American cars are engineered in an inferior fashion to german ones. I don't get how you can even argue against that. I don't go on racetracks, and I'm not talking about race cars. I have zero interest in that to be perfectly honest. When did the topic switch from every day cars to the racetrack? But I guess that's all you can do when you drive garbage cars, "Well...bbbbbbut....take it to the racetrack and see who wins". I don't need a racetrack to tell me whose car is superior. You don't seem to understand that. I care about quality and engineering, apparently you only care about horsepower. Unfortunately for you horsepower is irrelevant when comparing every day cars.
You are one of the people that help ruin the experience of other BMW enthusiasts and help the perception that BMW drivers are jerks, douches, etc.
Hmmm, all three cars listed are every day cars, I use them all the time.
And snice when is a 911 an American car? I love my 911 Turbo. If you really wanted engineering perfection from a German car, why would you lease a mid range BMW when you could have a Porsche 911 turbo? Don't settle for less.
Oh god, I keep my Porsche in the same garage as a Merecdes, Lexus and 3 American cars, OH THE HUMAINTY
All because I hold the opinion that Americans make crap cars. Amazing. If that makes me a douche, so be it. Don't really care.
Underpowered? Have you even driven one? Horsepower isn't everything. The BRZ is 1000+ pounds lighter than most of these other sports cars being discussed (Mustang, Camaro). It doesn't need as much horsepower to be quick. That 2.0L boxer 4 has drawn rave reviews and won awards as one of the best engines of 2012.
That 2.0L boxer 4 is going to be the base engine for the new WRX redesign that's due out next year. Rumor has it that it will also have a brand new electric turbo that will put out between 275-295HP. They're finally splitting the WRX off from the Impreza to form it's own sports car line and it seems like it's going to be somewhat of a cross between the current WRX and the BRZ. Really looking forward to that.
No. That's fine if you think American cars are not up to your standards. The issue is your attitude towards people. Your calling the cars others here drive garbage. How do you expect people to respond when you call their vehicles garbage?
Plus, it doesn't sound like you are informed. You compared a Jeep to BMW....
Look, it's a great engine. Subaru makes a great boxer. We all know that. So then why is this car the only one of its caliber in their lineup? Because Toyota dumped the all wheel drive and made an overall better design. It took a partnership with Toyota to make the best Subaru.
If the shoe fits.
Besides, I only called his car garbage after this stupid quote...
He deserved what his car was called.
Spoken like someone who's never driven a Subaru on anything other than asphalt. Give me a couple inches of snow on the roads and my Legacy (not even the GT model) will wipe the floor with 90% of the cars discussed in this thread.
Take a WRX out for a drive in the mountains in the winter and I guarantee your opinion will change. Subaru's AWD rocks.
I would not call the BRZ the best Subaru. It is a roadster that is it. For the SAME money, you can get a 4 door, AWD, turbo'd WRX.
The BRZ is such a nitch car and of little practicality.
After owning and driving a multitude of cars, I can confidently say as things stand now, I will only ever consider Subarus. Where my cars used to get stuck, I no longer do. Such a comfort and peace of mind
Deserved it? really?
FWIW, I would never touch a beamer. Overpriced for what you get in my opinion. Expensive to run, reliability is not up to par with other manufacturers and repairs are not very economical.
If you have the means, great. But for practical purposes, I just don't see how a BMW can be on a recommended list. To me, they are they Range Rovers of cars, expensive but not reliable
Meh. Won't have to. It's leased.
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That's fine, see, I don't get offended like many others on here do when you talk about my car.