2007 Harpertown Stoakley-Seaburg Motherboard With New Graphics Cards 8-Core Mac Pro

[Macinposh]

Buy one before there's a chance of losing your funds though.

Indeed.

But I would give up and order around beginning of november.

If no update during the leopard release, then there is a bad chance that the update will come in macworld. Waiting for that is wasting time. And your life.


I personally wouldnt be so bitched up about buying now a 3ghz octo and apple releasing a harpertown the next day. The octo is a good machine anyway,and the harpers wont be that much faster. Maybe 10-20%?

BUT I would be pissed about apple releasing new displays day after buying a ACD!
The current ACDs are so much behind its competitors at the moment it hurts. And cost 30-100% more...
So,I´d be (actually I am) tempted to wait for a buying decision after the update of them.

 

[darthraige]

But I would give up and order around beginning of november.

If no update during the leopard release, then there is a bad chance that the update will come in macworld.

Yea, same here. I really think it will be coming with or around Leopard. Christ, even the iMac has a bigger Hard Drive in it than the MacPro. Apple can't wait til January.

 

[krunk]

Yea, same here. I really think it will be coming with or around Leopard. Christ, even the iMac has a bigger Hard Drive in it than the MacPro. Apple can't wait til January.

It would be interesting to go through this thread and others over the last year and gather al the statements similar to this.

What seems apparent to me is that when it comes to apple's desktops, there's no rational way to predict when they'll update it.

It's obvious Apple just doesn't care about their desktops being competitive or current. It's sad. I just hope they don't neglect it so long that they push me back to pc's. The thought makes me depressed.

 

[darthraige]

It would be interesting to go through this thread and others over the last year and gather al the statements similar to this.

Yea most of everything I've been posting is all repetitive. haha. That's mostly due to the newbies that keep popping in and asking the same questions and stuff. That and I am trying to build-up posts for my Avatar. haha.

 

[Simplesimon101]

I personally wouldnt be so bitched up about buying now a 3ghz octo and apple releasing a harpertown the next day. The octo is a good machine anyway,and the harpers wont be that much faster. Maybe 10-20%?

yer i know it'll still be a killer machine. actually at the moment they'd get me the two dual 2.66 machine... i was thinking the next machine at the same price may be an octo? and that would be a bit of a leap?

That's mostly due to the newbies that keep popping in and asking the same questions and stuff. That and I am trying to build-up posts for my Avatar. haha.

so i guess us newbs are providing some sort of service then ... plus i'd like to think my question had a tiny variation to the norm (as it involved judgement rather than just prediction?)

thanks anyway for your answers

 

[bigbossbmb]

What seems apparent to me is that when it comes to apple's desktops, there's no rational way to predict when they'll update it.

Sure there is... Whenever Intel releases new chips. MBP, iMacs, and MPs all get refreshed when the chips they use get upgraded. So far there hasn't been anything to completely replace the chips in the Mac Pro now. Those come next month.

 

[Multimedia]

I Would Give Apple Until Mid November To Announce New Mac Pros

But I would give up and order around beginning of november.

If no update during the leopard release, then there is a bad chance that the update will come in macworld. Waiting for that is wasting time. And your life.

I personally wouldnt be so bitched up about buying now a 3ghz octo and apple releasing a harpertown the next day. The octo is a good machine anyway,and the harpers wont be that much faster. Maybe 10-20%?

BUT I would be pissed about apple releasing new displays day after buying a ACD!
The current ACDs are so much behind its competitors at the moment it hurts. And cost 30-100% more...
So,I´d be (actually I am) tempted to wait for a buying decision after the update of them.

I think they will be much faster than 10-20% more. Let's not forget they will also have completely different video card choices which will add a lot to their efficacy compared to the current offering. And it's not all about new speed either. It's also more efficient use of the cores in multi-tasking and for applications that can use 4 to 8 cores. Current model does weird unnecessary cache flushing that won't happen with the next model.

And I think they could come as late as MID November rather than the beginning. I don't see Apple wanting to confuse the market with too many new product announcements at once. Since Harpertown doesn't reach the retail channel until November 12, it's not unreasonable to wait another month from now before giving up on new Mac Pros this year.

 

[Eidorian]

Multimedia you seem to be the only user that I know of that is effectively crunching video constantly.

Do you know of anyone else here on MacRumors?

I'm a gamer, amateur video editor, and tinkerer. I'm torn between a Mac Pro or just getting a MacBook Santa Rosa and just building my own Phenom/Core 2 Quad machine to sate the urge to play with hardware.

 

[Jade Cambell]

I think they will be much faster than 10-20% more. Let's not forget they will also have completely different video card choices which will add a lot to their efficacy compared to the current offering. And it's not all about new speed either. It's also more efficient use of the cores in multi-tasking and for applications that can use 4 to 8 cores. Current model does weird unnecessary cache flushing that won't happen with the next model.

And I think they could come as late as MID November rather than the beginning. I don't see Apple wanting to confuse the market with too many new product announcements at once. Since Harpertown doesn't reach the retail channel until November 12, it's not unreasonable to wait another month from now before giving up on new Mac Pros this year.

You don't think there's a chance that Apple will release new Mac Pro's at MWSF?

 

[Multimedia]

Apple's Power Gap Is Like The Grand Canyon

Multimedia you seem to be the only user that I know of that is effectively crunching video constantly.

Do you know of anyone else here on MacRumors?

I'm a gamer, amateur video editor, and tinkerer. I'm torn between a Mac Pro or just getting a MacBook Santa Rosa and just building my own Phenom/Core 2 Quad machine to sate the urge to play with hardware.

No I don't. I know there are others that do it a little bit. But it takes so long to do on anything but a Mac Pro that I would imagine many are discouraged from doing it as much as I do.

The difference between the 2.8GHz iMac and the Mac Pro is so vast when it comes to using Toast and Handbrake that I think Apple is crazy not to fill that void where you want to be for gaming. So I can relate. I'm torn between the 45nm SR MB and the 45nm 2.8GHz SR MBP - both expectations not out yet. Plus I think in a year we'll see a quad MBP.

So times are certainly changing slowly but surely lately. Hope we love Leopard on these top models. I'm having trouble thinking about anything besides what's in the pipeline.

 

[Multimedia]

I Think Mid-November Is More Likely Than Mid-January

You don't think there's a chance that Apple will release new Mac Pro's at MWSF?

Oh yes there's definitely a chance we'll have to wait 'til then. But I think it's a smaller chance than for them to ship in November. Remember Apple is on Intel's timetable not their own. And the next MP is way way way way way way way overdue. I think the next MP is also Leopard dependent due to driver issues. So Leopard unlocks the gate while Intel begins delivering the motherboards and processors to Apple - probably already started. So I think if we don't see MP in November, it's probably Intel's fault that Apple will have to wait until Mid-January. But I will be surprised if that happens.

 

[Jade Cambell]

Oh yes there's definitely a chance we'll have to wait 'til then. But I think it's a smaller chance than for them to ship in November. Remember Apple is on Intel's timetable not their own. And the next MP is way way way way way way way overdue. I think the next MP is also Leopard dependent due to driver issues. So Leopard unlocks the gate while Intel begins delivering the motherboards and processors to Apple - probably already started. So I think if we don't see MP in November, it's probably Intel's fault that Apple will have to wait until Mid-January. But I will be surprised if that happens.

Well, in my situation, if they release them in mid-november, then I don't get to upgrade for at least a couple years. I've got a Quad 3.0Ghz Mac Pro and 23" ACD which i'd like to sell shortly before new ones are released. If they aren't released by January 1st, i'm selling. But if they're released before then, it'll be too late for me to sell my system at it's current worth, and i'm not willing to risk selling it in november and then ending up going without a system for two months.

 

[Multimedia]

I Wouldn't Worry About Selling What You Have For Almost A New One After They Are Out

Well, in my situation, if they release them in mid-november, then I don't get to upgrade for at least a couple years. I've got a Quad 3.0Ghz Mac Pro and 23" ACD which i'd like to sell shortly before new ones are released. If they aren't released by January 1st, i'm selling. But if they're released before then, it'll be too late for me to sell my system at it's current worth, and i'm not willing to risk selling it in november and then ending up going without a system for two months.

You'd be surprised how many people don't pay attention to new releases and are willing to pay almost as much as for an empty new one for the one you have loaded.

I sold a dual 2.5GHz G5 for $2500 after the Quad G5s had already gone refurb for $2700 in February 2006 - way after their October 2005 original release. You just have to be creative about how and where you sell what you have.

Point is there is a brief window of ignorant time out there among your buyer base when you can still get what you want for what you have even though new models are for sale. The extra RAM and HDs make it attractive as well as your adding Leopard and iLife '08 to the mix.

 

[lali]

The difference between the 2.8GHz iMac and the Mac Pro is so vast when it comes to using Toast and Handbrake

Multimedia,

Could you give examples of what you mean? I am on Windows and thinking of switching to Mac, and I do a fair amount of conversion of my movies on DVD to AppleTV and iPod Touch formats, and I find it to be a very, very slow process (2.13Ghz Dual Core).

Is it because you are able to do multiple encodes on a Mac Pro at the same time? I would really like to have some real-world examples.

Thanks for your time!

François

 

[jasonvp]

Current model does weird unnecessary cache flushing that won't happen with the next model.

Slight correction on that point. The "cache flushing" you're referring to is due to the operating system, not the hardware. Tiger isn't very good with a multi-core system because it takes active threads and bounces them around between cores. Any time a thread is moved, any memory cache built up for it is flushed.

Supposedly, Leopard won't do that. It'll keep threads "stuck" to cores.

The point being, regardless of what hardware you have, if you run Tiger on it, you're going to have the same problem.

jas

 

[Pressure]

Multimedia,

Could you give examples of what you mean? I am on Windows and thinking of switching to Mac, and I do a fair amount of conversion of my movies on DVD to AppleTV and iPod Touch formats, and I find it to be a very, very slow process (2.13Ghz Dual Core).

Is it because you are able to do multiple encodes on a Mac Pro at the same time? I would really like to have some real-world examples.

Thanks for your time!

François

It's generally because encoding software is multi-threaded, so it can use all 4 or 8-cores to encode/decode the data.

 

[Eidorian]

It's generally because encoding software is multi-threaded, so it can use all 4 or 8-cores to encode/decode the data.

With more cores he can run more then one instance of on an application as well.

Parallelism can only go so far before you have to bring up an entire new instance of an application . I know he runs at least two instances of Toast to maximize his processor usage.

 

[lali]

Examples of superior encoding performance of MacPro

Hi,

I appreciate the responses. I am wondering about real-world examples of the added performance of a Mac Pro (4GB/2xdual-core) versus an iMac (2.8 4GB/dual core).

For example:
- I decrypt my retail dvd collection.
-Then I use dvdshrink to remove the trailers/warnings etc and choose one language.
-Then I use handbrake to convert the vob's to an mp4 file. I create one AppleTV file
-Then I create an iPod Touch file.

Since converting the files with handbrake is what takes the most amount of time, there will likely always be other things running (decrypting, etc...)

I wonder how fast it takes for a MacPro to convert a DVD via handbrake, versus the fastest iMac?

Sincerely

François

 

[Multimedia]

EyeTV HD To iPod/AppleTV mp4 Workflow

I am wondering about real-world examples of the added performance of a Mac Pro (4GB/2xdual-core) versus an iMac (2.8 4GB/dual core).

For example:
- I decrypt my retail dvd collection.
-Then I use dvdshrink to remove the trailers/warnings etc and choose one language.
-Then I use handbrake to convert the vob's to an mp4 file. I create one AppleTV file
-Then I create an iPod Touch file.

Since converting the files with handbrake is what takes the most amount of time, there will likely always be other things running (decrypting, etc...)

I wonder how fast it takes for a MacPro to convert a DVD via handbrake, versus the fastest iMac?

I'm dealing with off air ATSC HD broadcast recordings done with EyeTV. My workflow goes like this:

1. Use Epguides.com to add Season-Episode-Year codes to the episode names.
2. Edit out commercials.
3. Place in Toast 8 with compression set on minimum - max quality. Toast 8 can use up to 4 cores. Encode & Burn DVD Image (command D).
4. Open Image in the all NEW Handbrake 0.9.1. You only need to make ONE mp4 file that will play on both all iPods and AppleTV. The key is to use maximum dimensions allowed so they interpolate up well to an HD screen as well as down to the iPods.

Picture Settings... and CROP at:
624 x 352 for HD
544 x 400 for SD - Uncheck Keep Aspect Ratio
Fast Deinterlace
1Kbps bit rate
H.264 iPod @ 29.97 fps NOT same as source which doesn't work.

I target one hour prime time (net around 42±1 min) at 350MB (half a CD) which is a little over 1Kbps. Make sure you always use the ENTER key when you put a value in those Target and bit rate boxes. Otherwise they won't take - bug in HB.

I target movies at 700MB which may be well under 1Kbps. On any iPod that will look fine. On AppleTV it will look acceptable but it depends on the movie if that is acceptable for YOU.

I NEVER rip with Handbrake from a DVD - only images I make with Toast - that would included from DVDs before using Toast first. File —>Save As Disc Image... (command+D)

Handbrake uses all 4 cores and I'm told can use all 8 cores of that kind of MP.

Slight correction on that point. The "cache flushing" you're referring to is due to the operating system, not the hardware. Tiger isn't very good with a multi-core system because it takes active threads and bounces them around between cores. Any time a thread is moved, any memory cache built up for it is flushed.

Supposedly, Leopard won't do that. It'll keep threads "stuck" to cores.

The point being, regardless of what hardware you have, if you run Tiger on it, you're going to have the same problem.

Thanks for that note about Leopard fixing the flush problem with existing 8 core Mac Pros Jason. Good news.

 

[Jade Cambell]

You'd be surprised how many people don't pay attention to new releases and are willing to pay almost as much as for an empty new one for the one you have loaded.

I sold a dual 2.5GHz G5 for $2500 after the Quad G5s had already gone refurb for $2700. You just have to be creative about how and where you sell what you have.

Point is there is a brief window of ignorant time out there among your buyer base when you can still get what you want for what you have even though new models are for sale. The extra RAM and HDs make it attractive as well as your adding Leopard and iLife '08 to the mix.

Good point. If I list it on ebay the second Steve announces the new ones, I should be okay. I will be buying a single user version of Leopard, and iLife 08, once leopard comes out. And i'll be able to sell those with the machine.

 

[Eidorian]

Picture Settings... and CROP at:
624 x 352 for HD
544 x 400 for SD - Uncheck Keep Aspect Ratio
Fast Deinterlace
1Kbps bit rate
H.264 iPod @ 29.97 fps NOT same as source which doesn't work.

I target one hour prime time (net around 42±1 min) at 350MB (half a CD) which is a little over 1Kbps. Make sure you always use the ENTER key when you put a value in those Target and bit rate boxes. Otherwise they won't take - bug in HB.

You mean 1000 Kbps.

It's not the first time I've seen you make that mistake. My personal preference is around 170 MB or about four 20-22 minute shows per CD.

 

[Multimedia]

1K = 1000k

You mean 1000 Kbps.

It's not the first time I've seen you make that mistake. My personal preference is around 170 MB or about four 20-22 minute shows per CD.

NO. I mean 1Kbps not 1000 Kbps which is 1,000,000 kbps. I never meant one million kbps like you write above.

1000k (lower case k) = 1K (Capital K). It was never a mistake. It was your mis-reading my capital K as a lower case k.

I use 175 MB target for half hour shows that net 21±1 minute. So same rate.

 

[Eidorian]

NO. I mean 1Kbps not 1000 Kbps which would be 1,000,000 kbps.

1K (Capital K) = 1000k (lower case k). It was never a mistake. It was your mis-reading my capital K as a lower case k.

I use 175 MB target for half hour shows that net 21±1 minute. So same rate.

I usually see that represented as 1 Mbps but to each their own.

I never realized that K/k weren't interchangeable.

 

[Multimedia]

Maybe You're Right

I usually see that represented as 1 Mbps but to each their own.

I never realized that K/k weren't interchangeable.

Maybe you're right. I was trying to keep it in the "k" venacular due to Handbrake's Average bitrate (kbps) dialog box. But I see your point.

 

[Eidorian]

Maybe you're right. I was trying to keep it in the "k" venacular due to Hadnbrake's Average bitrate (kbps) dialog box. But I see your point.

I haven't found a difference between 'K' and 'k' as the definition of Kilo-.

They seem to be interchangeable.

http://www.bipm.org/en/si/prefixes.html

An upper case 'k' doesn't even show up.