2007 Harpertown Stoakley-Seaburg Motherboard With New Graphics Cards 8-Core Mac Pro

[suneohair]

And that's just an assumption. Nobody knows for sure that apple is sitting on a big pile of the new chips, do we? While we've had rumors for weeks, Intel just announced their chips four days ago and said that many won't be shipping for 45 days.

Sure, the laptops have had more upgrades, but hasn't intel released more mobile chips in the same timeframe? Has there been a big xeon update that apple didn't take advantage of?

While you're not happy with the update cycle, isn't that more of an issue with Intel since they've taken a fairly long time to update their top end chips? Is there another chip apple could have updated to months ago that would have been an improvement? What PC's are shipping now that have better hardware than the current mac pros?

There are a few of the chips not shipping for 45 days. A large chunk of them are shipping and I don't recall seeing any on the list that stated they were ONLY shipping in 45 days. Many of them said Now-45 days.

Intel has indeed had a large update, the Clovertown line, which was a full quad core line at the same price points of the Woodcrest line. Apple decided to only use the 3.0ghz Clovertown. Skipping on the rest of the set.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117089
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117110

In 1000 sets they are roughly the same. With that in mind there is no reason for Apple to have skipped on those chips. They did, and it is what it is. Apple could have dumped an all Clovertown line months ago, I would have bought them as well.

I don't see this as an Intel issue. There is no reason the Mac Pro shouldn't have been updated with at least parts that reflect the current market value relative to its release. Like bigger HD, more RAM, new video etc. Or, a price drop would have sufficed as well.

Now, would Clovertown have been significant. Well, in the sense that we would have all octo machines, yes. In terms of real tech, no. But not quite significant updates are riddled through the entire product line since the switch to Intel. Most of the updates to every other machine hasn't been significant yet they get updated. So is significance really the reason? Maybe. Maybe Apple is being nice and giving us a big update. Maybe they skipped on Clovertown because Harpertown would be right around the corner, who knows.

What PC's are shipping with better specs? Hmm, you can get a quad core machine pretty cheap, with faster lower latecy memory, and better graphics. You can easily build a better machine for much less than a Mac Pro and it has been demonstrated here a number of times. Now, we can throw in "It doesn't run OS X," but who cares? We are looking at hardware and with OSX86 out there and working hard that is becoming much less of a problem.

 

[milo]

There are a few of the chips not shipping for 45 days. A large chunk of them are shipping and I don't recall seeing any on the list that stated they were ONLY shipping in 45 days. Many of them said Now-45 days.

So name one that is shipping today. Show me a link where I can buy a PC with one of the new chips today.

Intel has indeed had a large update, the Clovertown line, which was a full quad core line at the same price points of the Woodcrest line. Apple decided to only use the 3.0ghz Clovertown. Skipping on the rest of the set.

Those are slower than the fastest mac pro...so I guess your complaint is specifically about the lower mac pro models?

I don't see this as an Intel issue. There is no reason the Mac Pro shouldn't have been updated with at least parts that reflect the current market value relative to its release. Like bigger HD, more RAM, new video etc. Or, a price drop would have sufficed as well.

I agree that apple does a lousy job with ram and hard drives, that's definitely one place where they could have kept up better. But I suspect even if they updated these, people would still be bitching that it was not a real upgrade.

What PC's are shipping with better specs? Hmm, you can get a quad core machine pretty cheap, with faster lower latecy memory, and better graphics. You can easily build a better machine for much less than a Mac Pro and it has been demonstrated here a number of times. Now, we can throw in "It doesn't run OS X," but who cares? We are looking at hardware and with OSX86 out there and working hard that is becoming much less of a problem.

Most of that is talking about a *cheaper* machine, not a better one. Can you get a machine with a faster intel CPU than the current 8 core mac pro?

It would be nice if apple would drop prices when upgrading the CPU is not an option, but they don't do that. Probably because it would require raising the price again later when new chips came out, and there would be kicking and screaming about it.

 

[suneohair]

So name one that is shipping today. Show me a link where I can buy a PC with one of the new chips today.

Come on. You know I don't know. I am going based on what Intel is saying. Do you really think I am going to be able to find these chips? I understand what you are getting at, but Intel is shipping these chips. To who? I don't have a clue. If we really go based on what you are implying the chips will ship in 45 days and the machines will magically appear, which we know is ridiculous.

Those are slower than the fastest mac pro...so I guess your complaint is specifically about the lower mac pro models?

Those are slower, my point was to show that there are chips which offer more than the current chips at the same price. The high end model is overpriced I wouldn't even think about buying it. Especially now that Harpertown is here and at 2.83Ghz, more cache, etc etc, it would best that 3.0Ghz Clovertown all day.

I agree that apple does a lousy job with ram and hard drives, that's definitely one place where they could have kept up better. But I suspect even if they updated these, people would still be bitching that it was not a real upgrade.

Whats your point? People always complain. However, most of us have realistic expectations when it comes to upgrades for these things.

Most of that is talking about a *cheaper* machine, not a better one. Can you get a machine with a faster intel CPU than the current 8 core mac pro?

Who cares about the 8 core Mac Pro? It is outdated and overpriced. I am looking at the base model. And you can build a quad core box cheaper and it would be faster. End of story. The only thing faster than the current 8 core Mac Pro would be a Mac Pro (or another company's) Harpertown based box. You know that, and I know that. And, you would have to be a fool to buy an 8-core Mac Pro today considering that when the Mac Pro is updated, the base model will best it.

Further, you are clearly implying that somehow cheaper is not better. Which is hardly the case.

It would be nice if apple would drop prices when upgrading the CPU is not an option, but they don't do that. Probably because it would require raising the price again later when new chips came out, and there would be kicking and screaming about it.

They don't do that. Which is understandable. However, they need to update if they plan on not doing that. Otherwise there will be people waiting, just like everyone else on this damn forum waits for the next thing.

 

[Gloor]

Here is a link to the availability:

http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/45nm/45nm_spec&pricing.pdf

Anyway, big companies get the processors before the launch date so they can start selling those machines soon after the announcement.

As was mentioned before, Apple decided not to put all clovertown line when Intel slashed the prices so it would make sense if they were going to release harpertown this week. If they decided to wait till macworld then this was an act of a greedy company. I doubt that ppl would tolerate it if it was a windows platform. There is no way Apple would have such a big fan base if it wasn't for the OS.

 

[AidenShaw]

what's the Intel definition of now?

Anyway, big companies get the processors before the launch date so they can start selling those machines soon after the announcement.

I wonder what the Intel definition of "now" is?

If it means that:

- Intel will take your orders today
- the parts will ship within 5-10 business days
- the shipping will take 3-5 business days
- once you get the parts, you can start to install and QA the systems
- once the systems are QA'd, they can be boxed and shipped to the channel
- once the channel has the boxes, they can fulfill customer orders

That more or less lines up with the times quoted by HP and Lenovo and Alienware....

Since Intel only announced that the 45nm fab was online about 3 weeks ago, it could take a while for "high volume" to occur....

http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20071025corp.htm

 

[Gloor]

I wonder what the Intel definition of "now" is?

If it means that:

- Intel will take your orders today
- the parts will ship within 5-10 business days
- the shipping will take 3-5 business days
- once you get the parts, you can start to install and QA the systems
- once the systems are QA'd, they can be boxed and shipped to the channel
- once the channel has the boxes, they can fulfill customer orders

That more or less lines up with the times quoted by HP and Lenovo and Alienware....

Since Intel only announced that the 45nm fab was online about 3 weeks ago, it could take a while for "high volume" to occur....

http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20071025corp.htm

Do you really think they would start QA when it's released? Don't you think they would have a sample for at least few weeks ahead of the launch?

 

[milo]

Come on. You know I don't know. I am going based on what Intel is saying. Do you really think I am going to be able to find these chips? I understand what you are getting at, but Intel is shipping these chips. To who? I don't have a clue. If we really go based on what you are implying the chips will ship in 45 days and the machines will magically appear, which we know is ridiculous.

You misunderstand my point. If intel says they're not all shipping right now, and if nobody has been able to find a PC company shipping them now, it's a bit stupid to complain that apple isn't shipping them right now. And even if they are shipping some now, that doesn't necessarily mean they're shipping them in enough quantity for a company like apple to make a product announcement.

Whats your point? People always complain. However, most of us have realistic expectations when it comes to upgrades for these things.

My point is that based on what people post on boards like this, I don't think most people have realistic expectations.

Who cares about the 8 core Mac Pro? It is outdated and overpriced. I am looking at the base model. And you can build a quad core box cheaper and it would be faster. End of story. The only thing faster than the current 8 core Mac Pro would be a Mac Pro (or another company's) Harpertown based box. You know that, and I know that. And, you would have to be a fool to buy an 8-core Mac Pro today considering that when the Mac Pro is updated, the base model will best it.

Further, you are clearly implying that somehow cheaper is not better. Which is hardly the case.

You answered your own question. People care about the eight core because as you say, it's the fastest machine you can buy right now. And while I agree that it's foolish to buy anything just before an upgrade, it's not "outdated" until something better actually ships. Really, you're going to call the best machine available "outdated"?

Of course cheaper is better, I'm just saying that "MP should be upgraded" and "MP should have a price drop" are two different things.

Here is a link to the availability:

http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/45nm/45nm_spec&pricing.pdf

Anyway, big companies get the processors before the launch date so they can start selling those machines soon after the announcement.

So what big PC company is shipping these machines soon after the announcement? I have yet to see one.

As was mentioned before, Apple decided not to put all clovertown line when Intel slashed the prices so it would make sense if they were going to release harpertown this week. If they decided to wait till macworld then this was an act of a greedy company. I doubt that ppl would tolerate it if it was a windows platform. There is no way Apple would have such a big fan base if it wasn't for the OS.

At this point it looks like most of the windows boxes aren't going to have these until mid to late december (darn close to macworld). And people ARE tolerating it, since that's when the chips ship. At this point, apple still has a window of a few weeks in which they can ship one of these machines ahead of or at the same time as the first PCs.

 

[AidenShaw]

Do you really think they would start QA when it's released? Don't you think they would have a sample for at least few weeks ahead of the launch?

Two things to QA:

1. The earlier Penryn pre-production sample chips came from a different factory/fab - so you'd want to do a thorough QA with samples of the production chips to verify that they are the same.

2. Each individual system would need a production QA (also sometimes called "burn-in") to make sure that it's working OK before it goes into the box. Customers tend to be very upset with DOA systems!

I already have a couple of pre-production systems, and they work fine. This additional QA (1)isn't a full design cycle, it's just a thorough test to verify that the production chips act just like the samples.

Note: A company could take the chance that everything's OK with the new chips, and do the "thorough QA" in parallel with machine assembly, burn-in and shipping. You'd need to be able to hold onto the finished systems until the full QA completed, and if there's a problem it could cost a bit more to unbox and fix the machines.

 

[macz1]

Do you really think they would start QA when it's released? Don't you think they would have a sample for at least few weeks ahead of the launch?

Yes, a lot of pre-production 45nm CPUs have been reviewed several weeks before intel's official launch. There were definitely some samples around for testing, Xeons too.

 

[Gloor]

90 posts to go and we get the update

 

[AidenShaw]

90 posts to go and we get the update

Be careful, the moderators will delete posts that don't do anything other than add to the count.



Like this one

 

[Gloor]

Be careful, the moderators will delete posts that don't do anything other than add to the count.



Like this one

Oh, I didn't know that. Thanks for info.
Back to the topic then. Where the hell is the update?

 

[milo]

Where the hell is the update?

Probably in the same place as those intel chips that haven't shipped yet.

 

[FireSlash]

I emailed sjobs@apple.com and got a response in under 24hours. The response suggested I purchase an iMac instead.

Any hope I had for mac pro updates before January just died. Maybe it's time to build that 8 core Xeon PC I've been thinking about.

 

[darthraige]

I emailed sjobs@apple.com and got a response in under 24hours. The response suggested I purchase an iMac instead.

Any hope I had for mac pro updates before January just died. Maybe it's time to build that 8 core Xeon PC I've been thinking about.

Did you mention at all what you plan to do with the MacPro? Maybe they thought that it was best for you to purchase the iMac since you won't be doing as much with it?

That and they just want you to buy anything right now.

 

[IlluminatedSage]

funny how long apple makes people wait for a product refresh.

this is getting frustrating. because they just may you wait and wait. they don't do much mid-cycle price adjustments or tweaks like offering a new video card option.

i need a new tower, would hope they do a midsized tower. but it is getting frustrating waiting.

 

[G4DP]

Hell will freeze

I think hell will Freeze over before this update arrives. Well they've released 10.5.1. Now this says to me tht either 10.5 was rushed and full of mistakes, or they are preparing for a update.

Given the total lack of rumors, i'll say the former.

Apple responding to someone, who clearly wants a MacPro, with why don't you buy an iMac, is either pig ignorance by the responder or Apple just doesn't care about the Pro user? I'll let you ake up your own mind. I know which I think.

A major OS update after 3 weeks?

 

[FireSlash]

Did you mention at all what you plan to do with the MacPro? Maybe they thought that it was best for you to purchase the iMac since you won't be doing as much with it.

I mentioned clearly that I was a software developer, needed a headless desktop for space and performance reasons, and that the mini was clearly too anemic.

 

[Wild-Bill]

Apple responding to someone, who clearly wants a MacPro, with why don't you buy an iMac, is either pig ignorance by the responder or Apple just doesn't care about the Pro user? I'll let you ake up your own mind. I know which I think.

WOW. I almost fell out of my chair when I read the response to the e-mail. I haven't received any type of response from my e-mail. If I had received a response that said "get an iMac instead" I'm sure it would have invoked a tirade-laden response. What nerve!

 

[Jonny427]

I still think apple is missing the point that several companies have been holding out their business purchases until an upgraded machine gets released. They need to purchase by year's end in order to qualify it for a tax deduction.. and I can tell you several of my friends are getting very anxious as they will have no choice but to purchase the current "outdated" model should the newer one not be released in time.

 

[FireSlash]

I still think apple is missing the point that several companies have been holding out their business purchases until an upgraded machine gets released. They need to purchase by year's end in order to qualify it for a tax deduction.. and I can tell you several of my friends are getting very anxious as they will have no choice but to purchase the current "outdated" model should the newer one not be released in time.

Sounds like a great way to clear the current mac pro inventory....

 

[Jonny427]

Sounds like a great way to clear the current mac pro inventory....

yep, but damnit i want the new one

 

[darthraige]

I don't get it. Apple knows the current MacPros suck, well, for the current price. If Apple has been honoring the iPhone 100 buck rebate, they clearly got enough people complaining about it. If there are no current sales of the MacPro, maybe Apple will honor us pros and release them so we can do tax reduction. Never know, those updates could have been for the new MacPro, hopefully being released next Tuesday.

 

[Gloor]

I think we are getting closer. Maybe they were waiting for 10.5.1. before they release the updated MP. I so hope it is going to happen very soon (like today)

 

[irishgrizzly]

It really hard to justify buying a new Pro that hasn't been updated since Sept 06. If they get released in Jan and they follow the same update time-scale, the next update may not come until June 09!