2008-09 Football Thread - The Second Half

[Jaffa Cake]

Ah, but it takes a special kind of team to pull off wearing amberish hues effectively.

I actually find the history of how club colours have developed quite interesting – certainly, it's quite cool when a team has a story behind why they wear particular designs. Arsenal would be a good example – there's the old story (whether it's totally true or not is another matter) that Herbert Chapman was inspired to change to the famous red-with-white sleeve design after seeing a chap wearing a red tank top over a white long-sleeve shirt. It's little things like that that help add to the uniqueness of each club, if you ask me.

As for us, I've no idea why we started wearing black and amber stripes – it seems though that the 'Tigers' nickname was inspired by the colours, not the other way around.

Out of interest your Lordship – given that they're relatively new clubs by footballing standards, is there any particular logic behind the colours the MLS teams wear? Do they tally up with their city's other sporting teams, reflect State flags or some such, or are they just what Adidas reckon look good?

EDIT: On the subject of club colours, we're watching Oldham taking on dirty, dirty Leeds – and Oldham are playing in a one-off all-pink kit, to raise money for a local breast cancer charity. Deano's on the bench, I'm really hoping he comes on wearing that.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Good question. Red Bull New York's name, kit and colors are nothing more than a walking billboard for the nasty energy drink. I know that Chivas USA's kit resembles that of their "parent" club in Mexico. Real Salt lake's away jersey bears a slight resemblance to Real Madrid's home jersey - but RSL's home jersey rather hilariously uses the Barcelona colors (slaps forehead).

As for my own Columbus, the history of the name, crest and kit reflects both the youth of the league, the town the team is located in, and American sports conventions. The name was the result of a newspaper poll, and was chosen to reflect the fact that Columbus (and Ohio in general) is a classic blue-collar area, with a lot of agriculture and manufacturing. The crest and kit were designed by Adidas, so while the yellow jersey is a hallmark of Columbus football today, it was created without any special meaning (no other major sports team in Ohio uses those colors).

The most classic thing about out star players' appearance is not the kit, but the classic mullet hairdo. I was so disappointed when he finally cut it.

EDIT: On the subject of club colours, we're watching Oldham taking on dirty, dirty Leeds – and Oldham are playing in a one-off all-pink kit, to raise money for a local breast cancer charity. Deano's on the bench, I'm really hoping he comes on wearing that.

That would be brilliant! Reminds me of Palermo's pink kit - you gotta be a man to step on to the pitch in that.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

That would be brilliant! Reminds me of Palermo's pink kit - you gotta be a man to step on to the pitch in that.

On that note, quite a few English teams wore pink in their early years – Everton and West Ham being a couple of examples. Back in Victorian times, salmon hues were seen as being quite a manly colour what with them being a tint of red. It's only later that the 'pink for girls, blue for boys' notion came about.

Juventus used to play in pink as well, but in the early 20th Century changed to their now famous black and white stripes to emulate leading football power house Notts County...

 

[pachyderm]

soccernet.com/Foster/ipod

Soccernet - "The Football Association have revealed they will take no action against Manchester United goalkeeper Ben Foster after he used an iPod to watch Spurs taking penalties before Sunday's Carling Cup final penalty shootout.


Empics
Ben Foster: Shootout controversy
The 25-year-old confirmed he watched a spot-kick taken by Jamie O'Hara in the UEFA Cup defeat to PSV Eindhoven last season - and then saved his penalty at Wembley.

In that game, O'Hara fired a shot to the left of the goalkeeper and on Sunday he sent Tottenham's first penalty the same way and Foster saved.

The idea of using an iPod as a tactical aid is new and not against the laws of the game. It brings into question a loophole in FIFA's regulations with regards to the use of technology and it is possible they could now move to tighten up their rules.

An FA spokesman said: "What happened was not against the rules so we will not be investigating the matter further."..."

_________________________________________

footballshirtculture.com - "The FA has revealed a new version of its iconic ‘Three Lions’ Crest – the visual identity of The FA and England teams. The new design takes its inspiration from the 1948-49 Crest.

The iconic ‘Three Lions’ Crest has been refreshed to give greater visual standout in today’s digital environment.

It draws directly from the significant heritage the Crest embodies – namely the College of Arms version commissioned by The FA in 1948. It is the first time in seven years The FA has made changes to its Crest.

It includes redrawn Three Lions, more authentic-looking Tudor roses and a new colourway for the England Crest – lighter blue – to differentiate it from the previous version and enhance its on-shirt presence.

The England Senior Team will wear the Crest for the first time on 28 March in the match against Slovakia at Wembley Stadium.

Extensive research was conducted by The FA with different groups before the design changes were undertaken in-house. The aim was to establish what ‘The FA’ and ‘England’ represent in people’s lives, and to gain a greater insight into the sense of national identity the ‘Three Lions’ can deliver.

The FA’s Group Commercial Director, Jonathan Hill, commented: “We have taken great care in updating The FA’s ‘Three Lions’ Crest.

"The new designs have been modernised for today’s digital world, whilst also ensuring that they reflect the rich heritage and traditions of the Crest - particularly the 1948-49 version.”

The single-lion emblem was first adopted by Henry II when he became King of England in 1154. It was added to by Richard I (The Lion-heart) who added a second, and then third lion by the end of his reign in 1199.

However it was not until 1872, nine years after The FA was established, that the Crest featured in an England game, adorning the players’ shirts in the world’s first international match, between England and Scotland in Glasgow."

 

[Jaffa Cake]

I've not liked the 'England' name bar since it was added, and I'm not keen on this unnecessary rebrand. The blue is too pale, it needs to be a navy blue. It's a bit wishy washy rather than imposing.

I think there are more important things the FA need to address before messing around with the crest – how about ensuring that the talents of the youngsters who may one day wear it are better nurtured by improving facilities and raising coaching standards?

 

[Queso]

I've not liked the 'England' name bar since it was added, and I'm not keen on this unnecessary rebrand. The blue is too pale, it needs to be a navy blue. It's a bit wishy washy rather than imposing.

I think there are more important things the FA need to address before messing around with the crest – how about ensuring that the talents of the youngsters who may one day wear it are better nurtured by improving facilities and raising coaching standards?

And whilst they're at it, how about doing something to improve the current shocking state of referring standards.

 

[OllyW]

Ah, but it takes a special kind of team to pull off wearing amberish hues effectively.

I know, our current form is almost as bad as yours.

 

[Fuzzy14]

Extensive research was conducted by The FA with different groups before the design changes were undertaken in-house. The aim was to establish what ‘The FA’ and ‘England’ represent in people’s lives, and to gain a greater insight into the sense of national identity the ‘Three Lions’ can deliver.

Blah blah blah blah blah. I don't see any difference. How much money has this pointless rebranding exercise cost grass roots football?

However it was not until 1872, nine years after The FA was established, that the Crest featured in an England game, adorning the players’ shirts in the world’s first international match, between England and Scotland in Glasgow."

It was held at a cricket ground not far from where I'm currently sitting. The Scotland team was basically Queens Park FC, indeed they even played in QP strips! Of course, Scotland famously won the match 0-0. Linky

I prefer one lion to three

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I've not liked the 'England' name bar since it was added, and I'm not keen on this unnecessary rebrand. The blue is too pale, it needs to be a navy blue. It's a bit wishy washy rather than imposing.

I agree. And why, if the kit incorporates the three lions (and also the cross of St. George), is it necessary to write "England" on it?

Then again, I'm not surprised. I've never heard an Englishman express satisfaction over satisfaction over the way the FA does its job.

 

[R.Youden]

Just found this on the internet taken from the BBC boards:

My name is Trevor Trumpet.

I used to say that what I don’t know about football you could fit on a postage stamp. But as most people seem to send their letters by e-mail these days, I always say now that what I don’t know about football you could fit on a microchip.

In recognition of the fact that I know so much about the game, all my friends used to call me Clever Trevor. Now they have raised the bar and call me Jose, as they say that I’m also quite a special one. It’s nice when people compliment you like that.

Anyway, I was gutted that we lost to Blackburn. We definitely deserved to win that game after hammering them 0-0 in the first half hour. We pummeled them from start to finish. We must have had a dozen corners. Maybe twelve. I don't know - I'm guessing. But only two teams were ever in that game – and we were one of them. If they hadn’t scored twice, we would have won.

The bloke who sits next to me said he thought we underestimated Blackburn – and that’s why Phil Brown put out a weakened team. But I don’t think we underestimated them – they just turned out to be a lot better than we thought.

Pity Geovanni missed that chance when he found himself unmarked in the box early on in the game. Geo is deadly ten times out of ten in those situations, but that wasn’t one of them.

I still don’t understand why Brownie didn’t bring Daniel Cousin on much earlier, though. We were losing 2-0, and as I see it, when you’ve got a fresh pair of legs up your sleeve, you’ve got to chance your arm.

But even though Brownie decided to take Geovanni off, and Dean Marney decided to take Gamst-Pedersen’s nadgers off, I wouldn't say we lost the game, so much as just ran out of time to get an equaliser.

By the way, that was quite a good strike by Marney, I thought. People always say that if Dean Marney had shot John Lennon, he’d still be alive today, but yesterday I think he proved them all wrong. He’s really quite the dead ball expert, after all. Although I do think he should apologise to Mrs. Gamst-Pedersen for putting his foot where no man's hand should go.

Anyway, even though we look as raw as a steak tartare at the moment, we’re still thirteenth in the Premier League, and apart from being in the top ten, you really can’t do better than that. We’ve still got a lot to look forward to. FA Cup Quarter Final coming up next. And football matches don’t come any bigger than FA Cup Quarter Finals. Except for FA Cup Semi-Finals, of course.

I’m not bothered about triumph and glory every week. I just love being in the Premier League. As far as I’m concerned, we could lose every game we played – just so long as we didn’t get relegated at the end of the season.

I just hope it doesn’t come down to us having to beat Manchester United on the last day of the season to stay up. Manchester United are the English Champions, European Champions, and World Champions. Which makes them at least as good as Blackburn
in my book.

The way they’re playing, it looks like no one can beat them, but the game will come when somebody scores more than Manchester United - and that might just be the game they lose.

Anyway, on to more immediate business, and Fulham in less than forty eight hours. I just hope Brownie puts out a team with some decent players in it this time. I’ve been a butcher for nearly forty years, and I know mince when I see it. And believe me, Kevin Kilbane is mince.

Not Michael Turner, though. If Michael Turner was French, he wouldn’t be called Michael Turner. He would be called Filet Mignon – which is French for Top Gaffer. As a footballer, Michael Turner is the finished article – and he’ll only improve with time.

As most of our best performances have come in London this season, playing another London side could be an omen. But I don't believe in omens.

I believe in Amens. I only say that because one of my customers asked me today what's the difference between Phil Brown and God. I said I didn't know, so he told me that God doesn't think he's Phil Brown.

I asked him how he knew, but he said he was only kidding. I'm not very good at getting subtle humour like that, see. It usually goes straight over my head. It's a bit like lobbing Boaz Myhill, I suppose.

Anyway, whatever Brownie tries these days, it just doesn’t seem to be working. Come to think of it, neither am I.

So I guess it’s back to the drawing board for him. And back to the chopping board for me.

Speaking words of wisdom.

Trevor.

Pure genius.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I did the fixture calculator thingy on the BBC website (that's actually a lot of work to fill out if you do all the fixtures ) and this was my end-of-season result:

1. Man Utd 91pts
2. Chelsea 83
3. Liverpool 83
4. Aston Villa 77
5. Arsenal 72

13. Hull City 42
14. Stoke 41

18. Middlebrough 35
19. Newcastle 31
20. West Brom 25

I have Portsmouth at 35 pts, surviving on goal difference, and Liverpool losing 1-0 to Spurs on the last day with a 90th minute goal from one Robbie Keane.

EDIT: Newcastle have scored on United...so much for that goalkeeping world record - though it was more down to Vidic than van der Sar. But to concede to Newcastle?

 

[garybUK]

EDIT: Newcastle have scored on United...so much for that goalkeeping world record - though it was more down to Vidic than van der Sar. But to concede to Newcastle?

We did beat the record ya know and doesn't matter 2-1, 7 points ahead with a goal in hand..... i'd say were in a good position.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

We did beat the record ya know and doesn't matter 2-1, 7 points ahead with a goal in hand..... i'd say were in a good position.

And let's just consider a bit of Manchester United aceness – on loan Red Devil Manucho looks to have clinched us an injury time winner at Fulham. We've just got to defend these last few moments...

EDIT: And three points it is! In your face, Lawrenson!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

We did beat the record ya know and doesn't matter 2-1, 7 points ahead with a goal in hand..... i'd say were in a good position.

The league and European record, not the world record IIRC. It's a small point though. But I have to say, I would put the record down to United's defense (particularly Vidic) rather than van der Sar himself. While he is a keeper of undoubted quality, he has less to do than most keepers in the league. Brad Friedel, Tim Howard, Shay Given and Mark Schwartzer are all top keepers who make a lot more tough saves on a daily basis. Again, the quality of the back four plays a role in this - but during the majority of van der Sar's "record" run he simply stood around and watched his team win games.

Good result for Hull, though I have to admit I wanted to see Clint Dempsey score (as I do every time Fulham plays). Good game in goal for Matt Duke to deny my fellow countryman on a few occasions.

EDIT: I thought it was over, but Hull steal a winner! The footballing gods forgot that Manucho was out on loan and sent a little of the Man Utd fortune to Hull. Well done Tigers!

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Good job we did win tonight, otherwise that would probably have been it for our title challenge.

In all seriousness though, just as important as the win is the clean sheet. A good team performance and it will hopefully help with the key thing I think we've lacked of late – confidence.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Don't worry, I think you are still well on course to win "Best Premier League season for a Hull side" at a trot.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Don't worry, I think you are still well on course to win "Best Premier League season for a Hull side" at a trot.

The gaffer and the boys are delighted to hear it.

 

[Blue Velvet]

Good job we did win tonight, otherwise that would probably have been it for our title challenge.

Pleased for teh Jaffas and teh Tiger Army.

What do you think of the charge I've read elsewhere that the slide in Hull's fortunes and morale was worsened as a result of Phil Brown's bollocking in public, keeping the team out on the pitch at halftime while away at Man. City?

I'm not entirely sure it was the best example of man-management, myself. In retrospect, possibly better to throw some boots or teacups in the dressing-room, as per Ferguson's hairdryer.

 

[MacsRgr8]

Man City did us a favour!

I remember when I went to see Arsenal play Man City @ Highbury a few years ago, the Man City fans started signing "If you hate Man Utd clap your hands, if you hate Man Utd clap your hands..... etc", and they got every living sole in the stadium clapping their hands..! Brilliant

 

[Jaffa Cake]

What do you think of the charge I've read elsewhere that the slide in Hull's fortunes and morale was worsened as a result of Phil Brown's bollocking in public, keeping the team out on the pitch at halftime while away at Man. City?

Opinion differs on this. Personally, I don't think it had the adverse effect some have claimed.

As I said in my previous post, a key thing we've missed is the confidence we had during the opening spell of the season. Really, I think you can trace it back to the home defeat to Chelsea when we were comfortably outplayed by an easily better side. Aside from a slightly fortuitous result against Middlesbrough, we hadn't won in the League at all since – until tonight.

I don't think that talk worsened things, to be honest. Losing arguably our best striker in January and not bringing in an effective replacement has damaged us much more. The fact that we've played a midfielder – squeaky voiced antipodean Richard Garcia – up front in the last couple of matches is an indication that we're lacking in this particular area.

I think it's also worth noting that a lot of teams seriously under estimated us in the early part of the season and we were able to surprise a couple of them, but when they've played us for the second time they've been wiser to us.

Still, we've played Newcastle three times already this season and haven't lost yet – we've recorded two wins and a draw – and they're up next. Roar.

EDIT: Phil Brown has just been on the radio, saying that he stands by all his decisions – and the Prozone stats prove it.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

EDIT: Phil Brown has just been on the radio, saying that he stands by all his decisions – and the Prozone stats prove it.

Did ProZone tell him to have the halftime talk on the pitch?

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Did ProZone tell him to have the halftime talk on the pitch?

No, he was trialling the new ProMoan software on that occasion. He'd already tried GroZone when he grew that little goatee last autumn but overall he wasn't too keen on it.

But if it had of been ProZone that led him to take that half time action, then his decision would have been entirely justified. You don't argue with the Gaffer's ProZone, you see.

In fact, I've seen Phil Brown's ProZone stats and was very impressed by the sheer number of meaningless statistics on show. Whatever you want to prove, the ProZone stats will prove it.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I think Rafa uses ProMoan as well.

I wonder if it records the records of managers with facial hair v.s. clean-shaven gaffers.

 

[R.Youden]

just on my way back from the Fulham game. Wow, what a game. We dominated from start to finish of injury time. Manucho did more in 10 minutes than Cousan did in the whole game. Bring on Newcastle in 10 days. Up the tigers...

 

[Markleshark]

Well, I went to Newcastle - United game last night (had to sit nice and quiet in with the Geordies) and I tell ya what, Newcastle played really well. Hull have quite the task if that Newcastle team turns up, which of course, I'm sure they wont.