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2008/9 COLLEGE Football Thread

SLC Flyfishing said:
OK, I want to hear MacDawg's response to this, (and everyone else's too):

What sport (at any level of competition) besides college football, can a team go undefeated and not be champions?

The BCS blows a big one and the Utes are the legitimate 2008 season National Champs, there's not a valid argument that anyone can make against that!

SLC

GO UTES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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because they are from the crappy MWC duh;)

i agree with you. Utah should be named co-champs

They play quality teams in OoC play, have won BCS bowl in past. What more can they do to earn respect?

I think its sad at how the MWC is looked on. After watching CSU play throughout the years and multiple other MWC games, they are a good conference. They perform very well against the supposably "better" conferences and yet no credit is given. By credit, I mean merit to being considered a champion by going undefeated.

Heck even CSU (who sucked last year) almost upset Cal who was ranked #8 in Fort Collins last season. recap for those interested

Point is, MWC teams are legit and not a fluke conference by any means. Time to be treated as such:cool:
 
SLC Flyfishing said:
OK, I want to hear MacDawg's response to this, (and everyone else's too):

What sport (at any level of competition) besides college football, can a team go undefeated and not be champions?

The BCS blows a big one and the Utes are the legitimate 2008 season National Champs, there's not a valid argument that anyone can make against that!
Click to expand...

dukebound85 said:
i agree with you. Utah should be named co-champs
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The legitimate 2008 season National Champs? Hardly
You claim the Ute team that beat Pitt was the legitmate champs that year too

And Badandy claims the AP as a championship for his Trojans one year as well...

No, you can argue against the system, we all do (ain't it fun?)
I can say that Georgia was the legitimate NC last year too
"Everybody" knew USC and Georgia were the two best teams and should have played :rolleyes:
But it didn't happen that way

Like it or not (and we don't), but the BCS is the recognized system for determining the "legitimate" champion
That champion will be Oklahoma or Florida
The Utes might get #2, but more likely a #3 or #4
They had a great season, without question

Are they the best team in the country?
I don't think so, and neither does the majority of those with an opinion
That's why they didn't get the votes

Now, if we did have a playoff, would they win?
I doubt it, but you never know... I didn't think they would beat 'Bama
I don't think they would beat USC, Texas, Oklahoma, or Florida either
But they might, on any given Saturday

The point is... we DON'T have a playoff
We have the BCS
I am not defending the BCS, and I don't have the power to change it either
The bottom line? The BCS Champion will be either Oklahoma of Florida
Even if we had a "Plus 1", who would play the winner?
Utah? USC? Texas?

This is nothing new... You will have to join the great fraternity of those who mourn their team's fortunes, along with Badandy, Auburn a few years ago, and a host of other disappointed schools throughout history who feel they were jobbed. Heck, even before the BCS there were years when several teams went undefeated and only 1 was voted National Champs. I don't like the BCS any more than you do, but at least they TRY to get #1 and #2 together, unlike the pre-BCS days when #1 might play in the Sugar against #5 and #2 might play in the Orange against #4 and they never face each other. In those days it was a big deal to ever have a true #1 play a #2.

Would I like to see a playoff? Meh... doesn't matter... we aren't getting one

Congrats to the Utes on a great season
But I still think Oklahoma, Florida, USC and Texas are better teams this year
I know, I know... "we will never know because they didn't play on the field"
It is all opinion... and that is mine... and you have yours
If enough people shared yours and not mine... you would be in the NC game

Woof, Woof - Dawg
pawprint.gif
 
That is a Bull S%$# answer MacDawg and you know it.

Look at it this way!

Georgia goes undefeated in 2008, they beat Michigan (who's supposed to be a great opponent) they beat the #2 Pac 10 team, they beat a #11 team, they beat a #16 team that was #9 before a loss to the team who is #16 only because of a loss to the #1 team, then they beat everyone in the SEC (who in general is on the same level as the MWC and you know it).

They go undefeated, then they get Alabama in their bowl, and Bama has only one loss, and were #1 from the first BCS poll until their last game of the season.

So the Dawgs finish without a loss, should they be National Champions?

How can the Utes go undefeated, and not at least be in the game? You say they wouldn't beat Florida this year, well they put a pasting on Alabama in a much more convincing fashion than Florida did. I think Utah would beat Florida, and I think they could beat Oklahoma, Texas, and definitely would beat USC. I'm sorry but they are National Champions.

Isn't it ironic that it's the "BCS conferences" that are given the authority to keep this exclusionary system in place?

University of Utah is the 2008 NCAA football National Champion!

SLC
 
MacDawg said:
Would I like to see a playoff? Meh... doesn't matter... we aren't getting one
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I think we will get one starting 2011 season, designed in a way to minimize interference with college exam finals (the biggest gripe by college presidents against a playoff).

I see it working like this:

1) Season starts on its current scheduled start dates.
2) Regular season will be eleven games long.
3) There will be NO rankings until last Saturday of September or first Saturday of October.
4) First BCS rankings come out two weeks after first rankings.
5) After 11 games, first and second ranked teams in conference (or conference division winners) play in conference championship games.
6) Top eight ranked teams will be picked out to play first elimination game regardless of if they won conference championship or not.
7) Matchups will be #1 vs. #8, #2 vs. #7, #3 vs. #6 and #4 vs #5, with the higher-ranked teams hosting the games. This will happen at the end of the first weekend in December.
8) On New Year's Day, the winners of these four games will be reseeded #1 to #4, with #1 vs #4 and #2 vs #3 in two BCS bowl games.
9) One week later, the winners of these two BCS bowl games play for the championship.

This is by far the best plan and offers these advantages:

1) It has no interference with college exam finals, as mentioned earlier.
2) It may even tilt the balance of power back to schools located in northern climates (who'd want to play at possibly Michigan, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Penn State or a northern-location Big East school in early December for the first elimination game if we have the potential for really bad winter weather?).
 
SLC Flyfishing said:
What sport (at any level of competition) besides college football, can a team go undefeated and not be champions?
Click to expand...

Boxing is a good analogy. You can be undefeated, but if the governing authority (such as the WBA, WBC, etc. - or the BCS in the case of college football) still doesn't deem you the top condender for the title, then you're not going to get your shot. Might be fair, might not, but that's how these things sometimes work.

Congrats to Utah, you guys were clearly the better team. I stand by one of my comments earlier; a few more seasons like this and it's entirely feasible that the Utes could find themselves in the NC picture for real.
 
Tomorrow said:
Boxing is a good analogy. You can be undefeated, but if the governing authority (such as the WBA, WBC, etc. - or the BCS in the case of college football) still doesn't deem you the top condender for the title, then you're not going to get your shot. Might be fair, might not, but that's how these things sometimes work.

Congrats to Utah, you guys were clearly the better team. I stand by one of my comments earlier; a few more seasons like this and it's entirely feasible that the Utes could find themselves in the NC picture for real.
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How many seasons is the right amount of seasons Tomorrow? How many seasons did Bama have to have before they were allowed into the BCS title picture? That's right they were in it from the beginning, I'm sorry but that's a crap analogy.

And if there were a boxer who beat 5 of the best boxers in the league you can bet your ass he'd be getting a shot at the title, nobody with an ounce of credibility could deny that to him.

SLC
 
SLC Flyfishing said:
University of Utah is the 2008 NCAA football National Champion!
Click to expand...

Of course you are free to claim whatever you like...
But it simply doesn't make it so

After the 2004 season when USC won the BCS...
the same season you say Utah was National Champs the first time...
Auburn went undefeated and apparently even handed out National Championship rings

Coach Tommy Tuberville confirmed that the Auburn Tigers players would get national championship rings for their 13-0 season, despite finishing the year #2 in the final 2004 AP poll and the final 2004 coaches polls.
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SactoGuy18 said:
I think we will get one starting 2011 season <snip>
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Sounds nice... but I just don't see it happening
Things can change, but the way things are now... it doesn't look promising
Those who make the decisions have no appetite for it, regardless of what we say

Woof, Woof - Dawg
pawprint.gif
 
Badandy said:
Finishing Rank
2002: Top 5
2003: NC Top 5
2004: NC
2005: Top 5
2006: Top 5
2007: Top 5
2008: Top 5
2009: Top 5
Click to expand...

Fixed that for ya! ;)
We will have to wait and see about the 2009 season... that's next year

Pete Carroll's first year, in 2001, you went 6-6, finished 5th in the Pac 10, lost the Las Vegas Bowl, and didn't make the Top 25
In fact, from 1996-2001 you didn't make the Top 25 ;)

Make no mistake Badandy, the Trojans are a good team and a force to be reckoned with
I don't think anyone questions that... but they aren't the only good team
And they are not the only good team to be overlooked
Fans of other programs have the same gripes... even Utah ;)

That is what makes college football fun... the trash talking and the "what ifs"
We all love our teams and see them in the best light possible
And we can all find the weaknesses of others... and make our case

Here is the Dawgs record and standings (AP) from 1997-2008

Coach Richt
2008 10-3 Top 10? (maybe, but Top 15 at least)
2007 11-2 Top 5 (2)
2006 9-4 Top 25 (22)
2005 10-3 Top 10 (10)
2004 10-2 Top 10 (7)
2003 11-3 Top 10 (7)
2002 13-1 Top 5 (3)
2001 8-4 Top 25 (22)

Coach Donnan
2000 8-4 Top 20 (20)
1999 8-4 Top 20 (16)
1998 9-3 Top 20 (14)
1997 10-2 Top 10 (10)

6 of the last 7 seasons = 10 wins or better
6 of the last 7 seasons = Top 10 or better (if we make it this year)
12 straight seasons Top 25 or better
10 of those seasons are Top 20 or better

Woof, Woof - Dawg
pawprint.gif
 
P-Worm said:
Any word on if iTunes is going to release the bowl games again for purchase? I want to keep the sugar bowl game around for years to come.
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Fox made a comment during last night's game that all bowl games would be available on iTunes one day after the game was played. You might want to check that out.
 
Ohio State, 0-9 against the SEC in bowl games, but is 5-0 against the Big 12 in bowl games. In 2005, Ohio State lost to Texas by only three points, 25-22. The following year, Ohio State beat Texas 24-7. Don't think that Ohio State is down and out before the game even kicks off. I'm expecting a long and hard fight that could go down until the very end. I predict Ohio State wins 30-28! GO BUCKS! :cool:
 
iDAG said:
Ohio State, 0-9 against the SEC in bowl games, but is 5-0 against the Big 12 in bowl games. In 2005, Ohio State lost to Texas by only three points, 25-22. The following year, Ohio State beat Texas 24-7. Don't think that Ohio State is down and out before the game even kicks off. I'm expecting a long and hard fight that could go down until the very end. I predict Ohio State wins 30-28! GO BUCKS! :cool:
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It has the potential to be a great game
Let's hope they do better than the rest of the Big 10 this year
So far, Iowa's win over SCarolina is keeping you from an "0-fer"
An Ohio State win in a BCS bowl would do a lot for help their confidence and the Big 10's repututation

conference5.png


*I emailed NBC and got the graphic corrected for the Big 10 record :)

This should be a good matchup, in spite of the showing Ohio State had with USC early in the year
Because of the home and home a few years ago that they split, it has a little rivalry aspect to it

I still like Texas in this game, but as you can tell, my picks are not 100% locks :rolleyes:

Woof, Woof - Dawg
pawprint.gif
 
missing wells in the usc game really hurt ohio state. everyone knows you can run all over usc. oregon state did, we did with backups, stanford did, arizona put up 100, etc...

not saying wells would have put all those points on the board but the game would have been a lot different. and now that pryor has experience he would have done a lot of damage on usc.
 
dmr727 said:
So what, no UConn/Buffalo smack? :D
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Buffalo up 13-10 on UConn midway through the 2nd

Buffalo has had a good year and Turner Gill deserves a shot at a big time program. He would have been a much better hire for Auburn than Chizik in my opinion. However, being a Dawg fan, I prefer them to be stuck with Chizik moving forward.

Edit: Wow... UConn has turned the ball over 5 times on fumbles in the first half and they are still in the game

20-17 almost the half

Total yards:
Buffalo 94
UConn 210 (all on the ground, zero passing yards on 1 attempt)


Woof, Woof - Dawg
pawprint.gif
 
SLC Flyfishing said:
How many seasons is the right amount of seasons Tomorrow? How many seasons did Bama have to have before they were allowed into the BCS title picture? That's right they were in it from the beginning, I'm sorry but that's a crap analogy.

And if there were a boxer who beat 5 of the best boxers in the league you can bet your ass he'd be getting a shot at the title, nobody with an ounce of credibility could deny that to him.

SLC
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The right amount of seasons? That's up to the voters. Right now, Utah isn't going to crack the top 2 in the regular season because they're in the MWC, and right now the voters aren't going to give them that kind of credit. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that's reality.

To answer your other question, Alabama was in the BCS title picture because they've been there for decades. If I remember correctly, you could count on one hand the number of schools with more consensus national championships than 'Bama. In the meantime, where was Utah before 2004? How many years had they been seen routinely beating up on SEC-caliber talent?

Don't get me wrong, I wanted Utah to win last night and I figured they would. Any team that can beat BYU, Oregon State, TCU, and Alabama in the same season has definitely earned some serious bragging rights - but for the time being, it's only one season, and one season alone isn't likely to establish a championship legacy. The teams you see in the BCS title hunt year-in, year-out (think of teams like USC, Ohio State, Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma, Florida, Michigan prior to 2007, and Notre Dame prior to 1994), are the ones that have been there for many, many seasons.

(I'm also not an SEC homer, btw - Boomer Sooner!)

I also stand by my boxing analogy - no matter how many chumps or contenders you beat up, if the WBA says no title shot for you, then no title shot for you - it's that simple. If anything, there's possibly more politicking going on in boxing than in BCS football. Do some research - there's a ton of who's-fighting-who, I'm-not-fighting-him-unless-you-pay-me-more-than-you-pay-him, and WBA-isn't-giving-me-a-title-shot-until-I-drop-the-WBC-title going on out there, and it's depriving viewers and fans of some matchups that they would like to see. If you think politics and lobbying are exclusive to the BCS you're not paying enough attention.
 
so if they had a +1 system who would play the winner of the NC?

assuming florida wins:
utah?
usc? but florida would be able to run all over usc's terrible run defense
texas? put another big12 team up to fail?
 
obey908 said:
so if they had a +1 system who would play the winner of the NC?

assuming florida wins:
utah?
usc? but florida would be able to run all over usc's terrible run defense
texas? put another big12 team up to fail?
Click to expand...

I asked the same question buried in post #1602

You would still have a controversy and a voter's decision
It would solve nothing

Woof, Woof - Dawg
pawprint.gif
 
MacDawg said:
Here is the Dawgs record and standings (AP) from 1997-2008

Coach Richt
2008 10-3 Top 10? (maybe, but Top 15 at least)
2007 11-2 Top 5 (2)
2006 9-4 Top 25 (22)
2005 10-3 Top 10 (10)
2004 10-2 Top 10 (7)
2003 11-3 Top 10 (7)
2002 13-1 Top 5 (3)
2001 8-4 Top 25 (22)

Coach Donnan
2000 8-4 Top 20 (20)
1999 8-4 Top 20 (16)
1998 9-3 Top 20 (14)
1997 10-2 Top 10 (10)

6 of the last 7 seasons = 10 wins or better
6 of the last 7 seasons = Top 10 or better (if we make it this year)
12 straight seasons Top 25 or better
10 of those seasons are Top 20 or better

Woof, Woof - Dawg
pawprint.gif
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thanks for posting those stats.

i remember hearing an aflac trivia question while watching a UGA game, and the question was something like "what 2 teams have finished the season in the top 10 in the last 6 seasons?"

and the answer was UGA and USC. but i guess the question was top 25 instead of top 10?
 
Congrats to Utah! I was definitely proved wrong about this game. I couldn't believe how quick they stuck it on Alabama.

Whether they deserve to be called co-champs is up for debate. In my opinion, I think that they should have the #2 spot at the end of the year. This win especially should open up the door for future BCS busters.



Note: I realized during the game that Utah's fight song uses the same tune behind Georgia Tech's (music is from an old English drinking song). I had to go look up the lyrics to the Utah version, and man is it weak compared to Tech's. But hey, at least Utah got to play their fight song in their bowl game.
 
UConn 31 Buffalo 20 with about 4:00 to play

Nice story on Buffalo

Here is then opening piece on the story...
"The University of Buffalo has been invited to one bowl games in it's 102 seasons.
This is the story of why the players chose not to go."

Fitting that Turner Gill took them to this bowl

In 1958, the University of Buffalo football team won eight of nine regular-season games and was awarded the Lambert Cup as the best small-school program in the eastern United States. Team co-captains Nick Bottini and Lou Reale received the trophy during a Sunday night broadcast of "The Ed Sullivan Show" and dined that evening in Manhattan's famous Toots Shor's Restaurant.
Days later, the Bulls were invited to face Florida State in the 13th annual Tangerine Bowl in Orlando, Fla. -- still the school's only bowl bid in 102 years of football.

In anticipation of their trip south, players were measured for new sport coats at The Kleinhans Company in downtown Buffalo. But before fabric for the coats ever was cut, the university learned that the team's two African-American players, starting halfback Willie Evans and reserve defensive end Mike Wilson, were not welcome in Orlando.

The Orlando High School Athletic Association, the Tangerine Bowl Stadium's leaseholder, prohibited blacks and whites from playing together. Despite the protestations of the Orlando Elks Lodge, the bowl game's sponsor, the Bulls would be allowed to participate only if Wilson and Evans did not play.

The university and coach Dick Offenhamer left it to the team to decide whether to accept the bid. The players gathered in a basement room of Clark Gymnasium on the Buffalo campus to take a vote. Bottini and Reale held small paper ballots in their hands, but before they could pass them out, the players spontaneously and unanimously rejected the bid.

"We weren't the same team without Willie and Mike," guard Phil Bamford remembers. "Whether they were benchwarmers or stars, we wouldn't have been the same team."
Click to expand...

Woof, Woof - Dawg
pawprint.gif
 
RamblinWreck said:
Note: I realized during the game that Utah's fight song uses the same tune behind Georgia Tech's (music is from an old English drinking song). I had to go look up the lyrics to the Utah version, and man is it weak compared to Tech's. But hey, at least Utah got to play their fight song in their bowl game.
Click to expand...

You're telling me. Every time I am at a game and sing the fight song, I cringe a bit inside because of the lyrics. Who came up with those?

P-Worm
 
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