Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
2009 Honda Insight Hybrid (70 mpg). The Prius for the rest of us.
- Thread starter Prof.
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I like the FCX Clarity more. It looks cooler. I wish you could just choose either Hydrogen powered or hybrid engine versions with these bodies. Give them the same engine, but make them interchangeable with the car bodies.
some years back there was talk of modular cars. wonder whatever happened to that. basically the shell was replaceable. so was the engine i believe, or a choice, while the frame was basically standard. etc. was a pretty cool idea.
william sire
macrumors regular
I'm glad to see somebody is finally moving forward on new innovative fuel sources. I could care less about all that environmental stuff. But what ever works is fine with me. I just wish it was the big three in the US leading instead of following.
Were do you come up with 70 mpg? Meanwhile the big 3 U.S. automakers have nothing to compete in this segment. But it must be said here in South carolina gas is going for $1.45 - $1.55 a gallon! Yeah baby Yeah! My next car will be a Challenger with 25 mpg.
Challenger? Chrysler?? Yeah, if they are in business
You are looking at the OLD picture, see the first post and click the link, looks like 4 doors to me
No - the City MPG will ALWAYS be lower than highway driving. HOWEVER, the hybrid will always drop fewer MPG in the city than a conventionally engined car.
Incidentally, every time an American moans about fuel prices - I just laugh. Stop drinking it like it's going out of fashion. Stop building cars for which 25mpg is considered good. Seriously - it's pathetic.
Not true. See the Prius...48 city/45 highway. Or the Highlander Hybrid...27 city/25 highway. Or the Escape Hybrid...34 city/30 highway. Full hybrids like these do get better mileage in city driving because they can switch off the gasoline engine when not needed.
Mild hybrids like the Civic or VUE Green Line must keep the gasoline engine running at all times, and their MPG numbers consequently are like traditional cars...highway better than city.
Hmmm......wonder if the guy who created RED (and Oakley sunglasses) is interested in changing the car industry for us.
Were do you come up with 70 mpg? Meanwhile the big 3 U.S. automakers have nothing to compete in this segment. But it must be said here in South carolina gas is going for $1.45 - $1.55 a gallon! Yeah baby Yeah! My next car will be a Challenger with 25 mpg.
Challenger with 25mpg??? Must not be a HEMI and if thats the case why bother.
definitely like the redesign, even if it now looks like the prius. The interior seems tasteful, though they might have overdid it with the emphasis on blue. It will be interesting to see what real world gas mileage turns out to be. Has a price been set on the new insight?
The Civic Hybrid is a full hybrid, it can run up to certain speeds and accelleration rates without the gas engine running. If you are light on the pedal when starting after coming to a complete stop you can keep the engine off for a bit, even a few kilometres.
The Saturn VUE Green Line on the other hand is a real mild hybrid. It cannot move at all without the gas engine running, the electric motor is too small. What makes it a "mild hybrid" is that when you begin to stop, the engine is shut off and isn't restarted until you take off again. This GM system can restart the engine in half a second. It is also capable of recharging the starting system using regenerative braking.
The best aerodynamic shape is decided by nature and the laws of physics. designers have little options.
Actually the "best" shape is like a raindrop, a blunt rounded forward wnd with a pointed tail. But the problem for a car designers is always that cars need to be flat on the bottom because roads are flat. Then if you make it round on top and flat on the bottom you generate lift. You can kill the lift by generating turbulent flow over the top but turbulent flow means drag. So they compromise. If you pick a speed you can optimise the compromise for that one speed. But what speed to optimise 55 MPH or 70 MPH?
So you get the idea. Designers have little room in which to work. It's the same with airplanes. All of them tend to look like long tubes with wings on the side and a tail in the back.
I guess I should have clarified a bit better. The Civic Hybrid is a power-assist hybrid, so it's better than a mild hybrid, but not a full hybrid. Since 2006, the IMA system on the Civic Hybrid has allowed it to decelerate and cruise solely on electric power. A light touch might get you a bit of electric-only acceleration, but the battery system isn't powerful enough to permit the real electric-only operation at low speeds available with full hybrids.
The problem is that all of this terminology has always been in flux, also, in terms of what constitutes mild/full hybrids, how to describe the fuel economy performance of a "plug-in" hybrid, how to characterize the horsepower of a hybrid, etc, etc.
For instance, we were more used to the idea of calling the Honda IMA concept "serial" hybridization, in essence, because it has a primary powertrain and a secondary motor that can add power but cannot run the car by itself, and the Prius-like designs "parallel," because they can be run on various combinations of either/or the combustion or electric powertrain, which can power the wheels independently of each other. But that has its own problems.
I think, outside of plug-ins, it's better (personally) to just let the numbers do the talking and talk about the fuel economy and performance, whether laboratory / simulated driving cycle or real world reports. Ultimately, I think most would agree, that if a "mild" hybrid happens to get better fuel economy than a "full" hybrid of comparable size, it's probably better even if the technology is "inferior" in some sense. Of course, that's going to become quite complicated when plug-ins hit the scene, presumably with no real plan to address their burden on electrical power generation or the fuels involved in that....
I appreciate Honda's (and Toyota's for that matter) effort to push the envelope with these hybrids, but the real home run will be making cars with this technology that get 35+ mpg that offer sufficient seating and comfort to accommodate the travel needs of a larger number of people.
Could you imagine an older or slightly infirmed person getting in and out of that vehicle or anyone driving it for 360+ mile trips?
Could you imagine an older or slightly infirmed person getting in and out of that vehicle or anyone driving it for 360+ mile trips?
I don't know of very many people that need to regularly carry more than 5 people. For that matter, I don't know very many people that spend more than a fraction of their driving time alone in their car. Don't you think that these cars already cover the needs of 90% of the driving public?
As far as comfort, the car might be impractical for someone in a wheelchair, but it really isn't anymore difficult to get in and out of than a Buick, and easier than climbing up into an SUV.
I know a couple salespeople who spend days at a time in their Prius. One couple I know own a Ford Taurus and a Prius, and choose to drive cross country and from Boston to Florida regularly in their Prius. I asked the wife and she said she thinks it's quite comfortable, and she just spent 24 hours straight in it driving to Florida for Thanksgiving.
The Insight's a heck of a lot better looking than the Prius (no shock there; my personal tastes always tend toward Hondas over Toyotas), but I still don't like the overall shape. It's still kind of ugly...why can't they make a car with the same specs as this, but shaped like a normal car!?
Sorry if I missed this... but while we were on the topic of the IMA mild or serial hybrid system that Honda has used...
One advantage had been that Honda hybrids could use a manual transmission, unlike Toyota hybrids (since the gearing of an electric engine was always in use). Anyway, from a fun-to-drive perspective, this made a huge difference to me (pushing me in the direction of high efficiency diesels, for that matter).
Now, IIRC, the newest iterations of the Honda Hybrids don't have a MT option anymore -- the 2009 Civic Hybrid for instance is only available with a CVT.
Is the new Insight likely to be CVT only? I really don't care for CVT's... I know, waah, waah.... but ... at least direct injection turbodiesels are fun to drive.
One advantage had been that Honda hybrids could use a manual transmission, unlike Toyota hybrids (since the gearing of an electric engine was always in use). Anyway, from a fun-to-drive perspective, this made a huge difference to me (pushing me in the direction of high efficiency diesels, for that matter).
Now, IIRC, the newest iterations of the Honda Hybrids don't have a MT option anymore -- the 2009 Civic Hybrid for instance is only available with a CVT.
Is the new Insight likely to be CVT only? I really don't care for CVT's... I know, waah, waah.... but ... at least direct injection turbodiesels are fun to drive.
Because the idea behind hybrids is still to get the best possible mileage. This shape is currently the best option for low drag coefficient and passenger comfort. Just like almost all cars looked like the "melted bean" shape of the Taurus back in the late '80's and 90's, more and more cars will probably adopt variations on this newer shape until something better gets engineered.
Thank you sooooooo much for explaining that! I've been wondering for a long time why they make hybrids that shape. haha
Don't get too comfy with the gas prices. They're expected to go back to $3.50 by summer of '09.
As for where i got the 70MPG figure... I read it in a news article. I'll try to find it. Hold on.
EDIT: HERE it is. It says it gets 68mpg highway.
I bet you are one of those people who also believed that price per barrel this time around would be around $250 as predicted by so many "analysts" during last summer
Reality is that as long as investors will keep oil futures out of hedge funds (and it doesn't look like oil is a hot commodity right now nor will it be anytime soon), you can be sure that price per barrel will not reach $100 any time soon. Given current world economic situation and grim forecasts, gasoline in USA will not go up to $3.50 any time soon. The only people I feel sorry about is the ones who traded in their SUVs for little puny Civics and such during last summer, not only did they get ripped off at trade off but also lost a lot in comfort.And as far as the new Honda is concerned, it's a nice car for what it is but I prefer the Chevrolet Volts technology and design.
The Ford Fusion hybrid is also coming in early 2009. Should be capable of 50+ MPG.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-neil19-2008dec19,0,1742816.story
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-neil19-2008dec19,0,1742816.story