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2009 Honda Insight Hybrid (70 mpg). The Prius for the rest of us.

blitzkrieg79 said:
The only people I feel sorry about is the ones who traded in their SUVs for little puny Civics and such during last summer, not only did they get ripped off at trade off but also lost a lot in comfort.
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Pffft. I don't feel sorry for them. Most ppl who have "suburban assault vehicles" (SAVs) have no need for them. Unless you have a large family/family who does a lot of sports or other activities or have a job that requires big trucks (construction, TV News, etc.) You don't need a SUV. IMO, they should pass a law taxing ppl who have SUVs. (say... $200+ a year?) I can't tell you how many moms I see driving their huge ass "SAVs" when they're just going grocery shopping or at the mall.

*waits to be flamed*

note: i'm talking about Hummers, Chevy Suburbans etc. Not Mini vans or similar cars.
 
mkrishnan said:
I'll be curious to see how that turns out. The Mazda6/Fusion/global midsize platform is fantastic.
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Likewise. The writer of that story was lamenting Ford's bad timing, but oil prices could easily be on the rise again next year. If so, Ford might be positioned to have a real hit on its hands.
 
IJ Reilly said:
Likewise. The writer of that story was lamenting Ford's bad timing, but oil prices could easily be on the rise again next year. If so, Ford might be positioned to have a real hit on its hands.
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Actually, the Ford Fusion with the new 2.5-liter I-4 and six-speed automatic will also be a hot seller. I've read that version is capable of 32 mpg highway based on the EPA 2008 test, which is a much more stringent test than the older EPA test.
 
cube said:
Because of their new stop-and-restart engine. They are spending 1 billion in fuel efficiency.
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Speaking of which, Mazda recently demonstrated a new engine technology called Smart Idle Stop System (SISS), which is simpler than other engine stop systems. Since Ford has technical exchange agreements with Mazda we could see this system on new Ford models over the next few years. Can you imagine the new Ford Fiesta with the 1.6-liter I-4, SISS and the next six-speed Powershift dual-clutch transmission? Can you say EPA 2008 city rating of 34 mpg and highway rating of 41 mpg? :D
 
mkrishnan said:
I'll be curious to see how that turns out. The Mazda6/Fusion/global midsize platform is fantastic.
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But the Fusion isn't quite on the global platform, it however will be next time round ... which means no more US 1-2 inch stretch behind the front seats. And maybe the global platform roofline.

Come over like the Contour did at first, on the global platform with the common rear seat legroom problems -- though it'll likely get the Contour's later fixes immediately (aka, more legroom via sculpted front seatbacks, and sculpted rear seats to add the inches.)

Should be common rather soon to get the global platforms without the US version stretching and massaging the vehicle into their own unique version for 1-2 billion.
 
Sun Baked said:
Should be common rather soon to get the global platforms without the US version stretching and massaging the vehicle into their own unique version for 1-2 billion.
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Hope so ... they always make the car worse in the process... and it is true, while I thought the current Fusion was pretty adequate, pretty much everything that differed from the first gen Mazda6 was a decrement to the car and not an improvement. OTOH, the second gen Mazda6 is just too big. Or at least, I will definitely not buy a car that big, as beautiful as it seems to be.
 
IJ Reilly said:
The writer says he got 52 without major effort in mixed driving. Says so right in the article.
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I don't believe him; it doesn't sound like he drove it much at all -- only 50 miles apparently, and it sounded like he was making an effort to feather the throttle and take advantage of hills and such. He has that one paragraph about actually driving the car, and the rest of the article talks about the technical aspects of the car. Jalopnik and Autoblog both managed in the 40s, with a lot of effort, and Jalopnik said they don't think most people could even replicate their 43.8 number -- which was higher than what Ford themselves had done. Really, what do you think is more likely? If those two journalists and Ford only managed in the low 40s, I seriously doubt that LATimes article. I predict most people will be lucky to ever see 40mpg in normal driving in the Fusion Hybrid. Still better than the Camry.
 
I think a lot of the reporters count on the trip computer and instant mileage for MPG figures.

I've always liked doing it by actually driving, filling up the tank, and using a calculator.

But alas, the 4 function calculator may confuse them.
 
The thing I don't understand is how my mid '80's Honda CRX got 40-50 mpg with traditional technology, was a blast to drive and had a good size cargo area, yet these cars barely beat it's fuel efficiency.
 
mrogers said:
I don't believe him; it doesn't sound like he drove it much at all -- only 50 miles apparently, and it sounded like he was making an effort to feather the throttle and take advantage of hills and such. He has that one paragraph about actually driving the car, and the rest of the article talks about the technical aspects of the car. Jalopnik and Autoblog both managed in the 40s, with a lot of effort, and Jalopnik said they don't think most people could even replicate their 43.8 number -- which was higher than what Ford themselves had done. Really, what do you think is more likely? If those two journalists and Ford only managed in the low 40s, I seriously doubt that LATimes article. I predict most people will be lucky to ever see 40mpg in normal driving in the Fusion Hybrid. Still better than the Camry.
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Yeah, he's probably a liar. Only possible explanation.
 
IJ Reilly said:
Yeah, he's probably a liar. Only possible explanation.
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Man, aren't we defensive! ;)

I probably should have been clearer that I don't believe what he said is accurate. And all the other reports seem to support that. It was some shallow journalism to report 50+ mpg after only 50 miles of driving, a lot of which sounded like coasting down hills; the fact that his number was so much higher than Ford's ratings should have been a red flag to that reporter that he might want to spend a little more time verifying facts before writing an article. But he sensationalized it to get a good headline. Whatever...the point is, the Fusion should be good for 40mpg in mixed normal driving, and that's better than other sedan-shaped hybrids.
 
I've been reading Dan Neil's automotive columns for years. He's quite thorough, not shallow or sensationalistic. If he was, I would not be reading his columns.

This car hasn't even been officially rated by the EPA so I think it's too early to take sides on who's numbers are more realistic or accurate.
 
mrogers said:
Not quite 50...Autoblog and Jalopnik drove one for awhile last week, and with really, REALLY crazy conservative driving they managed around 43 mpg. Normal driving will probably be in the 30s. Still pretty good.
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The official Fusion Hybrid numbers are out... they're quite good. As you mentioned, numerous reports report doing better (which is a pleasant change from the earliest hybrids and the old EPA system, where it was relatively rare to hear of people who actually achieve sticker mileage).

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/23/ford-fusion-hybrid-is-rated-at-41-mpg/?hp

LOS ANGELES — Official fuel-economy ratings from the Environmental Protection Agency are in for the new 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid, and Ford says it is “America’s most fuel-efficient midsize car with a certified 41 m.p.g rating in the city and 36 m.p.g. on the highway.”
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Ugly. And there really is no reason for it, or for the Prius to be butt-ugly for that matter.

There are cars just as aerodynamic but much easier on the eyes. The Mercedes Benz S-Class comes to mind, with a Cd of 0.26, the same as the Prius.

So IMO it all has to do with (ironically) apperance. Make it look like a space-mobile and it's easily recognizable as a hybrid, and feel-good soccer moms can go about their days proving to the world that they care about sustainability without having to flap their gums all day long.
 
When I saw the concept photos for the new Insight I was amazed at how it looked, but after seeing all of the revisions that took place from then until the actual model severely disappoints me. I much prefer the Prius's design, not that it's any sort of beauty to be marveled at.

I'll stick w/ Lexus and Cadillac, thank you very much...

FX120 said:
and feel-good soccer moms can go about their days proving to the world that they care about sustainability without having to flap their gums all day long.
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This made me laugh. I agree with you completely though.
 
IJ Reilly said:
I've been reading Dan Neil's automotive columns for years. He's quite thorough, not shallow or sensationalistic. If he was, I would not be reading his columns.
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I have also read a few numbers in the 40's with regards to mpg.


I guess he could be keen on hypermiling, and have far better technique than the typical automotive journalist. However, I'm guessing he's just wrong this time. ;) He didn't drive it enough anyway.
 
FX120 said:
There are cars just as aerodynamic but much easier on the eyes. The Mercedes Benz S-Class comes to mind, with a Cd of 0.26, the same as the Prius.
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Yeah cuz everyone can afford a Mercedes Benz.:rolleyes:

And IMO, Mercedes are the most ugly cars ever built. I'd pick a chevy over those things.
 
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