2009 Jetta TDI

[SactoGuy18]

yg17,

Alas, you may not be able to get a new VW GTI soon--I believe VW has stopped producing the old model because a new GTI based on the Mk. VI Golf is coming late this fall.

 

[yg17]

yg17,

Alas, you may not be able to get a new VW GTI soon--I believe VW has stopped producing the old model because a new GTI based on the Mk. VI Golf is coming late this fall.

The 09 MKVs are still in production. In fact, the dealer I bought my first GTI from has one on their lot that's almost identical to my old car, save for cloth seats instead of leather. Should insurance decide to total it, that car is mine

 

[mkrishnan]

So which Jetta/Bora/Golf models in the US right now are Mk V's and which ones are Mk VI designs? Is everything in 2009 fifth generation?

Also again with buying advice type questions... do Jettas typically sell for list at this point or are they very negotiable? Edmunds' TMV indicates that people are paying list price for the 2009 TDI in my location, at least.

If they are not negotiable, I would think I'd rather custom order (so, for instance, I can order rear side airbags, which I would doubt I'd be lucky enough to find as an option on a Jetta TDI with an M6 trans).

And so if I go down that road, does anyone happen to know what the rough calendar is, in terms of when it becomes too late to custom order a 2009 and too early to custom order a 2010, if there is such a time period?

 

[yg17]

So which Jetta/Bora/Golf models in the US right now are Mk V's and which ones are Mk VI designs? Is everything in 2009 fifth generation?

Also again with buying advice type questions... do Jettas typically sell for list at this point or are they very negotiable? Edmunds' TMV indicates that people are paying list price for the 2009 TDI in my location, at least.

If they are not negotiable, I would think I'd rather custom order (so, for instance, I can order rear side airbags, which I would doubt I'd be lucky enough to find as an option on a Jetta TDI with an M6 trans).

And so if I go down that road, does anyone happen to know what the rough calendar is, in terms of when it becomes too late to custom order a 2009 and too early to custom order a 2010, if there is such a time period?

Right now all Jettas and Golfs sold in the US are MKVs. I don't believe the MKVIs will be here anytime soon, maybe for the 2010 model year, or it might be 2011, I don't know for sure. But all 2009s are current generation.

The TDIs are very much in demand right now, so they sell close to sticker price, as do most cars when demand is pretty high. Regular gasoline Jettas have more room to negotiate due to lower demand.

And I don't believe there is such a period when it becomes too late for 09s and too early for 10s. I think it just changes, like one day you can order 09s, next day, you can order 10s, but I could be wrong. To answer that question, and any other questions you have about the sales process, I strongly recommend registering on VW Vortex and posting your question in this thread. Paul, one of the salesmen who posts in that thread is extremely helpful and will be able to give you an accurate answer to your question. Plus, they can search all dealers in an area for a car with the specs you want to see if anyone has it before you order and wait for it (and having had to wait 3 months for my GTI which I ordered, I know from experience it's a long wait )

 

[mkrishnan]

Thanks, I will check that forum out! There's actually a pretty good chance I will wait for 2010 models anyway -- I'm moving from IL to MI in the summer, and since the new location (for two years, for a residency) means that I'll be driving at least some, I want to replace my 6 (I actually seriously thought about selling it and just getting an iGo or Zipcars account in Chicago, but in Grand Rapids these aren't possibilities).

I'll check out that forum, though. I'm always really skeptical about dealer inventory searches, although perhaps VW dealers are better than dealers for the domestics and the Japanese. I'm very picky, and it seems a lot of time for dealers hard to understand (although I do sympathize with the financial aspect of their motivations) that I would rather wait 3 months quite happily than get the car in the wrong color or not have rear seat airbags or whatever. But VW is definitely a culture, and it's one I'm not that familiar with, since the entry of this clean diesel Jetta is really the first time I've seriously wanted a VW....

So I'll go do some learning over there.

 

[SteveMobs]

Diesel FTW! Always.

 

[bobfitz14]

Subaru is the the only Japanese company that I am aware of that is working on bringing a diesel engine to the US, I think in 2009 or something.

I haven't heard of any domestic or japanese makers considering it.

my mom drives a 2008 Subaru Outback (i don't remember the model at the moment but it's one of the more pricey ones, but not the one with the hood scoop) and it averages around 26 MPG on gas which is good because she had a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee before that and it was getting like 16 MPG, i wanted it to be my first car though cause it was awesome but she got rid of it.

and i also saw a few months ago that Subaru was bringing a diesel engine to the US soon, hopefully that lives up to what everyone is thinking about this new Jetta which i also like for the record.

 

[mkrishnan]

and i also saw a few months ago that Subaru was bringing a diesel engine to the US soon, hopefully that lives up to what everyone is thinking about this new Jetta which i also like for the record.

I think in the spirit of keeping it real, a diesel Subaru is going to get at best about 30-35MPG highway unless they drop AWD.... There's no way, given the weight that Subarus carry around that they're going to be posting highway mileage in the 40s purely by using any diesel engine that would provide enough torque and horsepower for American demands.

Don't get me wrong, though, I do like Subarus... there's just a reality of AWD and heavy cars like that....

I hope we see more clean diesel launches on the car side, though. Clearly the US automakers have been selling diesel in trucks for years, and they're committed to clean diesel in truck engines. But I think it makes a lot of sense in cars, and I want to see more of it. Maybe even some kind of diesel hybrid electric design -- for instance for Subaru, a diesel FWD + electric motor rear-wheel assist might work out really well.

 

[bobfitz14]

I think in the spirit of keeping it real, a diesel Subaru is going to get at best about 30-35MPG highway unless they drop AWD.... There's no way, given the weight that Subarus carry around that they're going to be posting highway mileage in the 40s purely by using any diesel engine that would provide enough torque and horsepower for American demands.

Don't get me wrong, though, I do like Subarus... there's just a reality of AWD and heavy cars like that....

I hope we see more clean diesel launches on the car side, though. Clearly the US automakers have been selling diesel in trucks for years, and they're committed to clean diesel in truck engines. But I think it makes a lot of sense in cars, and I want to see more of it. Maybe even some kind of diesel hybrid electric design -- for instance for Subaru, a diesel FWD + electric motor rear-wheel assist might work out really well.

i agree, it would be difficult to get outstanding mileage with an AWD Subaru and given their weight, in my mom's specific case she does need the AWD badly because of where we live, it's not just like a add on that some people don't need on cars, she does.

and as for the FWD + electric motor rear wheel assist idea, that would be an interesting design.

 

[mkrishnan]

and as for the FWD + electric motor rear wheel assist idea, that would be an interesting design.

Early in talk of low storage requirement hybrids, there was a lot of discussion of this, and numerous prototypes -- Chrysler particularly advocated for it, e.g. as a way to make trucks much more fuel efficient and still have 4WD or AWD. I don't know if there were specific reasons it hasn't come to market yet, though... that would make it infeasible for a company like Subaru.

 

[SactoGuy18]

By the way, I read on another forum that when the Mk. VI Rabbits (neé Golf) arrive this fall, the 2.0-liter 140 bhp turbodiesel engine will be available as an option in all 50 states.

VW recently confirmed they will also sell the Mk. V Polo in the USA market. It will be interesting to see if VW will certify the 1.6-liter TDI engine rated at around 100 bhp (SAE 08/04 net) for the US market; if they do, the new Polo could get the type of fuel economy normally associated with a second-generation Toyota Prius!

 

[steve2112]

I hope we see more clean diesel launches on the car side, though. Clearly the US automakers have been selling diesel in trucks for years, and they're committed to clean diesel in truck engines. But I think it makes a lot of sense in cars, and I want to see more of it. Maybe even some kind of diesel hybrid electric design -- for instance for Subaru, a diesel FWD + electric motor rear-wheel assist might work out really well.

I've been preaching about diesel electric hybrids for years. Hybrids tend to excel in city driving, where the the electric motor can kick in and run the car. Diesels are the kings of highway mileage. It seems like a natural match, yet nobody has produced one. I remember reading a while back that BMW was working on one, and I believe VW may be working on one.

As for the the electric motor rear wheel assist in AWD vehicles: Lexus uses this model in the RX hybrid, so it would work for Subaru, if packaging doesn't cause a problem. I think it would greatly help out the Subies.

 

[Mr. Giver '94]

Does VW meet California Emission Standards??? I know the Golf TDI was not available for sale in CA. They were only allowed if you moved into the state and already owned one or if you bought it somewhere else and then registered it in CA.


My friend's mom has a Golf TDI and really likes it, but be careful because some VWs are known to be very expensive and not very reliable. (new Passat)

I know that the Mercedes BlueTech diesel meets CA standards now but I wasn't sure about VW.

 

[yg17]

I've been preaching about diesel electric hybrids for years. Hybrids tend to excel in city driving, where the the electric motor can kick in and run the car. Diesels are the kings of highway mileage. It seems like a natural match, yet nobody has produced one. I remember reading a while back that BMW was working on one, and I believe VW may be working on one.

As for the the electric motor rear wheel assist in AWD vehicles: Lexus uses this model in the RX hybrid, so it would work for Subaru, if packaging doesn't cause a problem. I think it would greatly help out the Subies.

I believe VW had a concept MKV Golf hybrid that used a combination of a diesel and electric motor.

I haven't heard about BMW's diesel/electric hybrid, but I hear they were working on a car that has two engines, one is a hydrogen-powered one, and the other was either gasoline or diesel, but the point is you use the hydrogen engine whenever you can fill up with hydrogen, but if a hydrogen fueling station isn't available, it can run off the regular motor. Not quite a hybrid in the typical sense, but that's an excellent concept and IMO, what I think is needed to get us off oil. Allow a car that runs on both to give us time to make hydrogen fueling stations as ubiquitous as gas stations, since no one is going to build a hydrogen car when there's nowhere to fuel it, and no one's going to build a hydrogen fueling station when there's no one driving hydrogen cars. It's a catch 22, but I digress.

Does VW meet California Emission Standards??? I know the Golf TDI was not available for sale in CA. They were only allowed if you moved into the state and already owned one or if you bought it somewhere else and then registered it in CA.


My friend's mom has a Golf TDI and really likes it, but be careful because some VWs are known to be very expensive and not very reliable. (new Passat)

I know that the Mercedes BlueTech diesel meets CA standards now but I wasn't sure about VW.

I think in 2006, VW had a Jetta TDI that didn't meet CA standards, and in 2007 and 2008 the Jetta TDIs weren't sold in the states, and in 2009, it's a completely redesigned engine that meets standards in all states. I could be wrong though, I'm not up to speed on VWs diesel lineup. Best thing to do would be to stop by a VW dealer in CA and ask, I hope they would know if they sold them or not

My VW was great. I had no problems, except my Sirius radio tuner crapped out which the dealer replaced under warranty with no hassle whatsoever.

 

[SactoGuy18]

Starting in the 2009 model year, VW certified their 140 bhp 2.0-liter I-4 turbodiesel engine for the USA market without needing an expensive urea gas injection system found on BMW and Mercedes-Benz diesel-powered cars. It is now available on the Jetta four-door sedan and five-door Sportwagen models; VW will offer this engine on the next-generation Rabbit based on the Mk. VI Golf this coming fall.

 

[bobfitz14]

Starting in the 2009 model year, VW certified their 140 bhp 2.0-liter I-4 turbodiesel engine for the USA market without needing an expensive urea gas injection system found on BMW and Mercedes-Benz diesel-powered cars. It is now available on the Jetta four-door sedan and five-door Sportwagen models; VW will offer this engine on the next-generation Rabbit based on the Mk. VI Golf this coming fall.

...wanna cite your source? or are you a salesman?!

 

[steve2112]

For what it's worth, Motor Trend has reviews of the Subie diesels. One of them is coming, the Legacy. Right now, the Forester may or may not be. Both articles are testing European models, but I believe the US models will be pretty much the same.

Legacy: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0801_subaru_boxer_turbodiesel_first_drive/index.html

Forester: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/112_0809_2010_subaru_forester_diesel/index.html

Also: In another MT article on the new Touareg diesel model, they mention that the V6 diesel enginer in the Touareg is 50 state legal, so I see no reason why the Jetta TDI model wouldn't be legal. Both are part of VW's "clean diesel" line.

 

[iCantwait]

well if it has the same engine as the 4-motion passat i would recommend avoiding that as mine is being serviced every 3 weeks. finally got rid of it and got a golf sports!!
get that baby loose

 

[SactoGuy18]

...wanna cite your source? or are you a salesman?!

I was checking on the VW Vortex forum and someone was able to get preliminary dealer information on the 2010 Rabbit based on the Mk. VI Golf now on sale in Europe. One of the models is called the Rabbit GTD, powered by the 140 bhp TDI engine.

 

[mkrishnan]

...wanna cite your source? or are you a salesman?!

Most of that is either widely publicly available (that the new Jetta TDI is 50-states emissions approved and doesn't use urea injection), subjective (VW themselves claimed somewhere, I think, that it might not have been possible for them to get their emissions target without urea had they been working on a bigger car, and the TDI has rather a lot less horsepower, I think, than those Mercedes), or widely speculated (the Rabbit part).

EDIT: Steve, thanks for the info re the Lexus RX hybrids. I didn't know that's the way they worked, because I don't pay that much attention to SUVs. Nice to know it actually came to market.

 

[Sun Baked]

I was checking on the VW Vortex forum and someone was able to get preliminary dealer information on the 2010 Rabbit based on the Mk. VI Golf now on sale in Europe. One of the models is called the Rabbit GTD, powered by the 140 bhp TDI engine.

Announced as a North American TDI, confirmed for Canada at least.

But Canada has been getting more Diesel VW choices than the US.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/February2009/11/c7575.html

Volkswagen showed a 5-door European version of the new Golf with a 2.0 litre TDI Diesel engine at the 2009 CIAS to announce and confirm that it will bring its award-winning 2.0 litre 4-cylinder turbocharged common rail TDI Clean Diesel engine currently offered in the Jetta TDI Clean Diesel and the Jetta Wagon TDI Clean Diesel already on-sale in Canada for the new Golf in Canada early in its product life cycle. This TDI Clean Diesel engine produces 140 HP and 236 lb-ft of torque with a fuel consumption of 4.8 litres per 100 kilometres (L / 100 km) in a 6-speed manual version on the highway, and 6.8 L / 100 km in the city. It is expected, like the Jetta TDI Clean Diesel, that the new Golf TDI Clean Diesel will easily manage over 1,100 km of highway driving with one tank of fuel. Volkswagen is also the first manufacturer to certify B5 Biodiesel fuel for its TDI Clean Diesel engines in Canada, allowing consumers to reduce CO2 emissions by an additional 5 percent.

Sucks that the Jetta Sportwagen looks like it is now EOLd and being replaced by the Golf Sportwagen, and the Rabbit dies in Canada in 2010.

 

[mkrishnan]

So can anyone who's been following the new Rabbit closely comment on whether the next gen 5-door Rabbit/Golf iteration is likely to have significantly better vehicle dynamics / chassis stuff than the 2010 Jetta?

Also, how available is this B5 biodiesel in Canada? Is this something you can actually get at a gas station?

 

[iJohnHenry]

Wow, talk about a whole lot of ***** via Google.

But I finally was able to glean this site.

http://www.greyrocksmedia.com/biodiesel/canadiannetwork/availability.htm

 

[Nukemkb]

It's not a hybrid, but dam, it looks nice! Diesel fuel is down - looks like a winner!

 

[drlunanerd]

So can anyone who's been following the new Rabbit closely comment on whether the next gen 5-door Rabbit/Golf iteration is likely to have significantly better vehicle dynamics / chassis stuff than the 2010 Jetta?

The Golf (Rabbit) Mark VI is not significantly different chassis and suspension-wise. VW have however made noticeable improvements to interior quality, cabin noise levels and overall refinement. It's a good improvement over the Mark V. Personally I wouldn't drop the coin on a new Jetta at the moment, but I don't know when it's due to be updated for the North American market - I'd expect soon given it's a major seller?

BTW VW are already testing the Mark VII - ETA in 3 years.