Diesel emissions are pretty restrictive - anyone heard of any more stringent regulations in the future?
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2009 Jetta TDI
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I saw an MKVI GTI in person when I was at the Autostadt in Wolfsburg a couple weeks ago and it does have a nice interior, but I think the MKV exterior is so much better, I'm not a huge fan of the MKVI. The MKV interior is still extremely nice and quiet, and I personally wouldn't wait for the MKVIs, especially if you need a new car sooner rather than later.
My understanding of a snapshot of the US policy in comparison to the Euro policy on emissions and why the Jetta and other diesels disappeared from the market is that basically, in Europe, diesel cars had different regulations in some aspects of emissions than gas cars that were generally more lenient in those problem areas for diesel (I could be totally wrong about this), whereas in the US, diesel cars were expected to comply with CO2, NOX, particulate, etc emissions standards set for gasoline cars, which they did not, until the fairly advanced emissions technologies like you see on this and some of those newer diesel cars from other OEMs came out.
So the US emissions requirements will continue to slowly ratchet up just as they have been over the past 2-3 decades, with LEV significantly reducing the emissions from pre-LEV cars and likewise for LEV-II. Probably some kind of 50 state emissions requirement that looks something like PZEV will eventually hit the market.
Thanks! I firmly believe diesels could be key to the future of fuel efficient cars, as long as the US doesn't "emission" them into oblivion.
Turbo direct injection of gas cars seems to be aiming for a 15-20% increase in fuel economy.
If they don't use it to increase HP and go for fuel economy, the gassers might have some life.
And a small engine used to directly drive a gen set with no link to the drive wheels, it might not matter whether it is gas or diesel -- just which ends up better in the location it is mounted.
Nice! The name "pony motor" comes to mind. One to charge the electric motor, but not to run the vehicle...
I don't think that's quite fair as a characterization... emissions are really important, and the kinds of diesel emissions that were a sticking point (in fairness another sticking point was the transition of the US to low sulfur diesel that was necessary as a predicate to pretty much any low emissions diesel car technology working) -- the kinds of emissions, especially the particulate emissions, that were a sticking point, have repeatedly been shown to cause public health problems like increased asthma incidence in urban environments.
Also in defense of the US, the US emissions requirements pushed the development of a fair amount of all this great diesel emissions technology that allowed the TDI to come back to the market.
Oops! did not mean it was not obligated to follow the law, but that it was simply for the electric motor only! Still has to meet regulations...
I like the top one, the MKV better. Just my (100% biased) opinion
That's a beauty! Many generations from my 1988 GTI 16V that I drove for 10 years. Loved that car!!!
The reason why VW will offer the 140 bhp TDI engine on both the Jetta and Golf models is simple: it meets the current EPA Tier 2 Bin 5 emissions certification without the need to inject urea gas into the exhaust stream to reduce NOx emissions.
However, Ricardo in Great Britain showed recently a turbodiesel engine with a very advanced exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system that cuts the diesel emissions so low it could even meet the CARB AT-PZEV (circa EPA Tier 2 Bin 3) standard without needing urea gas injection! (Essentially, we're talking emissions levels more akin to a hybrid car like a Toyota Prius.) This enormous breakthrough--especially if VW licenses the technology--could make it possible for VW to increase its diesel offerings for the US market, which means every VW model from the Polo all the way up to the CC and Passat could get turbodiesel engines with exhaust emissions cleaner than most gasoline-fuelled vehicles. Imagine a US-market VW Polo a few years from now going from downtown San Francisco, CA to downtown San Diego, CA on a single fillup.
However, Ricardo in Great Britain showed recently a turbodiesel engine with a very advanced exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system that cuts the diesel emissions so low it could even meet the CARB AT-PZEV (circa EPA Tier 2 Bin 3) standard without needing urea gas injection!
(Essentially, we're talking emissions levels more akin to a hybrid car like a Toyota Prius.) This enormous breakthrough--especially if VW licenses the technology--could make it possible for VW to increase its diesel offerings for the US market, which means every VW model from the Polo all the way up to the CC and Passat could get turbodiesel engines with exhaust emissions cleaner than most gasoline-fuelled vehicles. Imagine a US-market VW Polo a few years from now going from downtown San Francisco, CA to downtown San Diego, CA on a single fillup.
However, Ricardo in Great Britain showed recently a turbodiesel engine with a very advanced exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system that cuts the diesel emissions so low it could even meet the CARB AT-PZEV (circa EPA Tier 2 Bin 3) standard without needing urea gas injection!
I'll be very curious if this technology can be made manufacturable. That's a very impressive feat.
I've read in the past they've even been talking about Bin 2 performance levels (link). Expanding into even Bin 4 would be a big improvement in the sense that all the particulates have to be undetectably low, as I understand it.On a related note, above and beyond the tax credit in the US for the TDI Jetta, I'm really glad that this vehicle is getting environmental praise. With better emissions performance, diesel has the potential of being a full solution to both the sustainable fuel / foreign dependency issue and the emissions issue in a way that even plug-in gas/electric hybrids cannot.
I would love a diesel hybrid right about now.
My buddy used to get bio-diesel into his TDI every now and then. He lives in Columbus, OH, and I don't think it was that close to him, so he didn't do it very often.
My buddy used to get bio-diesel into his TDI every now and then. He lives in Columbus, OH, and I don't think it was that close to him, so he didn't do it very often.
I'll be very curious if this technology can be made manufacturable. That's a very impressive feat.
In fact, Ricardo has been running a prototype recently that "out of the box" is EPA Tier 2 Bin 5 compliant. Using a modern catalytic converter, Ricardo thinks they could achieve CARB AT-PZEV emissions levels fairly easily. If Ricardo succeeds we could see a flood of diesel-powered cars in the USA that are 25-30% more fuel efficient than their gasoline-fuelled counterparts but emit just as little exhaust emissions as the latest clean gasoline engines!
In fact, Ricardo has been running a prototype recently that "out of the box" is EPA Tier 2 Bin 5 compliant. Using a modern catalytic converter, Ricardo thinks they could achieve CARB AT-PZEV emissions levels fairly easily. If Ricardo succeeds we could see a flood of diesel-powered cars in the USA that are 25-30% more fuel efficient than their gasoline-fuelled counterparts but emit just as little exhaust emissions as the latest clean gasoline engines!
That would be great!!
So I've been continuing to consider a 2010 Jetta (or more likely) Golf TDI. I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the following:
All other issues aside, consider the Mini Cooper, base engine w/ MT. The EPA (new formula) ratings are 28/37. The 09 Jetta TDI is rated at 30/41, to use as comparison numbers, assuming there isn't any major difference between that and the 2010 Golf.
So I know that many Jetta owners are doing substantially better than the 41mpg highway rating... in my typical usage profile, with gasoline engine cars, I've always gotten combined mileage right around the highway number, doing as much as 10% better than the highway rating in combined driving when my profile was mostly highway (for reference, I get about 30-31 mpg on my Mazda6, which has a highway rating under the new formula of 29), even now with it being 6 years old, when I drive mostly highway.
So my question is, should I expect (based on whatever idiosyncracies the EPA estimation system has for the diesel engine in the Jetta) that the difference in fuel economy between a Mini and a Jetta TDI would be pretty well represented by the 4MPG difference between the two, or should I expect that the difference would be broader (favoring the Jetta/Golf even more)?
Incidentally, the carbon footprint is estimated at slightly lower as well, 5.7 (Mini) vs. 6.2 (Jetta) tons/yr, but anyway....
All other issues aside, consider the Mini Cooper, base engine w/ MT. The EPA (new formula) ratings are 28/37. The 09 Jetta TDI is rated at 30/41, to use as comparison numbers, assuming there isn't any major difference between that and the 2010 Golf.
So I know that many Jetta owners are doing substantially better than the 41mpg highway rating... in my typical usage profile, with gasoline engine cars, I've always gotten combined mileage right around the highway number, doing as much as 10% better than the highway rating in combined driving when my profile was mostly highway (for reference, I get about 30-31 mpg on my Mazda6, which has a highway rating under the new formula of 29), even now with it being 6 years old, when I drive mostly highway.
So my question is, should I expect (based on whatever idiosyncracies the EPA estimation system has for the diesel engine in the Jetta) that the difference in fuel economy between a Mini and a Jetta TDI would be pretty well represented by the 4MPG difference between the two, or should I expect that the difference would be broader (favoring the Jetta/Golf even more)?
Incidentally, the carbon footprint is estimated at slightly lower as well, 5.7 (Mini) vs. 6.2 (Jetta) tons/yr, but anyway....
I have had my TDI for a while now and it is one of my favourite cars ever. I prefer to drive it day to day over my GTR the GTR gets more looks but the TDI just feels more roomy (I am quite tall though). Performance wise the TDI feels sluggish but that is just an attribute of the diesel but has superb handling. The car also feels really well made so if you are wanting a great car with amazing gas milage I say go for it.
What I found out is that TDI owners (a friend of mine has the last gen one) seem to change their driving habits to eek out more mileage.
I haven't been able to get any info on the 2010 TDI, have you?
I haven't been able to get any info on the 2010 TDI, have you?
My dealer expects them in around November. Otherwise, I found this... it's a really good overview, alhtough most of the stuff is not specific to the TDI and also I guess there's a speculative element to it.
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_how_to/a5/09_10_TDIdifferences.htm
In essence, the Jetta is a mildly refreshed version of 2009. The most interesting changes all have to do with the radio/comm/nav system -- the standard head unit is totally different and appears to have bluetooth integration, a touchscreen, and (finally) good iPod integration.
The the Golf has tons of changes as it rides on the new platform.
Thanks. Audi A3 TDI too?
It is interesting that with the collapse of the price of oil, diesel is cheaper than regular gasoline in most areas. I typically get the average combined mileage on my 2000 Sentra SE, and even if I get the official EPA combined estimate for the Jetta TDI, it would more than pay off compares to a non-TDI Jetta or my current vehicle in 3 years or so.
I have also been seeing more of them on the road, including the sportswagon, which, unfortunately, doesn't look very appealing
It is interesting that with the collapse of the price of oil, diesel is cheaper than regular gasoline in most areas. I typically get the average combined mileage on my 2000 Sentra SE, and even if I get the official EPA combined estimate for the Jetta TDI, it would more than pay off compares to a non-TDI Jetta or my current vehicle in 3 years or so.
I have also been seeing more of them on the road, including the sportswagon, which, unfortunately, doesn't look very appealing