2011 17" MBP supports 6Gbps SATA

[Hellhammer]

Hi,

So my new 2011 MBP 2.2ghz with a 500gb 7200rpm is arriving soon, plus 8th of RAM and a C300 256gb SSD from crucial, plus an Optibay inspired chassis from Hong Kong.

I mainly work with Windows VM's using Visual Studio and SQL Server BI stack. I was planning to park the SSD into the optical bay and put my VMs on it (they are in Trucrypt containers).

However I have been giving some consideration to putting the SSD (with OS X and VM Trucrypt continers)into the HDD bay and moving my large iTunes and iPhoto libraries, plus my personal data folders to the HDD in the optical bay.

The 2nd option is a lot more work and possibly more error prone.

I am not after super speed, this is only a DEV machine, we have servers and clusters for the serious work. I just need my VMs to be super responsive when loading, waking from hibernation, and loading SQL Server and Excel datasets into RAM.

I expect the elcheapo chassis from Hong kong will be of the 1.5 gbps variety, but will buy a quality version from MCE if it's warranted.

So after reading this thread, i am leaning towards the simple first option - SSD into the optical bay, but I am wondering if the Crucial SSD will function properly there.

Or if I should send the SSD back to crucial unopened and buy a more appropriate drive (no more than current £360 spend).

I haven't got the experience to do all the experimentation and associated builds so a prudent, straightforward plan is very desirable. I need to be up and running. I can change things later as this subject matures.

Thanks in advance. I think there is quite a lot of interest in this issue, particularly around the Crucial C300 and I am happy to share results.

Cheers
Firman

Definitely put the SSD in HD bay and move the HD to the ODD bay. It might take you 10 minutes more time but so what, you only do it once. Especially if you are investing on a SATA 6Gb/s SSD, it would be rather stupid to put it in ODD with SATA 3Gb/s. Plus, at least with Boot Camp, there are issues if the boot drive is in the ODD slot.

As for the Crucial C300, I would return it. It is much slower than the upcoming SATA 6Gb/s SSDs and it's not cheap either. Also, from what I've heard, since OS X lacks TRIM support, it may experience performance degradation. SandForce based drives don't suffer from this. OCZ Vertex 3 should start shipping next week in volume and you should be able to get 240GB for around 360£.

 

[smarty-s]

SATA 6Gb BUS with the Express Card Slot ????

Definitely put the SSD in HD bay and move the HD to the ODD bay. It might take you 10 minutes more time but so what, you only do it once. Especially if you are investing on a SATA 6Gb/s SSD, it would be rather stupid to put it in ODD with SATA 3Gb/s. Plus, at least with Boot Camp, there are issues if the boot drive is in the ODD slot.

As for the Crucial C300, I would return it. It is much slower than the upcoming SATA 6Gb/s SSDs and it's not cheap either. Also, from what I've heard, since OS X lacks TRIM support, it may experience performance degradation. SandForce based drives don't suffer from this. OCZ Vertex 3 should start shipping next week in volume and you should be able to get 240GB for around 360£.

So ....

The Optial Bay ist 3GB /S

The HD Slot 6GB/s

an what is about the Express Card Slot ??? ) Only the 17" model ?

it seems to be a 6GB/s slot .. ?

I have order a 17" macbook and a new Intel 510 250GB SSD ( is on my table .. ) but the macbook is in honkong ..... grrrrrr

cool ... look ... http://www.datoptic.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=204

with the HD bay and the expresscard we can get a Raid 0 with SSDs both with 6GB/S !????

anyone test it ???

http://www.datoptic.com/review/product/list/id/345/category/48/


sorry Iam Germ .... bad Englisch

 

[Naimfan]

It may well have been posted already, but the 13" MBP also supports 6 GBps SATA.

 

[firmansolutions]

Definitely put the SSD in HD bay and move the HD to the ODD bay. It might take you 10 minutes more time but so what, you only do it once. Especially if you are investing on a SATA 6Gb/s SSD, it would be rather stupid to put it in ODD with SATA 3Gb/s. Plus, at least with Boot Camp, there are issues if the boot drive is in the ODD slot.

As for the Crucial C300, I would return it. It is much slower than the upcoming SATA 6Gb/s SSDs and it's not cheap either. Also, from what I've heard, since OS X lacks TRIM support, it may experience performance degradation. SandForce based drives don't suffer from this. OCZ Vertex 3 should start shipping next week in volume and you should be able to get 240GB for around 360£.

Thanks for responding.

Re the Crucial SSD, its a CTFDDAC256MAG-1G1.002. I assume thats a revision 002 device. Anyway, the box says its SATA 6Gb/s (3Gb/s compatible) and features ATA-8 w/TRIM, SMART command support and Active Garbage Collection.

What is the new OCZ drive going ot have that improves on that, other than the SandForce controller (I believe the Crucial has Marvell)?

I am prepared to return it (not open yet), but is it really a slouch?

Cheers
Firman

 

[Hellhammer]

So ....

The Optial Bay ist 3GB /S

The HD Slot 6GB/s

an what is about the Express Card Slot ??? ) Only the 17" model ?

it seems to be a 6GB/s slot .. ?

I have order a 17" macbook and a new Intel 510 250GB SSD ( is on my table .. ) but the macbook is in honkong ..... grrrrrr

cool ... look ... http://www.datoptic.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=204

with the HD bay and the expresscard we can get a Raid 0 with SSDs both with 6GB/S !????

anyone test it ???

http://www.datoptic.com/review/product/list/id/345/category/48/


sorry Iam Germ .... bad Englisch

Depends on is the ExpressCard slot 1.2 or 2.0. 1.2 can provide up to 2.5Gb/s (312.5MB/s) while 2.0 can provide up to 5Gb/s (625MB/s). If it's 1.2, then then it's not much faster than SATA 3Gb/s but if it's 2.0, then a SATA 6Gb/s card would be able to run at full speed.

You will have better luck with Thunderbolt if you want blazing fast SSD experience, just wait for some devices to arrive. Anyway, two SSDs in RAID 0 does not increase the performance that much as random speeds do not scale up. It is quite rare that you need or can take advantage of +500MB/s sustained speeds.

Thanks for responding.

Re the Crucial SSD, its a CTFDDAC256MAG-1G1.002. I assume thats a revision 002 device. Anyway, the box says its SATA 6Gb/s (3Gb/s compatible) and features ATA-8 w/TRIM, SMART command support and Active Garbage Collection.

What is the new OCZ drive going ot have that improves on that, other than the SandForce controller (I believe the Crucial has Marvell)?

I am prepared to return it (not open yet), but is it really a slouch?

Cheers
Firman

Its maximum speeds are 355MB/s and 140MB/s while OCZ Vertex 3 provides up to 550MB/s and 500MB/s. It's not a bad drive but there are better ones just around the corner.

 

[firmansolutions]

how to backup when running 2 internal disks

Do any of you guys know the answer to this re backups

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1109341/

 

[johnsock]

Do any of you guys know the answer to this re backups

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1109341/

If you have a SSD as your main drive and a larger HDD in the optical bay, you can backup the SSD to the HDD, but it will not leave you as much space for storage. If you want both internal drives for storage, you can use an external drive connected via FireWire (or Thunderbolt) and backup both drives to one big external. I currently have two internal SSD in my MacBook Pro and I backup over the network to a shared drive using Time Machine. I also keep a bootable backup (updated weekly) on an external eSATA drive. I just plug in the external when it's time for backup, let it run, then put it away. If you have multiple partitions to backup it's not really much different.

 

[desantii]

I just got a new 13 inch macbook pro and installed a 120gb Intel 510 drive. Profiler shows 6gbps but negotiated only at 3gbps, is this correct? shouldn't it be 6gbps?

Vendor: Intel
Product: 6 Series Chipset
Link Speed: 6 Gigabit
Negotiated Link Speed: 3 Gigabit
Description: AHCI Version 1.30 Supported

INTEL SSDSC2MH120A2:

Capacity: 120.03 GB (120,034,123,776 bytes)
Model: INTEL SSDSC2MH120A2
Revision: PPG2
Serial Number: LNEL105500K1120CGN
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk0
Medium Type: Solid State
TRIM Support: No
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
Capacity: 209.7 MB (209,715,200 bytes)
Writable: Yes
BSD Name: disk0s1

It may well have been posted already, but the 13" MBP also supports 6 GBps SATA.

 

[Hellhammer]

I just got a new 13 inch macbook pro and installed a 120gb Intel 510 drive. Profiler shows 6gbps but negotiated only at 3gbps, is this correct? shouldn't it be 6gbps?

Vendor: Intel
Product: 6 Series Chipset
Link Speed: 6 Gigabit
Negotiated Link Speed: 3 Gigabit
Description: AHCI Version 1.30 Supported

INTEL SSDSC2MH120A2:

Capacity: 120.03 GB (120,034,123,776 bytes)
Model: INTEL SSDSC2MH120A2
Revision: PPG2
Serial Number: LNEL105500K1120CGN
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk0
Medium Type: Solid State
TRIM Support: No
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
Capacity: 209.7 MB (209,715,200 bytes)
Writable: Yes
BSD Name: disk0s1

You put it into the HD bay, right? Have you run any benchmarks to see is it running at 3Gb/s or 6Gb/s?

 

[Weaselboy]

I just got a new 13 inch macbook pro and installed a 120gb Intel 510 drive. Profiler shows 6gbps but negotiated only at 3gbps, is this correct? shouldn't it be 6gbps?

As Hellhammer mentioned, you should see a 6GB link if it is in the HD bay. The optical bay connection would only show 3GB though. Which bay do you have it installed in?

I just ordered the same SSD for delivery next week. Can you tell me if you are having any problems? Does the MBP wake from sleep okay?

 

[desantii]

Yes its on the HDD bay, the CD bay says 3.0gbps, link speed 1.5 gbps

As Hellhammer mentioned, you should see a 6GB link if it is in the HD bay. The optical bay connection would only show 3GB though. Which bay do you have it installed in?

I just ordered the same SSD for delivery next week. Can you tell me if you are having any problems? Does the MBP wake from sleep okay?

 

[heppuhei]

Huh, not good

>> just got a new 13 inch macbook pro and installed a 120gb Intel 510 drive. Profiler shows 6gbps but negotiated only at 3gbps, is this correct? shouldn't it be 6gbps?

Is the Intel 510 bad shopping? Why only 3Gbit/s

 

[Weaselboy]

Yes its on the HDD bay, the CD bay says 3.0gbps, link speed 1.5 gbps

Hmmm... that is odd. It should be 6gps. I saw a screen cap somewhere is a Crucial C300 in a new Macbook Pro and it showed a 6gps connection. The C300 uses an older version of the Marvel controller in the 510.

 

[Sjhonny]

I thought there were only two SATA devices in a macbook pro, so they'll probably only use the SATA ports 0 & 1 from the intel (northbridge) chipset, which are both 6.0 Gbps

 

[desantii]

Here is the full text. I laso tried in windows (has a dual partition and I ma getting 300mbs read and 210 in write) so definitely only 3gbps

Again this is on a 13 inch model

Intel 6 Series Chipset:

Vendor: Intel
Product: 6 Series Chipset
Link Speed: 6 Gigabit
Negotiated Link Speed: 3 Gigabit
Description: AHCI Version 1.30 Supported

INTEL SSDSC2MH120A2:

Capacity: 120.03 GB (120,034,123,776 bytes)
Model: INTEL SSDSC2MH120A2
Revision: PPG2
Serial Number: LNEL105500K1120CGN
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk0
Medium Type: Solid State
TRIM Support: No
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
Capacity: 209.7 MB (209,715,200 bytes)
Writable: Yes
BSD Name: disk0s1
OSX:
Capacity: 41 GB (41,000,001,536 bytes)
Available: 27.19 GB (27,185,029,120 bytes)
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
BSD Name: disk0s2
Mount Point: /
BOOTCAMP:
Capacity: 78.69 GB (78,689,337,344 bytes)
Available: 56.71 GB (56,710,623,232 bytes)
Writable: No
File System: NTFS
BSD Name: disk0s3
Mount Point: /Volumes/BOOTCAMP

INTEL SSDSC2MH120A2:

Capacity: 120.03 GB (120,034,123,776 bytes)
Model: INTEL SSDSC2MH120A2
Revision: PPG2
Serial Number: LNEL105500K1120CGN
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk0
Medium Type: Solid State
TRIM Support: No
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
Capacity: 209.7 MB (209,715,200 bytes)
Writable: Yes
BSD Name: disk0s1
OSX:
Capacity: 41 GB (41,000,001,536 bytes)
Available: 27.19 GB (27,185,029,120 bytes)
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
BSD Name: disk0s2
Mount Point: /
BOOTCAMP:
Capacity: 78.69 GB (78,689,337,344 bytes)
Available: 56.71 GB (56,710,623,232 bytes)
Writable: No
File System: NTFS
BSD Name: disk0s3
Mount Point: /Volumes/BOOTCAMP

INTEL SSDSC2MH120A2:

Capacity: 120.03 GB (120,034,123,776 bytes)
Model: INTEL SSDSC2MH120A2
Revision: PPG2
Serial Number: LNEL105500K1120CGN
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk0
Medium Type: Solid State
TRIM Support: No
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
Capacity: 209.7 MB (209,715,200 bytes)
Writable: Yes
BSD Name: disk0s1
OSX:
Capacity: 41 GB (41,000,001,536 bytes)
Available: 27.19 GB (27,185,029,120 bytes)
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
BSD Name: disk0s2
Mount Point: /
BOOTCAMP:
Capacity: 78.69 GB (78,689,337,344 bytes)
Available: 56.71 GB (56,710,623,232 bytes)
Writable: No
File System: NTFS
BSD Name: disk0s3
Mount Point: /Volumes/BOOTCAMP

 

[Weaselboy]

Here is the full text. I laso tried in windows (has a dual partition and I ma getting 300mbs read and 210 in write) so definitely only 3gbps

Again this is on a 13 inch model

Intel 6 Series Chipset:

Vendor: Intel
Product: 6 Series Chipset
Link Speed: 6 Gigabit
Negotiated Link Speed: 3 Gigabit
Description: AHCI Version 1.30 Supported

This is disappointing. I wonder if there is a firmware incompatibility between this drive and the SATA III connection? Maybe you should try contacting Intel and see what they say.

 

[desantii]

I'll send them an email. Any body else with a 13 macbook pro and new ssd?

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Not only is it disappointing it is a total rip off if it is not putting out Sata III speeds. I came real close to buying this yesterday as I am inpatient as hell waiting. This is not right it should be putting out Sata 3 and showing up on your Mac. Negotiated should read 6 gigibit. As long as you are in the Hard Drive space than that is what you should be getting with this drive

 

[desantii]

Not only is it disappointing it is a total rip off if it is not putting out Sata III speeds. I came real close to buying this yesterday as I am inpatient as hell waiting. This is not right it should be putting out Sata 3 and showing up on your Mac. Negotiated should read 6 gigibit. As long as you are in the Hard Drive space than that is what you should be getting with this drive

I know, that was one of teh reason i bought the intel thinking i was getting 6gbps speed

 

[Tyrion]

I'd wait for Anandtech's review, they usually look into this stuff. There's definitely something weird about that poster not getting SATA-III speeds.

 

[thejcurious]

Quality discussion on speeds and upgrades

Thanks to all those doing the research and finding out the real scoop on how the HDD and ODD are connected. I would have wasted some money. I would have to agree that it does seem a waste the ODD isn't connected to port1 allowing for 6Gbps, but it is in line with what we've come to expect from Apple in allowing themselves to grow and expand their product lines, driving best production specs (aesthetics, performance, battery,etc) over aftermarket flexibility.

Like many, I just want to make sure my next MBP upgrade will last the longest it can (keep the highest resell value for next upgrade). With that it is very much worth it to find out these details. I will be purchasing the 17" i7 2.3 as I think it is a good time/value. I think the extra boost and 2MB of L3 cache is probably worth it.

I would like thoughts on the best way to go about it for the best price without wasting parts. Ideally, I would have a SATAIII SSD in the HDD and the largest spinning drive I can fit in the ODD (noting the capability to sleep). Since the default 500GB/7200RPM or 750GB/540RPM drives do not have this capability, it seems they would be a "throw away" drive. I could buy a 256GB SSD and move it over when SATAIII SSD is available, but that seems a bit of a $$$ waste for file storage. Should I be concerned about heat of a 7200RPM drive in the ODD bay?

 

[Tyrion]

Thanks to all those doing the research and finding out the real scoop on how the HDD and ODD are connected. I would have wasted some money. I would have to agree that it does seem a waste the ODD isn't connected to port1 allowing for 6Gbps, but it is in line with what we've come to expect from Apple in allowing themselves to grow and expand their product lines, driving best production specs (aesthetics, performance, battery,etc) over aftermarket flexibility.

Like many, I just want to make sure my next MBP upgrade will last the longest it can (keep the highest resell value for next upgrade). With that it is very much worth it to find out these details. I will be purchasing the 17" i7 2.3 as I think it is a good time/value. I think the extra boost and 2MB of L3 cache is probably worth it.

I would like thoughts on the best way to go about it for the best price without wasting parts. Ideally, I would have a SATAIII SSD in the HDD and the largest spinning drive I can fit in the ODD (noting the capability to sleep). Since the default 500GB/7200RPM or 750GB/540RPM drives do not have this capability, it seems they would be a "throw away" drive. I could buy a 256GB SSD and move it over when SATAIII SSD is available, but that seems a bit of a $$$ waste for file storage. Should I be concerned about heat of a 7200RPM drive in the ODD bay?

You should be more concerned about the "sudden movement sensor" - the HDD in the optical bay won't be protected against shocks or sudden movements unless it's a model which comes with an included sensor (like a WD Scorpio Black, AFAIK).

I think you'll get the most bang for the buck if you buy the MBP with the 128 GB SSD as a 90$ BTO, then buy an aftermarket SATA-III SSD, throw it in the HDD bay, and install the 128 GB SSD in the optical bay. No spinning drives, a decent amount of storage, and SATA-III speeds on your main drive.

 

[mac jones]

I'll send them an email. Any body else with a 13 macbook pro and new ssd?

I have a new 17 and an unopened 510. I'm curious as to the outcome of this as i was on the fence to begin with about keeping the 510. But with this, I obviously can't use it.

It's most likely not confined to the 13 inch, and almost certainly would be a problem with the whole line.

This isn't surprising really, as the same thing happened a few years back with SATA 2. When the Macbooks shipped they showed as having SATA 2 , but the link speed was stuck at SATA 1 until Apple released a firmware update.

They were pretty quick about it (a couple weeks, as I remember it ).

You can be sure that ALL HECK will break loose if this new buss is stuck at SATA 2

should be amusing (if not depressing)

 

[thejcurious]

Perhaps a different approach?

You should be more concerned about the "sudden movement sensor" - the HDD in the optical bay won't be protected against shocks or sudden movements unless it's a model which comes with an included sensor (like a WD Scorpio Black, AFAIK).

I think you'll get the most bang for the buck if you buy the MBP with the 128 GB SSD as a 90$ BTO, then buy an aftermarket SATA-III SSD, throw it in the HDD bay, and install the 128 GB SSD in the optical bay. No spinning drives, a decent amount of storage, and SATA-III speeds on your main drive.

Thanks. That's what I meant by "sleep", but thanks for the correct term. My problem is in the sheer size of the files I need to keep access to. I can only image how expensive large SATA-III SSD would be. Perhaps, I should let go of the 6Gbps SSD and get a little more realistic with the performance/space I need this year.

What do you think of doing like you said and getting the 128GB, moving it over to the ODD and then buying the best hybrid drive I can for the HDD slot? It wouldn't be THE fastest, but at the end of the year there will likely be some more options utilizing Thunderbolt and/or SATAIII. I've heard mention of there being issues with the ODD being primary boot drive. Is this true?

Appreciate the opinion.

 

[Tyrion]

Thanks. That's what I meant by "sleep", but thanks for the correct term. My problem is in the sheer size of the files I need to keep access to. I can only image how expensive large SATA-III SSD would be. Perhaps, I should let go of the 6Gbps SSD and get a little more realistic with the performance/space I need this year.

What do you think of doing like you said and getting the 128GB, moving it over to the ODD and then buying the best hybrid drive I can for the HDD slot? It wouldn't be THE fastest, but at the end of the year there will likely be some more options utilizing Thunderbolt and/or SATAIII. I've heard mention of there being issues with the ODD being primary boot drive. Is this true?

Appreciate the opinion.

To be honest, I'm not sure about those Hybrids. They seem like a stopgap solution to me, and I'm not sure if they offer that much of a benefit over a regular HDD. If you're giving up on SATA-III, you could still get a fast, tried and proven SATA-II SSD - I think that would be a better value than a Hybrid. I'd wait a little while longer though, at least that's what I'm going to do (17" MBP with 128 GB SSD is on its way to me). There are quite a few exciting SSDs coming out in the next few weeks. And you should definitely wait to see what Anandtech have to say about SATA-III in the new MBPs; Anand himself told me via Twitter that he was stress-testing the Intel 510 in an MBP.

EDIT: What you heard about using the ODD as the boot drive is true, AFAIK. The drive in the main HDD bay should be the boot drive. I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to that, though.