2012-2013 NFL Football Thread

[Moyank24]

Part of it no doubt falls on the owner, but the majority of the blame should be on Tannenbaum and Rex Ryan.

Tannenbaum has made loads of horrendous personnel moves in his career there. They should have kicked him to the curb last year.. the whole Tebow debacle will be the final straw.

Rex has proved he's not head coach material. He can't control his locker room. He's a great defensive coach and coordinator, but if you can't command that respect and control in your locker room you won't go anywhere.

I think "controlling the locker room" is overrated. How many problems has Tom Coughlin had with players over the years? Didn't seem to have an effect in his 2 Super Bowl wins. Was Rex not head coach material when his team made it to back-to-back AFC Championship games? Is Francona a bad manager because he "lost his team" in 2011. Winning makes everything better.

When you are losing everything is amplified. Add in bad personnel choices, injuries, and the NY Media and only bad things happen. The addition of Tebow, someone whom Rex Ryan wanted no part of, only made things worse. Sanchez was never going to be effective with that mess hovering over him. Rex did stick with him too long - I'm not sure if that was just a play to show that it was "his" team. McElroy should have been given this shot weeks ago.

 

[einmusiker]

No, just another year, another season of you doing your Patriots hater schtick and throwing out nonsense. You'd think after you kept calling them losers last season you'd have learned your lesson. Acting like the Texans are a crap team just so you can bash the Patriots means no one is going to take you seriously.

You're mistaking me for someone else I'm an equal opportunity hater but I have a special hater spot for vikings and bears and any philadelphia based team. you must be thinking of some jets fan

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You seem like you don't want to believe your team is actually very good.

Don't let him fool you... his self-criticism is very machiavellian

 

[63dot]

You seem like you don't want to believe your team is actually very good.

The 49ers defense IS championship caliber, and it might be cliche, but defense DOES win championships. That defense is the class of the NFC and with that defense in the playoffs you guys should be favored in almost every matchup. I think you have it backwards. Houston, Denver, Baltimore, or the Patriots could all represent the AFC. It's pretty much a toss up. The 49ers definitely have a better chance. The only thing I would really be worried about if I was a SF fan would be playing Atlanta in Atlanta. Your defense could beat Green Bay even at Lambeau, and those two teams are your only real competition in the NFC.

Of course none of this is certain, because as they say, any team can win on any given sunday. But it's okay to have some confidence in your team.

You should hear the local norcal radio here. Many if not most of the talking heads like Smith and while we all know Kap is probably going to be great (and consistent, but in the future), he's still new and has a lot to learn. He has that youth, strength, and unhindered ability to run without having had major life changing injuries.

What will become of him if he gets hit hard or suffers injuries like former Niner Steve Young? What game plan will he have then? He can't always rely on his great running ability when he can't find a receiver. Smith can play healthy and he's had to play hurt at times. He knows how to miss a good amount of time yet bounce back and he has the routine down. He's not known for taking to the air as much as some but when he does, he's deadly accurate and has only gotten better and our team was built around his style for years. Kap's great but in some ways he's on his own while the rest of the team has to catch up. He's likely to throw some riskier passes than a Smith who was recently known to go an amazing 18 for 19.

What has to pass for "good" in San Francisco is what others would call amazing for any type of team and we are all still fighting off the hangovers from the SF Giant's second World Series in three years after having spent 56 years winless in that department. It is that standard we have become used to in the last three years and to get those sports writers and hosts to love Kap, he has to basically be a Joe Montana who was just as young and inexperienced but somehow had the wisdom of someone like Manning or Brady.

I will continue to root for my team, and have seen us as a success already having had a quarterback controversy where Kap got the nod but not the love and we have still made the playoffs. Even if we lose in the first game of this playoffs, it's amazing we even got there this year. Many thought we were losing the luster of the amazing defense we had last year that was responsible for our dominant 13-3 record but somehow held a lot of that strong D together this year. Our offense is now different, and still wins but is unpredictable and ugly. It's not the elegant system we saw with Joe and Steve, or even Jeff Garcia. Joe and Steve are household names forever in this region and it doesn't take much of a fan to acknowledge Garcia, too. Smith has barely made the vocabulary as a 49er level quarterback and Kap gets more press about his tats than his new title as starter. I hear what the rest of the country says and it's flattering but there's a lot of stomach upset over here in the bay area.

 

[MacNut]

I think "controlling the locker room" is overrated. How many problems has Tom Coughlin had with players over the years? Didn't seem to have an effect in his 2 Super Bowl wins. Was Rex not head coach material when his team made it to back-to-back AFC Championship games? Is Francona a bad manager because he "lost his team" in 2011. Winning makes everything better.

When you are losing everything is amplified. Add in bad personnel choices, injuries, and the NY Media and only bad things happen. The addition of Tebow, someone whom Rex Ryan wanted no part of, only made things worse. Sanchez was never going to be effective with that mess hovering over him. Rex did stick with him too long - I'm not sure if that was just a play to show that it was "his" team. McElroy should have been given this shot weeks ago.

To be fair it was a fluke that the Jets made it to the AFC championship. The Rex years have been highly overrated.

Victor Cruz is a class act and the NFL needs more like him.

NEWTOWN, Conn. -- New York Giants receiver Victor Cruz has visited the home of the 6-year-old Connecticut school victim who was buried in a replica Cruz jersey.

Jack Pinto was among 20 children who lost their lives Friday in Newtown. Several elementary school-age children played touch football in the front yard of his family's home on Tuesday. Many wore Giants jerseys or Newtown football or wrestling shirts as they laughed, smiled and hugged.

The children and their families left after several hours. Kids carried autographed Giants footballs and jerseys.

About 45 minutes later, Cruz left the home in an SUV and an escort of five police cruisers, sirens blaring. He later tweeted that he has "much love to the entire Pinto family. Great people with huge hearts."

Several people leaving the home confirmed Cruz was there.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/sto...-home-six-year-old-fan-lost-life-newtown-conn

 

[Moyank24]

To be fair it was a fluke that the Jets made it to the AFC championship. The Rex years have been highly overrated.

Victor Cruz is a class act and the NFL needs more like him.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/sto...-home-six-year-old-fan-lost-life-newtown-conn

C'mon man! You know that I'm as realistic about my teams as can be, but give some credit where it's due. The AFC championship that Vinny took them to was more of a fluke than the two under Rex. They had a killer defense, a good running game and Sanchez didn't turn the ball over. They also beat the Patriots (with Brady) and the Colts (with Peyton) in the playoffs, both games on the road. Maybe you can say one win was a fluke, but c'mon - they had to win 4 road games (IIRC) in those two years. I know everyone hates Rex, but...

And about Victor Cruz - he did an amazing thing and you're right - the NFL definitely needs more like him.

 

[mscriv]

Victor Cruz is a class act and the NFL needs more like him.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/sto...-home-six-year-old-fan-lost-life-newtown-conn

They mentioned during Sunday's game that Cruz was going to visit this family during the week and take his shoes to them. Apparently, he had the boy's name and a special message to him written on his cleats during Sunday's game. Reportedly, Cruz was the boy's favorite player and like the article states the young man was buried in a Cruz jersey.

Bravo Victor!

 

[einmusiker]

They mentioned during Sunday's game that Cruz was going to visit this family during the week and take his shoes to them. Apparently, he had the boy's name and a special message to him written on his cleats during Sunday's game. Reportedly, Cruz was the boy's favorite player and like the article states the young man was buried in a Cruz jersey.

Bravo Victor!

Please don't get me wrong... it's a nice gesture and all... But here's a true hero...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/victoria-soto-newtown-tea_n_2311762.html

 

[rdowns]

To be fair it was a fluke that the Jets made it to the AFC championship. The Rex years have been highly overrated.

He inherited a Jets team built to win now and did well with them. I'm not the biggest Ryan fan but I think he's been dealt a bad hand. Listening to his press conferences, it's clear to me that either Woody or Tannenbaum are making decisions Ryan should be making. And Woody and Tannenbaum are awful.

That said, I think the team needs to replace Tanny, let the new guy decide of he wants Rex or not and cut Sanchez on June 1 and go to cap hell. I think Sanchez has taken his last snap as a NY Jet. Oh yeah, get rid of Tebow.

 

[MacNut]

He inherited a Jets team built to win now and did well with them. I'm not the biggest Ryan fan but I think he's been dealt a bad hand. Listening to his press conferences, it's clear to me that either Woody or Tannenbaum are making decisions Ryan should be making. And Woody and Tannenbaum are awful.

That said, I think the team needs to replace Tanny, let the new guy decide of he wants Rex or not and cut Sanchez on June 1 and go to cap hell. I think Sanchez has taken his last snap as a NY Jet. Oh yeah, get rid of Tebow.

How much of Tebow looking over Sanchez's shoulder ruin him. Don't bring in a back up quater back with as much fame as Tebow and tell Sanchez he has nothing to worry about.

The Colts handed the Jets a win when they rolled over and rested the whole team, The Jets had no business even making the playoffs that year.

 

[Moyank24]

How much of Tebow looking over Sanchez's shoulder ruin him. Don't bring in a back up quater back with as much fame as Tebow and tell Sanchez he has nothing to worry about.

The Colts handed the Jets a win when they rolled over and rested the whole team, The Jets had no business even making the playoffs that year.

Sanchez had a horrible year last year also (I think he has ~50 turnovers in the last 2 season). I do think that once Tebow was brought in - even after they gave him that ridiculous extension - it was the beginning of the end for him. He had absolutely no room for error and frankly, he buckled under the pressure.

How many teams have "backed" into the playoffs? And that was only one of the two years. They did what they had to do, including winning 4 games on the road, to get to those championship games.

Stop hating on my Jets!! We've had an awful year. Don't take away my good memories!!

 

[ucfgrad93]

How much of Tebow looking over Sanchez's shoulder ruin him. Don't bring in a back up quater back with as much fame as Tebow and tell Sanchez he has nothing to worry about.

If Sanchez is too fragile to face that competition, then he shouldn't be an NFL quarterback.

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Sanchez had a horrible year last year also (I think he has ~50 turnovers in the last 2 season).

Sanchez and Phillip Rivers lead the league in turnovers by quarterbacks in the past 2 years.

 

[rdowns]

How much of Tebow looking over Sanchez's shoulder ruin him. Don't bring in a back up quater back with as much fame as Tebow and tell Sanchez he has nothing to worry about.

The Colts handed the Jets a win when they rolled over and rested the whole team, The Jets had no business even making the playoffs that year.

The NY Jets handling of Tim Tebow has been the most unprofessional thing I've ever seen in professional sports.

 

[Queen of Spades]

I think "controlling the locker room" is overrated. How many problems has Tom Coughlin had with players over the years? Didn't seem to have an effect in his 2 Super Bowl wins. Was Rex not head coach material when his team made it to back-to-back AFC Championship games? Is Francona a bad manager because he "lost his team" in 2011. Winning makes everything better.

Couldn't agree more. People constantly ignore this - especially when it comes to Coughlin. Until he won in 2007, he was considered a caustic bastard who always had anonymous players talking smack about his style in the press.

He inherited a Jets team built to win now and did well with them. I'm not the biggest Ryan fan but I think he's been dealt a bad hand.

Also agreed. As annoying a blowhard he can be, I think Rex Ryan is a good coach. That team is just talent depleted and in salary cap hell, which falls primarily on Tannenbaum.

C'mon man! You know that I'm as realistic about my teams as can be, but give some credit where it's due. The AFC championship that Vinny took them to was more of a fluke than the two under Rex. They had a killer defense, a good running game and Sanchez didn't turn the ball over. They also beat the Patriots (with Brady) and the Colts (with Peyton) in the playoffs, both games on the road. Maybe you can say one win was a fluke, but c'mon - they had to win 4 road games (IIRC) in those two years. I know everyone hates Rex, but...

Yeah, getting to the AFC Championship Game is not a fluke, especially not when you have to go through Indianapolis and Foxboro. The sad part is everyone expected those appearances to be just the beginning for the Jets, when really it turned out to be the peak.

I'm not shedding any tears as a Patriots fan, although I do think the last couple of years have been unfairly brutal for loyal Jets fans.

And about Victor Cruz - he did an amazing thing and you're right - the NFL definitely needs more like him.

Hearing Jack Pinto got buried in a Victor Cruz jersey honestly broke my heart. I don't think anyone called Victor Cruz a hero here, but he did a very kind thing in visiting that family and giving those other kids a break from thinking about the tragedy they will have to face forever.

 

[rdowns]

Also agreed. As annoying a blowhard he can be, I think Rex Ryan is a good coach. That team is just talent depleted and in salary cap hell, which falls primarily on Tannenbaum.

I can't imagine why Woody hasn't had him work with a PR firm and learn how to deal with the media better.

Yeah, getting to the AFC Championship Game is not a fluke, especially not when you have to go through Indianapolis and Foxboro. The sad part is everyone expected those appearances to be just the beginning for the Jets, when really it turned out to be the peak.

When you do it twice, it's no fluke. The fact is, the Jets had a lot of offensive weapons that more than compensated for Sanchez' lack of talent. He was a game manager and wasn't expected to be the offensive star.

I'm not shedding any tears as a Patriots fan, although I do think the last couple of years have been unfairly brutal for loyal Jets fans.

Amen. And that's from a Jets fan of 38 years.

Hearing Jack Pinto got buried in a Victor Cruz jersey honestly broke my heart. I don't think anyone called Victor Cruz a hero here, but he did a very kind thing in visiting that family and giving those other kids a break from thinking about the tragedy they will have to face forever.

Agreed. I read that he played Madden with the kids.

 

[zioxide]

How much of Tebow looking over Sanchez's shoulder ruin him. Don't bring in a back up quater back with as much fame as Tebow and tell Sanchez he has nothing to worry about.

Fame doesn't win football games, good players do, and neither of these guys are good players. The real blame lies on Tannenbaum. First, why would you give a 20 million dollar guaranteed extension to Mark Sanchez?? He's just not a good quarterback and never has been. It's not like this year has been an anomaly with his numbers or anything, he has been consistently not very good his entire NFL career. The Jets won those playoff games because of their defense, not Sanchez.

And if you are planning to shell out 20 million bucks to a guy who has been your starting quarterback for the past few years, why would you bring in a circus act like Tebow? What did they expect him to do exactly? (besides put asses in the seats)

If Sanchez is too fragile to face that competition, then he shouldn't be an NFL quarterback.

now we're on to something

The NY Jets handling of Tim Tebow has been the most unprofessional thing I've ever seen in professional sports.

Horrendously bad business and coaching decision? definitely. But I don't see how they treated him unprofessionally.

I think "controlling the locker room" is overrated. How many problems has Tom Coughlin had with players over the years? Didn't seem to have an effect in his 2 Super Bowl wins. Was Rex not head coach material when his team made it to back-to-back AFC Championship games? Is Francona a bad manager because he "lost his team" in 2011. Winning makes everything better.

It might be overrated, and yes you are right it is better when you are winning, but you rarely see the antics that have gone on with the Jets this year. Players anonymously complaining about teammates to the media? That CAN'T happen if you are expecting to win anything at all, it's detrimental to the team.

 

[Moyank24]

It might be overrated, and yes you are right it is better when you are winning, but you rarely see the antics that have gone on with the Jets this year. Players anonymously complaining about teammates to the media? That CAN'T happen if you are expecting to win anything at all, it's detrimental to the team.

That happened BECAUSE they weren't winning anything and BECAUSE Tanny made such awful personnel decisions. The nail in the coffin was the acquisition of Tim Tebow. Had they started out 9-0 do you think it would have gone down like that?

 

[zioxide]

That happened BECAUSE they weren't winning anything and BECAUSE Tanny made such awful personnel decisions. The nail in the coffin was the acquisition of Tim Tebow. Had they started out 9-0 do you think it would have gone down like that?

The Patriots started out 1-2 and if you listened to the Boston media you would have thought the sky was falling and someone just dropped a thermonuclear bomb on Gillette Stadium. Yet I did not hear a single peep, complaint, tweet, or anything from any player other than stuff to the effect of "we didn't play our best and we need to work hard as a team to get better".

Regardless if you are actually winning or not, you need to retain that winning atmosphere if you want to have any hope whatsoever of doing anything. This specific instance I was talking about happened at least a few weeks ago (I can't remember exactly) but when it happened the Jets probably still had a shot at a wild card if they would have played well to end the season. Plenty of times (hell, the Giants both time they beat the Pats recently) have teams started out bad and finished the year on a 6-10 game win streak and gone on a run in the playoffs. Any player throwing another player under the bus to the media does nothing except tear apart the locker room. They threw this entire season away before it was barely halfway over because of all of this nonsense.

 

[Moyank24]

The Patriots started out 1-2 and if you listened to the Boston media you would have thought the sky was falling and someone just dropped a thermonuclear bomb on Gillette Stadium. Yet I did not hear a single peep, complaint, tweet, or anything from any player other than stuff to the effect of "we didn't play our best and we need to work hard as a team to get better".

Regardless if you are actually winning or not, you need to retain that winning atmosphere if you want to have any hope whatsoever of doing anything. This specific instance I was talking about happened at least a few weeks ago (I can't remember exactly) but when it happened the Jets probably still had a shot at a wild card if they would have played well to end the season. Plenty of times (hell, the Giants both time they beat the Pats recently) have teams started out bad and finished the year on a 6-10 game win streak and gone on a run in the playoffs. Any player throwing another player under the bus to the media does nothing except tear apart the locker room. They threw this entire season away before it was barely halfway over because of all of this nonsense.

We'll agree to disagree. You don't like the Jets or Rex Ryan, so I'm not sure how objective you can be. Again, look at the past history of the NY Giants and their love/hate relationship with Coach Coughlin.

And frankly, the Jets were never good enough to be a playoff team. The Giants are seasoned underachievers who have the talent to get on a roll and plow through everyone. Add in a decent defense and...But with the Jets the talent just isn't there - especially on offense. Have you seen who their receivers are? And once Revis went down, the season was over.

It's easy not to panic if you're the Pats and you're 1-2 and Tom Brady is your QB. Of course they aren't going to implode after 3 games. Eking out wins against other bad teams may have put them in a position where they had a chance but it was never realistic. They're just not a good team. They know it. You know it. Everyone knows it.

 

[zioxide]

We'll agree to disagree.

Like usual, haha.

You don't like the Jets or Rex Ryan, so I'm not sure how objective you can be. Again, look at the past history of the NY Giants and their love/hate relationship with Coach Coughlin.

Even with the rocky relationship with Coughlin, I still don't remember any players calling out other players through the media in the years they won the Super Bowl.

And frankly, the Jets were never good enough to be a playoff team. The Giants are seasoned underachievers who have the talent to get on a roll and plow through everyone. Add in a decent defense and...But with the Jets the talent just isn't there - especially on offense. Have you seen who their receivers are? And once Revis went down, the season was over.

It's easy not to panic if you're the Pats and you're 1-2 and Tom Brady is your QB. Of course they aren't going to implode after 3 games. Eking out wins against other bad teams may have put them in a position where they had a chance but it was never realistic. They're just not a good team. They know it. You know it. Everyone knows it.

You're right that they aren't good enough to go deep in to the playoffs, but I thought they were better than their record shows. I thought they were going to beat the Patriots in their first matchup this year.

But, in my opinion at least, the atmosphere of the locker room is more important than you are saying. You'd be surprised how far keeping that winning mindset will go. Obviously, if you're completely overmatched on talent, you aren't going to win, but the Jets aren't the Jaguars here.

I know you'll still disagree but like you said, agree to disagree.

 

[Moyank24]

I know you'll still disagree but like you said, agree to disagree.

Like usual.

 

[Queen of Spades]

Fame doesn't win football games, good players do, and neither of these guys are good players. The real blame lies on Tannenbaum.

I think that's been Moyank's point this whole time. I mean, you can talk about Rex Ryan all you want, but the reality is Vince Lombardi couldn't win with the Jets roster as currently constructed. Everything else is secondary to this.

First, why would you give a 20 million dollar guaranteed extension to Mark Sanchez?? He's just not a good quarterback and never has been. It's not like this year has been an anomaly with his numbers or anything, he has been consistently not very good his entire NFL career. The Jets won those playoff games because of their defense, not Sanchez.

And if you are planning to shell out 20 million bucks to a guy who has been your starting quarterback for the past few years, why would you bring in a circus act like Tebow? What did they expect him to do exactly? (besides put asses in the seats)

I think Jets fans know this already. Why would you give John Lackey $82.5 million? Why would you give Carl Crawford $142 million? Etc. etc. Bad personnel choices are well-known to fans. I don't think Mo or rdowns or anyone is arguing that the roster wasn't crap. Pointing it out again and again is just mean. This goes, again, back to Tannenbaum mostly, and then to Rex Ryan and Woody Johnson for whatever input they had on building the roster.

Players anonymously complaining about teammates to the media? That CAN'T happen if you are expecting to win anything at all, it's detrimental to the team.

Again, Tom Coughlin has shown that being a dick or having your players talk smack in the media means a lot less in the NFL than having Justin Tuck, JPP, and Osi Umenyiora rushing the QB for you.

That happened BECAUSE they weren't winning anything and BECAUSE Tanny made such awful personnel decisions. The nail in the coffin was the acquisition of Tim Tebow. Had they started out 9-0 do you think it would have gone down like that?

Absolutely not. But the Tebow acquisition, to me, made it crystal clear that there is a disconnect somewhere between coaching and management/ownership. Acquiring a lightning rod guy like that and then not playing him at all was baffling.

The Patriots started out 1-2 and if you listened to the Boston media you would have thought the sky was falling and someone just dropped a thermonuclear bomb on Gillette Stadium. Yet I did not hear a single peep, complaint, tweet, or anything from any player other than stuff to the effect of "we didn't play our best and we need to work hard as a team to get better".

Tom Brady and the 2012 Patriots >>>>>>> Mark Sanchez and the NY Jets. Totally different. And yes, while I agree Bill Belichick and Rex Ryan have about as differing PR styles as there are, Rex's way was fine until their talent level plummeted. Remember the near-mutiny and all the smack talking that was coming out of Foxboro with the "players hate their coach" after Milloy left? Or the same rumblings when Ty Law was let go? Winning masks a lot of that stuff.

They threw this entire season away before it was barely halfway over because of all of this nonsense.

Still think Mark Sanchez turning the ball over at a ridiculous rate, having no decent receivers to throw to, no premiere running back, and a Revis-less, porous defense had more to do with that, but we can agree to disagree.

It's easy not to panic if you're the Pats and you're 1-2 and Tom Brady is your QB. Of course they aren't going to implode after 3 games. Eking out wins against other bad teams may have put them in a position where they had a chance but it was never realistic. They're just not a good team. They know it. You know it. Everyone knows it.

Basically, this. Exhibit A: the Patriots secondary before acquiring Aqib Talib, and the Patriots secondary after acquiring Aqib Talib. Same coach. Wildly different results. It's about the talent first. Coaching is important, obviously, but it's not going to turn Kyle Arrington into a good CB, or Chaz Schilens into a good WR.

It seemed to me that the Jets were finally waking up when reports came out of getting rid of Tebow and trading Sanchez, but then right after that, word of interest in Michael Vick started popping up. As a Patriots fan, I'm like "yesssss." As a friend of Moyank and rdowns, I'm honestly like WTF.

 

[pachyderm]

ESPN said something today about the Jets and Tebow prting ways at the end of the this season and that Tebow may be headed to Jacksonville...

 

[bigjnyc]

Even with the rocky relationship with Coughlin, I still don't remember any players calling out other players through the media in the years they won the Super Bowl.

They had their issues and controversies under coughlin pre-superbowl with tikki barber and during the superbowl seasons with jacobs and I forget who else.... The thing is that when you are winning these things get pushed under the rug and become a non-issue... and rightfully so of course.
When you are losing these things get magnified and blown out of proportion by the media, especially in big markets like Boston and NY.

 

[Vetvito]

ESPN said something today about the Jets and Tebow prting ways at the end of the this season and that Tebow may be headed to Jacksonville...

We all could've guessed the parting ways part a few weeks ago. They basically screwed this kid over, regardless if he can play QB or not.

 

[ucfgrad93]

We all could've guessed the parting ways part a few weeks ago. They basically screwed this kid over, regardless if he can play QB or not.

Totally agree.