2012 MBP w/ Cloned Optibay SSD will not boot...help?

[The Bad Guy]

This is killing me and any advice would be GREATLY appreciated.

Have got a brand new 2.6GHz i7 MBP with a Samsung 830 series 128GB SSD installed in the ODD. I want the MBP to startup from the SSD. Two weeks in and things aren't going well.

I've tried CCCing the internal SATA HDD to the SSD, migrating the data from the internal SATA HDD to the SSD and clean reinstalling from the recovery drive to the SSD. All work fine.

But the MacBook Pro will just not boot from the SSD. I get a circle with a line through it (stop sign?) and then it defaults to the HDD.

I've read here (I've done lots of reading on this) people are having similar issues and seemed to have solved the issue, but I can't seem to find the solution they refer to.

Can I get a lil' help please?

 

[greytmom]

Move the SSD to the main bay and see what happens.

 

[Rajpdx]

Move the SSD to the main bay and see what happens.

Agreed. It may be that your optical bay doesn't support a SATA 3 drive, despite what OWC think.

 

[The Bad Guy]

Thanks for your input guys. I was hoping to not have to open the MBP up again...but I'll give that a shot.

I thought I was on to a winner last night when I was able to boot from the SSD for the first time and even managed to make an admin account, but I got a kernel panic on restart.

Very frustrating.

 

[Rajpdx]

Thanks for your input guys. I was hoping to not have to open the MBP up again...but I'll give that a shot.

I thought I was on to a winner last night when I was able to boot from the SSD for the first time and even managed to make an admin account, but I got a kernel panic on restart.

Very frustrating.

I feel your pain, I've done this loads of times.

Quick tip - Take the Optibay out and remove the SSD. Put the SSD in the Main HDD bay, and then loosely place the bottom back on the machine (empty optical bay) and see if you can boot and run the machine. If you can, put the HDD in the Optibay and seal it up (make sure the HDD is SATA2). If the SSD will not boot properly you may have a different problem.

 

[garstudios]

i have the same 2.6 i7 15" macbook pro you do. i just installed the samsung 830 256gb in my optical bay via a MCETECH optibay (an old one from 2009 i had in my '09 macbook pro) i left the 750gb hdd in the main bay. I'm getting full 6gb/s speed and no issues. its been several days. i did a clean install. i even did a 16gb ram upgrade too. i also updated the samsungs firmware and formatted it before installing.

what optical bay caddy are you using? an actual optibay from mcetech or a cheap caddy from amazon/ebay? also, have you used the caddy before? it maybe an issue with the caddy. they can be hit or miss sometimes even when you buy an expensive one.

you did a clean install on the ssd right? did you transfer anything over to it afterwards before using the cleanly installed os on the ssd for a bit?

did you format before you did the clean install (after you used the cccloner)?

if you used cccloner to clone the hdd to the ssd like you said, i would definatly format it before doing a clean instal again. my experience tells me to only trust cccloner for an emergency cloned os disk, not for a normal clean install or transfer. i have experienced way to many screw ups on cccloners side to use it for things like this. i will usually end up with something like your outcome, or just kernel panics, or spinning balls constantly....i would especially not count on it for cloning a hdd to a ssd. i use it, but only to keep a copy around for emergencies. i always do clean installs if its not an emergency...because of things like this happening.

if you have a pc, i would check the samsung to see if it has the latest firmware. then i would boot to the hdd, hook up the samsung externally to format the ssd to mac os x extended journaled. then install it into the optical bay, then clean instal.

but right now for you. i would boot to the hdd, format the samsung to the mac os journaled using disk utility, then boot into the recovery again, and clean install one more time. then try it out for a while before you start transferring files to it. unless you want to open it up again before trying this and accidentally drop a screw driver on the logic board and screw it up with out trying this first..

just saying....

if you have to open it up again, i would check the connections, make sure nothings loose.

 

[NMF]

My 15" Mid-2012 is working great with a 256GB Samsung 830 in the optical bay.

What you need to do is fresh install Lion to the SSD, but DON'T migrate or restore or any of that nonsense. Somehow your easymode restoration programs are migrating something that confuses the MBP. With a clean install of Lion things should work fine. Use an external HD to temporarily store your files while you wipe the old HDD and then copy your files back manually. It really doesn't take that long... there's only a few directories you really need to copy.

There might me some other super technical weirdo way of doing this, but how much time are you going to waste doing research and fiddling with stuff? Just wipe the damn thing fresh and copy your crap over. Then once you have a fresh copy of Lion installed, make sure the SSD is set as the default start up disk.

NOTE: The only thing that really can't be fixed is that you can't install a bootcamp partition on a drive in the optical bay. Well, you can make the partition, but Windows 7 won't let you install on it. Unfixable at current time, so if bootcamp is something you need then you have no option than to move your SSD to the main bay.

 

[The Bad Guy]

i have the same 2.6 i7 15" macbook pro you do. i just installed the samsung 830 256gb in my optical bay via a MCETECH optibay (an old one from 2009 i had in my '09 macbook pro) i left the 750gb hdd in the main bay. I'm getting full 6gb/s speed and no issues. its been several days. i did a clean install. i even did a 16gb ram upgrade too. i also updated the samsungs firmware and formatted it before installing.

what optical bay caddy are you using? an actual optibay from mcetech or a cheap caddy from amazon/ebay? also, have you used the caddy before? it maybe an issue with the caddy. they can be hit or miss sometimes even when you buy an expensive one.

you did a clean install on the ssd right? did you transfer anything over to it afterwards before using the cleanly installed os on the ssd for a bit?

did you format before you did the clean install (after you used the cccloner)?

if you used cccloner to clone the hdd to the ssd like you said, i would definatly format it before doing a clean instal again. my experience tells me to only trust cccloner for an emergency cloned os disk, not for a normal clean install or transfer. i have experienced way to many screw ups on cccloners side to use it for things like this. i will usually end up with something like your outcome, or just kernel panics, or spinning balls constantly....i would especially not count on it for cloning a hdd to a ssd. i use it, but only to keep a copy around for emergencies. i always do clean installs if its not an emergency...because of things like this happening.

if you have a pc, i would check the samsung to see if it has the latest firmware. then i would boot to the hdd, hook up the samsung externally to format the ssd to mac os x extended journaled. then install it into the optical bay, then clean instal.

but right now for you. i would boot to the hdd, format the samsung to the mac os journaled using disk utility, then boot into the recovery again, and clean install one more time. then try it out for a while before you start transferring files to it. unless you want to open it up again before trying this and accidentally drop a screw driver on the logic board and screw it up with out trying this first..

just saying....

if you have to open it up again, i would check the connections, make sure nothings loose.

Thanks for your detailed reply, I'll see if I can't clarify a few things.

• The caddy is a no brand bit of kit, but the SSD mounts fine (at Finder level, in Disk utility and is present as a selectable startup disk), and is seen by the system profiler. It functions as it should albeit the booting.

• The SSD itself has been formatted, partitioned, cloned and / or reinstalled a fresh ad nauseum in all manners of order. 1 Partition (GUID), formatted to Mac OS Extended (Journaled) and then a fresh install via Lion Recovery HDD was the last attempt to get things working.

• In saying that though. At one stage I did get errors from CCC when it came to making a restore partition. A fresh install of Lion had an error once too, but I put this down to trying to reinstall from Apple's servers via Wifi (a slooooow process I don't recommend to anyone).

I'm thinking it may be a firmware issue with the SSD (requires Windows to upate though), but also know that brand new Macs can be tricky to startup without the appropriate OS media. Maybe wait 'til 10.7.5?

I'll try swapping drive bays and see what results I can get.

----------

My 15" Mid-2012 is working great with a 256GB Samsung 830 in the optical bay.

What you need to do is fresh install Lion to the SSD, but DON'T migrate or restore or any of that nonsense. Somehow your easymode restoration programs are migrating something that confuses the MBP. With a clean install of Lion things should work fine. Use an external HD to temporarily store your files while you wipe the old HDD and then copy your files back manually. It really doesn't take that long... there's only a few directories you really need to copy.

There might me some other super technical weirdo way of doing this, but how much time are you going to waste doing research and fiddling with stuff? Just wipe the damn thing fresh and copy your crap over. Then once you have a fresh copy of Lion installed, make sure the SSD is set as the default start up disk.

NOTE: The only thing that really can't be fixed is that you can't install a bootcamp partition on a drive in the optical bay. Well, you can make the partition, but Windows 7 won't let you install on it. Unfixable at current time, so if bootcamp is something you need then you have no option than to move your SSD to the main bay.

Thanks for the tip, but I've already done that mate....a couple of times now.

For the record, there's no data on the SSD. It's brand new. And three attempts at a clean install have yielded no bootable results.*


*Besides that one time I managed to create a user account.

 

[NMF]

Damn, that's crazy. Might be the firmware thing then...

 

[Rajpdx]

Damn, that's crazy. Might be the firmware thing then...

If its firmware then it won't work in the main bay.

My money (there's not much) is on the optical bay not supporting SATA3 on all 2012 MBPs - they could have been using mixed batches of wiring.

 

[garstudios]

Thanks for your detailed reply, I'll see if I can't clarify a few things.

• The caddy is a no brand bit of kit, but the SSD mounts fine (at Finder level, in Disk utility and is present as a selectable startup disk), and is seen by the system profiler. It functions as it should albeit the booting.

• The SSD itself has been formatted, partitioned, cloned and / or reinstalled a fresh ad nauseum in all manners of order. 1 Partition (GUID), formatted to Mac OS Extended (Journaled) and then a fresh install via Lion Recovery HDD was the last attempt to get things working.

• In saying that though. At one stage I did get errors from CCC when it came to making a restore partition. A fresh install of Lion had an error once too, but I put this down to trying to reinstall from Apple's servers via Wifi (a slooooow process I don't recommend to anyone).

I'm thinking it may be a firmware issue with the SSD (requires Windows to upate though), but also know that brand new Macs can be tricky to startup without the appropriate OS media. Maybe wait 'til 10.7.5?

I'll try swapping drive bays and see what results I can get.

----------



Thanks for the tip, but I've already done that mate....a couple of times now.

For the record, there's no data on the SSD. It's brand new. And three attempts at a clean install have yielded no bootable results.*


*Besides that one time I managed to create a user account.

well to clarify. even though your disk mounts and some what works in the optical bay caddy you have, it could still be causing issues. i can guarantee that. they're hit or miss just like a macbook pro or a cinema display or any tech for that matter, you may get one with dead pixels, or some other random issues....its just the luck of the draw my friend.

as many times as i have opened up a macbook pro, or any other couple thousand dollar machine or more, i still cringe and shake (haha). just trying to save you some trouble. id rather set through a long drawn out reinstall again then wait for/or pay for a replacement machine because i accidentally messed something up when doing something as simple as switching out a drive.

good luck, keep us updated.

----------

If its firmware then it won't work in the main bay.

My money (there's not much) is on the optical bay not supporting SATA3 on all 2012 MBPs - they could have been using mixed batches of wiring.

and again, yes, it could be hit or miss with even that too....again....as well.

apple didn't exactly mean for people to do this....or they would be selling the caddy themselves.....

 

[Urban Spaceman]

It does appear that ODD-bay SATA III issues with the 2012 15" cMBP are related to lower-quality "no brand" caddies. That's not to say all "no brand" caddies are junk, but people who stick with OWC and MCETech appear to have better luck.

If the caddy is not capable of sustaining SATA III speed (due to EM interference) then it is irrelevant that the 2012 cMBP's ODD-bay is capable of SATA III because the caddy will prevent if from working correctly. I fear that until you use a caddy that others have confirmed to work (e.g. OWC's Data Doubler), the primary suspect for you issues must be your caddy.

 

[Agent-P]

When you have the SSD with the boot up info, have your tried holding down the "option" key during boot to manually select the SSD to startup? Or does that give the same error as before?

If that doesn't work, I agree that if a firmware update is available then that might fix it.

 

[NMF]

It does appear that ODD-bay SATA III issues with the 2012 15" cMBP are related to lower-quality "no brand" caddies. That's not to say all "no brand" caddies are junk, but people who stick with OWC and MCETech appear to have better luck.

If the caddy is not capable of sustaining SATA III speed (due to EM interference) then it is irrelevant that the 2012 cMBP's ODD-bay is capable of SATA III because the caddy will prevent if from working correctly. I fear that until you use a caddy that others have confirmed to work (e.g. OWC's Data Doubler), the primary suspect for you issues must be your caddy.

I can confirm that this "no brand" caddy works just fine with SATA-III in the optical bay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOR-Apple-M..._Ray_Drives&hash=item43b1cfa1b6#ht_2313wt_786

 

[garstudios]

I can confirm that this "no brand" caddy works just fine with SATA-III in the optical bay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOR-Apple-M..._Ray_Drives&hash=item43b1cfa1b6#ht_2313wt_786

I'm curious to know how you know that.

I just realized your not the op. sorry, I thought you were for a second, so I was confused at how you would know it worked, if it hasn't yet.

Ignore this post

Well except that if apple can't have 100 percent production of products with out issues, I would Imagine that those no brand caddys have pretty high rate Of some having issues vs. others.

 

[Urban Spaceman]

I can confirm that this "no brand" caddy works just fine with SATA-III in the optical bay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOR-Apple-M..._Ray_Drives&hash=item43b1cfa1b6#ht_2313wt_786

That's good to know. I was about to order an OWC Data Doubler, but that may save me some $s. We should probably have a thread dedicated to identifying the SATA III capable caddies.

Have you run any stress tests to confirm you get the same read/write performance in the ODD bay as in the HDD bay?

 

[Rajpdx]

That's good to know. I was about to order an OWC Data Doubler, but that may save me some $s. We should probably have a thread dedicated to identifying the SATA III capable caddies.

Have you run any stress tests to confirm you get the same read/write performance in the ODD bay as in the HDD bay?

A pass through SATA interface isn't very complex - no reason any caddy shouldn't work.

 

[garstudios]

That's good to know. I was about to order an OWC Data Doubler, but that may save me some $s. We should probably have a thread dedicated to identifying the SATA III capable caddies.

Have you run any stress tests to confirm you get the same read/write performance in the ODD bay as in the HDD bay?

the issue here isn't that the caddy is SATA III capable....all the caddies should have a passive adapter with out any thing to do with the actual SATAII or SATAIII capabilities. the issue here is that it just could be a crappily made caddy, or a broken caddy from a batch of decently made caddies.

 

[Urban Spaceman]

A pass through SATA interface isn't very complex - no reason any caddy shouldn't work.

the issue here isn't that the caddy is SATA III capable....all the caddies should have a passive adapter with out any thing to do with the actual SATAII or SATAIII capabilities. the issue here is that it just could be a crappily made caddy, or a broken caddy from a batch of decently made caddies.

There is every reason why the poorly laid-out unshielded, un-grounded pass-through of a badly-designed adaptor (or cable) would have a significant impact the ability of a caddy to maintain SATA III speeds.

EDIT: Damn-it; I can't find the guide where the guy got an SSD to work at SATA III speeds in an otherwise non-compliant MBP ODD-bay by eliminating the pass-through bit of the caddy and MacGyvering the drive straight on to the MBP's connector (then shielding and earthing the buggery out of the drive).

 

[Rajpdx]

There is every reason why the poorly laid-out unshielded, un-grounded pass-through of a badly-designed adaptor (or cable) would have a significant impact the ability of a caddy to maintain SATA III speeds.

EDIT: Damn-it; I can't find the guide where the guy got an SSD to work at SATA III speeds in an otherwise non-compliant MBP ODD-bay by eliminating the pass-through bit of the caddy and MacGyvering the drive straight on to the MBP's connector (then shielding and earthing the buggery out of the drive).

Actually, that's a good point although the pass throughs are commodity products - but I've not seen much evidence of shielding on any caddys - including the expensive branded ones. Worth testing though I suppose - if OP was in PDX I could lend him a Data Doubler.

 

[garstudios]

There is every reason why the poorly laid-out unshielded, un-grounded pass-through of a badly-designed adaptor (or cable) would have a significant impact the ability of a caddy to maintain SATA III speeds.

EDIT: Damn-it; I can't find the guide where the guy got an SSD to work at SATA III speeds in an otherwise non-compliant MBP ODD-bay by eliminating the pass-through bit of the caddy and MacGyvering the drive straight on to the MBP's connector (then shielding and earthing the buggery out of the drive).

yeah, that is exactly what i meant....poorly made caddy...i was trying to clarify that all the caddis should be capable of sata3 because it is merely a pass through adapter....and the speed is more about the ssd and the logic board.

 

[NMF]

That's good to know. I was about to order an OWC Data Doubler, but that may save me some $s. We should probably have a thread dedicated to identifying the SATA III capable caddies.

Have you run any stress tests to confirm you get the same read/write performance in the ODD bay as in the HDD bay?

I never installed the SSD in the HDD bay so I have no basis for comparison, but I'm pretty damn happy with my ODD bay performance.

 

[The Bad Guy]

Appreciate all the feedback thus far, thanks guys.

But one thing on this caddy business...

Whether the connection is maintaining optimal SATA3 speeds or not, the SSD remains mounted with no drop outs, remains selectable from startup disk manager etc...surely this wouldn't affect booting?

If anything, shouldn't read / write performance be the only thing that suffered from a slower bus speed?

 

[Rajpdx]

Appreciate all the feedback thus far, thanks guys.

But one thing on this caddy business...

Whether the connection is maintaining optimal SATA3 speeds or not, the SSD remains mounted with no drop outs, remains selectable from startup disk manager etc...surely this wouldn't affect booting?

If anything, shouldn't read / write performance be the only thing that suffered from a slower bus speed?

In the 2011 machines, there was a lot of excitement that both bays supported SATA 3. They did, but the wiring from the optical bay had issues maintaining SATA 3 speeds - interference. Oddly, this only affected the 15 and 17 inch machines but not the 13. The problem manifested exactly as you've described. the 2011 machines had the SATA3 interface in the optical bay but not the wiring - or more to the point - the wiring may or may not be there for SATA3 but it's not a problem for Apple as they designed the bay for an Optical drive which only really needs SATA1

The issue manifests as no, or very very slow booting or frequent beachballing for operations which are not taxing the hardware - and crashing. It's not a question of just slowing to SATA2 - that would be ok for most people - but it's not what happens.

I have experienced that on 2011 machines. I've also had the same experience putting a SATA SSD in the optical bay of a 2009 17" MBP. This shouldn't have been a problem, since it should have just throttled down to SATA2 anyway, but it was and I had to use a SATA 2 SSD. The SATA3 SSD was fine in the main bay.

According to OWC (macsales.com) they tested the 2012 15" machines and found that they were working with SATA3 in both bays.

Since you and a few others have issues with 2012 15" machines, my money is on OWC's conclusion being wrong and that only some 2012 15" machines work with SATA3 in the optical bay. Alternatively, it is possible that some aspect of the shielding in the SATA passthrough is causing the problem by allowing interference with the SATA3 datastream - although I'm sceptical that this is the case, it's certainly something worth testing.

In any event, I would always put the drive I want to boot from in the main bay. That's what it is designed for.

Best of luck.

 

[The Bad Guy]

Well, it seems I've finally found success.

What did I do?

I switched bays.

Put the SSD in where the internal SATA HDD used to be and it's been booting without issue ever since.

Was it the caddy? Who knows, but the old drive is in there currently and Finder has no problems mounting, reading and / or writing to it.

Thank you all for your ideas and input, most appreciated.