2013 27' iMac..Upgrade to SSD (what kits are available, will be available?)

[xxBURT0Nxx]

You can install a regular SSD in the HDD slot, but Apple's iMac SSDs are blades. PCI-e blades at that.

THanks, guess I missed that they changed that.

Either way, wouldn't mess with blades when you could just put an SSD in the HDD slot. Run an external HDD if you want more space than the SSD provides and throw it on one of those iMac shelfs so you never see it.

 

[Hellhammer]

I have a question regarding the TRIM on external SSD's. I have always enabled TRIM for my internal SSD replacements and assumed it was something I could do on an external, but didn't know it could only be done via SATA or TB. I have a Samsung 840 Evo in a Oyen Minipro USB3 enclosure. Would it be possible to install the SSD in another computer to utilize a SATA connection to temporarily enable TRIM on the drive, and then put it back in my USB3 enclosure? Is the TRIM command constantly reliant on SATA or TB? Also, why is this even reliant on a certain type of connection at all?

TRIM doesn't work with USB because the TRIM command is part of the ACHI command set, which is not supported by USB.

One other odd note, the OCZ drive (actually tried two, a Vertex 3 Max IOPS and Vertex 4) would not be recognized by the FirmTek USB 3.0 adapter, they were recognized and worked fine by all of the other adapters. Maybe it is something in the FirmTek firmware or the OCZ firmware?

I've had similar problems with the Vertex 4 and Agility 4. I had hard time measuring the power consumption since the drive would not be recognizable when plugged into series with a multimeter. I did get it to work by switching to shorter cables, which equals to less resistance. It seems that the drives need more power than other drives during the start up and power is something that can vary depending on the enclosure.

Nobody (that I know of) sells third party PCI-e blades (yet), and the connectors are different (or if they are the same, they wont be interoperable).

iFixit does. It's for the 2013 MacBook Air but the connectors are very, very likely the same (we'll find out for sure soon).

The results I posted are real world results, not theoretical, but ok. The lacie is one of the slowest drives around, wouldn't be using it to try to win any speed comparisons. Even though a USB3 drive may get close to TB, or in some cases be faster, there are bottlenecks involved which are limiting TB from reaching it's full potential. So although results may be similar now, you are a lot closer to maxing out a USB3 connection than you are TB.

This isn't a battle between Thunderbolt and USB 3.0, it's a battle between implementations and controllers. Thunderbolt has a maximum bandwidth of 10Gbps while USB 3.0 has 5Gbps, that's a fact.

The part where things get complicated is that drives don't have PCIe or USB 3.0 as their native interface, meaning that you'll need controllers to make the enclosure compatible with SATA drives. The quality of SATA 6Gbps controllers varies a lot. Most of the cheap ones are rather garbage since the speeds you get are 350-400MB/s while native Intel solutions are good for up to ~550MB/s.

 

[Brian Y]

iFixit does. It's for the 2013 MacBook Air but the connectors are very, very likely the same (we'll find out for sure soon).

Those are pulls from actual Apple machines (i.e. likely salvage from damaged machines, etc). They will have been used.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

This isn't a battle between Thunderbolt and USB 3.0, it's a battle between implementations and controllers. Thunderbolt has a maximum bandwidth of 10Gbps while USB 3.0 has 5Gbps, that's a fact.

The part where things get complicated is that drives don't have PCIe or USB 3.0 as their native interface, meaning that you'll need controllers to make the enclosure compatible with SATA drives. The quality of SATA 6Gbps controllers varies a lot. Most of the cheap ones are rather garbage since the speeds you get are 350-400MB/s while native Intel solutions are good for up to ~550MB/s.

Thanks, that's exactly what I said... not sure what you are trying to argue with me???

 

[drakula1975]

Ok I think I'll choose the imac BTO with the 256 SSD drive.

If I'm not wrong the SSD will be the PCIe drive and I'll still have the SATA connector free so I can upgrade the machine with a second drive in the future.

Is that correct? Has anyone bought the iMac with only the 256 SSD drive to confirm this?

Thanks again!

 

[KOTULCN]

If you add an Apple "blade" in addition to HDD can you set it up as a stand alone drive or will the computer try and make it a fusion drive?

 

[Bear]

if you want to go external, thunderbolt is going to be faster than usb3

Actually for a single SATA connected drive in an enclosure, USB 3 and Thunderbolt speeds are about the same. The limitation is the SSD speed.

 

[Tanax]

Thanks, that's exactly what I said... not sure what you are trying to argue with me???

Just because something has a theoretical bandwidth limit that is higher than some other theoretical bandwidth limit, doesn't mean that the first will be faster.

As you pointed out, installing an SSD into a USB 3 enclosure will be much closer to the limit of USB 3 than if you install the same SSD into a Thunderbolt enclosure. But again, if the Thunderbolt enclosure -makers don't improve their controllers, there is no real advantage of Thunderbolt in terms of speed.

If they do fix it though, it has the potential to be faster but considering most consumer SSDs are SATA 3 (6Gbps), that speed-advantage is almost nothing. Until more PCIe SSDs come out, having a single SSD in a Thunderbolt enclosure is practically useless in terms of speed-advantage over USB 3.

In terms of other things, CPU-usage, TRIM-support, Thunderbolt do have an advantage. But speed - not so much currently.

 

[II BISTRO II]

You can install a regular SSD in the HDD slot, but Apple's iMac SSDs are blades. PCI-e blades at that.

----------



Nobody (that I know of) sells third party PCI-e blades (yet), and the connectors are different (or if they are the same, they wont be interoperable). You have 3 options if you want an SSD in there:

- Buy the Apple blade drive. You'll have an SSD + a HDD.
- Replace the HDD with a regular SATA SSD.
- Wait it out. There will be third party SSDs.

You could also have one externally, but I'm not a fan of that.

i decided to go with a pcie ssd because of the faster speeds over sata ssd..

where can i get a pcie ssd like the one used in the 2013 imac and 2013 mba??
there are none on ebay yet

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

Actually for a single SATA connected drive in an enclosure, USB 3 and Thunderbolt speeds are about the same. The limitation is the SSD speed.

Close, but still not as fast as TB.

Just because something has a theoretical bandwidth limit that is higher than some other theoretical bandwidth limit, doesn't mean that the first will be faster.

As you pointed out, installing an SSD into a USB 3 enclosure will be much closer to the limit of USB 3 than if you install the same SSD into a Thunderbolt enclosure. But again, if the Thunderbolt enclosure -makers don't improve their controllers, there is no real advantage of Thunderbolt in terms of speed.

If they do fix it though, it has the potential to be faster but considering most consumer SSDs are SATA 3 (6Gbps), that speed-advantage is almost nothing. Until more PCIe SSDs come out, having a single SSD in a Thunderbolt enclosure is practically useless in terms of speed-advantage over USB 3.

In terms of other things, CPU-usage, TRIM-support, Thunderbolt do have an advantage. But speed - not so much currently.

But there is still a difference in speed between the two. They are close in performance, but a good quality TB drive will beat out a USB3. It might only be 50MBps faster, but it's still faster. Not to mention the ability to run data in both directions over TB (going to be a lot faster if you need to copy from and write to a drive simultaneously), ability to daisy chain, run audio, video, less CPU, etc. TB is a much better option overall imo even if you are getting similar speed because like I said, you are basically maxing out a USB3 connection with a SATA3 drive, while TB still has plenty of overhead.

 

[drakula1975]

So if I buy the BTO with a 256 SSD will i still have a free SATA connection so I can add a second hard drive in the future?

 

[Takuro]

If you add an Apple "blade" in addition to HDD can you set it up as a stand alone drive or will the computer try and make it a fusion drive?

It'll be mounted as two different volumes by default. Making two drives appear as a fusion drive requires some trickery in DiskUtil from the terminal.

See the following guide which explains how to group two physical disks into one logical Fusion drive:
http://www.macworld.com/article/2014011/how-to-make-your-own-fusion-drive.html

 

[Hellhammer]

i decided to go with a pcie ssd because of the faster speeds over sata ssd..

where can i get a pcie ssd like the one used in the 2013 imac and 2013 mba??
there are none on ebay yet

I found at least one on eBay and iFixit has one too. However, the pricing is pretty absurd, so buying the SSD straight from Apple as a BTO will be cheaper and much easier.

So if I buy the BTO with a 256 SSD will i still have a free SATA connection so I can add a second hard drive in the future?

We don't know for sure yet but most likely yes.

 

[KOTULCN]

Still can't find anyone who has attempted this. I really just want to see if rMBP SSD's will work in new iMac.

 

[Hellhammer]

Still can't find anyone who has attempted this. I really just want to see if rMBP SSD's will work in new iMac.

That won't be possible. rMBP has a SATA SSD, whereas the new iMac uses a PCIe based one. The pin layouts are different too.

 

[KOTULCN]

That won't be possible. rMBP has a SATA SSD, whereas the new iMac uses a PCIe based one. The pin layouts are different too.

The top one is from an iMac? Is there any where to get ahold of a compatible drive right now?

 

[Hellhammer]

The top one is from an iMac? Is there any where to get ahold of a compatible drive right now?

The top one is from rMBP, the bottom one from 2013 MBA. We don't know for sure what the drive in the iMac is like but most likely it's the same as in the MBA. I posted some links above.

 

[KOTULCN]

The top one is from rMBP, the bottom one from 2013 MBA. We don't know for sure what the drive in the iMac is like but most likely it's the same as in the MBA. I posted some links above.

I guess it's just a waiting game then. I just ordered this external enclosure http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/ES2.5BU3B/ to use with my Samsung 830 SSD as a boot drive. I used CCC to clone my OSX install and tried it in my USB 2 enclosure while I wait for the new one but for some reason I can't use Black Magic to test the speed?!

 

[drakula1975]

So if I buy the BTO with a 256 SSD will i still have a free SATA connection so I can add a second hard drive in the future?

I've been investigating this week and I've found this on the iFixit forums:

"Yes, your system will have the SSD connected to the SSD PCIe connector and the SATA connector will be vacant.

As you didn't get the HD the mounting hardware and cables will not be present. So you will need to order them when you do decide to add in an HD or second SSD via the SATA port."

I've found on powerbookmedic.com the parts for the late 2012 iMac:

Hard Drive Cradle
Hard Drive Left Lid
Hard Drive Right Lid
Hard Drive Power Cable
Hard Drive Data Cable



Is the mounting hardware the same in the 2012 and 2013 models? I've seen that the data and power cable now are on the same connector but I guess you can still use 2 separate cables.

Still anyone with an SSD BTO model to confirm this?

Thanks!

 

[kansei]

Still anyone with an SSD BTO model to confirm this?

Thanks!

i'm in the same boat. I want to add a 2.5" SSD I have laying around using the 2.5" SATA drive space unused in my 2013 iMac. Powerbookmedic only seems to have the 2011 listed? they have the 21" 2012 but they're totally different internally vs the 27". The parts you attached photos of definitely won't work.

Using the ifixit teardown of the 2012 and 2013, it does look like all the mounting bits are the same.

2012 step 20:
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+27-Inch+EMC+2546+Hard+Drive+Replacement/15796

2013 step 2:
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+Intel+27-Inch+EMC+2639+Teardown/17828

SATA data and power ports also appear to be identical (not sure if these links work):

2012: http://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/tuGd3uRBXo5b2qRC.huge
2013: http://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/4n5SSMfENi34CPtI.huge

 

[propower]

I think the data about SSD speed was skewed by using a slow one to start with!

I tested the internal SSD on a 2012 mini with an external Samsung 840 500G non pro in a USB3 case and got 320/427 W/R
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1483374/

As you can see though the difference between internal and external was really small!

If you use an even better drive 840pro or similar these number get even better. Until you hit a RAID setup USB3 should come close to TB. There is the overhead issue though on USB3

 

[MacOG728893]

This is an awesome thread! There is quite a bit of useful information.

I think in the future, I'll get a 1TB SATA SSD to compliment my 512GB PCI-e iMac that's still being shipped.

What a perfect combo. It's too bad Apple doesn't offer you anything for the empty SATA space. I'm sure a lot of people would go for it.

 

[09iMac=Fail]

i'm in the same boat. I want to add a 2.5" SSD I have laying around using the 2.5" SATA drive space unused in my 2013 iMac. Powerbookmedic only seems to have the 2011 listed? they have the 21" 2012 but they're totally different internally vs the 27". The parts you attached photos of definitely won't work.

Using the ifixit teardown of the 2012 and 2013, it does look like all the mounting bits are the same.

2012 step 20:
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+27-Inch+EMC+2546+Hard+Drive+Replacement/15796

2013 step 2:
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+Intel+27-Inch+EMC+2639+Teardown/17828

SATA data and power ports also appear to be identical (not sure if these links work):

2012: http://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/tuGd3uRBXo5b2qRC.huge
2013: http://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/4n5SSMfENi34CPtI.huge

I've been investigating this week and I've found this on the iFixit forums:

"Yes, your system will have the SSD connected to the SSD PCIe connector and the SATA connector will be vacant.

As you didn't get the HD the mounting hardware and cables will not be present. So you will need to order them when you do decide to add in an HD or second SSD via the SATA port."

I've found on powerbookmedic.com the parts for the late 2012 iMac:

Hard Drive Cradle
Hard Drive Left Lid
Hard Drive Right Lid
Hard Drive Power Cable
Hard Drive Data Cable



Is the mounting hardware the same in the 2012 and 2013 models? I've seen that the data and power cable now are on the same connector but I guess you can still use 2 separate cables.

Still anyone with an SSD BTO model to confirm this?

Thanks!

kansei and drakula,

Have either of you successfully installed a 2nd SSD in the SATA port on the late 2013 iMac? I've got a late 2013 iMac on the way with the 256GB factory SSD installed. I've also got a Samsung SSD and an external USB 3 case for additional work space - mostly for the spouses stuff. I'd much rather prefer to put the additional Samsung SSD inside the iMac and connect it to the unused SATA port for TRIM support and faster speeds - cleaner desk too!

Can anyone verify what power cable you'd need to install a standard SSD on the SATA port in the late 2013 iMac? That's the last piece to this puzzle for me. I can't seem to locate the power connector port on any of the motherboard pics I've been looking at. Do you need that special power cable from powerbookmedic.com that is listed above?

I apologize if some of my terminology is off! I'm really looking forward to getting this machine up and running when it comes in, should be a awesome upgrade. Wooot! Hopefully I wont be plagued with screen issues that I've dealt with in the past. I haven't ordered the adhesive kit yet from ifixit, but I'm guessing the late 2012 kit listed will also work for the late 2013 iMac? If my memory serves me correctly, there wasn't a design change externally between those years.

 

[KOTULCN]

Has anyone seen any PCIe SSD's compatible with 2013 iMacs available yet?

 

[jayhawk11]

Has anyone seen any PCIe SSD's compatible with 2013 iMacs available yet?

OWC announced that they'll have them this year, but no release date or pricing yet.