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I truly hope that Apple will see sluggish sales of the Mac Mini and reverse their decision using soldered RAM in order to rip off customers. I was about to completely switch to Mac OS, but scrapped these plans due to the disappointing Mac Mini upgrade.

I see a lot of disgruntled Apple users since Apple released the Mac Mini. Apple haters without any substantial arguments can be ignored, but this trend looks different.

I agree with you, though it seems unlikely given that Apple's trend has been to tighten down on everything. I think removing user upgradability is a mistake, especially on a desktop machine.

For my part, I've stopped buying new (unless one counts the quad-core Mini I just ordered from B&H) and will restrict myself to buying used. Obviously it's not going to hurt Apple one bit, but perhaps when enough friends and family pick up on my not being sold on Apple as completely, their behavior will change and eventually Apple will get the hint.
 
I'm going to stick with Mavericks on my late 2012 Mac Mini, it works perfectly and I just checked my activity monitor and I am running 3 tabs of Chome browser and Email open and my memory used is only 4.65 GB

I probably will eventually try Yosemite because I have enough ram (16 GB) but for now I really like Mavericks and see no reason to upgrade so quickly.

But be forewarned...if you plan to use Yosemite 8 GB will do if you are not multitasking a lot more programs, 16 GB will better serve you and now with soldered ram, well there you go.

Actually, it is a bit different on machines with 8GB RAM on 10.10. Same Apps running yield only 5.49 GB usage with 1.51 GB in cache and zero in the Swap. So the memory utilization may be a function of the total RAM capacity. Sort of more aggressive memory pre-allocation per process to help with future memory needs of app. Who knows? I do not think we need to worry about it, yet, but 4GB would really rain on anyones parade.
 
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Where does it state that RAM is user replaceable? Because computer companies allowed for this?

Because user-replaceable RAM has been the norm ever since personal consumer computers became a thing. Why? Because it's the easiest, cheapest most efficient and effective upgrade you can do to your computer. RAM has become much cheaper and available in much larger modules just about every year for decades. Your computer is a couple years old now and it came with a midrange amount of RAM when you bought it? Why, for a small fraction of what you paid for the computer, you can near enough quadruple your RAM. Almost free too, in comparison that what the same amount of RAM would have set you back a couple of years ago when you bought that computer.

You have to look at this from Apple's perspective.

No, why the hell should I? I'm the customer here, I'll just bring my money elsewhere.
 
Indeed, I have mail and chrome open and it is 7.57GB used, and cache is only 1.88GB. Not really a good sign:apple:
Imagine what owners of $499 model would think of Apple with 4GB soldered RAM - :mad: it is not even enough to use Safari to complain on MacRumors.

No problem here, I could always add another 16GB to my Hack to make it 32GB.
I guess Yosemite will just have to start writing to that blazing fast 5400rpm Drive.
 
Another reason why upgrading ram is so important....I just saw a you tube video showing that just running Yosemite on your Mac (with no other programs running) uses almost 7 GB of ram. They opened the activity monitor and it shows almost 7 GB of memory being used. So it appears that Yosemite is a memory hog. So if you only get a 8 GB Mini, that only leaves you with 1 GB free of memory. If you think you don't need 16 GB of ram, think again.

Hmmm... Shows 1.22 GB used here for "kernel_task". 9.78 GB used out of 16 GB. Thing is, the more memory there is, the more will be used, that's what it's for. Otherwise, with less memory, "stuff" will be written back the hard drive as page file and erased from RAM. If your system can't keep up with that task, because slow CPU and tiny amount of RAM, oh, and small hard drive, that's when you get "thrashing". The system pretty much goes spastic and flails it's little arms, drooling on itself.

Installing a faster CPU can fix that, and if that's not an option, because Apple, adding more RAM later on (when a newer version of the OS uses more resources, but RAM prices have fallen from thirteen gazillion for 8 GB down to tree fiddy) is the single most popular upgrade to computers, followed by larger or faster hard drives (hi, Apple).

Apple is telling me in no uncertain words that they don't want my business anymore. OK then. Sell to the pumpkin spice latte sipping girls in uggs then.
 
I guess Yosemite will just have to start writing to that blazing fast 5400rpm Drive.

At least HDD could be swapped for SSD. I only use HDD for storage > TB, otherwise this junk would end up in the bucket before I would even power on my machine. So much love for environment, why produce this garbage and make pollution, knowing it is going to hit the bucket before it sees any use? I do not want to store this junk for warranty either. ebay is contaminated with those useless 2GB Apple RAM modules.
 
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At $500, I would rather sell my old computer and get a brand new one instead of adding more RAM to it. These are not the best processors or graphics in the world. Getting a new computer not only gets you more ram, but a better processor and graphics card.

On a $4,000+ Mac Pro, it is much more convenient to spend $200 on new RAM instead of getting another $4,000+ Mac Pro. Since a 3.5 Hex core Xeon is a lot more future proof than a dual core. And dual Fire Pros are more future proof than Intel graphics

Good for you. My RAM cost less than $100. As I use my Mac Mini for music production, I am not interested in better graphics. The processor is more than adequate for the task, whereas the RAM was inadequate. Please accept that individuals should choose the best course for themselves. Unfortunately Apple are not interested in my choices, just my money.
 
Why use a computer that's using 7 year old technology? That doesn't make sense? Apple typically supports computers for about 7 years for hardware and software support. That's typically the end of a typical lifespan for ANY computer. Why use obsolete outdated hardware just to squeeze a few more years out of it?

HDDs, SSDs, RAM, etc. have what's called MTBF. They aren't meant to last much more than maybe 7 years based on the original MTBF ratings, the cheaper parts usually have lower MTBF and the more expensive parts have longer MTBF. It's just the nature of high tech components.

The typical lifespan is 3 years for ownership. once you go past 3 years, your computer may become less reliable because those drives start wearing out...

I still have a G4 iMac (iLamp), which runs Tiger (great OS) and recently replaced my girlfriend's 2008 MacBook because the display failed. Lucky for her the one I bought had been upgraded to 4GB RAM and 500GB HD. Should last her a couple of years at least.
 
You must be kidding. Apple is using standard memory modules that they purchase from Hynix and the likes. They probably only use first tier memory suppliers, but the RAM modules are not any different.



You can get memory modules with lifetime warranty from first tier memory module manufacturers that is cheaper than Apple's RAM upgrades.



Why do you put so much energy in defending Apple with long-winded explanations? Your arguments are not very convincing. Are you a customer or an employee? Are you happy to pay inflated prices for standard components?

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Thanks for the hint. I'll try that out to reduce the noise... :p

Depending on the module they use for a specific model, it can vary. On the newer memory, they still have testing criteria that must be met, if it doesn't meet, that memory gets sold for less on the open market under the 3rd parties name and then it's may not be as reliable. Now, in the case of Crucial, I had the memory work, but it got flaky after a year along with a friend of mine and we both got the same memory at the same time and his memory was flaky within a week when mine got flaky. I got the replacement memory and it didn't work, they sent out another replacement and that worked, but I don't know for how long since i got rid of Crucial memory and switched to Apple memory and increased the amount and I never had a problem since and my computer lasted 7 years. The Crucial memory originally only worked for about a year.

Now, if you want to save some money buying 3rd party memory, that's your business, but if you have any problems and you get Apple to help trouble shoot the system, they'll tell you to swap the memory out for Apple memory because they can't help you with 3rd party and that whole ordeal is worth spending the extra money. I hate having to constantly swap memory, that to me is a waste of time. And no, there have been many cases where Apple supplied memory used less chips that were higher densities than 3rd party memory, I've seen countless examples of that throughout the years, so even though they are using top tier mfg, they specifically call out for specific chip densities, speed, etc.
 
The fact that you are so out of touch with reality shows that you have never spent any time around people who are in such unfortunate situations that they are just happy to have the free phone that is provided to them by the few companies who will offer the government subsidized program to those who need a phone.

You know what... it's never a cheap garbage phone that they hand out. Well, except the blackberries that they gave out one year. Even those were good phones, just had lots of people complaining about the signal strength (dropped calls at inconvenient times).

Each year, it's a different phone that is issued. It's whatever they want to promote that year. It's a good strategy. There are a lot of people who rely on this program in order to have any phone at all. Them walking around with a particular phone adds to the appearance of that phone being popular. It's the people who are in the program who recognize other people who are in the program by the specific model and color of the phones they see come out of other people's pockets. But, your average consumer sees tons of these phones around, and thinks oh, that's cool, look how many people have these, I want one too.

No, people on this program aren't busy playing games with the phones. They don't come with data plans. But, everything else works. It's just a phone. Something they are happy to have. They don't care what it is, just that they have one.

Having something like a phone helps them to put out job applications, and be able to receive calls for interviews.

Now, if you could come down out of your penthouse for a while, and dare to place yourself among the people who really are struggling, as in those who are genuinely struggling to feed their families, not those who just think they don't have enough money, but the ones who really are appreciative to just be somewhere, anywhere, happy that they have a home, and are fighting to do everything they can to better their situation... now, if you can bear to sink so low as to humble yourself and speak with them, get to know them personally, listen to them, maybe and just maybe you might learn something about reality.

You claim that poor people don't need technology and computers? You know what? In this world, they aren't getting ahead without it. And, they'll do what they have to do to provide their children a chance to keep up, learn, and have a shot to live a better life.

You speak the insensitive shallow words that you hide behind to pretend that you're not part of the problem. People like you love to spout things like poor people are just lazy bums, if they got off their butt they could make as much money as you, etc... such insensitive, shallow, and detached thought processes are exactly the problem.

Let me ask you a question... When was the last time you were living on the street and sacrificed all the food you had managed to come up with to someone else you stumbled upon who hadn't eaten for a longer time period than yourself?

You know what? It might surprise you that some of us here come from that life. Some of us have lived it, and spent years fighting against all odds to slowly elevate ourselves from being destitute and doing what we had to do for our kids in the mean time. And, those of us who lived through it, remember those who are still there and do what we can for them.

Enjoy your arrogant self centered perspective while you can. You had just better hope that when something takes you down, that the person who finds you is more compassionate than you are.

Yeah you're kinda annoying me with your tldr posts and your "I'm so great I care about people". Listen, bottom line is most poor people are poor due to choices they made involving drugs or alcohol. They do it to themselves. The fact remains is that they don't need some super upgradeable computer and a basic old computer that most people here wouldn't touch would be more than enough. As for the iPhones, again they just need a cheap flip phone which is more than enough. Most technology is a luxury (meaning you don't need it, it's a privilege) And I'm sure you can judge my life so well, all I know is I'll never be dumb enough to be "down" like you put it. When low life's like you go about wishing bad luck on some random guy on the internet then I know you don't have a single ounce of any counter argument. I'm done here, you just made me so mad with your first comment I had to put you in your place. Don't forget your fedora if you want to be enlightened :^)
 
Depending on the module they use for a specific model, it can vary. On the newer memory, they still have testing criteria that must be met, if it doesn't meet, that memory gets sold for less on the open market under the 3rd parties name and then it's may not be as reliable. Now, in the case of Crucial, I had the memory work, but it got flaky after a year along with a friend of mine and we both got the same memory at the same time and his memory was flaky within a week when mine got flaky. I got the replacement memory and it didn't work, they sent out another replacement and that worked, but I don't know for how long since i got rid of Crucial memory and switched to Apple memory and increased the amount and I never had a problem since and my computer lasted 7 years. The Crucial memory originally only worked for about a year.

Now, if you want to save some money buying 3rd party memory, that's your business, but if you have any problems and you get Apple to help trouble shoot the system, they'll tell you to swap the memory out for Apple memory because they can't help you with 3rd party and that whole ordeal is worth spending the extra money. I hate having to constantly swap memory, that to me is a waste of time. And no, there have been many cases where Apple supplied memory used less chips that were higher densities than 3rd party memory, I've seen countless examples of that throughout the years, so even though they are using top tier mfg, they specifically call out for specific chip densities, speed, etc.

Funny that Apple memory works so much better in Apple platforms - other quality memory works flawless in millions of PC's for more than 10 years.

BTW, I upgraded my MBP with Corsair memory - works very well, far more than 1 year already.
 
Yeah you're kinda annoying me with your tldr posts and your "I'm so great I care about people". Listen, bottom line is most poor people are poor due to choices they made involving drugs or alcohol. They do it to themselves. The fact remains is that they don't need some super upgradeable computer and a basic old computer that most people here wouldn't touch would be more than enough. As for the iPhones, again they just need a cheap flip phone which is more than enough. Most technology is a luxury (meaning you don't need it, it's a privilege) And I'm sure you can judge my life so well, all I know is I'll never be dumb enough to be "down" like you put it. When low life's like you go about wishing bad luck on some random guy on the internet then I know you don't have a single ounce of any counter argument. I'm done here, you just made me so mad with your first comment I had to put you in your place. Don't forget your fedora if you want to be enlightened :^)

So funny that you think you've put me in my place with more of your uneducated stereotypes. Whatever helps you sleep well at night.

Never wished you misfortune, you appear to read only what you want to, and make up what isn't there. What I said is you'd better hope someone is more compassionate than you, if you should ever find that you've fallen from your ego pedestal.

So easy to sit and blame drugs and alcohol for their misfortune... so short sighted and such an unjustified stereotype.

And, apparently you think you're smart enough that you'll never suffer misfortune.... you know, I remember someone who said that to me once... they thought they were so secure in their high paying job, multiple college degrees, on a path of extreme success... you don't want to know where they are now....
 
Thanks for the detailed and logical explanation. You eventually convinced me to trust Apple's stringent quality control and gladly accept Apple's inflated RAM pricing. ;) I was wondering if I could swap out the memory modules in my PC so that I can enjoy Apple quality. :p

Depending on the module they use for a specific model, it can vary. On the newer memory, they still have testing criteria that must be met, if it doesn't meet, that memory gets sold for less on the open market under the 3rd parties name and then it's may not be as reliable. Now, in the case of Crucial, I had the memory work, but it got flaky after a year along with a friend of mine and we both got the same memory at the same time and his memory was flaky within a week when mine got flaky. I got the replacement memory and it didn't work, they sent out another replacement and that worked, but I don't know for how long since i got rid of Crucial memory and switched to Apple memory and increased the amount and I never had a problem since and my computer lasted 7 years. The Crucial memory originally only worked for about a year.

Now, if you want to save some money buying 3rd party memory, that's your business, but if you have any problems and you get Apple to help trouble shoot the system, they'll tell you to swap the memory out for Apple memory because they can't help you with 3rd party and that whole ordeal is worth spending the extra money. I hate having to constantly swap memory, that to me is a waste of time. And no, there have been many cases where Apple supplied memory used less chips that were higher densities than 3rd party memory, I've seen countless examples of that throughout the years, so even though they are using top tier mfg, they specifically call out for specific chip densities, speed, etc.
 
Ok so what you are saying is by reducing the price by $100 they are actually greedy cash grabbers... :eek:

Yeah, last time my ram went bad out of warrantee that massive logic board was hard to replace. I feel your pain. This is going to be a problem for many.

Yes, because its criminal to have 4GB of non replaceable ram and no SSD... The $100 price drop doesn't matter because its not going to last as long/people will have to pay apple for more ram at the beginning etc.
 
Yes, because its criminal to have 4GB of non replaceable ram and no SSD... The $100 price drop doesn't matter because its not going to last as long/people will have to pay apple for more ram at the beginning etc.

im guessing it will serve simpler audiences, school children, my mom, and most of the world outside of the superpowers very well at it's lower price point. you have to remember apple is entering developing markets with it's portfolio now and there is an expectation to deliver something at every level. that and there is an indirect requirement therefore to reduce service calls because someone tried re-wiring their mac mini because the lid just opens for easy access. simplify it, and lock it down at a low enough price point where anyone anywhere can be a part of the ecosystem.
 
im guessing it will serve simpler audiences, school children, my mom, and most of the world outside of the superpowers very well at it's lower price point. you have to remember apple is entering developing markets with it's portfolio now and there is an expectation to deliver something at every level. that and there is an indirect requirement therefore to reduce service calls because someone tried re-wiring their mac mini because the lid just opens for easy access. simplify it, and lock it down at a low enough price point where anyone anywhere can be a part of the ecosystem.

With that CPU and that amount of RAM plus the uber slow 5400RPM platter hard disk, the base model is going to be slower than an iPad for "school children, soccer mom, most of the world outside of the superpowers" :eek:
 
The fact that you make these kinds of stupid assumptions about me without any investigation or background tells us everything we know about you, along with your user level and join date.

I work for a consultancy company specialised in strategy and decision sciences. I'm a senior consultant in the IT advisory group. Please don't try to tell me what a "real" computer user is. :rolleyes:
LOL. Too funny. This from the guy who said no evidence or research was required to know that Apple would never release a watch >$1000 and that the iWatch would not be a fashion item. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Oh yeah, and you claim to be able to admit when you're wrong. I'll believe that when I see it.
 
There were nothing wrong with the way mini was built and sold for over decade. So now you argue that custom produced is better economically vs. mass produced one? Besides, no one was begging Apple to add Thunderbolt 2 - the least item mac-mini owner would ever care.

They are just adding Thunderbolt 2 as it's the latest technology, just like companies have stopped adding USB 2 and replacing it with USB 3. Same concept. I don't think it costs Apple much more anymore to change to TB2 over TB1, so from a cost perspective, it's probably a wash at this point.

For me, I would prefer a more powerful MacMiniPro that had the options available of the entire iMac lineup, but just in a headless unit that was priced in between the MacMini and the MacPro models. I think that would be a great product they should have at this time. I would rather have a headless unit because if there was any problems, it's a LOT easier to bring in just the base unit and not a big 27inch monitor like the iMac. I think it would be cool if Apple brought out a MacProMini that was half as high and had the options of the iMac inside. I think that would make for an interesting product, they could design something like that.
 
Because user-replaceable RAM has been the norm ever since personal consumer computers became a thing. Why? Because it's the easiest, cheapest most efficient and effective upgrade you can do to your computer. RAM has become much cheaper and available in much larger modules just about every year for decades. Your computer is a couple years old now and it came with a midrange amount of RAM when you bought it? Why, for a small fraction of what you paid for the computer, you can near enough quadruple your RAM. Almost free too, in comparison that what the same amount of RAM would have set you back a couple of years ago when you bought that computer.



No, why the hell should I? I'm the customer here, I'll just bring my money elsewhere.

What's been the norm doesn't mean that companies won't change the norm. When computers first came out, they had 5 1/4 floppy drives on personal computers. Single sided at that. Optical drives used to be a norm, 3.5 Inch drives used to be a norm. Just because you are used to one norm doesn't mean that it's always going to be that way.

The industry has been shifting on many levels. They've gone to surface mount because it's cheaper to assemble and test, and more reliable. Sockets are expensive, the labor to install the RAM adds a little more time. Products sometimes get jostled around during shipments where the RAM might not be seated after it's been tossed around. All kinds of ways the memory can not work as well. Too much potential for flaky 3rd party memory, or memory not seated properly, etc. etc. this is their low cost model and they have to cut costs..

I think they should be putting 8GB standard whereas they used to have 4GB standard, but eventually that will change.

They are charging $100 for a 4GB. It's what it is, if they charged much less than that, their margins would go to *****..

4GB is fine for basic users that just use the internet, mail and general apps. It's not a speed demon, but for casual desktop users, it's fine. It's just a basic entry level product that's at least a 64GB processor. At least you're getting a i5. Apple could go even cheaper and go with a i3 and cut the price down to $399, but it would be a slow poke, which is why the i3 Windows computers are junk.

Apple has to cater to a broad audience with these things. But they have the super entry level market which are people on a extreme budget with just the most basic needs like an elementary schools which don't need that much RAM.

I also forgot, I think these things are going to be discounted under the Education discount. So, it would be interesting to see what the educational discount is on these things.
 
Where do you get all that Ritalin from? :cool:
I am truly amazed by your energy to defend :apple:

What's been the norm doesn't mean that companies won't change the norm. When computers first came out, they had 5 1/4 floppy drives on personal computers. Single sided at that. Optical drives used to be a norm, 3.5 Inch drives used to be a norm. Just because you are used to one norm doesn't mean that it's always going to be that way.

Eht irydntus hsa eben inhsftig no namy evlesl. Eyht'ev gone ot ursacfe moutn ebcause ti's hcepaer ot lbesmase dna ttse, adn ermo aerleilb. Cektsos rae sxeepnive, the lbroa ot nistall eht Amr ddas a tillte more teim. Spctoudr msoteimes egt tejsold roanud ngidur epsmhints reewh teh Arm imgth not be satdee eraft ti's neeb otsesd oranud. Lal kinsd fo ywas the mmeryo acn ont rkwo sa ewll. Oot humc nttepoali rof alfky 3rd rapty emmory, or memroy tno stdeae ryplorpe, etc. etc. sith si hteri low stco oemdl dan yteh vhae to utc ocsst..

I ithkn tehy slhoud eb upttnig 8Bg dtsaanrd rsheeaw they used to veha 4Gb tsaandrd, btu yltnuaelev htat liwl acnghe.

They rae cahriggn $100 for a 4Gb. Ti's hawt it is, if ehty dhcarge umch lses ntha hatt, thrie rmniags uowdl go to *****..

4Bg si eifn orf basci eruss atht just eus the intrnete, mlia adn enelgar paps. Ti's ont a esped medon, but orf ulasac sdekotp usesr, it's ifne. Ti's just a bisca nteyr lvele prdouct atht's ta etlsa a 64Gb rroposces. Ta aelts you'er tginetg a i5. Plape could og even hapcree and go iwth a i3 and tuc hte price wodn to $399, tbu it woudl eb a wslo kope, ihwhc is yhw the i3 Oidwwns somecrutp are kjun.

Leppa ahs ot actre ot a raobd audeinec whti eseth ihtnsg. Utb ythe avhe hte psuer tneyr elevl mekrta hwihc rea opeple no a emretxe ubdegt ithw jstu the most baisc eends klie na areeltymen shcloos hcihw don't ened htta uhmc Rma.

I salo roftog, I ikthn tehes ithgns rea oging to eb uidnetodsc dnreu hte Deauctnoi tnisdocu. Os, it wuodl be inntigrstee to ese awht the dauenaioctl idscount si no hetse hitsng.
 
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While all sounds like it makes some sense (for the base model), they could have hit a much lower price (and still satisfied this potential demographic) with:

Cheap i3 processor and HD4600 graphics
500GB HD
Remove the TB2 ports. [No-one in this demographic is going to purchase TB accessories, when they can get a USB3 version at 1/2 the cost.]

Instead, they slotted in a really *expensive* *ultra-low-power* core i5 and included unnecessary external ports. I'll wager that the same demographic of emerging users are just going to use the HDMI connection (and possibly have to purchase an HDMI>DVI or VGA connector!).

Why?

As others have stated, at the same processor cost, they could have used a Quad Core i7 with Iris Pro! So in terms of cost-cutting the new entry-level design makes no sense whatsoever.

im guessing it will serve simpler audiences, school children, my mom, and most of the world outside of the superpowers very well at it's lower price point. you have to remember apple is entering developing markets with it's portfolio now and there is an expectation to deliver something at every level. that and there is an indirect requirement therefore to reduce service calls because someone tried re-wiring their mac mini because the lid just opens for easy access. simplify it, and lock it down at a low enough price point where anyone anywhere can be a part of the ecosystem.
 
Another reason why upgrading ram is so important....I just saw a you tube video showing that just running Yosemite on your Mac (with no other programs running) uses almost 7 GB of ram. They opened the activity monitor and it shows almost 7 GB of memory being used. So it appears that Yosemite is a memory hog. So if you only get a 8 GB Mini, that only leaves you with 1 GB free of memory. If you think you don't need 16 GB of ram, think again.

Any reason why my 2007 MBP runs Yosemite and Windows XP using parallels all with 4GB of ram with no issues? I am unhappy about this Mini as well but if you are going to post like this at least post the link so it can be verified.
 
Any reason why my 2007 MBP runs Yosemite and Windows XP using parallels all with 4GB of ram with no issues? I am unhappy about this Mini as well but if you are going to post like this at least post the link so it can be verified.

What software are you running in xp? I run xp in vmware fusion with 8GB and I'm constantly running out of ram.
 
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