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Sorry to disappoint you, but I have been analyzing Apple as a company to understand how they do things since the 80's.

yeah, I know other companies have i3 based products, but Apple is done with 32 Bit code and they are NOT going to produce a line of computers that loses money.

Why do you think companies that mfg PC's can't bring in more than 6% Net Profits? they lose too much money on the low end products. They are more concerned with market share instead of profits.

I've got 30+ years in the IT industry along with a finance, procurement management and technical degree, and I've been analyzing Apple's business model since the mid 80's, when I learned what to look at. I have friends over the years that have worked at Apple in various positions and I have worked on their products as a tech in the mid 80's for a couple of years, I have also worked for top Apple resellers selling tons of Apple products to corporate and government accounts. Seriously, Apple has no use for the ultra low end, that's why they developed the iPad is because they can't make any money from cheap laptops and desktops. That's why the iPads start at $250. They simply don't want to en up with small profit margins.

Best practices for an iT department is to keep the product for 3 years. The lifespan might be longer if it's taken care of, but I'm talking about the average lifespan of the first owner. I worked for one of the largest global resellers back in the late 90's for over 3 years and we all got trained in Best Practices for managing IT. That's what they indicated was what Corporations should do to manage their desktop and laptops. That's how I've been trained. My last iMac I had for 3 years and it was barely usable. It functionally worked, but the parts become more scarce and at some point Apple ceases to have parts on hand.

If Apple only offers a 3 year service contract, then a company would have to find someone else to offer a company extended service contracts and it just gets too costly from that standpoint. That's why a BUSINESS should turn their desktop/laptops as soon as the 3 year service contract is up. That's what they call BEST PRACTICE. I know a lot of people in IT don't manage their IT using Best Practice approach, but some do.

Yeah, I know some businesses use PCs that are older than 3 years, but they aren't as usable. I know on in particular that's still using XP and their systems are constantly breaking down, the employees hate using XP.

Mainframes are a little different as they get extended service contracts for them through IBM and the mfg that sold them the units. It's all about how long they can get service contracts.

you keep actually bringing in "red herrings" based on incorrect facts

1, I never talked about 32b v 64b. Considering you are 100% dead wrong about i3's being 32bit. they are haswell architecture and feature the 64bit extensions. Not sure what relevance that has, or if you're being purposely obtuse.

2. Best practice is a misnomer and doesn't accurately reflect true business life. I would love to have all my servers, hardware and what not replaced every 1 year, nevermind 3. But business realities are that isn't going to happen. in any enterprise, where you have to weigh cost to benefits, simply replacing hardware because it's 3 years old is a wasteful practice. Any IT guy I have that recommends that just because "its 3 years old" isn't going to last long. if you can't show the cost/benefit on paper, you're wrong.


As for "aren't as usable". Who are you to decide? if a database query on a client workstation is isntantaneous on 5 year old hardware, and is still instantaenous today, why replace the hardware? If there is no tangible benefit to replacement, just because "it's newer", you aren't making a case for yourself.

you can claim "best practices" all you want. Best practices goes out the window the second that financial decisions and actual real hands on practicality comes into play. Simply put, in the OSx world, 3 years has been the arbitrary standard Apple has decided to support their OS. Things don't magically stop working because it's 3 years or older.

our software for example, we only suppot for 2 iterations. Guess what, clients still use 10 year old versions of it, because it works still. That doesn't suddenly mean, "oh its 10 years old, YOU HAVE TO REPLACE NOW!!!!"
 
...
As it is the only thing they look genuinely concerned about is the added cost of buying the RAM from Apple rather than sourcing it themselves - that's fair enough I get that.

Of course it's always about the price of ram, that is the main point of people complaining, if you could get proper prices from apple for ram then it would be an easier pill to swallow, but apple always nickel and dimes you on RAM and Hard Drive. BTW every-time a new OS comes around you tend to need a little bit more ram for things to run better.
 
I don't have an issue running Yosemite on my 2009 Mac Mini with 2GB of RAM
Then you would disagree with the assessment the other gentleman made.

Although I would not consider the performance of your particular model mini adequate under any circumstances.
 
Of course it's always about the price of ram, that is the main point of people complaining, if you could get proper prices from apple for ram then it would be an easier pill to swallow, but apple always nickel and dimes you on RAM and Hard Drive. BTW every-time a new OS comes around you tend to need a little bit more ram for things to run better.

Not only this ... you get Apple Pay - you need the NFC Chip for it, you get contiuity - you need Bluetooth 4.0 for it, you get the CoreStorage LVM, mainly for data encryprion in private environments for your single hard disk or SSD - you need a CPU with the AES instruction set built in, you get a health app and need a motion coprocessor for it ... the list is long and also Yosemite does not look very well if you have no retina display. And finally they cancel BootCamp support for 4 years old machines, without any technical reason.

It's very subtile what Apple is doing to let you think your hardware gets outdated. However, everybody can choose to be part of the game or not.

There is no more need, that every system must be twice as fast than in the previous year, Information Technology does not change so fast for quite a while already and the "killer-applications" are still missing. It's all artificial.
 
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We can talk BUSINESS but then you should consider:

1) Apple is not existing in Enterprise Environments
2) A product lifecycle of 3 years is not acceptable in terms of costs. The products must be evaluated, tested, integrated into the current infrastucture and rolled out. These efforts exceed by far the costs of new PC's.
3) Large companies implemented XP, skipped Vista, implemented W7, skipped W8/8.1 and will probably implement W10 again. This does not fit to your 3 years "Best Practice".

...

4) All this is offtopic and has nothing to do with the soldered RAM and Apple.

You are missing the point. Best Practices is talking about HARDWARE and SUPPORT costs. You changed it to what OS they are using. I just mentioned XP because it's not longer supported by MS.

You obviously have NO CLUE how the big league players that know how to manage their business.

As far as Apple? I am just relating how one of the best run and most efficiently run computer mfg run their business when comparing to the PC mfg that are losing money, selling their businesses, and running their companies into the ground because of bad management decisions and how they sell too many models that lose money.

You obviously have no finance background and don't understand how to analyze a business.

And where did you get that 3 years is not acceptable for a desktop/laptop lifecycle? I got this from top consulting, PC mfg and global resellers that help businesses manage their IT staff. one of the companies I worked for is one of the largest companies in the world that has business processes down to an art form that other companies use as their model for running their businesses. Do you have Six Sigma training? I do. It's what GE has been using for years and other businesses are leveraging their business process management practices to become more efficiently run companies. The PC industry certainly needs help if these PC mfg are going to survive. Apple has the highest Net Profit Margin out of all of the PC mfg, and they are running their business much like how IBM and Compaq used to run theirs before they stopped losing money in terms of what profit margins they required.

Yeah, I know it's off topic, but you started to get me off topic by some of your ridiculous comments and false personal accusations that simply aren't true.

Apple is NOT going to sell computers that don't make decent profit margins and they moved away form 32 Bit computing for laptops and desktops and they are 2/3 of the way through their transition on the iOS platform.

I don't know why you are defending the PC industry that's been running their respective businesses right into bankruptcy. HP, Dell, and the rest of the PC mfg aren't making reasonable profits, if they don't shape up, they'll be sold off for not much money or they'll simply shut their doors if they can't find a way to turn around their business or find a buyer. Look at how long Google had Motorola Mobility. They are selling that unit for a HUGE loss. They can't figure out how to make profit because they sell phones that don't sell well and make a decent profit, just like the majority of the Android phone/tablet makers, most of them are losing money. Why? They are going after the low end market which loses money. Real simply deductive reasoning behind it. Apple doesn't go after the ultra low end for that very reason. Am I defending Apple? I''m defending their mentality for running a profitable business.
 
Big savings on Quad-Core i7

After such disappointing Mac Mini news from Apple I purchased two new 2012 Quad-Core i7s on sale - awesome little machines. Have added 16GB Crucial RAM to each, plus extra Samsung 250GB SSDs with adapter cable and have still saved £640 by not buying two of the new 2014 i7 Dual-Core models. Okay, so I don't get Iris graphics, but I have Quad-Cores and can now buy a third Mini and new monitors if I want to!
 
i3s are 64-bit CPUs.

You're right, I was thinking the Centrino crap. The problem with the i3's is they are just too slow for running these OSs. Windows 8 runs dog slow on them. I've used it on a friend's system, it was unbearable, completely not usable from my standpoint. I've never seen OS X run on it, but I don't think it's a good enough processor, and the other thing is, do they have Thunderbolt chip sets with i3's? If not, Apple won't use it. Apple adopted Thunderbolt throughout their entire product line and they won't go backwards.

PC = '90's mentality.. The PC industry is stuck in old outdated ways of thinking. They think that market share is more important than making a reasonable profit. they'll be running their companies right out of business.
 
Then you would disagree with the assessment the other gentleman made.

Although I would not consider the performance of your particular model mini adequate under any circumstances.

Yes. It handles it well. Not great but well enough that it isn't a nuisance for me. Then again I also have a vast amount of patience :cool::p
 
For the folks that use MacMinis

as music servers, they do need Thunderbolt. Why? Firewire is pretty much a dead technology moving forward.

Why use Thunderbolt? First off it's faster, daisy chain able and the MOST important reason is that when you use a computer connected to an USB DAC, which is what a lot of these MacMinis are being used with, REQUIRE a hard drive that's NOT connected to the same USB bus. You get bad performance in your audio playback because you are saturating the data path with audio and hard drive data and it just gets ugly.

Some of us prefer our content on a RAID box either through Thunderbolt or a NAS over the network. In my situation, i chose a Thunderbolt RAID 5 setup. I got rid of all USB external drives earlier this year and couldn't be happier. Both of my USB bus powered drives kept on unmounting and my music system was getting poor sound performance and drop outs due to the USB drives. So, I had to get off USB drives.
 
With that CPU and that amount of RAM plus the uber slow 5400RPM platter hard disk, the base model is going to be slower than an iPad for "school children, soccer mom, most of the world outside of the superpowers" :eek:

and it costs about the same, so whats your point? they are not selling the hardware really, they are selling entry into the ecosystem which is easily worth the cost of a mini if you are on a limited budget. get a real computer if you want real power and upgrade-ability and stop pondering toys like the mini.
 
you keep actually bringing in "red herrings" based on incorrect facts

1, I never talked about 32b v 64b. Considering you are 100% dead wrong about i3's being 32bit. they are haswell architecture and feature the 64bit extensions. Not sure what relevance that has, or if you're being purposely obtuse.

2. Best practice is a misnomer and doesn't accurately reflect true business life. I would love to have all my servers, hardware and what not replaced every 1 year, nevermind 3. But business realities are that isn't going to happen. in any enterprise, where you have to weigh cost to benefits, simply replacing hardware because it's 3 years old is a wasteful practice. Any IT guy I have that recommends that just because "its 3 years old" isn't going to last long. if you can't show the cost/benefit on paper, you're wrong.


As for "aren't as usable". Who are you to decide? if a database query on a client workstation is isntantaneous on 5 year old hardware, and is still instantaenous today, why replace the hardware? If there is no tangible benefit to replacement, just because "it's newer", you aren't making a case for yourself.

you can claim "best practices" all you want. Best practices goes out the window the second that financial decisions and actual real hands on practicality comes into play. Simply put, in the OSx world, 3 years has been the arbitrary standard Apple has decided to support their OS. Things don't magically stop working because it's 3 years or older.

our software for example, we only suppot for 2 iterations. Guess what, clients still use 10 year old versions of it, because it works still. That doesn't suddenly mean, "oh its 10 years old, YOU HAVE TO REPLACE NOW!!!!"

Get off the subject of SOFTWARE. PLEASE. I'm NOT DISCUSSING SOFTWARE for this discussion, I was just merely pointed out that XP is DEAD. Officially from Microsoft, there is NOT MORE SUPPORT for XP from Microsoft. NO more security updates, not more NOTHING. A specialized custom app is a totally different issue. COMPLETELY.

Here's what you get with a SUPPORT contract through HP, Apple or any major PC mfg that offers support contracts.

You get phone support and break fix support.

When you contract is up, you lose both of those tied to that computer. So, you have to either find another company to offer the same QUALITY of Phone support and break Fix support that's similar to what you were paying. If you can't get that to extend the life another year, then dump your crap, sell it to a company that will give you some amount of residual value and buy new computers. It's VERY simple.

It's NOT a Red Herring or some other BS that you are conjuring up. With these newer IOS mobile devices, some companies might switch every two years of ownership since that's the length of the AppleCare plus and that will drive the decision making for mobile devices and how long a company will use them.

Now, in terms of OS to run? I had customers that wouldn't switch to the newer version of Windows until after Service Pack 2, which is two years after the OS got announced. Why? They had too much custom software that had to be tested and in their environment, they had to test the software and their standard PC models they chose. Plus Microsoft just simply took a long time to remove the major bugs, typically as long as 3 years until it was stable enough.

Apple has a COMPLETELY different approach to OS versioning. They don't completely change the UI as drastically, so they are TYPICALLY easier and faster to adopt a newer version of OS X, which is why you are seeing almost 90% adoption rate amongst Apple users. Microsoft would give their right testical to have that fast of an adoption rate, but they can't.

In terms of applications and custom applications? That's a whole other examination. Some companies are still running software that's not web enabled, while they might like it, it's still an older business model and some companies just have a difficult time adopting and adapting to how the rest of the world operates, but I would have to examine that aspect of the business seperately.

In the Enterprise Software realm, that's server based software so there's nothing to run on the desktop and that software was typically implemented either on a bunch of 2U servers and they ramped up as needed, or they might get one of these big servers with tons of storage and CPUs and just add more as needed. But that software was specifically sold as a 4 year contract with yearly support contracts, but again, we are talking about an Enterprise based software app vs hardware. We had our own internally produced ROI calculators that were specially written around THIS business model rather than a ROI calculator that was tailored to examining Desktop/Laptop hardware lifecycle.

Let me ask you a question, compared to the rest of the industry, is the company you are with more, less or equal to the rest of your competitors in terms profitability? If the company is more profitable than your competitors that are in essentially the same business, than you're doing fine. If it's the same, then that might be a good signal, and if doing worse, than the business has problems.

I didn't say replace your servers every year, what the best practices ROI calculators would do is they would run the scenarios for what is more COSTLY and it worked out that based on the CUSTOMERS costs 3 years was a typical lifecycle they would have to adopt. If you want to run them longer, than at least look at the actual costs involved, that's why they use these calculators because every business is different, but there are things they can look at when they analyze lots of different businesses and look at the support costs, break fix, etc. It's not a simply calculation.

Have you ever worked with a top IT management company ROI calculator to see what the cost scenarios are? If you haven't, then I highly advise that you do. There are soft and hard costs, but most IT people forget about the soft costs because they are trained in financial analysis. They are trained in how to get sometime up and running or fixed from a software/hardware perspective. But they are rarely trained in analyzing the business aspect of running the IT group.

I would venture to guess that MOST companies don't know how to manage their IT. Why? Because they have been signing contracts with companies like IBM, EDS, HP, and other large consulting companies to take over their IT Help Staff because they couldn't manage it themselves.
 
and it costs about the same, so whats your point? they are not selling the hardware really, they are selling entry into the ecosystem which is easily worth the cost of a mini if you are on a limited budget. get a real computer if you want real power and upgrade-ability and stop pondering toys like the mini.

The problem is, Apple doesn't currently sell a "real computer".

Options:
1.Mac Mini, uses ULV laptop components. non upgradeable. now being considered "entry level". performance will be on par with their Macbook Air lineup.

2. Mac Pro. Hi end systems, using server class CPU's and workstation class GPU's. High buy in cost, considered extremely overkill for most moderate uses.

3. iMac. Decent midrange performance. little to no expandibility. Built in display that cannot be seperated from the computer. Many users do not wish to purchase all in ones.


Appe does not provide any mid range computer currently that does not bundle in a display. Meaning, for those you tell to just "buya real computer". Apple doesn't sell one. All most people who are complaining here want is a desktop class Mac.
 
The problem is, Apple doesn't currently sell a "real computer".

Options:
1.Mac Mini, uses ULV laptop components. non upgradeable. now being considered "entry level". performance will be on par with their Macbook Air lineup.

2. Mac Pro. Hi end systems, using server class CPU's and workstation class GPU's. High buy in cost, considered extremely overkill for most moderate uses.

3. iMac. Decent midrange performance. little to no expandibility. Built in display that cannot be seperated from the computer. Many users do not wish to purchase all in ones.


Apple does not provide any mid range computer currently that does not bundle in a display. Meaning, for those you tell to just "buy a real computer". Apple doesn't sell one. All most people who are complaining here want is a desktop class Mac.

in this case mid-range being the mini already loaded to it's max spec. no they don't sell a mid-range not all in one computer that lets you toy around on the inside, unless for you the MacPro entry model is considered too expensive already. most likely they do not see the market for that particular flavor of computing, being someone who is cheap and wants custom upgrade-ability using their own peripherals. go hackintosh then, that is your option if you want to play in the apple ecosystem being in the market you are in... you and a handful of others posting to this thread. it is clear this sort of product does not help their bottom line in any way... something dell, et al. fight with themselves about in boardrooms everyday i am sure.

another possible option for you is to go used and get a decent MacPro from last year on ebay at a discount.
 
I just did a quick look at OWC & Crucial for 2X8gb RAM upgrades (PC3-12800 DDR3) and am seeing prices between $175 - $200. I absolutely know that Apple gets a better price than I would, but retail is around the price that Apple is charging for the upgrade.

Please note that Apple is charging $200 for an upgrade from 8GB to 16GB. Charging $200 for a difference of 8GB is more than double of market price.

I think the real issue is that people are always certain that they MIGHT upgrade a machine in the future, so I'll buy the low end config and then in some period of time upgrade the RAM. What Apple's moves are doing are requiring us to think about it today. I don't see really what the big deal is...

As mentioned before by several people, soldered RAM would not be an issue if it was offered at reasonable prices. The combination of eliminating the option of upgrading RAM with 3rd party modules and charging inflated prices is unacceptable for many customers.

Perhaps these configurations and costs are most advantageous to what I suspect is Apple's largest customer on these machines: itself. I suspect that Apple is jamming these new data centers full of these motherboards and want to hit specific power consumption numbers and we, the consumers, get to buy them.

I also suspect that Apple is either taking on Intel failed stock CPU's and/or using their own assembly failures. These are not bad CPU's per se, they just fail the qual step on power (typically). This saves them a ton of money and makes their COGS very appealing.

And lastly, a previous poster pointed out that this release seems like a Plan B...betting that there's something with a Broadwell in it, maybe with a new industrial design. Intel isn't shipping the Broadwell line anytime soon, so it was time to ship this.

Purely my thoughts/opinions....

The speculation that the current Mac Mini is an interim solution until Broadwell is available is not more than a guess or wishful thinking at the moment. Anyway, I don't think that Apple will move away from soldered RAM. They started using soldered RAM in the low end MacBook Pro and iMac and got away with it as the average Joe probably doesn't know what he is buying. In contrary, looking at the numbers Apple is very successful as Mac sales is soaring. Apple is using their power and brand equity to push products into the market that are not necessarily made to last forever, but increase their profit margin. Don't get me wrong, they make a lot of good products, but some products are simply not offering good value from my perspective as customer. Therefore, I decided to not buy products that limit or prevent me from upgrading or extending the life of that product (=built-in obsolescence or lifespan-limiting design). I do not limit this to Apple products.
 
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What you are describing is not a music server (e.g. an iTunes server), you are describing someone using their MacMini for music production etc. This is a specialist use of the mini.

I agree fully here that FW (now TB) is required for such tasks. But just as important is a lot of RAM and a quad core processor for handling realtime effects/loops etc.

The new dual core minis are not going to be as good for music production (what you call a music server apparently) as the outgoing 2012 i7 Quad.

as music servers, they do need Thunderbolt. Why? Firewire is pretty much a dead technology moving forward.

Why use Thunderbolt? First off it's faster, daisy chain able and the MOST important reason is that when you use a computer connected to an USB DAC, which is what a lot of these MacMinis are being used with, REQUIRE a hard drive that's NOT connected to the same USB bus. You get bad performance in your audio playback because you are saturating the data path with audio and hard drive data and it just gets ugly.

Some of us prefer our content on a RAID box either through Thunderbolt or a NAS over the network. In my situation, i chose a Thunderbolt RAID 5 setup. I got rid of all USB external drives earlier this year and couldn't be happier. Both of my USB bus powered drives kept on unmounting and my music system was getting poor sound performance and drop outs due to the USB drives. So, I had to get off USB drives.
 
I am running OSx Yosemite currently on 2gb of ram. it is currently using 1.7GB of 2GB. When I have web browser open, it will use 200ish of SWAP.

This shows me that the core of Yosemite can operate quite succesffully within 2gb of physical RAM, and it's only when running additional applications that I run into memory restrictions.

Great. We'll be fine so long as we don't run any memory intensive applications.

My 2011 4GB Mac Mini would frequently freeze when I ran Logic Pro X. I upgraded easily and cheaply and now have 16GB (non-Apple RAM, of course) and the problems are gone.

I won't buy a Mac Mini again.
 
[...]
I won't buy a Mac Mini again.

Same here. I say NO to built-in obsolescence or lifespan-limiting design.
Therefore, the Mac Mini remains crossed off my shopping list unless Apple either lowers the prices for RAM upgrades to market price level or allows users to upgrade RAM. I am not confident that this will happen though. Bye bye :apple:
 
I just did a quick look at OWC & Crucial for 2X8gb RAM upgrades (PC3-12800 DDR3) and am seeing prices between $175 - $200. I absolutely know that Apple gets a better price than I would, but retail is around the price that Apple is charging for the upgrade.

Please note that Apple is charging $200 for an upgrade from 8GB to 16GB. Charging $200 for a difference of 8GB is more than double of market price.

Amazon seems to show more like the $150 range for name-brand SO-DIMMs. In any case, you are looking at roughly $9-$10/GB. Given Apple's situation, they likely pay no more than, say $8/GB, and quite likely less, albeit LPDDR3 may have a premium. But they mark that up to $25/GB, or over 200%. Effectively, people buying more memory (and storage and CPU) from Apple are subsidizing the lower-end purchasers. The base unit probably represents a relatively low profit, and Apple reaches their goals via the rapacious profits on the upgrades.

If you assign a nominal value of $300 to a base unit with no storage or memory, Apple then makes 100-200% margins on the RAM/storage/CPU upgrades it puts into the Minis it sells. Their final margin on the Mini product line depends on what mix of units they sell (and whatever plus/minus between $300 and their actual cost of that stripped-out base unit.
 
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Way to go restricting upgrades for people who haven't got £400-1,000 to spare EVERY TWO YEARS.

Its a matter of time before someone releases a cpu and ram socket upgrade service and good on them.
 
You might have a valid point here, but it sends the wrong message to customers as they crippled the new model. People are rushing out to get hold of the 2012 Mac Mini (So did I). I don't think that this was planned by Apple.

It would be interesting to see a Bill of Materials for the new and old Mac Mini and see what gross margins they have. I couldn't find anything at iSuppli.

[...] Effectively, people buying more memory (and storage and CPU) from Apple are subsidizing the lower-end purchasers. The base unit probably represents a relatively low profit, and Apple reaches their goals via the rapacious profits on the upgrades.

If you assign a nominal value of $300 to a base unit with no storage or memory, Apple then makes 100-200% margins on the RAM/storage/CPU upgrades it puts into the Minis it sells. Their final margin on the Mini product line depends on what mix of units they sell (and whatever plus/minus between $300 and their actual cost of that stripped-out base unit.
 
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I don't want to be a smart aleck, but wasn't that 'Mean Time Between Failures'?



----------

You might have a valid point here, but it sends the wrong message to customers as they crippled the new model. People are rushing out to get hold of the 2012 Mac Mini. I don't think that this was planned by Apple.

It would be interesting to see a Bill of Materials for the new and old Mac Mini and see what gross margins they have. I couldn't find anything at iSuppli.

It's okay - you're right :eek: - thank you, fixed it.
 
So wait a minute... On step 9 of the teardown, ifixit notes the following regarding the RAM...

Samsung K4E8E304EE-EGCE 8 Gb LPDDR3 DRAM (8 Gb x 4 = 32 Gb = 4 GB)

Wtf? If I didn't know any better, I'd say that looks like 4 8GB chips in there on a machine they say is spec'd at 4GB. Is the RAM capacity some sort of firmware limitation? I'm nuts for thinking this...right?

4 8Gb == 1 4GB.
Gigabit vs Gigabyte. 8 Gigabits = 1 Gigabyte.
 
Goodie for you. And how long was it that you replaced the memory? They can get problematic after about a year. A friend of mine and i had the same model iMac, we both installed the same memory from Crucial and both of us had the same issue almost a few weeks apart after a year. We had system crashes and it was both attributed to faulty memory. I had Crucial send me replacement memory, and it didn't freaking work, so they had to send out yet another replacement memory, that worked, but I decided to sell the unit and buy a new computer since the unit was getting old and I usually don't like keeping computers longer than 3 years.

You have a 7 year old MacBookPro? You must like living on the edge. I would have replaced that a LONG time ago just because the newer computers are faster, better graphics, Thunderbolt, USB 3. etc.

I don't use that anymore for that reason, hence why I got the mini (for ios development). Other than an odd freezing issue out of sleep, things seem to be working).
 
I don't use that anymore for that reason, hence why I got the mini (for ios development). Other than an odd freezing issue out of sleep, things seem to be working).

I'm sure a mini can do just fine for that, and that still isn't going to change the fact that Apple doesn't want to use socketed RAM on their entry level computers.

I mean, they did lower the price of the computer by $100. I just think the support issues surrounding 3rd party memory issues is one of the driving reasons.

I was doing some checking around with various memory suppliers over the past couple of days and what I see is people falling into one of three categories.
1. DOA
2. Failing after a time period
3. Good

I don't know what the percentages of RAM failure amongst the 3rd parties, but anything over 3% DOA or within the first 3 years is unacceptable, even 1% shouldn't happen. When you have a couple of million units getting sold on a yearly basis, the cost for a mfg to deal with support costs of something (3rd party RAM) that the company didn't sell or install is a lot of support costs. It all adds up from Apple's perspective.

I was looking up what the most common hardware issues for computers are and it's RAM and drives. If they can lower the percentage of customers that don't have RAM issues within the first 3 years just by soldering on the memory, that is a HUGE savings to the company and the customer benefits by not having RAM related issues or lowering that issue greatly.

Now, how much does it cost the user when they have a problem with RAM by having a problematic computer or downtime because they have to wait to get the unit replaced? For some people the cost associated with a RAM issue can get quite costly, especially if it's for business usage. Plus the frustration of having the issue in the first place.

These costs eat up into profits for both the mfg and for the customer. Most people don't recognize the costs associated with bad ram. I know from personal experience that I had my computer down for a period of 3 to 5 days waiting for replacement memory and it took several hours just to trouble shoot the system to define the source of the problem just by doing a variety of tests, swapping out memory, contacting tech support. All of that costs the user money.
 
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