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Personally I think if you are buying in 2017, you should buy a machine that fully supports 2017 media technology, and that happens to be only the 2017 model. What I am talking about is hardware HEVC support. The 2016 has only partial hardware support, and the 2015 has no hardware support. There is also the matter of 4K DRM support for 4K streaming. Right now Apple doesn't support this, but if Apple were to adopt this in 2018, only the 2017 would be supported. The 2015 and 2016 will likely never get support, because they don't have the required hardware.

Thus, I would recommend waiting for a 2017 refurb. Don't be biased against refurbs. Apple's refurbs are like new, always.
 
Personally I think if you are buying in 2017, you should buy a machine that fully supports 2017 media technology, and that happens to be only the 2017 model. What I am talking about is hardware HEVC support. The 2016 has only partial hardware support, and the 2015 has no hardware support. There is also the matter of 4K DRM support for 4K streaming. Right now Apple doesn't support this, but if Apple were to adopt this in 2018, only the 2017 would be supported. The 2015 and 2016 will likely never get support, because they don't have the required hardware.

Thus, I would recommend waiting for a 2017 refurb. Don't be biased against refurbs. Apple's refurbs are like new, always.

Interesting you rbring up the 4k streaming. I was disappointed to find out you couldn't stream the 4k movies on a computer from itunes even if you have the capability. The idea that the functionality is there is great...I would assume (hope?) that they open that up in the future....same goes for 4k imacs.
 
Interesting you rbring up the 4k streaming. I was disappointed to find out you couldn't stream the 4k movies on a computer from itunes even if you have the capability. The idea that the functionality is there is great...I would assume (hope?) that they open that up in the future....same goes for 4k imacs.
I'm perhaps overly optimistic, but my prediction is that Apple will introduce 4K streaming on Macs with iTunes in 2018 with the release of macOS 10.14... but will only support it on 2017 or later Macs.

BTW, Netflix supports this on Windows already, but for CPU support it requires... you guessed it... Intel 7th generation aka Kaby Lake or later. Skylake and earlier are not supported at all.
 
I'm perhaps overly optimistic, but my prediction is that Apple will introduce 4K streaming on Macs with iTunes in 2018 with the release of macOS 10.14... but will only support it on 2017 or later Macs.

BTW, Netflix supports this on Windows already, but for CPU support it requires... you guessed it... Intel 7th generation aka Kaby Lake or later. Skylake and earlier are not supported at all.

Yeah I read about that as well. There's no chance I ever switch back to Windows so just hoping Apple does it...I would think they would considering they're now offering 4k on the itunes store. That's reason enough to go with the 2017 for me considering the price difference.

Just really hope they have a good deal during Black Friday. I'll be using my nephews education discount....hell even the recent deal where you get the beats headphones was good...worst case you can sell them off and get another 100+ off the purcahse.
 
I was thinking about this today and looking at prices for the different models and I think it might make more sense to buy a 21.5" iMac with 512 SSD and 16 RAM for 1900 and a 64 GB iPad pro then the MacBook.

I can get this for 1900.
  • 3.4GHz quad-core 7th-generation Intel Core i5 processor, Turbo Boost up to 3.8GHz
  • 16GB 2400MHz DDR4
  • 512GB SSD
  • Radeon Pro 560 with 4GB video memory
  • Magic Trackpad 2
  • Magic Keyboard - US English
 
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My 13" Air is a 2012, and its hanging around sometimes. I bought my wife an HP Elitebook 13", and it has a lovely keyboard which is waterproofed (or is that coffee proofed), a nice touch screen, and that screen folds 180 degrees so it becomes a heavy pad. It has touch ID, camera ID, and it doesn't insist on two IDs (like Apple have just done to me and I think the new Macbook Pros will insist on this duel password crap). While Windoze sucks I reckon I can get used to it. I couldn't get my wife's iPhone to connect to her Elitebook - but I left it a day and sure enough there's a settings page and it worked just fine. But instead, I'm getting a SIM for her notebook - yep, it has a cellular slot on the side. Plus old USB, plus Thunderbolt 3, plus large card slot (no idea what that is floor but it holds a Wacom touch pen (which my wife doesn't use), but also, its got a photo card slot too, which is really useful IMO.

OK ... do I drop Apple (still got my an old 5.1 Mac Pro with a calibrated Japanese monitor and its now running at over 3.6 Mhz with lots of processors and lots of drives. Scared to give up that beast and also if I print a photo on my A2 printer it comes out just the same as it looked on my screen. Exactly the same ... I still think that's a miracle.

But ... if I stay will Apple, if I buy a 2017 version, its quite costly. Plus, I'll have to add a port device which will give me connections. So I'll need to not loose that device. Plus it costs extra. Plus it won't be as reliable as the ports in a 2015 Macbook pro. Because Apple doesn't bundle such a device with their all Thunder port machines. They should you know.

I also rest my arm very near my wrists on the either side of my touch pad. And I love a nice keyboard. But also - I'm an ex dinghy sailor, a decent one too, and I can still do push ups on my fingers. I've got toughened hands with short stubby fingers and I hammer keyboards. The "A" key on my 2012 Air has lost its text - I wore the text off that key. I've gone through Apple keyboards on my Mac Pro. Curiously though, going through keyboards only started to happen with the alloy keyboards. Those all plastic jobs were tough IMO. I suspect the new 2017 keyboard is not so tough. And the 2016 is probably just a bad design.

People here talk about performance. But the 2015 with a higher card, is pretty much as fast as the latest 2017 with one of its highest spec cards.

The thing I like about the 2017 Macbook Pros, is that they're lighter. But the reason why is less slots, and a mid 70 capacity battery compared to 99.5-watt one. That's where the weight went. The 2017 is cheaper to build. I get the feeling though that the reason Apple don't put a 4 processing CPU in a 13", is beause they want you to pay a lot more. Same too goes for no separate GPUs in a 13". Can't help but think a bigger SSD is going to be much more useful to me, than a smaller one on a 2017. And I reckon the touchpad won't get in my hands' way with a 2015 setup. Plus I like its keyboard, and its a tough keyboard too.

I reckon the 2015 is a better machine, at the end of the day. If they put today's CPUs in it, and a thunderbolt three port in it as well, it would be a better computer than the 2017 model, although heavier. Leave the trackpad as it was. Have an option of a touch screen too. My wife loves her iPad, but couldn't handle a notebook at all. She loves the HP because its got a touch screen. Make that an option on the 2015 Macbook pro with today's CPU and a thunderbolt 3 port. A notebook with the ports you need is a user friendly device. Why pay more for less slots?
 
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If you absolutely need the most performance outputs from these MacBook laptops, than go for the specced out 2017 model. If not, than go for the 2015 model. You save roughly $500 and the specs are very similar to the 2016/2017. The older model does have a 2 year old 4th gen CPU but it's still "new". I don't see any problems recommending an older gen cpu since the performance increase from gen to gen is marginal nowadays. CPU's are only getting more energy efficient and slight performance gains. The performance difference of the 2015 model is marginal compared to the newer models in real life use.

If your still using usb/thunderbolt, and enjoy the convenience of the MagSafe, than you would enjoy the 2015. The 2015 model has a track record of excellent battery life, reliable keyboard, and probably cheaper replacement parts if something breaks. And you also save some moola.

Regarding the 2016/2017 model....
Basically you would be paying an additional +$500 for a brighter screen, usb-c connectivity, half a pound lighter, marginally better performance and a touch bar. If any of those features are a great value to you, then go for the 2016/2017.
 
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It may or may not matter to you but the 2015 and 2016 MacBook Pro can’t play this file even close to smoothly, even with the CPU pegged at 100% usage and the fan at maximum vacuum cleaner mode:

http://4kmedia.org/sony-camping-in-nature-4k-demo/

Yet, my lowly fanless 2017 Core m3 MacBook plays it just fine without heavy CPU usage... as would any 2017 MacBook Pro.

If in 2017 I had bought a new machine that couldn’t play it, Pro or non-Pro, that would majorly irritate me. If budget were an issue, I’d wait to get a refurb 2017.
 
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Man, this discussion has been GREAT. You guys really went all out with the suggestions and opinions. A lot of great information in here for anyone who's on teh fence.

I thought about this long and hard recently and decided it probably makes more sense for me to buy this 2017 imac for 1900 (from apple) and a new ipad pro to replace my old one (which I use religiously but is definitely showing it's age for $500)
  • 3.4GHz quad-core 7th-generation Intel Core i5 processor, Turbo Boost up to 3.8GHz
  • 16GB 2400MHz DDR4
  • 512GB SSD
  • Radeon Pro 560 with 4GB video memory
  • Magic Trackpad 2
  • Magic Keyboard - US English
 
Did you use macbook previously? If so, maybe you need to consider change of magsafe from magnetic in 2015 to USB-C. Also USB3 in 2015 version (if you still have USB devices at home). Otherwise, you can go with 2017 version.

Performance-wise it's very depending on your usage. If you are not programmer nor multimedia geeks, then 2015 or 2017 should not much different. Btw $500 is big money if you dont have money :)

Hi all – was looking for some buying advice.


My 2011 imac is on life support and I’ve decided to go ahead and buy a Macbook Pro during Black Friday. I’m not a computer programmer or graphics designer but I do like spending time on my computer and, after 4 years of saying “I want one”, I’m finally making the plunge and treating myself to a Macbook Pro.


I definitely want a 15” pro strictly for the screen size. I’d also prefer to upgrade to a 512 SSD. Everything else can be standard offering.


I could opt for a 2015 Macbook Pro (approx. $2k), a 2016 Macbook Pro ($2099) from B&H Photo or the 2017 Macbook Pro ($2500).


Any thoughts on what the best route is? I’ve heard about issues with the keyboard. Ideally I’d like to future proof as much as possible but the differences, particularly between the 2016 and 2017 are minimal at best.
 
Man, this discussion has been GREAT. You guys really went all out with the suggestions and opinions. A lot of great information in here for anyone who's on teh fence.

I thought about this long and hard recently and decided it probably makes more sense for me to buy this 2017 imac for 1900 (from apple) and a new ipad pro to replace my old one (which I use religiously but is definitely showing it's age for $500)
  • 3.4GHz quad-core 7th-generation Intel Core i5 processor, Turbo Boost up to 3.8GHz
  • 16GB 2400MHz DDR4
  • 512GB SSD
  • Radeon Pro 560 with 4GB video memory
  • Magic Trackpad 2
  • Magic Keyboard - US English

If portability is an after thought a desktop is almost always a better buy, good choice enjoy the imac.
 
Man, this discussion has been GREAT. You guys really went all out with the suggestions and opinions. A lot of great information in here for anyone who's on teh fence.

I thought about this long and hard recently and decided it probably makes more sense for me to buy this 2017 imac for 1900 (from apple) and a new ipad pro to replace my old one (which I use religiously but is definitely showing it's age for $500)
  • 3.4GHz quad-core 7th-generation Intel Core i5 processor, Turbo Boost up to 3.8GHz
  • 16GB 2400MHz DDR4
  • 512GB SSD
  • Radeon Pro 560 with 4GB video memory
  • Magic Trackpad 2
  • Magic Keyboard - US English
Don’t get 16 GB for a 27” iMac. Get 8 GB and then another 16 GB from a third party for a total of 24 GB for roughly the same money.

In addition to it not costing more, for most (but not all) users, 24 GB would last the life of the machine, whereas 16 GB could get a bit tight for some usage a few years down the line.
 
Don’t get 16 GB for a 27” iMac. Get 8 GB and then another 16 GB from a third party for a total of 24 GB for roughly the same money.

In addition to it not costing more, for most (but not all) users, 24 GB would last the life of the machine, whereas 16 GB could get a bit tight for some usage a few years down the line.

I'm looking at the 21.5" screen. 27 is just too big for my needs...was never a fan of sitting in front of that large of a screen and it's massive overkill for my needs. I love the size of my 21.5 now...unfortunately those are much more difficult to swap out ram on.
 
Ah ok. It’s unfortunate that the 21.5” is not upgradable.

I on the other hand use dual 27” iMac screens. ;)

Well, it "IS" but the last thing I plan to do is remove the screen on a brand new imac just to save a couple hundred.

27" is beautiful but just massive...21.5 is the perfect size for home use but I could imagine that the extra real estate afforded the 27" is invaluable for those who work in graphic design and stuff.
 
Well, it "IS" but the last thing I plan to do is remove the screen on a brand new imac just to save a couple hundred.

27" is beautiful but just massive...21.5 is the perfect size for home use but I could imagine that the extra real estate afforded the 27" is invaluable for those who work in graphic design and stuff.
One benefit of the 27" is you can run two browser screens side by side. You can't really with the 21.5".

The 21.5" is better ergonomically for some people though, since it's not as tall. The chin on the 27" can be a bit of an issue in terms of height.
 
2015 refurbished is the way to go. I don't think it is even close. Just a better laptop overall.
 
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The thing I like about the 2017 Macbook Pros, is that they're lighter. But the reason why is less slots, and a mid 70 capacity battery compared to 99.5-watt one. That's where the weight went. The 2017 is cheaper to build. I get the feeling though that the reason Apple don't put a 4 processing CPU in a 13", is beause they want you to pay a lot more. Same too goes for no separate GPUs in a 13". Can't help but think a bigger SSD is going to be much more useful to me, than a smaller one on a 2017. And I reckon the touchpad won't get in my hands' way with a 2015 setup. Plus I like its keyboard, and its a tough keyboard too.

I reckon the 2015 is a better machine, at the end of the day. If they put today's CPUs in it, and a thunderbolt three port in it as well, it would be a better computer than the 2017 model, although heavier. Leave the trackpad as it was. Have an option of a touch screen too. My wife loves her iPad, but couldn't handle a notebook at all. She loves the HP because its got a touch screen. Make that an option on the 2015 Macbook pro with today's CPU and a thunderbolt 3 port. A notebook with the ports you need is a user friendly device. Why pay more for less slots?

2017 is lighter but also cheaper. It's a de-contented 2015 in many ways. In 2017 MBPs Apple cheapened it by removing features but at the same time raised prices.

Kaby Lake CPU is 15-20% power efficient so Apple could have reduce weight in a 2015 MBP platform by going with a smaller and lighter battery and get a similar spec as 2017 but with more useful ports.
 
She loves the HP because its got a touch screen.

Apple insists this is a "bad experience with poor ergonomics" and that "nobody wants it"...

Yet I constantly catch my own family members trying to instinctively touch and interact with both iMac and laptop screens and have even caught myself almost doing it a couple times.

For *all* interactions it's not the best, no question...but sometimes it's awfully nice to touch something and interact with it - and in some contexts is the most intuitive way to do something.

I think they just don't want to put the effort into macOS itself to make it more touch capable/friendly personally.
 
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2015 refurbished is the way to go. I don't think it is even close. Just a better laptop overall.

I tested few 2015 and 2017 13" MBP's. 2017 was lighter and smaller but 2015 was just more useful and convenient while being nominally slower. 2015 MBPs are close to perfection in terms of design so it will be very difficult for Apple to improve it without cheapening it.

So I'm returning 2017 MBP's and keeping one of the 2015 MBP's with a better screen. One of the 2017 MBPs had the best screen but the one I'm keeping (for now) on 2015 is pretty good too.

There is a LCD lottery with MBP's so it's worth to compare and contrast the displays, especially with the LCDs of the display models at the Apple Stores if you care about what your eyes are looking at after paying $$$$ to Apple.
 
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Apple insists this is a "bad experience with poor ergonomics" and that "nobody wants it"...

Yet I constantly catch my own family members trying to instinctively touch and interact with both iMac and laptop screens and have even caught myself almost doing it a couple times.

I have the same issue. Every time I let an iPad or Windows laptop user use my MBP it comes back with all sort of fingerprints and finger drag marks on the screen.
 
I was thinking about this today and looking at prices for the different models and I think it might make more sense to buy a 21.5" iMac with 512 SSD and 16 RAM for 1900 and a 64 GB iPad pro then the MacBook.

I can get this for 1900.
  • 3.4GHz quad-core 7th-generation Intel Core i5 processor, Turbo Boost up to 3.8GHz
  • 16GB 2400MHz DDR4
  • 512GB SSD
  • Radeon Pro 560 with 4GB video memory
  • Magic Trackpad 2
  • Magic Keyboard - US English
iMacs definitely offer much better value than MacBooks as far as power for your money, so this would be a good option if you are willing to do all the heavy lifting at the desk and just take an iPad on the go
 
iMacs definitely offer much better value than MacBooks as far as power for your money, so this would be a good option if you are willing to do all the heavy lifting at the desk and just take an iPad on the go

Yeah, I don't do work on my imac...this is strictly for leisure. I use it heavily but just to do my typical media stuff and browse around. It's more than enough computer for me (as is the 2015, 2016 or 2017 macbooks).
 
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