2016 MBP keyboard is a deal breaker. What now?

[Queen6]

Worst keyboard Apple has ever implemented barring the Retina MacBook's which I have grown to loath; cheap tacky and unreliable are the immediate words that spring to mind. I have never seen so many negative posts or issue with an Apple computer related to the keyboard until the 2016 MBP was released. Similar to the 2011 dGPU debacle this is clearly not limited to just a few users suffering poor quality control.

If these short throw keyboards were an advancement in the typing experience, they would have been in use by professional typists for years, they are not and for good reason. Bottom line once again Apple has sacrificed function & usability over form and wowing the crowd to the cost of it's more serious users, small wonder professional usage of the Mac is shrinking. Personally around 20 years with the Mac, now in 2017 Apple does not produce a single computer I would remotely consider...

Q-6

 

[Huginnmuninn]

once again Apple has sacrificed function & usability over form and wowing the crowd to the cost of it's more serious users

LOL you never tried a Mac or Mac Plus keyboard from '84-'88. Worst keyboard by far.

 

[badlydrawnboy]

I'm the OP. Just got back from the weirdest Genius appointment I've ever had at an Apple store. Sat down and told the guy about the issues I'm having. He said, "Oh, yeah, I agree 100%. Worst keyboard Apple has ever designed. I personally would never buy one of these computers for that reason. And we've seen and endless stream of people with the same issue you have in here."

He said he'd run a keyboard diagnostic, but didn't expect to find anything technically wrong. (I'd just cleaned the keyboard a couple of days ago so it was working relatively well.) Here's the kicker: He basically told me he didn't have anything to offer. He said the keyboard is terrible on all of them, so replacing it doesn't make sense. He even told me that he'd replaced several of them for other customers, and in every single case they ended up having the same problem.

Could be that he just masterfully talked me out of a replacement, but I don't think that's the case. They guy was genuine. Now I'm not sure what to do. I did order a 2017 MBP from B&H that is still unopened in its box. I wanted to wait until I had my appointment, for exactly this reason: in case Apple said there's nothing they can do.

I have to say that the forums seem to support his case. I've read so many posts of people who've had their MBPs replaced, only to encounter the same problem within a few weeks. This does suggest it's a design flaw and not an issue with individual computers.

On the other hand, I have a friend with a 15" MBP that he bought a little bit later (mine was ordered day of release, so in the first batch), and he's never had the stuck keys issue. And if everyone was having this problem, wouldn't there be some kind of class action lawsuit or at least a page one bruhaha on MacRumors?

With B&H, once I open the box I can't return it. So I need to decide whether to take a risk on a new machine and sell the 2016 I have now, or just suck it up and live with what I've got. What do you think?

P.S. The store rep did share the routine he's found to be best for cleaning: compressed air, alcohol wipes, and a nylon probe.

 

[smallcoffee]

I'm the OP. Just got back from the weirdest Genius appointment I've ever had at an Apple store. Sat down and told the guy about the issues I'm having. He said, "Oh, yeah, I agree 100%. Worst keyboard Apple has ever designed. I personally would never buy one of these computers for that reason. And we've seen and endless stream of people with the same issue you have in here."

He said he'd run a keyboard diagnostic, but didn't expect to find anything technically wrong. (I'd just cleaned the keyboard a couple of days ago so it was working relatively well.) Here's the kicker: He basically told me he didn't have anything to offer. He said the keyboard is terrible on all of them, so replacing it doesn't make sense. He even told me that he'd replaced several of them for other customers, and in every single case they ended up having the same problem.

Could be that he just masterfully talked me out of a replacement, but I don't think that's the case. They guy was genuine. Now I'm not sure what to do. I did order a 2017 MBP from B&H that is still unopened in its box. I wanted to wait until I had my appointment, for exactly this reason: in case Apple said there's nothing they can do.

I have to say that the forums seem to support his case. I've read so many posts of people who've had their MBPs replaced, only to encounter the same problem within a few weeks. This does suggest it's a design flaw and not an issue with individual computers.

On the other hand, I have a friend with a 15" MBP that he bought a little bit later (mine was ordered day of release, so in the first batch), and he's never had the stuck keys issue. And if everyone was having this problem, wouldn't there be some kind of class action lawsuit or at least a page one bruhaha on MacRumors?

With B&H, once I open the box I can't return it. So I need to decide whether to take a risk on a new machine and sell the 2016 I have now, or just suck it up and live with what I've got. What do you think?

P.S. The store rep did share the routine he's found to be best for cleaning: compressed air, alcohol wipes, and a nylon probe.

On the other hand I went to the Apple Store and a rep told me that the Apple Watch couldn't connect to wifi without an iPhone nearby. YMMV.

 

[ixxx69]

I have to say that the forums seem to support his case. I've read so many posts of people who've had their MBPs replaced, only to encounter the same problem within a few weeks. This does suggest it's a design flaw and not an issue with individual computers.

On the other hand, I have a friend with a 15" MBP that he bought a little bit later (mine was ordered day of release, so in the first batch), and he's never had the stuck keys issue. And if everyone was having this problem, wouldn't there be some kind of class action lawsuit or at least a page one bruhaha on MacRumors?

The keyboard is fine. Some people love it, some people hate it, most people are like, it's a keyboard. I push the keys and letters and numbers appear on the screen. Keep in mind... by the end of the year, Apple will have sold in the neighborhood of 10 million 2016-2017 MBP's & 2015-2017 MB's with these keyboards.

If you go by these forums, Apple is on the verge of disaster with the worst product line-up in their history.

I have a 2015 MB, and one of the keys did indeed get "sticky" in the first few months of ownership - but it cleared up after a couple of weeks and has worked perfectly since. I'm certainly more weary of this keyboard construction, and I won't be surprised if early models are more likely to develop issues, just like pretty much any new technology... but here's the crux of all this - many of regular posters around here look at Apple products as a challenge of how many issues and flaws they can find with it, and whether it will still be working flawlessly 5+ years from now. They are the 3%. The other 97% just go about their business, never visiting forums, and they just get stuff done with them.

 

[jerryk]

I have a 2015 MB, and one of the keys did indeed get "sticky" in the first few months of ownership - but it cleared up after a couple of weeks and has worked perfectly since.

The thing about the 2015 and earlier retinas like you and I have is that we can easily remove the keys and clean under them put just pulling, or by mashing the heck out of them to free them. I have even remove sugar from soda that froze a group of keys on a 2014 retina. You cannot do this sort of "maintenance" in the new units. You will likely break the key mechanics trying to get them out. You can blow some air around the keys (see https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205662 , for the "Apple way" to do this), pound on them, but that is about it.

So if you have a problem the solution is usually it is take it into Apple. And when that happens they usually send it back so the customer is without their computer. So even a failure rate of is 1%, that is a lot of upset owners posting online about they keyboard issues.

 

[badlydrawnboy]

The keyboard is fine. Some people love it, some people hate it, most people are like, it's a keyboard. I push the keys and letters and numbers appear on the screen. Keep in mind... by the end of the year, Apple will have sold in the neighborhood of 10 million 2016-2017 MBP's & 2015-2017 MB's with these keyboards.

If you go by these forums, Apple is on the verge of disaster with the worst product line-up in their history.

I have a 2015 MB, and one of the keys did indeed get "sticky" in the first few months of ownership - but it cleared up after a couple of weeks and has worked perfectly since. I'm certainly more weary of this keyboard construction, and I won't be surprised if early models are more likely to develop issues, just like pretty much any new technology... but here's the crux of all this - many of regular posters around here look at Apple products as a challenge of how many issues and flaws they can find with it, and whether it will still be working flawlessly 5+ years from now. They are the 3%. The other 97% just go about their business, never visiting forums, and they just get stuff done with them.

Look, I'm not one of those people you're referring to. If anything I fall more in the category of Apple fanboy. I've used Apple computers and other devices (iPod, iPhone, iPad, AppleTv, etc. etc.) exclusively for decades. I get that some people like the new keyboard and some people don't. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about keys that get stuck so that it's very difficult to type that letter or number in normal typing. Yes, I can often resolve the problem by using compressed air, but that's a pain and not possible when I'm traveling.

If this were just a matter of me not liking the new keyboards compared to the old ones (which is also true), I wouldn't be wasting my time talking about it on the forums. This is clearly the direction Apple has chosen, and I can either live with it or buy a PC. No, this is about wanting to have a keyboard with keys that don't constantly get stuck.

But the fact that there aren't even more people complaining about it does seem to suggest that some units are better than others, so I think I will open up that B&H box and at least give the 2017 model a try. Worst case is I have a slightly upgraded machine with a still crappy keyboard, and I lose a few hundred bucks in the transaction. Probably worth the risk.

 

[ixxx69]

The thing about the 2015 and earlier retinas like you and I have is that we can easily remove the keys and clean under them put just pulling, or by mashing the heck out of them to free them. I have even remove sugar from soda that froze a group of keys on a 2014 retina. You cannot do this sort of "maintenance" in the new units. You will likely break the key mechanics trying to get them out. You can blow some air around the keys (see https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205662 , for the "Apple way" to do this), pound on them, but that is about it.

So if you have a problem the solution is usually it is take it into Apple. And when that happens they usually send it back so the customer is without their computer. So even a failure rate of is 1%, that is a lot of upset owners posting online about they keyboard issues.

Yeah, that is how forums work - usually hear from the 1%. I didn't say it doesn't suck when something breaks, but it's always going to be something. If something goes wrong with the MB/CPU/RAM/SSD/Ports/Screen, I have to bring it back to Apple.

If someone can't live with 1% failure rate on hardware, they should just stay away from tech.

But the fact that there aren't even more people complaining about it does seem to suggest that some units are better than others, so I think I will open up that B&H box and at least give the 2017 model a try. Worst case is I have a slightly upgraded machine with a still crappy keyboard, and I lose a few hundred bucks in the transaction. Probably worth the risk.

Right, that's the point - if you're continually having keyboard issues, you got a defective unit and need to get the keyboard fully replaced or demand a new unit. But as far as we know (and no one on this forum can factually state otherwise), the overall defective rate of 2016/2017 MBP's is no better or worse than previous models.

Good luck!

 

[PBz]

Autocorrect has a whole lotta people clueless keys aren’t working.

 

[Queen6]

Yeah, that is how forums work - usually hear from the 1%. I didn't say it doesn't suck when something breaks, but it's always going to be something. If something goes wrong with the MB/CPU/RAM/SSD/Ports/Screen, I have to bring it back to Apple.

If someone can't live with 1% failure rate on hardware, they should just stay away from tech.


Right, that's the point - if you're continually having keyboard issues, you got a defective unit and need to get the keyboard fully replaced or demand a new unit. But as far as we know (and no one on this forum can factually state otherwise), the overall defective rate of 2016/2017 MBP's is no better or worse than previous models.

Good luck!

Keyboard is garbage plain and simple, never seen so many negative posts regarding a Mac's Keyboard, even Apple's own staff are admitting (off the record) it's near useless and a lottery if you get one that doesn't present any issue. Time will tell, equally this is likely to be another debacle similar to the 2011 dGPU failures. Once again Apple will vehemently deny any issue exists until it's compelled to by a court of law, or in an untenable position where loss of court action is certain.

For the customers best we can hope for is just another extended warranty program replacing the same badly designed junk with exactly the same components that are equally likely to fail. $3K notebook, $2 keyboard, enough said...

Q-6

 

[Frankfurt]

These rants of the same people over and over and over again are so tiring.

 

[ixxx69]

Keyboard is garbage plain and simple, never seen so many negative posts regarding a Mac's Keyboard, even Apple's own staff are admitting (off the record) it's near useless and a lottery if you get one that doesn't present any issue. Time will tell, equally this is likely to be another debacle similar to the 2011 dGPU failures. Once again Apple will vehemently deny any issue exists until it's compelled to by a court of law, or in an untenable position where loss of court action is certain.

For the customers best we can hope for is just another extended warranty program replacing the same badly designed junk with exactly the same components that are equally likely to fail. $3K notebook, $2 keyboard, enough said...

Q-6

It's just really hard to ignore that you've been dumping on Apple for many months now and have repeatedly indicated that you've moved to Windows and find that environment much better for you. And for months you've been trying to steer anyone and everyone to buy anything as long as it's not Apple. So okay, we get it, you don't like Apple anymore.

If the keyboard turns out to really be an unusually wide-spread issue, it's a bummer, and they're going to have to do something about it. If this many 2017 MBP's that are only a few months old are failing as you guys suggest, then there's no way Apple can just ignore it, if for no other reason than it would get a ton of publicity and affect their brand which they care so deeply about.

But as I said before, nobody here has any actual data, it's all hear-say, and people who are upset because they're MBP's keyboards are having issues. And again, that sucks. But that doesn't mean that it's a defective design or that people shouldn't buy the product... at least there's no data to actually support that advice.

We see this constantly... the battery was a disaster, the ports are a disaster, GPUs are throttling and are prone to failure, the CPUs are throttling, screens are delaminating, keyboards are failing left and right... and it just repeats ad nauseam. And yes there's always the possibility this will turn out to be a wide-spread issue, but that goes for most of the components on any given computer, especially when it's a major redesign. No one says you have to buy the "latest and greatest" - that's one of the reasons Apple has been providing previous models.

 

[Mr. Dee]

These rants of the same people over and over and over again are so tiring.

You specifically chose to read and respond to the thread.

 

[Frankfurt]

You specifically chose to read and respond to the thread.

Apparently, I am a masochist.

 

[Queen6]

It's just really hard to ignore that you've been dumping on Apple for many months now and have repeatedly indicated that you've moved to Windows and find that environment much better for you. And for months you've been trying to steer anyone and everyone to buy anything as long as it's not Apple. So okay, we get it, you don't like Apple anymore.

If the keyboard turns out to really be an unusually wide-spread issue, it's a bummer, and they're going to have to do something about it. If this many 2017 MBP's that are only a few months old are failing as you guys suggest, then there's no way Apple can just ignore it, if for no other reason than it would get a ton of publicity and affect their brand which they care so deeply about.

But as I said before, nobody here has any actual data, it's all hear-say, and people who are upset because they're MBP's keyboards are having issues. And again, that sucks. But that doesn't mean that it's a defective design or that people shouldn't buy the product... at least there's no data to actually support that advice.

We see this constantly... the battery was a disaster, the ports are a disaster, GPUs are throttling and are prone to failure, the CPUs are throttling, screens are delaminating, keyboards are failing left and right... and it just repeats ad nauseam. And yes there's always the possibility this will turn out to be a wide-spread issue, but that goes for most of the components on any given computer, especially when it's a major redesign. No one says you have to buy the "latest and greatest" - that's one of the reasons Apple has been providing previous models.

Apple has in the past ignored blatantly obvious issues until no other recourse i.e compelled by impending court action. Similar to many others we expect more of Apple, not abandonment for the "Kool Kid's & Starbucks Crowd" nip over to the Mac Pro forum and you'll see exactly just how happy many professional users of OS X & Apple's hardware are with the current situation. Mac Mini best not to even raise that one.

Problem is far too many are willing to simply accept what Apple currently churns out, without question. Some of us hold Apple to higher standards, more concerning is fewer are caring as Apple's professional user base shrinks. Was a time I would have recommended the Mac without any reservation, to day very far from that paradigm.

Thing is; if no one counters we'll all be stuck with beautiful thin & light notebooks that are little more than portals for the likes of Facebook. Then again Apple is selling, so they clearly understand their target audience. As stated I too soon will be solely a recreational user of the Mac, arguably Apple's loss...

Some respects I agree "beating dead horse's" again Apple's loss...

Q-6

 

[badlydrawnboy]

Selfishly, at this point I'm only interested in figuring out whether my keyboard is abnormal and could be improved by getting a new MBP, or whether I'm just more sensitive to the changes Apple made than most other users.

It's a hassle and time-consuming to sell a computer on Craigslist, and I'd rather not go through that if I'm just going to end up with the same result. Maybe I'll post another thread with a poll to see how many people resolved their keyboard issues by repair or replacement.

 

[Naimfan]

Back to the Boulder Apple store to have the keyboard looked at again. The "b" and "t" keys are intermittently doubling; previously, the "b" key was removed and cleaned. 2016/1TB/460 model.

 

[badlydrawnboy]

Back to the Boulder Apple store to have the keyboard looked at again. The "b" and "t" keys are intermittently doubling; previously, the "b" key was removed and cleaned. 2016/1TB/460 model.

Just curious, for the other folks having problems, does using compressed air typically fix them? In my case it does, but I have to do it often and when I'm traveling it's not always possible. Sounds like other people may have issues with specific keys that don't resolve even with compressed air. If that's the case, might be less likely that replacing my computer will fix anything.

 

[ixxx69]

Apple has in the past ignored blatantly obvious issues until no other recourse i.e compelled by impending court action. Similar to many others we expect more of Apple, not abandonment for the "Kool Kid's & Starbucks Crowd" nip over to the Mac Pro forum and you'll see exactly just how happy many professional users of OS X & Apple's hardware are with the current situation. Mac Mini best not to even raise that one.

Problem is far too many are willing to simply accept what Apple currently churns out, without question. Some of us hold Apple to higher standards, more concerning is fewer are caring as Apple's professional user base shrinks. Was a time I would have recommended the Mac without any reservation, to day very far from that paradigm.

Thing is; if no one counters we'll all be stuck with beautiful thin & light notebooks that are little more than portals for the likes of Facebook. Then again Apple is selling, so they clearly understand their target audience. As stated I too soon will be solely a recreational user of the Mac, arguably Apple's loss...

Some respects I agree "beating dead horse's" again Apple's loss...

Q-6

Ahh, the old "I'm performing a public service" and the tired "if we don't speak up, Apple will keep making crappy products" with your daily Apple bashing. If you think Apple gives a !@#$ about what people say on these forums, that's delusional.

Look, I get just as frustrated with Apple as the next person, and I've unloaded at times on these forums about my perceived failings of Apple. But I pick my spots when I want to vent a bit... I don't just make the same rants and criticisms over and over again. It's easy to see how newer members get the impression that there's tons and tons of users unhappy with Apple, when it's really a few dozen of the same users posting day after day, week after week, month after month their ultimate displeasure.

(and since you brought up the Mac Pro forum - the majority you speak of are not "pros"... they're a few dozen hardware geeks who spend all their time tricking out the classic Mac Pro, debating the minutia of specs and benchmarks, while trashing Apple daily... ironically enough, probably the most persistent (to be kind) voice in that subforum is someone who doesn't use a Mac... but he's been bashing Apple for several years now on a daily basis).

Apple is what they are and you either take it or leave it. There's literally only one way to make a "difference", and that's vote with your wallet. And you've put your money where your mouth is, so good for you. What isn't cool is to continually rip on these products and tell people not to buy them, just because they don't fit your needs.

As of right now, there is no widespread "keyboard issue". You're just spreading FUD to say otherwise. I think the forum is a great place for people to gather and point out issues they're having and see if there's something to the anecdotal reports. Maybe there is - I'm not saying there is not. However, it's way too early to be advising people that there's even a "potential" keyboard issue (beyond the general advice to be a little cautious of any new product/redesign).

Just curious, for the other folks having problems, does using compressed air typically fix them? In my case it does, but I have to do it often and when I'm traveling it's not always possible. Sounds like other people may have issues with specific keys that don't resolve even with compressed air. If that's the case, might be less likely that replacing my computer will fix anything.

If you can see no reason why they might be continually getting jammed, you should try to get a replacement.

If you're eating or doing something that would create a lot of loose particles to cause the jams, then your best bet is to avoid that (one of my keys got sticky when a grain of food got under one of the keys... it got mashed to dust and then worked normally, and I've been more careful since). If you can't avoid it, then you could try a keyboard cover of some type, or if that won't work for you, unfortunately it just might not be the right laptop for you at this time.

 

[doitdada]

Havent had a sticky key all month. In fact never had that issue on the 2016. I don't drink soda while typing either.

 

[badlydrawnboy]

If you can see no reason why they might be continually getting jammed, you should try to get a replacement.

If you're eating or doing something that would create a lot of loose particles to cause the jams, then your best bet is to avoid that (one of my keys got sticky when a grain of food got under one of the keys... it got mashed to dust and then worked normally, and I've been more careful since). If you can't avoid it, then you could try a keyboard cover of some type, or if that won't work for you, unfortunately it just might not be the right laptop for you at this time.

I never eat near my computer. I've been using my MBP the same way I've used all of my previous MBPs and MBAs, and I never had an issue with those. But the Apple Store guy said that the biggest design problem with this new keyboard is that it's so much easier for normal debris that you encounter in a house or office (like dust, "finger gunk"—for lack of a better term—etc.).

 

[Naimfan]

Just curious, for the other folks having problems, does using compressed air typically fix them? In my case it does, but I have to do it often and when I'm traveling it's not always possible. Sounds like other people may have issues with specific keys that don't resolve even with compressed air. If that's the case, might be less likely that replacing my computer will fix anything.

Well, removing and cleaning under the keys worked for about 30 minutes - the b and t keys are again randomly doing multiple entries.

Per the service person at the store, the next step is to replace the keyboard. They've ordered it; I set up an appointment to have it done as I can't be without the laptop for 5 days. After that, they typically replace the machine, but I'd just like to see the darn thing work properly.

I find it absurd that someone have to carry a can of compressed air to ensure a functional keyboard - that simply says it's a design flaw.

 

[Playfoot]

Exactly. And what do those of us do who use our computers professionally? Even if Apple agrees to replace the keyboard, that will take several days. I need my MBP for work and can't work without it.

I've considered buying a 2017 MBP, sending my 2016 in for repair, and then returning the 2017 when I get the 2016 back. That's not something I would typically do for ethical reasons, but this problem is on Apple, not me. Another option is to just sell the 2016 when it's fixed and keep the 2017. But in that scenario I'll end up spending another several hundred dollars without any guarantee the problem will be fixed, given that some people are still having issues with the 2017 keyboards.

Well, based on our experience, if you need to send in for repair, and we are a business client, you had best allow for 10 days to 2 weeks. As we are so undecided about this iteration of MBP, we have yet to buy a few spares for repair periods.

ALSO, we are worried given the lack of ability to replace, repair and upgrade. Each keyboard replacement by Apple is in the USD1,000 range. NOTE, we do not pay that, but that is what the cost is if out of warranty....A significant concern for the future when the top case, with keyboard also has the battery....

 

[groove-agent]

How about in 3 years when your AppleCare runs out? If they break shortly out of the box, then how about years down the road? If I'm going to spend over $4000 for a laptop, it needs to last 3-5 years.

My 2017 is perfect.

My mate's 2017 is perfect.

Girl next to me in one of my classes, her keyboard for her 2017 is perfect.

Go on here, two guy's have bad 2017 keyboards...And that's it I've seen.

[doublepost=1505715446][/doublepost]People ranting about people ranting is tiring. They have a right to express dissatisfaction with their experience from Apple. Read the thread title, and don't read further if you think it's a complaint/ rant.

These rants of the same people over and over and over again are so tiring.

[doublepost=1505716047][/doublepost]I agree with you and am in the same boat. I need to replace a 2012 cMBP but I can't justify replacing it with something from the current lineup. While I feel I could get used to typing on the new keyboard, I can't rely on it given what I've heard from Apple store geniuses and users. It IS a deal breaker, especially for the amount of money they're charging (plus the price Apple care).

Apple's ridiculous obsession with thinness is their downfall. It causes compromises in features (and reliability) and yet they charge ridiculous prices for it. That being said, Apple Watch looks thick and ugly like an 80s Casio calculator watch and they don't thin that. I don't get Apple anymore. They're out to lunch it seems.

I'm really struggling with the decision to stay with Apple. I'm going to hold out for now in hopes they smarten up.

I bought the 2016 TB MBP right when it came out. Yeah, the TB is useless but I do like TouchID. But the keyboard is an absolute piece of junk. I've been using Macs for 30+ years (we had an Apple IIe and IIc growing up), and this is literally the first time I've even remotely considered switching to PC.

Seriously, were people really asking for a thinner, lighter MBP? Does Apple do market research or do they just make these decisions on their own? I wish I hadn't sold my 2013 MBA. I would easily trade the fancy retina screen on the MBP for a usable keyboard, and the MBA was plenty fast for me.

I'm about as much as an Apple fanboy as one can be (I've never owned a single piece of PC hardware or a non-Apple smartphone), I have an AppleTV and just about everything else they make. But I just don't know what to do for a laptop now. So frustrating.