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Trebuin

macrumors 65816
Jun 3, 2008
1,494
272
Central Cali
I am very concerned even if it is within its limits. My 2014's GPU burned my iMac's screen and caused Apple to replace the entire unit because that GPU ran hot in general and also the heatsink was not properly attached or something. The GPU reaching 100C caused physical damage to the machine and I would guess the CPU reaching 100C would also cause damage.



I will give disabling turbo a shot, thank you. Do you have a 2017 i7 btw?



hey do you mind opening terminal and running the "yes" command and posting your temps where they peak before the fans kick in? Mine are:

https://s1-cdn.photoland.io/jO80s.png

and thank you.
[doublepost=1514305392][/doublepost]

The problem is the CPU jumps from 60C to 100C in like 5 seconds so the fans are like "WHATS GOING ON?". Do you know of a tool where I can just say "as soon as the CPU crosses 68C BLAST THE FANS ON MAX"

It's been a while, but this one is what I programmed in the past: https://www.crystalidea.com/macs-fan-control
TP Pro does it as well (but it is pay ware). It should idle lower than 60C. If it idles at 60, there may actually be something wrong with your computer...either software running or cooling issue.
 

thefriendshipmachine

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 14, 2017
300
210
It's been a while, but this one is what I programmed in the past: https://www.crystalidea.com/macs-fan-control
TP Pro does it as well (but it is pay ware). It should idle lower than 60C. If it idles at 60, there may actually be something wrong with your computer...either software running or cooling issue.
Thanks I will give these a shot. My iMac CPU idles at about 55C. Is that normal?
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,478
43,405
hey do you mind opening terminal and running the "yes" command and posting your temps where they peak before the fans kick in? Mine are:

https://s1-cdn.photoland.io/jO80s.png

and thank you.

60c was when the fans started ramping up (from 1200 to 1500). I killed it by then. It took about 7 minutes to go from the 40 temps to 60. I was getting impatient so I did this in the terminal: cat /dev/random > /dev/null
 

thefriendshipmachine

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 14, 2017
300
210
60c was when the fans started ramping up (from 1200 to 1500). I killed it by then. It took about 7 minutes to go from the 40 temps to 60. I was getting impatient so I did this in the terminal: cat /dev/random > /dev/null

And you have a 2017 imac with the i7? Huh.... that's weird because when I run "yes" it just shoots up to 90C after about 8 seconds and the fans STAY at 1200 RPM. Do you have any idea why we're both experiencing such different temperatures and fan rules?
[doublepost=1514307694][/doublepost]
using the app "TG Pro" you can control the behavior of the fan manually -> https://www.tunabellysoftware.com/tgpro/
It turns out that I got TG Pro for free because I bought TG from the app store a few years ago! I turned on the auto boost feature and now the fans go to max when the CPU crosses 80C. That's abit better since without TGPro they stayed at 1200 RPM at 90C... now when I run the "yes" command with TGPro + auto boost + turbo off my temps bounce from 80C to 90C.... so its sort of fixed?
 

thefriendshipmachine

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 14, 2017
300
210
according to his signature, he owns a 2015 model.

apparently I dont know how to read :(

I also have a 2017 MacBook Pro with the i7 and it idles at 45C. When I run the "yes" command on that guy it gets into the 90C range after about 1 minute but in its case the machine automatically ramps the fans up from 2000 RPM to 3000 RPM. Not the case with the iMac. Maybe Apple has more aggressive fan rules for MacBooks because there's less space for heat to disperse over?
 

propower

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2010
731
126
When I had mine - idle was 40 degC or so.
If idle is 60 there is something going on (background app or a problem)
External monitors put loads on the GPU that put my idle temp more like 40 to 50 degC.
Fans never go above idle until Mac CPU hits 90+ degC.
If you have 90degC rock steady on all cores (use istat) and 1200 RPM that is the borderline where fans ramp up or could stay idle.

There is a fairly epic thread where many writing here have written before. Search 2017 imac is louder, noisier, runs hot etc...
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/the-new-imac-is-a-lot-noisier.2051501/

Lots more are easy to find
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4177340
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
13,742
11,447
FWIW, the i7-4790K from 2014 has a slightly lower TDP at 88W as compared to the 91W of the i7-7700K from 2017.

Also important to note that at least on the PC side, the 7700K is known to jump to 100C more quickly than the 4790K. It’s so fast to hit 100C that the PC geek crowd had conniptions over it.

When I had mine - idle was 40 degC or so.
If idle is 60 there is something going on (background app or a problem)
External monitors put loads on the GPU that put my idle temp more like 40 to 50 degC.
Fans never go above idle until Mac CPU hits 90+ degC.
If you have 90degC rock steady on all cores (use istat) and 1200 RPM that is the borderline where fans ramp up or could stay idle.

There is a fairly epic thread where many writing here have written before. Search 2017 imac is louder, noisier, runs hot etc...
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/the-new-imac-is-a-lot-noisier.2051501/

Lots more are easy to find
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4177340
There are different temperatures measured as you know. He has to make sure he’s reading the right one. Not an average of the various CPU measurements nor something like CPU proximity.

One piece of software that can standardize the testing and monitoring is Intel’s own Intel Power Gadget, which was just updated a few days ago for macOS.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-testing-and-temp-monitoring-utility.2097369/
 
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joema2

macrumors 68000
Sep 3, 2013
1,645
864
....Do you mind running the terminal command "yes" and reporting back with your CPU temps and fan speed after 20 seconds or so? I'm trying to figure out if I'm experiencing normal behaviour or if I need to send back this Mac.

Running 4 instances of Yes, after 20 sec the CPU core temps on my 2017 i7 iMac was about 84C and fan speed was 1200 rpm. After 1 minute it was 90C and fan was still at 1200 rpm. After 2 minutes it was 94C and 2400 rpm. All measurements by iStat Menus.
 

Persian-apple

macrumors regular
Aug 16, 2012
213
20
Iran
Fire up handbrake and report to us how long it takes for the fans to go to max.

Let's wait and see how the iMac pros cool.... are you assuming they will run quietly? Under full load ?
dont know what handbrake is but playing the latest call of duty wwii on bootcamp which runs on my 3tb hdd part of the fusion drive (yeah i went with fusion) with everything nearly maxed (like 90 percent of setting on max) 1440p 60fps+(the cod caps the frame rate to 60 and if the machine cant handle 60 automatically locks on 30fps which is wierd (the last 2-3cods acted this way for me so i decided to choose a setting that could run at least with 60 or more fps)
considering how outdated these bootcamp amd drivers are and that i have multiple drives attached my userinterface (focusrite2i2) and theyre all drwaing power form the machine
even in this situation it runs this with mire than 60 fps without a hiccup i do have some mouse lag at tumes but today i played 30 minutes with no hiccups its mainly software cause with the apple track pad i get almost no hiccups and those hiccups happen very rarely although i have multiple mice connected to the imac at the same time all of this makes the fans run at full speed but it doesnt seem to get too hot just “warm” nothing too crazy and the fan noise is definitly audible but that doesnt bother me even if i turn down the volume to 20-30percent it doesnt bother me and while running heavy logic projects i cant hear any fan noise (not too heavy but yeah there are a few plug ins on each track and im using maschine studio sometimes kontakt alchemy etc...) and even while playing and recording my midi controller into komplete kontrol plug in i cant hear anything so its safe to say this machine works great and the fusion drive is slow at times but under os x its not much different that ssd in real life performance
 
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Persian-apple

macrumors regular
Aug 16, 2012
213
20
Iran
it's an application used for transcoding video files -> https://handbrake.fr
I dont dont do video work man But Im sure this thing handles Heat Just fine Ran geekbench ungine valley It runs Just fine no thrtottling
Even if the temps are at 100C As long as it doesnt throttle Its fine
[doublepost=1514534734][/doublepost]
it's an application used for transcoding video files -> https://handbrake.fr
But im Gonna do It If It makes Any difference to You
 

robertrl

macrumors newbie
Sep 29, 2016
9
3
I just got a 2017, i7 4.2ghz, 16ram and 2TB SSD. I had a 2015 i7 and I am very unfortunately not happy. There is a lo of fan noise with the new unit that I rarely experienced with my old 2015 model or for that matter most others. My son recommended I run Mac fan control. On Based on ambient this cut the noise down by about 80%. It went from where I was going to return the unit and go back to my 2015 model to "I'll probably keep this one." Disappointing that Apple allows this issue. There are many who would say you shouldn't touch fan controls, but it just doesn't seem right for the fan to turn on when I have 1 program running and 2 open but not doing much and the activity monitor shows about 20% CPU usage. Thank you Daniel for your recommendation!
 

yurc

macrumors 6502a
Aug 12, 2016
833
1,011
inside your DSDT
Problem is K chips are too hot.

I don't know why Apple decide to used K chips in such slim iMacs (starting from 5K 2014 iMacs with i7-4790K Haswell chips). Trends continue into Skylake and Kaby Lake generation.

K chips are considered hot, throttling is unbearable in such slim chassis. In earlier version of iMac, i7 model was using normal non-K i7 chips, which is lower and better temperature.

I hope Apple revised internal design with similar layout and cooling like iMac Pro if want use K chips in future high end standard iMac. Otherwise it just throttling machine.
 
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joema2

macrumors 68000
Sep 3, 2013
1,645
864
Problem is K chips are too hot...K chips are considered hot, throttling is unbearable in such slim chassis....I hope Apple revised internal design with similar layout and cooling like iMac Pro if want use K chips in future high end standard iMac. Otherwise it just throttling machine.

Max Yuryev did stress testing of 2015 and 2017 i7 iMacs side-by-side, and didn't observe much throttling on the 2017 model. The 2015 and 2014 models were more subject to this:

So this indicates that thermal throttling is not unbearable in "such a slim chassis", but varies based on the chip used and model year. It may also vary based on the specific unit, which could indicate a consistency issue with how thermal paste or heat sink is assembled during manufacturing.

There have probably been dozens of posts on this forum saying thermal throttling and/or loud fans were inevitable or unavoidable because Apple used such a slim chassis. Their typical recommended solution was a thicker all-in-one machine or small tower with larger, slower fans.

However (as you posted) the iMac Pro shows that's not the case. It is possible to have a slim, quiet chassis, despite having a powerful CPU and GPU.
 

yurc

macrumors 6502a
Aug 12, 2016
833
1,011
inside your DSDT
However (as you posted) the iMac Pro shows that's not the case. It is possible to have a slim, quiet chassis, despite having a powerful CPU and GPU.

Well....why I'm said they used similar internal layout as iMac Pro if standard iMac want keep cooler. iMac Pro and normal iMac are both slim, but have very different layout for cooling airflow.

Even the powerful iMac Pro used slightly clocked down Vega chips and their Xeon is special designed SKU chips for avoid overheating. This is slim chassis consequences. With normal Xeon W chips and full fat Vega GPU there's will be issue.

Personally, I'm not too fond of newer iMac with tapered design. Desktop should not need any thinness, they not portable like MacBook counterparts. But yeah, iMac Pro is exception for me. They reasonably priced with great components inside even for base model.
 

stylinexpat

macrumors 68020
Mar 6, 2009
2,107
4,542
Unfortunately, this was the normal behaviour with my 2017 iMac i7-7700K. It was extremely easy to push it to 100C. This meant that the fan would come on loud after about half a minute of any CPU intensive activity, which bothered me more than the actual temperature.

So I returned the i7-7700K and got an i5-7600. Much happier.

My 2010 i7-870 definitely doesn’t behave like the 2017 i7-7700K. I cannot compare the 2014 since I never owned one.


There are some reports here that suggest your entry level i5-7500 will stay cool enough basically forever, so it may never need the fan at a loud rpm, regardless of the workload intensity.

My i5-7600 will become audible after 10 minutes of Handbrake but without the fan at max.

My i7-7700K would hit max fan in ~30 seconds.
I could never figure out why we could watch a YouTube video on an iPhone or iPad with no huge internal fan with no major issues only to watch a large MacBook Pro or iMac which has more room inside of it with more powerful processors heat up and have fans go to max spin.. You would have figured that watching a video or doing a video call these days would not lead to putting the fans in max spin mode on a big iMac of MacBook Pro.
[doublepost=1519598471][/doublepost]
apparently I dont know how to read :(

I also have a 2017 MacBook Pro with the i7 and it idles at 45C. When I run the "yes" command on that guy it gets into the 90C range after about 1 minute but in its case the machine automatically ramps the fans up from 2000 RPM to 3000 RPM. Not the case with the iMac. Maybe Apple has more aggressive fan rules for MacBooks because there's less space for heat to disperse over?
One would have thought that an iMacwould run cooler due to more internal space
 

wardie

macrumors 6502a
Aug 18, 2008
551
179
Call me a bit dim here if you will, and I’m not a chip designer, but if they are working within the temp range they have been designed to, and throttle themselves accordingly, and worst case I have AppleCare, what’s the worry here apart from a bit of fan noise? I really don’t understand why someone would get rid of the machine unless they need a workstation that will run CPU intense stuff 24x7 in which case you need a workstation class Xeon process i.e. iMacPro... Is there a lot of factual evidence and studies to say these CPUs burn out? Just asking...
 

CE3

macrumors 68000
Nov 26, 2014
1,808
3,146
I guess I’m lucky because my 2017 i7 iMac is quiet. I run CPU intensive programs and the fans speed up when they need to, but 90-95% of the time they’re at the lowest speed.
 
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Smoothie

macrumors 6502a
Jun 23, 2007
781
544
California
Call me a bit dim here if you will, and I’m not a chip designer, but if they are working within the temp range they have been designed to, and throttle themselves accordingly, and worst case I have AppleCare, what’s the worry here apart from a bit of fan noise? I really don’t understand why someone would get rid of the machine unless they need a workstation that will run CPU intense stuff 24x7 in which case you need a workstation class Xeon process i.e. iMacPro... Is there a lot of factual evidence and studies to say these CPUs burn out? Just asking...

Generally speaking, heat is the enemy of electronics. Intel and other semiconductor manufacturers specify the maximum safe operating temperature of a device. For CPUs, when that temp is reached, the chip will automatically throttle back its clock speed to reduce the temp. If it didn't, the chip would be irreparably damaged. (I think the thermal design may factor in the length of time the chip is operating at the maximum temp before throttling back.)

For a CPU, the maximum operating temp is designated as the T-junction max temp, which is measured at the die -- not the case that the silicon chip (the die) is packaged in. For the 7700K, that temp is 100 deg. C. The CPU clock speed varies according to workload, and so does the temp. Constantly operating the chip at its maximum temp over long periods of time might cause unwanted effects at the microscopic level (e.g., electromigration as an example) which could decrease the life of the chip. Modern chip design tries to take these effects into account to increase reliability. And it's possible that any failure might not occur during the useful life of the chip anyway, i.e., the computer gets replaced for something newer before the chip might fail.

No two chips are identical even though they're the same model and manufactured the same way. (If you look at the microscopic features of a semiconductor under an electron microscope, you'll see what I mean.) So one might fail where another might not, given the same conditions.

But the CPU isn't the only component that gets hot. The heat generated by the CPU causes other components in the computer case to operate at higher temps. And those components could have their life shortened by higher heat. Also, the very thin metal conductors on the printed circuit board will expand and contract with heat cycling that could cause mechanical failure. The iMac motherboard is in a fairly confined space with only one fan to exhaust the heat. (The iMac Pro has a redesigned cooling system with two fans.)

Apple has lots of smart engineers. They've taken all of this into account in designing the iMac that incorporates the 7700K chip, (which runs fairly hot even in PCs that have bigger cases with more fans, better air flow and/or liquid cooling). In my opinion, the odds are quite good that the chip and motherboard components won't fail due to heat during the useful life of the iMac. But a very small percentage might experience heat-related failures where a cooler running chip, like the 7600K, might not.

When I bought my 2017 iMac, I had a hard time deciding between those two chips. Ultimately, I decided on the 7600K because I wanted a quieter computer, and my usage didn't really require hyperthreading and the slightly higher clock speed of the 7700K. I rarely ever hear the fan in my iMac.
 

dgman

macrumors newbie
Oct 31, 2011
9
14
Tampa, FL
nonsense! your statement would imply that every generation of i7s has the same thermal characteristics, which is clearly not the case.
[doublepost=1526236702][/doublepost]I just bought the 2017 i7 4.2Ghz iMac model 3 days ago and mine runs at 95 to 100 degrees celsius all the time. I use Final Cut, Compressor, HandBrake and this happens if I do a little light gaming. Everything I do on my iMac runs hot with fans spinning. I know 2 other folks with the i7 for 2017 and they told me that theirs pretty much do the same. So this is not nonsense.
 

robertrl

macrumors newbie
Sep 29, 2016
9
3
My CPU is hitting 100C all the time (according to temperature guage). Is that normal/expected? It's a brand new 2017 iMac with i7. All I'm doing right now is installing xcode from the app store and installd is using a lot of the CPU and the machine is constantly hitting 100C CPU temps...

I thought the 2017 iMac would run *cooler* than my 2014 iMac but my 2014 i7 never hit 100C. So this seems like a problem to me?

edit: a screenshot of the "yes" command running in terminal, taken after 8 seconds https://s1-cdn.photoland.io/jO80s.png
[doublepost=1526238880][/doublepost]Hi.. I too am disappointed. The fan is constantly turning on. Right now the temperatures for CPU 1, 2, 3, 4 ARE: 123.8, 122, 125,6 AND 125.6 deg. F.
This is in my imac 2017 i7 with 2TB of SSD.
Apple quality has not been the same. They make more money in phones and I believe have let the computers go to the wayside. I have had Apples since the Apple II+ and each was better each year until this last version in 2017.

I wish someone of importance would read these gripes and take action, but they are too busy hiding money in distant countries so as to not be taxed.
 
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