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Yes since the rMB and now the MBP AC seems mandatory IMO I got my eldest to add it to his rMB that I gifted

My sisters Surface Laptop came with 2 years warranty too

My sons Dell came with 1 year onsite support which is even better and due to an issue we managed to get it upped to 3 years, but having a tech pop around to your house next day was great for him.

Dunno man, as a professional user of the Mac, Apple seems intent on pissing me off. First time ever I've not bought a new design MBP. Really want to keep one system on OS X, as benefit still remains, equally Apple's fixation with "Thinner" & greed astounds; power extensions, dongles should all be in the box; RAM and storage should be priced reasonably. Really need a new Mac notebook, used to be an instant purchase, sadly not so today.

Cost I don't care as my notebooks generally pay for themselve inside two days, however the principle really sicks in my ass, and for me my needs the MBP is in reverse. When I visit facilities people frequently comment on my hardware as it's always been very far from the average corporate box, difference these days is Microsoft is getting that Kudos & Halo effect and that one is solely on Apple...

Q-6
 
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I don't understand why we can't have a 15" with no Touch Bar as an option..

Bean Counter Tim loves SKU's!

Please add some more SKU's for the 15" and let the consumer decide if they want that little useless gimmick or not..
 
Dunno man, as a professional user of the Mac, Apple seems intent on pissing me off. First time ever I've not bought a new design MBP. Really want to keep one system on OS X, as benefit still remains, equally Apple's fixation with "Thinner" & greed astounds; power extensions, dongles should all be in the box; RAM and storage should be priced reasonably. Really need a new Mac notebook, used to be an instant purchase, sadly not so today.

Cost I don't care as my notebooks generally pay for themselve inside two days, however the principle really sicks in my ass, and for me my needs the MBP is in reverse. When I visit facilities people frequently comment on my hardware as it's always been very far from the average corporate box, difference these days is Microsoft is getting that Kudos & Halo effect and that one is solely on Apple...

Q-6


This realization came to me recently after I fried the logic board of my brand new 2017 MBP 13" after spilling soda on it and Apple wanted over $1,600 to fix it. Good Lord I know I screwed up but since these new Macbooks have become so thin, they have also become almost non repairable to anyone other than Apple, thus we are left to pay more Apple tax. The 2017 are great computers but very flawed in many ways due to their price to feature/performance ratio.

As a replacement I bought a "New" 2017 Dell XPS 9560 off the Dell Outlet and with discounts got it to $1560 with NY taxes and free 2nd day shipping. If you don't need OSX and don't mind W10 I would highly suggest looking at some PCs since they can be cheaper, always have sales/rebates, and offer great specs. The 9560 I got with the i7 512HD and 16GB Touch 4K screen and fingerprint reader is equivalent to the Macbook Pro 15 that retails for $2800 not including taxes, but the Dell has up-gradable ram/WIFI/hard drives, ports galore, a comfortable keyboard, better graphics, and higher resolution screen for about half the price when you consider taxes.

Don't get me wrong Apple products are still great but at a certain point money talks. Yeah I am dumb to have spilled soda on my laptop and not everyone will have this kind of catastrophic failure, but for the ones who do Apple is saying pretty much just saying get a new one $$$
 
This realization came to me recently after I fried the logic board of my brand new 2017 MBP 13" after spilling soda on it and Apple wanted over $1,600 to fix it. Good Lord I know I screwed up but since these new Macbooks have become so thin, they have also become almost non repairable to anyone other than Apple, thus we are left to pay more Apple tax. The 2017 are great computers but very flawed in many ways due to their price to feature/performance ratio.

As a replacement I bought a "New" 2017 Dell XPS 9560 off the Dell Outlet and with discounts got it to $1560 with NY taxes and free 2nd day shipping. If you don't need OSX and don't mind W10 I would highly suggest looking at some PCs since they can be cheaper, always have sales/rebates, and offer great specs. The 9560 I got with the i7 512HD and 16GB Touch 4K screen and fingerprint reader is equivalent to the Macbook Pro 15 that retails for $2800 not including taxes, but the Dell has up-gradable ram/WIFI/hard drives, ports galore, a comfortable keyboard, better graphics, and higher resolution screen for about half the price when you consider taxes.

Don't get me wrong Apple products are still great but at a certain point money talks. Yeah I am dumb to have spilled soda on my laptop and not everyone will have this kind of catastrophic failure, but for the ones who do Apple is saying pretty much just saying get a new one $$$

Right now I am in the process of replacing my last Mac used professionally; 12" rMB with a Huawei MateBook X, it's pretty much equally priced, with similar footprint & build quality, yet it's a 13" has two USB C ports, full i5/i7U series CPU that's passively cooled, has an excellent keyboard for this class of machine and it's spill resistant, and has a sensible USB C dock included in the box. For the prices Apple is charging we should fully demand far more, not accept being pissed on from a great height...

Worth a watch, especially around 2:12
This is how all notebooks should be made in 2017 as accidents can and do happen...

Q-6
 
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Right now I am in the process of replacing my last Mac used professionally; 12" rMB with a Huawei MateBook X, it's pretty much equally priced, with similar footprint & build quality, yet it's a 13" has two USB C ports, full i5/i7U series CPU that's passively cooled, has an excellent keyboard for this class of machine and it's spill resistant, and has a sensible USB C dock included in the box. For the prices Apple is charging we should fully demand far more, not accept being pissed on from a great height...

Worth a watch, especially around 2:12
This is how all notebooks should be made in 2017 as accidents can and do happen...

Q-6
Yeah I noticed all the tech bloggers talking about this laptop. The one issue I guess I have with it is service since Huawei doesn't have a massive US footprint. I love how they still used "Space Grey" as a color option, no shame! If you get it let us know it seems like a great MB alternative
 
Yeah I noticed all the tech bloggers talking about this laptop. The one issue I guess I have with it is service since Huawei doesn't have a massive US footprint. I love how they still used "Space Grey" as a color option, no shame! If you get it let us know it seems like a great MB alternative

It's already done Huawei MateBook X Thread nor does the Huawei disappoint...

Q-6
 
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Right now I am in the process of replacing my last Mac used professionally; 12" rMB with a Huawei MateBook X, it's pretty much equally priced, with similar footprint & build quality, yet it's a 13" has two USB C ports, full i5/i7U series CPU that's passively cooled, has an excellent keyboard for this class of machine and it's spill resistant, and has a sensible USB C dock included in the box. For the prices Apple is charging we should fully demand far more, not accept being pissed on from a great height...

Worth a watch, especially around 2:12
This is how all notebooks should be made in 2017 as accidents can and do happen...

Q-6

Waterfalled on, more like.
 
Waterfalled on, more like.

Judging by the presenters expressions I don't think they planned to spill quite so much liquid over the MateBook X, might also be in the commentary or a follow up. As it wasn't their intention to drench the notebook :p

All kudos to Huawei with the MB-X seemingly impervious to such treatment. This and many other aspects really make me question Apple these days. Seems more and more Apple is a company full of excuses. Spill resistance who doesn't want such resilience in any portable device, let alone expensive notebooks...

Q-6
 
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why is battery life not like iPad

Are you really asking that question? Guess you are.

The answer in short is workload and hardware requirements.

Usually, you work in a single app on iPad. Many more are "frozen" in app switcher. It became 2 recently, and today, with iOS 11, you can work on 3 simultaneously, if I am not wrong.

macOS: any number of apps. And usually, far more number of processes. Consumes more battery.

iPad does not have a physical keyboard to drive. Ports to power. Trackpad and all the gadgetry. Doesn't have fans to power. Doesn't have the more power-consuming CPU inside. All that works in favour of iPad and battery.

Although, playing a game on iPad, you can kill an iPad's battery faster than you'd kill the MacBook's playing a game that is in a totally different league from the one on iPad. There are a lot of crisscrossing factors affecting battery life on both platforms. It is not wise to compare battery life between form factors this way.

Compare battery life of MacBook 12 with Huawei MateBook X .. MBP 13 and 15 with respective laptops from other brands, not a 12 inch with a 15 inch and say why can't 15 have the same battery life as 12 inch.


On another note, I can't help but asking, since you are comparing the battery life of a laptop to a tablet, might I ask why not a Nokia 3310? ;)
 
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Are you really asking that question? Guess you are.

The answer in short is workload and hardware requirements.

Usually, you work in a single app on iPad. Many more are "frozen" in app switcher. It became 2 recently, and today, with iOS 11, you can work on 3 simultaneously, if I am not wrong.

macOS: any number of apps. And usually, far more number of processes. Consumes more battery.

iPad does not have a physical keyboard to drive. Ports to power. Trackpad and all the gadgetry. Doesn't have fans to power. Doesn't have the more power-consuming CPU inside. All that works in favour of iPad and battery.

Although, playing a game on iPad, you can kill an iPad's battery faster than you'd kill the MacBook's playing a game that is in a totally different league from the one on iPad. There are a lot of crisscrossing factors affecting battery life on both platforms. It is not wise to compare battery life between form factors this way.

Compare battery life of MacBook 12 with Huawei MateBook X .. MBP 13 and 15 with respective laptops from other brands, not a 12 inch with a 15 inch and say why can't 15 have the same battery life as 12 inch.


On another note, I can't help but asking, since you are comparing the battery life of a laptop to a tablet, might I ask why not a Nokia 3310? ;)
I apologize
 
I feel compelled to write this post based on all the hate I see for the new MBP's on this forum. I had a 2015 13" MBP but wanted to upgrade to a 15" MBP. All of the negativity almost stopped me from picking one up but now that I have, I am so thankful I did. I skipped the 2016 as a result of the negativity but when the 2017 came out, I reevaluated. In the short amount of time I have had it, it has been a great machine. So, let this post stand as a record for all those on the fence, my thoughts as a happy purchaser.

I'm going to keep this simple and list what I like:
  • I enjoy the keyboard. There is an adjustment period for it, but once you're past it, it is a pleasure to use, IMO. The reduced key travel doesn't bother me at all because the "clickiness" of the keys gives me great feedback. The keyboard is a little loud, but I actually like the clicking sound.

  • I love the touch bar. It is sleek, looks sharp, and highly customizable. It is great to answer and end calls (this is a little thing that is honestly just so enjoyable), pull up a quick emoji, iMessage tapback, scrub through video, quickly flag/trash e-mails, and is better to change volume/brightness IMO. Being able to slide the brightness or volume to desired levels with one swipe IS more convenient than repeated taps to get it where you want it. When I learned I could just touch those and swipe all in the same move, that was huge.

    I keep reading that the TB is a waste of time because keyboard shortcuts are faster. That may very well be true but for someone who uses few keyboard shortcuts past CMD V & CMD C, it IS a time saver. For someone that also doesn't live and die by function keys, this is a much better use of the area. I can't wait to see what else I gain from it the more I use it.

  • I'll take the large touch pad any day of the week. My biggest complaint using any notebook has been with dragging and selecting while using a touch pad and reaching the edge - not any more.

  • Sound is great and loud.

  • Gorgeous design. So sleek compared to the 2015 model.

  • TouchID and ApplePay - amazing to have on a MacBook.

  • USBC - glad to be future proofed. A couple adapters as necessary doesn't bother me. I have a MBP to be mobile and don't have it connected to many peripherals in the first place.
To be fair, some things I miss:
  • Mag safe - such a thoughtful feature but not a deal breaker. The versatility of USBC trumps MagSafe.

  • For nostalgia purposes the startup chime and glowing logo. Not a deal breaker though as these things are so minor.

  • SD removal hurts a little but again, nothing I can't work around.

  • Price. Ouch. Resale value and years of usage as well as the fact that this is a tool and hence a money maker help in this department.
  • I was annoyed having to buy the extension cable separately. It was only $19 - but still.
In short, I'm very satisfied with my upgrade (from a 2015). There are a few small compromises but for my use, the good outweighs the bad by a mile. If you're on the fence I highly recommend going to the Apple Store and taking advantage of the 14 day return window and taking a MBP for a test drive. It takes some time to appreciate some of the changes and features. Don't let all the hate scare you from giving it a try - it's the best notebook I've ever owned*. If these forums are all you're reading, I'm sure you're convinced it's a flop which just isn't true.

*Before anyone starts ragging on about the XPS being a great alternative, I will add this:

My work provides me with a Dell XPS15. I have a top spec'd 2017 model that I have used extensively since spring - it wasn't cheap. I had a 2014 model before that, and a 2013 model before that. It's a great machine (for Windows) and I very much appreciate having a quality machine if I have to use Windows. As great as it is compared to everything else out there, it is still miles behind the Mac. Bloat ware out of the box, Windows 10 convoluted control panel (the settings App and traditional control panel housing different settings), a weird buzzing noise that I'm not sure if it's the processor or something to do with the power (I can hear it in my office just flipping through e-mails - any time I input to the computer, it gets louder), driver issues, lack of parity between hardware and software, abhorrent update situation (windows update, dell update, driver updates, software updates - 100 different places to check/perform updates), and weird keyboard light leak out of the box. Windows just isn't there yet despite how far they've come - same with Dell hardware.

I made the leap from a 12" MB to a 15" MBP, and agree with a lot of this.

I really dislike the keyboard on my 12" MB (but otherwise it's a great machine), but I think in the new MBP they have perfected the design. This might be the best keyboard I have tried.

With respect to the TB, I'm still on the fence. I'm starting to find uses. For example in the Photos app, it gives a new way to scroll through pictures. And in full screen the UI elements disappear, so the TB is very useful. But otherwise, I'm not so sure.
 
With respect to the TB, I'm still on the fence. I'm starting to find uses. For example in the Photos app, it gives a new way to scroll through pictures. And in full screen the UI elements disappear, so the TB is very useful. But otherwise, I'm not so sure.

Let me offer you some more use cases that I use for TB. I have customised TB in Safari to display things I want. I have customised it in OmniOutliner and I have customised it in Bear Writer app. I have customised it differently in Transmit 5. Same goes for some other software. I have customised Finder with it. I now have a New Folder from Selection button by default that enables me to select items on desktop with my right hand on trackpad and using the left hand I tap that folder button and a new folder gets created with that selection inside. Saves some steps for me. Same goes for Delete. Have a trash can button now. Select items and hit the can button instead of drag or right click > Move to Trash. This means that I can actually be more productive because now I have fewer clicks or drag times.

TB hasn’t gotten much love from people on this forum because of hard, dried, rigid mindset that’s totally unyielding and unwilling to spend time with the new to understand what the new is all about. We are just too quick to dismiss because of said mindset.

Try it. Any app that allows customisation of Touch Bar will offer you ways to enrich your TB usage and you will quickly fall in love with the customisation this new avenue offers, instead of a wasted row of buttons that you’d use sporadically.
 
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TB hasn’t gotten much love from people on this forum because or hard, dried, rigid mindset that’s totally unyielding and unwilling to spend time with the new to understand what the new is all about. We are just too quick to dismiss because of said mindset.

Actually, it's not just the mindset. For me TB is useless. Yes, you can make deleting an item with just one click. I will press two keys for the same action. But then again, I will be faster then you. You have to look at the TB to make your action - I don't.

Every aspect of TB with customisations you talk about, I can do them without a TB. And without looking down from the screen. I can even manage to get just one click delete as well if I wanted to. You see, keyboard shortcuts are customisable as well. And with keyboard maestro, I am one shortcut away from closing dozens of apps, and opening dozens of apps.

TB brings nothing to the table that can't already be done. And even if it did, selecting a MBP without TB should be there, just for the sake of us who are 'close minded' people :)

P.S.
Some developers like myself loved MBP's. Try using touchbar with VIM. Enjoy it :D
 
Actually, it's not just the mindset. For me TB is useless. Yes, you can make deleting an item with just one click. I will press two keys for the same action. But then again, I will be faster then you. You have to look at the TB to make your action - I don't.

Every aspect of TB with customisations you talk about, I can do them without a TB. And without looking down from the screen. I can even manage to get just one click delete as well if I wanted to. You see, keyboard shortcuts are customisable as well. And with keyboard maestro, I am one shortcut away from closing dozens of apps, and opening dozens of apps.

TB brings nothing to the table that can't already be done. And even if it did, selecting a MBP without TB should be there, just for the sake of us who are 'close minded' people :)

P.S.
Some developers like myself loved MBP's. Try using touchbar with VIM. Enjoy it :D

While you have excellent use case scenarios for you and many more, the first bolded sentence is a wrong assumption. For me, peripheral vision works, and I do not need to look down to hit some keys on the touch bar - more I use, faster I get. In some way, you are really hinting at that same mindset, except in really specialised cases such as VIM. I never said it was perfect. :D I am talking from a "normal" user perspective, not absolute nanosecond-hungry devs.

The second bolded sentence, going with that, that can be said of a lot of things. It was never about being able to do that what hasn't already be done, it was more about offering a more dynamic way to do a myriad of things more. You are absolutely right in that aspect that TB should have remained an option to satisfy all gentry - those who like it can get it, those who don't want it, leave it. Touch ID should have come standard.

I bought the TB version primarily because of Touch ID and because I wanted to explore Touch Bar and knew I would find it meaningful for me. In case I did not, I would have loved to have an option to buy a model without it.
 
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The second bolded sentence, going with that, that can be said of a lot of things. It was never about being able to do that what hasn't already be done, it was more about offering a more dynamic way to do a myriad of things more.

Dynamic way of doing things? What does that even mean? And how does it benefit pros in any way, shape or form? It's an honest question, no sarcasm there. We live and learn :)

Myriad of things more? Like what? I guess giving me 10 examples at least then wouldn't hurt? Because I have used TB, not just in Apple Store (no Apple store in my country at all :( ), but we have a few of them around in our company. And 0 programmers want them, and I really have to find a graphic artists (affinity/adobe + 3D) that uses them.

But like I said, I could be wrong. I am not claiming that I am right at all. I am just claiming that TB brings a 'solution' to a problem that never existed. And in the process creates a few problems for pro users.


You are absolutely right in that aspect that TB should have remained an option to satisfy all gentry - those who like it can get it, those who don't want it, leave it. Touch ID should have come standard.

Touch ID could remain even without TB. But like I said, I have nothing against TB. Leave it. As an option. And then we wouldn't even have this thread :)

I bought the TB version primarily because of Touch ID and because I wanted to explore Touch Bar and knew I would find it meaningful for me. In case I did not, I would have loved to have an option to buy a model without it.

Touch ID is great addition. I wanted that on MBP for ever. But Touch ID could be there without TB, easily. And it's a shame Apple didn't take that route. They don't want touch screens on laptops/desktops, and I really don't want those either. Keep those for tablets/phones. Or offer them as an option. I really don't care, as long as I have a option to choose.

But with solo TB 'choice', Apple left me with just one choice: jump ship and buy Lenovo :)
 
The one thing I love the most about my 2017 MacBook Pro is something I wasn't expecting to love. I absolutely love the trackpad. I love the size and I haven't been having any palm rejection issues. I really love that the force touch allows me to adjust the clicking to a very very light touch/tap and that this tap/touch is the same all over the trackpad. I can now move and click more rapidly. Where I use to aim for a touch point on the screen and then lift my finger and use my thumb to click, I can now do it in one smooth action. I can now simply aim for a touch point, and immediately lightly press into the trackpad and click all without lifting my finger. This has allowed me to work so much more quickly in my clinic's electronic medical system that has way too many clicks.
 
Dynamic way of doing things? What does that even mean? And how does it benefit pros in any way, shape or form? It's an honest question, no sarcasm there. We live and learn :)

Myriad of things more? Like what? I guess giving me 10 examples at least then wouldn't hurt? Because I have used TB, not just in Apple Store (no Apple store in my country at all :( ), but we have a few of them around in our company. And 0 programmers want them, and I really have to find a graphic artists (affinity/adobe + 3D) that uses them.

But like I said, I could be wrong. I am not claiming that I am right at all. I am just claiming that TB brings a 'solution' to a problem that never existed. And in the process creates a few problems for pro users.




Touch ID could remain even without TB. But like I said, I have nothing against TB. Leave it. As an option. And then we wouldn't even have this thread :)



Touch ID is great addition. I wanted that on MBP for ever. But Touch ID could be there without TB, easily. And it's a shame Apple didn't take that route. They don't want touch screens on laptops/desktops, and I really don't want those either. Keep those for tablets/phones. Or offer them as an option. I really don't care, as long as I have a option to choose.

But with solo TB 'choice', Apple left me with just one choice: jump ship and buy Lenovo :)
One dynamic aspect of the TB is the word suggestions. I actually find those quite useful. Not directly while typing, because I would have to look at the keyboard. But if I make a typo, resulting in a red line under the word, I can just backspace, and then the touch bar often has the correct words suggested. All without leaving the keyboard and using the mouse.
 
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Dynamic way of doing things? What does that even mean? And how does it benefit pros in any way, shape or form? It's an honest question, no sarcasm there. We live and learn :)

Myriad of things more? Like what? I guess giving me 10 examples at least then wouldn't hurt? Because I have used TB, not just in Apple Store (no Apple store in my country at all :( ), but we have a few of them around in our company. And 0 programmers want them, and I really have to find a graphic artists (affinity/adobe + 3D) that uses them.

But like I said, I could be wrong. I am not claiming that I am right at all. I am just claiming that TB brings a 'solution' to a problem that never existed. And in the process creates a few problems for pro users.




Touch ID could remain even without TB. But like I said, I have nothing against TB. Leave it. As an option. And then we wouldn't even have this thread :)



Touch ID is great addition. I wanted that on MBP for ever. But Touch ID could be there without TB, easily. And it's a shame Apple didn't take that route. They don't want touch screens on laptops/desktops, and I really don't want those either. Keep those for tablets/phones. Or offer them as an option. I really don't care, as long as I have a option to choose.

But with solo TB 'choice', Apple left me with just one choice: jump ship and buy Lenovo :)

Absolutely correct. That's what I concurred as well, Touch ID should have come standard, and Touch Bar should have remained an option. There are many users hard set in their workflows for whom the tactical feel is not just desired but important and critical, and they won't be one bit happy with anything that makes them change their workflows or alter in any way. It is understandable.

However, for casual users, it is a more dynamic way of doing things. With this, I mean one simple thing:

On my old MBP 2011, whether or not I am in Finder, Safari, Transmit, Photoshop.. whether or not I am watching a video on YouTube or iTunes and listening to music or anything for that matter, the top function bar remains as such. Rigid. Just there. Irrelevant to me many times.

On 2016 MBP, when my notebook boots up, there is a customised button row on the Touch Bar that is relevant to my workflow. I have a lot of files on the desktop that get stashed up and then I will just one day sort them out. Touch Bar customisation helps save a few trackpad cursor movements.

In Safari, I now use the new tab button instead of Command T or dragging the mouse to the + in the browser window. Same for adding bookmarks.

Playing a video or audio, scrubbing on TB is far more useful. Earlier, playing a video, I would have to roll my finger on trackpad to get the mouse and the OSD. I could use it to see the time remaining or to then drag the pointer to the place where I want to. Today, scrubber resolves on both counts. Time remaining is there, scrubbing is always available.

Overall, these are not necessary things at all. But they do aid. They help. They make workflows sometimes easier, sometimes a pain. For someone like me, they are beneficial, and I am sure for many more they will be a royal pain in the butt that only Apple could cause.

Hence, dismissing it is a folly on users' part, and not having an option for No TB to those who do not want it, a folly on Apple's part.
 
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Hence, dismissing it is a folly on users' part, and not having an option for No TB to those who do not want it, a folly on Apple's part.

I wasn't dismissing TB at all. I see some people find it useful, and that is great. But what I am dismissing as a folly is not offering non-tb version. So I have to conclude one rather simple thing:

We have achieved the impossible.

We have actually agreed :D
 
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I wasn't dismissing TB at all. I see some people find it useful, and that is great. But what I am dismissing as a folly is not offering non-tb version. So I have to conclude one rather simple thing:

We have achieved the impossible.

We have actually agreed :D

Amen!
 
I was annoyed having to buy the extension cable separately. It was only $19 - but still.

Not sure if is true, did not check my self but the extension cable is hiddden between the MacBook paper box and the plastic box inside.

You need to use a knife since the plastic holding the charger is glued to the paper box
 
Excellent write up.

I was one of the early haters of the keyboard, after playing with it extensively last year. When '17s came out, I decided to give it an honest try, and I'm mostly a convert now. Is it perfect? No, because it's too loud. Other than that, I like it, after the adjustment period.

The Touch Bar and I have a love-and-hate relationship - for some things it is great, but for more classic usage that involves function keys/ESC key, it sucks. It's something different though, and I'm hoping it will be customized more in the future.

Overall, I really like the new MBP, but I still wish it was a little bit thicker to keep a bigger battery, and the lack of ports is annoying. I got a dock and few adapters, but it just seems silly to keep hunting for them every time I have to put in an SD card, USB drive, HDMI, etc.
 
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