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I’m not sure why no one is really suggestions it, but I would definitely go with the 16 or 20 in relation to gaming. (Unless you plan on or could us a external gpu setup) from benchmarks I’ve seen the Vega 20 is 30-70 percent faster than the 560x! Definitely not inconsequential for gaming. I would asleep recommend against the upgraded cpu. Not worth the cost.


Because it's more than just a question of performance. Going by the OP's starting post, I think the 560X is fine. The Vega 20 is a good chunk faster for games, yes, but it's also a good chunk more expensive. The OP has been well served by a 12" MacBook and doesn't have really demanding needs. Would games run faster with the Vega? Absolutely. But they'd run fast enough to entertain the OP with the 560X too.
 
I'll tell you how the whole "Vega is cooler" started: RX was getting in high power state when connected to external monitor. Vega did not. Apple fixed this on RX couple of months ago, but the perception remains.

I saw your previous posts about 560X going into max power mode when external displays connected.

I want to buy a 2019 MBP

I run 2x LG UltraFine 5K displays (Thunderbolt 3) with MBP closed in clamshell mode.
I mainly do Web, no games, but often run Apple Photos (which I see uses the discrete GPU in Activity Monitor)
I want less fan noise.

560X or Vega 20?
 
I saw your previous posts about 560X going into max power mode when external displays connected.

I want to buy a 2019 MBP

I run 2x LG UltraFine 5K displays (Thunderbolt 3) with MBP closed in clamshell mode.
I mainly do Web, no games, but often run Apple Photos (which I see uses the discrete GPU in Activity Monitor)
I want less fan noise.

560X or Vega 20?
I'd say Vega, I have only 1440p ultra wide and the RX consumes 5W in clamshell mode now, which jumps to 10W if the laptop display is also on, but with two 5k's I wouldn't dare. Better yet - eGPU if you don't need dGPU on the go, but you would need to do some research which cards would support those two monitors, if any. You can get something like Sapphire Pulse RX580 for less than $200, it will have similar performance to Vega 20 but it is dead silent even at full load. But it only has two DP ports, not sure if this would work with 2x5k.

What MBP do you have now? I guess it has to be something with RX, can you check what power is the Radeon drawing with those monitors connected? It should be similar to what the 2019 with RX does.
 
What MBP do you have now? I guess it has to be something with RX, can you check what power is the Radeon drawing with those monitors connected? It should be similar to what the 2019 with RX does.

Currently running
MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2017)
2.8 Core i7/16GB/Radeon Pro 560
Clamshell mode
2x LG UltraFine 5K displays

Fan mostly off if just browsing web and Apple mail.

How do I check the power?

There is scant information out there whether upgrading the GPU is better for multiple 5K displays.

Unfortunately neither the Mac Mini nor the trashcan Mac Pro can drive 2x 5K displays so I’m stuck with a laptop in clamshell mode. The iMac Pro mismatched against an LG 5K doesn’t appeal at all.
 
Gents - I really appreciate the active discussion and great advice!

Yesterday I purchased the 2.3Ghz I9 8-core, 560X, 512Tb. I listened to your advice and really thought hard about what I use this computer for. We have an Alienware R6 desktop with a 1080Ti that can play any game at full graphics settings. I also didn't want to do a Bootcamp partition on this new MBP when I seriously thought about how many times I would actually use it.

I really like this new MBP, although the size will take some getting used to. I went from a 2010 17" MBP to my little 12" MB and I recall that being a nightmare transition. Well, now it's going the other way. I'm hitting wrong keys while typing all the time and the trackpad is HUGE.

The fans spun up as I was doing the initial transfer between computers and it was like a small jet plane in the house. I thought, oh man, this is not going to be acceptable. The 12" never made a peep. I don't think it has fans, actually.

The screen real estate is such a welcome change as is the True Tone setting. Such a nice mellow glow and easy on the eyes.

Have to admit I almost shed a tear as I completely wiped my little MB last night and reinstalled OS Mojave on it. Soon it will be in a box on its way to recycling.

Thanks again for the help. Sometimes you need to think about what you really need versus what you imagine yourself doing.
 
Fan mostly off if just browsing web and Apple mail.

How do I check the power?
iStatMenus, get the version from the developer website, not the one from App Store - not that much sandboxed, more sensors and fan control. If your 2017 drives them without issues then the 2019 RX will do the same, they’re pretty much the same cards.

Have to admit I almost shed a tear as I completely wiped my little MB last night and reinstalled OS Mojave on it. Soon it will be in a box on its way to recycling.

Keep it, in the bedroom nightstand, on the kitchen table, I love the 12 inch - this is something that doesn't really have a good equivalent in the windows world - small, light, passive cooled, without touch. I'll get another one once they put Ice Lake in it.
 
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The fans spun up as I was doing the initial transfer between computers and it was like a small jet plane in the house. I thought, oh man, this is not going to be acceptable. The 12" never made a peep. I don't think it has fans, actually.

The 12" is entirely passively cooled, yes. No fans, just the aluminium shell for dissipating heat.
Hope you get used to the fans.
I can say that I'm so used to my MacBook Pro and iMac's fans that I can blast them on max and not really notice too much after half a minute or so. And my iMac's fan goes to 3600RPM rather than the standard 2700RPM.

In any case, you have a whooooole lot more power in that computer than in your 12" MacBook. Hopefully the experience of that will be enough to make up for the fans when they do kick in :). - But most the time once you get settled in, it should stay quiet enough.
 
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Since I use clamshell 99.9% I’m starting to think by the time I upgrade to Vega 20, 32GB and 1TB, it’s not much more to buy the iMac Pro. The price difference is the cost of another 5K display (kinda). I could put the pro in the middle and have 3 displays! Seems a lot more bang for buck.
 
Currently running
MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2017)
2.8 Core i7/16GB/Radeon Pro 560
Clamshell mode
2x LG UltraFine 5K displays

RADEON PRO 560 with 2x 5K displays attached
Temp 54c/130F, Power 25W (GPU Dependencies: External Display)
Temp 61c/142F, Power 32W (GPU Dependencies: External Display, Apple Photos)
Temp 61c/142F, Power 34W (GPU Dependencies: External Display, Apple Photos, Elmedia Player film playing)

I closed down Photos and Elmedia again and just using Safari (10 tabs), Apple Mail, iTunes, on the two monitors, and it's back to 25W.

Thysanoptera, I was intrigued about your comments on this post https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...uch-is-vega-any-better.2162941/#post-26955607 where you mention "There is one scenario where Vega is cooler, and this is if you attach external display without enabling any 3D or compute application, Vega doesn't enter high power state when that happens while RX series does, and this makes it significantly cooler than RX. So if you attach external displays directly to your MBP that alone would make the Vega worth it"

Are my numbers in line with your comments?
 
RADEON PRO 560 with 2x 5K displays attached
Temp 54c/130F, Power 25W (GPU Dependencies: External Display)
Temp 61c/142F, Power 32W (GPU Dependencies: External Display, Apple Photos)
Temp 61c/142F, Power 34W (GPU Dependencies: External Display, Apple Photos, Elmedia Player film playing)

Thanks! For reference - my 555x is at 5W when connected to single 3440x1440, and at 10W when internal display is also active. Could you check what happens if only one of them is connected?
Thysanoptera, I was intrigued about your comments on this post https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...uch-is-vega-any-better.2162941/#post-26955607 where you mention "There is one scenario where Vega is cooler, and this is if you attach external display without enabling any 3D or compute application, Vega doesn't enter high power state when that happens while RX series does, and this makes it significantly cooler than RX. So if you attach external displays directly to your MBP that alone would make the Vega worth it"

Are my numbers in line with your comments?
That quote isn't valid anymore, at least for low resolution displays. Apple fixed the issue on RX. When I wrote that I was getting similar power consumption to your 2x5k while running just a single FHD display. Unfortunately I didn't write the numbers, but it was enough to kick the fans in high gear which happens at around 20W, heating the whole computer. It was so annoying i just bought eGPU. At the same time the only reference to 5k and Vega was one post, comparing idle temperatures with and without 5k display attached - the difference was only 7C with the same, idle fan speeds, which would indicate only 5W of power increase or so here - 15" i7 MBP 2017 vs 2018 temperature?. @fpenta - did you get iStatMenu since by any chance and could tell us what the power consumption of Vega with 5K is?
 
Sort of related, what are people thoughts on upgrading the RAM from 16 to 32GB? I'm currently using an Early 2013 MBPr 15" and want to upgrade. I plan to get the 2.3/512/560X model but a friend highly recommended me to upgrade the RAM to 32GB. I'd like to hear people's thoughts on that.
 
Sort of related, what are people thoughts on upgrading the RAM from 16 to 32GB? I'm currently using an Early 2013 MBPr 15" and want to upgrade. I plan to get the 2.3/512/560X model but a friend highly recommended me to upgrade the RAM to 32GB. I'd like to hear people's thoughts on that.

yea it's one of the more "future-proof" upgrades you can get on a MBP.
No matter what you do it *almost* always provide bigger benefits.
 
Thanks! For reference - my 555x is at 5W when connected to single 3440x1440, and at 10W when internal display is also active. Could you check what happens if only one of them is connected?

With no dGPU apps running, when just internal display plus one 5K display, it ran at 25W. It didn't make any difference running 1x 5K or 2x 5K, it pretty much sits at 25W. When I removed both 5K displays, and only ran internal display, with no dGPU apps, it stopped using it and disappeared. As soon as I plugged 1x 5K display back in, it appeared again and stayed at 25W. When I plugged the second 2K display in, it stayed at 25W, with no dGPU apps running.

Given all that, would Vega 20 run cooler? Certainly most of the time I have no fans at all, with the 2x 5K displays, doing Mail, Safari. And then I occasionally run photos using the dGPU and it goes up to 32W-34W or so. What will Vega 20 do for me compared with the 560X?

NB: All of the above is written with the assumption that my 560 is going to be similar to the new 560X in terms of power draw.
 
With no dGPU apps running, when just internal display plus one 5K display, it ran at 25W. It didn't make any difference running 1x 5K or 2x 5K, it pretty much sits at 25W. When I removed both 5K displays, and only ran internal display, with no dGPU apps, it stopped using it and disappeared. As soon as I plugged 1x 5K display back in, it appeared again and stayed at 25W. When I plugged the second 2K display in, it stayed at 25W, with no dGPU apps running.

Given all that, would Vega 20 run cooler? Certainly most of the time I have no fans at all, with the 2x 5K displays, doing Mail, Safari or basic Photos.
Wow, that's a shocker, I was expecting much lower than that and at least some change when only one is connected. What are the temperatures doing - Vega was only 7C hotter with one 5k with both fans at idle (2k rpm). 25W is not that far from the 35W max, your temperature must be somewhat high if the fans are still at idle speeds.
 
Sort of related, what are people thoughts on upgrading the RAM from 16 to 32GB? I'm currently using an Early 2013 MBPr 15" and want to upgrade. I plan to get the 2.3/512/560X model but a friend highly recommended me to upgrade the RAM to 32GB. I'd like to hear people's thoughts on that.


If you are going to keep you MBP for another 5-6 years than that might make sense. If you get rid of them sooner, then unless you have something currently that can benefit from the memory, I question it's value. I upgrade every 2/3 years so only buy what I need today.
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Gents - I really appreciate the active discussion and great advice!

Yesterday I purchased the 2.3Ghz I9 8-core, 560X, 512Tb. I listened to your advice and really thought hard about what I use this computer for. We have an Alienware R6 desktop with a 1080Ti that can play any game at full graphics settings. I also didn't want to do a Bootcamp partition on this new MBP when I seriously thought about how many times I would actually use it.

I really like this new MBP, although the size will take some getting used to. I went from a 2010 17" MBP to my little 12" MB and I recall that being a nightmare transition. Well, now it's going the other way. I'm hitting wrong keys while typing all the time and the trackpad is HUGE.

The fans spun up as I was doing the initial transfer between computers and it was like a small jet plane in the house. I thought, oh man, this is not going to be acceptable. The 12" never made a peep. I don't think it has fans, actually.

The screen real estate is such a welcome change as is the True Tone setting. Such a nice mellow glow and easy on the eyes.

Have to admit I almost shed a tear as I completely wiped my little MB last night and reinstalled OS Mojave on it. Soon it will be in a box on its way to recycling.

Thanks again for the help. Sometimes you need to think about what you really need versus what you imagine yourself doing.

If you have a desktop with 1080Ti I would also definitely use that for gaming. Much faster, and quieter than a laptop and you can use a nice keyboard you can mash with WASD dedicated keys.

Give your MBP a couple of days of use to settle in. When you first start them they need to index a lot of files and can generate heat that fans need to extract. But after a few days that is done and thing settle down.

I agree with the screen. The new screens are just gorgeous!
 
Gents -

Long-time Apple person here. First Apple product I purchased was back in 1983 (Apple IIe) and I've had literally dozens since then. Actually, counting phones, watches, iPods and laptops, it's probably over a hundred!

My 12" Early 2015 MB is on its last legs. It needs yet another battery replacement and the keyboard is unresponsive for the fourth time. Rather than a new round of repairs it's time to upgrade.

I bought our son a 13" MBP last year and he loves it. Uses the Touch Bar every day and tells me every day it's the greatest.

I want to buy a new 2019 MBP - 15". It's been four years since I've had a new laptop and the 12" served me well but I need more power, more screen real estate, and more hard drive space. Apple will give me $395 trade in for this thing which isn't too shabby.

Some assistance please on recommended specs. I want the i9 8-core. I need 1Tb for the SSD but I'm a bit torn on the graphics and the processor. Should I elect to upgrade the processor it's around $180, and to go from the standard graphics to the most powerful is around $350. So we're talking around $500. I convinced myself that since this will need to last me at least 5 years I should max it out as that ends up being $100 a year. My 17" MBP lasted almost 7 years!

I want to run Windows 10 with Boot Camp and dedicate 400G to it. Honestly, 90% of the time on Windows I'll be playing games. Steam games, mostly. I'd love great performance and fast FPS. I imagine the difference between the two Vega HMD GPUs and increased processor speed would help a lot. I've tried researching it the best I could but it's difficult.

Some video editing although that's all iMovie. Some Garage Band. Basic stuff. Some photo editing. But nothing professional. Don't need Final Cut or Logic as I find the entry-level included apps to be sufficient.

But if I'm kidding myself with the difference in the two video cards and processors for what I want to do it would be nice to save the $500. Some reviews say they only kick in with multi-threading and serious video editing work. Seems like games could use the power, though - especially on the graphics upgrade.

Pretty excited about this computer. Any help is most appreciated.

(Edit: Regarding pricing - my current company has an employee discount so prices may differ from doing standard config changes on the Apple website)
I don’t think you’d need an 8 core or a Vega for those purposes. I’d take the base model and put the CPU and graphics money to SSD and RAM.

The base model 15 itself is a huge step in horsepower from the little 12 inch. Massive, really.
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Stay away from the CPU upgrade... Like really, stay away from it.

The difference in speed between the fastest i9 and the slower i9, is at best 2.5%. In Windows, it's 0%. You see, to run the CPUs at a high speed, Apple has not just increased heat dissipation through a better thermal interface than the last model, but they also do heavy undervaluing in macOS. That undervolting is not applied in Windows, meaning the CPU runs slower and hotter in Windows - It's not dangerous; It just won't run as fast cause it'll reach temperatures that are high enough that it slows down. So the faster chip will only be faster in macOS where the heat is managed, and even there, at most 2.5% or so.

Going for a Vega GPU can definitely make sense if gaming is important to you. A Vega in general will also produce less heat than a Polaris GPU, so it'll also allow the CPU to stretch its legs more in CPU+GPU workloads. But based on your general needs and the fact that an MB has been keeping you well served, it really is more of a case of "do you want it" than it really being something that'd benefit you. If you want it, the GPU upgrade can make sense as an entertainment add-on. The CPU will never make sense.

But if you're trying to get the GPU for the sake of "future-proofing", take that money and put it in a savings account for the next time you'll get a new MacBook Pro. That's a better future-proofing path. GPUs are still improving at a faster rate than CPUs, even with the recent boom in core-count, and Navi seems to bring major improvements; Currently only on desktops and by the end of 2020 consoles, but probably also for the next redesign of the MBP. If not an RDNA 2.0 chip by then.

I don't want to talk you out of a GPU upgrade if you want it for immediate entertainment value through boosting its game-playing abilities; Usually a mostly GPU limited task anyway - but I think you'd be satisfied with the 560X as well. If I had the budget I'd personalise pick the Vega, 20 if I could afford it but 16 would be nice enough. - But I'm sticking with my 2014... Also I'm a student so I don't have the budget :p. And my use-cases are also generally more demanding, though as it is now I get along alright with my 2014 MBP and iMac.
This 100 times. Also, not sure the concept of “future proofing” is really relevant anymore.
 
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