2020 iPad Pro May Not Have a U1 Ultra Wideband Chip After All

[HVDynamo]

Not sure why you need a wonky LiDAR Scanner on the one camera nobody uses either but here we are

I'm far more interested in the LiDAR camera since I do 3D printing and whatnot. If it could build a reasonably accurate 3D model by scanning an object that I could touch up a bit and print, it would be awesome. But that's really the only thing I care about it for right now. I think the real benefit of the LiDAR is when Augmented Reality really starts to become a thing that people use more frequently. It's still a little ways off yet, but that will help place things more accurately in the world, and a small LiDAR sensor like that could be a huge benefit to self driving cars as well.

The U1 chip, I think is nice, but I don't really care about Tags either, and I rarely air drop anything so it's benefit is very limited to me. So I really don't care about the U1 chip. I do just fine keeping track of my stuff as-is today.

Granted this is just my personal opinion on it. I can see how many people would care more about U1 today than LiDAR, but I'm the other way around.

 

[citysnaps]

I'm far more interested in the LiDAR camera since I do 3D printing and whatnot. If it could build a reasonably accurate 3D model by scanning an object that I could touch up a bit and print, it would be awesome. But that's really the only thing I care about it for right now. I think the real benefit of the LiDAR is when Augmented Reality really starts to become a thing that people use more frequently. It's still a little ways off yet, but that will help place things more accurately in the world, and a small LiDAR sensor like that could be a huge benefit to self driving cars as well.

The U1 chip, I think is nice, but I don't really care about Tags either, and I rarely air drop anything so it's benefit is very limited to me. So I really don't care about the U1 chip. I do just fine keeping track of my stuff as-is today.

Granted this is just my personal opinion on it. I can see how many people would care more about U1 today than LiDAR, but I'm the other way around.

And AR is already being used in the commercial world. AR-assisted surgery is a great example. Apple's entry into the field now that all of the pieces of tech are coming together will be huge.

Some apps and uses a tablet-based scanner and screen will be the ideal platform. For others, AR glasses will be more appropriate. Apple will have solutions for both.

 

[confirmed]

Breaking News: "Chipset and features not included in product announcement are not included in product."

Seriously, I hate to troll, but an article about a lack of evidence that the chipset exists should include some explanation or investigation into why it was originally thought that it did.

 

[Chompineer]

They are saving it for the premium 15 inch iPad Pro later this year with the A13X chip.

LOL. 15” iPad. Thing would bend under its own weight.

 

[Freida]

Not if you count the time it passed since the last model.

The doubling of the entry level’s storage and the 50% increase in RAM are worth way more than that $50.

 

[Justanotherfanboy]

I’m a bit confused on what this actually means...
If I understand correctly- whereas gps is accurate to about 1m, this can be accurate to .3cm. I can see how that’s ESSENTIAL in an “AirTag” product (1m might be the difference between my keys being in the kitchen utility drawer, or on the other side of the wall, out on the patio table). As long as the iPad can still receive the accurate data from the tags w/ the U1, I suppose it doesn’t need to have one itself.
Am I understanding the situation correctly?

 

[Woochoo]

all the more reason to wait for the next model.
hopefully it will have:
16GB or more of ram
A14 chip running over 3 GHZ
5G
Micro LED display!

Why do you need it to run at +3GHz? It's already faster rendering edited videos faster than the MBP 2018 (at least this A12X/Z chip) and I doubt there's something heavier than that you can do with the iPad.

In the future ARM Macs for sure we will need those high clockspeeds, but in in something like an iPad which is thermally (passive dissipation) limited there's no need. Also when you increase the frequency the power consumption and heat won't scale linearly but by square numbers. About the 16GB RAM... Unless your job is keeping as much tabs as possible open in your browser, it makes no sense

 

[EugW]

That unsureness I think that has to do with not understanding the potential of AR and Apple's investment into that area. The potential is huge, and the LiDAR Scanner is another piece of technology needed to get there.

Potential is there, like U1, but I suspect most people don't care.

 

[The Game 161]

all the more reason to wait for the next model.
hopefully it will have:
16GB or more of ram
A14 chip running over 3 GHZ
5G
Micro LED display!

Get real dude...

you will be looking at 5 years at least before all that....

 

[Nuno Lopes]

So basically Mr Cook is selling us a two year model as brand new.

It passes for new on technicalities. Not usage.

I wonder what SJ would say about that.

 

[citysnaps]

Potential is there, like U1, but I suspect most people don't care.

Far from wanting to speak for "most people," AR is here and being used. With the LiDAR sensor now available on the iPad, there will soon be interesting applications, both commercial and consumer, using Apple hardware and development tools for tablet-based AR applications. When Apple's AR glasses are released in the future, there will be even more, as some applications are better suited to glasses (and others to tablets).

While there are some who cannot see the potential beyond Pokemon Go, there are others who see a far greater use for AR.

 

[EugW]

Far from wanting to speak for "most people," AR is here and being used. With the LiDAR sensor now available on the iPad, there will soon be interesting applications, both commercial and consumer, using Apple hardware and development tools for tablet-based AR applications. When Apple's AR glasses are released in the future, there will be even more, as some applications are better suited to glasses (and others to tablets).

Lots of wills and whens in that post.

I actually happen to agree to an extent. This will be a useful development platform for those technologies, but most people aren't developers.

Real estate agents for example and some professionals will like this too, but for other users it will go unused. And yes, that's "most people" that won't really get much use out of it, at least in the near to mid-term. Long term is a different story, but by that time people will be ready for upgrades anyway.

 

[citysnaps]

Lots of wills and whens in that post.

I actually happen to agree to an extent. This will be a useful development platform for those technologies, but most people aren't developers.

Real estate agents for example and some professionals will like this too, but for other users it will go unused. And yes, that's "most people" that won't really get much use out of it, at least in the near to mid-term. Long term is a different story, but by that time people will be ready for upgrades anyway.

I hear you.

I remember when the iPod was released and the response was "Who asked for a thousand songs in your pocket?" riffing off Jobs' iPod slogan.

The first iPhone as panned as well, many saying who asked for a non-mechanical keyboard.

Regarding ifs and when's, that's the nature of development. All of the pieces are here now for tablet-based solutions. ARKit, a fast tablet with a large touch screen and LiDAR Scanner, and developers with imaginations. Next up will be AR glasses-based applications when Apple releases their glasses.

 

[EugW]

I hear you.

I remember when the iPod was released and the response was "Who asked for a thousand songs in your pocket?" riffing off Jobs' iPod slogan.

The first iPhone as panned as well, many saying who asked for a non-mechanical keyboard.

Regarding ifs and when's, that's the nature of development. All of the pieces are here now for tablet-based solutions. ARKit, a tablet with a large screen and LiDAR Scanner, and developers with imaginations. Next up will be AR glasses-based applications when Apple releases their glasses.

? I thought the iPod was the greatest thing since sliced bread. My main beef with it was the cost. IIRC too, that was the beef of a lot of others too, along with the FireWire and Mac requirement.

I also thought the iPhone was the greatest thing since the iPod. My main beef with it was the fact it was 2G. It was moot for me though since the 2G iPhone was never officially available in Canada anyway. When the 3G came out though, I ordered it day 1. As for the keyboard, IIRC, most weren't up in arms over the lack of a physical keyboard, mainly just the backward thinking Blackberry types.

In the very least, both the iPod and iPhone generated HUGE discussion in the tech world amongst consumers.

In contrast, U1 and Lidar have received a collective "meh" so far.

 

[PortoMavericks]

I think LiDAR will be great for commercial use in engineering and architecture.

 

[citysnaps]

? I thought the iPod was the greatest thing since sliced bread. My main beef with it was the cost. IIRC too, that was the beef of a lot of others too, along with the FireWire and Mac requirement.

I also thought the iPhone was the greatest thing since the iPod. My main beef with it was the fact it was 2G. It was moot for me though since the 2G iPhone was never officially available in Canada anyway. When the 3G came out though, I ordered it day 1. As for the keyboard, IIRC, most weren't up in arms over the lack of a physical keyboard, mainly just the backward thinking Blackberry types.

In the very least, both the iPod and iPhone generated HUGE discussion in the tech world amongst consumers.

In contrast, U1 and Lidar have received a collective "meh" so far.

One just needs to go back and look at MR forums to see the response to the first iPhone release. It's kind of funny. And predictable.

But that's the nature of technology and product development. It is always incremental. True with the iPhone (actually going back to the ROKR with Apple collaborating with Motorola because Apple at that point didn't have any cellular wireless expertise - Moto brought that to the table - a shrewd move by Jobs getting that difficult to acquire expertise that lead to the first iPhone), iPad, iPod, iMac, and on and on.

In today's (and the past) social networking climate, it's far easier to yawn and pan anything new, rather than put some serious thought into the potential of new technologies and how they can translate into creating interesting and useful products.

 

[EugW]

One just needs to go back and look at MR forums to see the response to the first iPhone release. It's kind of funny. And predictable.

But that's the nature of technology and product development. It is always incremental. True with the iPhone (actually going back to the ROKR with Apple collaborating with Motorola because Apple at that point didn't have any cellular wireless expertise - Moto brought that to the table - a shrewd move by Jobs that lead to the first iPhone), iPad, iPod, iMac, and on and on.

In today's (and the past) social networking climate, it's far easier to yawn and pan anything new, rather than put some serious thought into the potential of new technologies and how they can translate into creating interesting and useful products.

I thought the ROKR was awful.

Anyhow, I think our biases may lean to fit the argument. However, trying to be objective here.. but I seem to remember that while a lot of people criticized the original iPhone, the biggest criticism I remember was that it was just 2G. And that was a fair criticism. Yes, 3G chipsets at that time were high power, but it was reasonable nonetheless since 3G was rolling out. There were many other criticisms, but overall, the my recollection was that the reception to the iPhone release was very positive overall, and much, much better than the response to the ROKR.

In fact, my buddies drove down from Toronto to Buffalo to buy US 2G iPhones just to hack them to work in Canada. They offered to pick one up for me too, but despite my positive response to that iPhone release I said no, not wanting to deal with the hassle in a hacked pricey device, esp. since it was only 2G.

 

[citysnaps]

I thought the ROKR was awful.

It most certainly was awful. But that's not really the point considering the bigger picture.

At that point in time Apple had zero experience or expertise into what are known as cellular interface standards; ie AMPS (analog), EDGE, GSM, IS-95, CDMA, UMTS, etc. That body of expert knowledge was held by the cellular network and handset developers; Motorola, Ericsson, Nokia (the giants, collectively known as MEN in the industry), Lucent, Alcatel, NEC, Kyocera, Siemens, and a few others. Meeting those standards was often a case of creatively interpreting the air interface specifications developed by the various cellular telecom standards bodies.

If a handset didn't meet those specifications/standards, it could not be sold and used on cellular networks.

Apple learned a lot in that area working with Motorola developing the ROKR. So much, through close collaboration and assisting with Moto engineers, Apple quickly got up to speed allowing them to develop the first iPhone on their own. IMO, without that early involvement and learning experience with Moto, the iPhone would not have been released when it was. Looking back, collaborating with Moto on the ROKR was a brilliant and very strategic move by Jobs.

 

[McScooby]

Of course it doesn’t, it’s the U2, & this time they can keep their album!🤣

 

[wigby]

Isn't that sentence contradicting in itself? Or you mean its potential is in the far future?

U1 / UWB fixes something that bluetooth and WiFi failed, or may be an accurate way to put it would be not designed in mind in the first place. UWB allows Super low Latency / Accurate location down to 5-10cm. Indoor Mapping ( Apple has intense interest in it ), both are exciting for Retail, part of CarKey, HomeKit, Apple Payment usage. These are all previously tested usage with ibeacon.

Of course these are potential, just like 3D Touch is a great idea on paper, but didn't turn out well for most people. UWB might be the same, we will have to test it out with some real world usage data.

Apple having "intense interest" in something doesn't and shouldn't mean anything to consumers, only investors and industry partners. Buying electronic products (especially high priced Apple products) for their potential or future features is a fool's errand.
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It most certainly was awful. But that's not really the point considering the bigger picture.

At that point in time Apple had zero experience or expertise into what are known as cellular interface standards; ie AMPS (analog), EDGE, GSM, IS-95, CDMA, UMTS, etc. That body of expert knowledge was held by the cellular network and handset developers; Motorola, Ericsson, Nokia (the giants, collectively known as MEN in the industry), Lucent, Alcatel, NEC, Kyocera, Siemens, and a few others. Meeting those standards was often a case of creatively interpreting the air interface specifications developed by the various cellular telecom standards bodies.

If a handset didn't meet those specifications/standards, it could not be sold and used on cellular networks.

Apple learned a lot in that area working with Motorola developing the ROKR. So much, through close collaboration and assisting with Moto engineers, Apple quickly got up to speed allowing them to develop the first iPhone on their own. IMO, without that early involvement and learning experience with Moto, the iPhone would not have been released when it was. Looking back, collaborating with Moto on the ROKR was a brilliant and very strategic move by Jobs.

I agree but more importantly, Apple learned what they didn't like about phones and the cellular industry. Had the ROKR been a success, the iPhone would have been completely different, mostly in bad ways.
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Why do you need it to run at +3GHz? It's already faster rendering edited videos faster than the MBP 2018 (at least this A12X/Z chip) and I doubt there's something heavier than that you can do with the iPad.

In the future ARM Macs for sure we will need those high clockspeeds, but in in something like an iPad which is thermally (passive dissipation) limited there's no need. Also when you increase the frequency the power consumption and heat won't scale linearly but by square numbers. About the 16GB RAM... Unless your job is keeping as much tabs as possible open in your browser, it makes no sense

Video editors have been waiting for Final Cut Pro X on iPad for 5 years now. It currently chokes on 4K video which is one reason Apple has not ported it over to iPad yet. If Apple really wants to prove iPads are not just consumption devices, they must bring pro apps over the the iPad platform.

 

[shyam09]

One of the most underwhelming updates for sure.

makes me wonder whether there will be another pro this year or not.

 

[name99]

So, does anyone actually care about that U1 chip? Serious question.

Remember that HW and SW run on multiple separate tracks, and every group is doing its best to sync with the others but that's not always practical. Something like the U1 can land up in the phone a year before the ecosystem to make use of it (general SW, maybe some AR features, AirTags, maybe specs for 3rd party use, ...) are available.

This happens all the time, you just don't realize it. There was h.265 decode hardware in iPhones for two years (and encode hardware for one year) before Apple flipped the switch and moved the ecosystem to h.265. There's that AMX matrix math hardware in the A13 that's (presumably) going to be explained at WWDC this year, and hooked up into the compiler and libraries, but that's also been sitting unused for almost a year.

 

[cbusbuck]

Does it at least have a stronger chassis?

 

[gnomeisland]

Well, the U1 chip is almost useless right now, but the lack of it is somewhat disappointing in a 2020 iPad Pro.

At least partly because a lack of devices that have the chip. What a strange omission. Seems more useful than lidar in short/medium term. What a strange release.

 

[EugW]

Remember that HW and SW run on multiple separate tracks, and every group is doing its best to sync with the others but that's not always practical. Something like the U1 can land up in the phone a year before the ecosystem to make use of it (general SW, maybe some AR features, AirTags, maybe specs for 3rd party use, ...) are available.

This happens all the time, you just don't realize it. There was h.265 decode hardware in iPhones for two years (and encode hardware for one year) before Apple flipped the switch and moved the ecosystem to h.265. There's that AMX matrix math hardware in the A13 that's (presumably) going to be explained at WWDC this year, and hooked up into the compiler and libraries, but that's also been sitting unused for almost a year.

Actually, h.265 hardware encoding/decoding was already implemented in the iPhone 6 (A8) way back in 2014 for FaceTime, but then something happened and they stopped mentioning it completely until years later. I suspect the issue was the licencing, not software implementation.

And then when they actually flipped the switch - the second time - they left out the iPhone 6. The difference though was that the first implementation of h.265 hardware encoding/decoding was not 4K. Perhaps it was because the iPhone 6's h.265 implementation was incapable of 4K, but it's also probably because by the time they flipped the switch that second time, A8 was already quite old. Or perhaps it was that licencing issue I mentioned.

EDIT:

Here we go:

Apple's iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus use H.265 codec for FaceTime over cellular | AppleInsider

While Apple's new iPhone 6 and 6 Plus have drawn attention for their new form factors and flashy Retina HD displays, the handsets boast substantial under-the-hood advancements, including support for the highly efficient H.265 video codec.

appleinsider.com

As seen on Apple's iPhone tech specs webpage, both the iPhone 6 and its larger iPhone 6 Plus sibling leverage next-generation H.265 technology, also known as High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC), for encoding and decoding FaceTime video calls over cellular. The phones also support the older H.264 standard first championed by Apple with legacy devices like the Apple TV and third-generation iPad.