The-Real-Deal82
macrumors P6
Mercedes have finally broken their silence on Abu Dhabi.
2021 Formula 1 Season Thread
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pachyderm
macrumors G4
Mercedes have finally broken their silence on Abu Dhabi.
pfft.
Drama much?
Do they realize that watching one team dominate for God knows how many years has made many of us, the fans, lose faith in F1?
I've yet to see a single admittance the FIA AND the stewards got it wrong or it was illegal what they did. The stewards are independent and did not see anything was illegal in the result as they did not overturn the result.
Therefore IMO Masi did not breach the rules.
All I've seen are upset Mercedes and Lewis fans complaining. And Lewis has told Toto not to go to court.
Nothing is tainted over Max's win and compared to other wins at least he won by crossing the finish line first.
To me that's reads as 'we lost so we are manipulating the FIA to change the rules so we don't lose again'...Mercedes have finally broken their silence on Abu Dhabi.
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They still haven't been interviewed by the media and apparently are thinking of boycotting the presentations today, despite winning the constructors championship. I think if they do that the FIA should give the trophy AND money to Red Bull.
If Mercedes pull out then no one will care, they will just be acting like spoilt brats. Audi and VW and Porsche are all interested in F1, and Mercedes are feeling threatened from what I've heard as engine suppliers to other teams because of that interest.
Mercedes pushed for the hybrid era as they had such an advantage in development with its engines over anyone else, now other big manufactures are interested in the sport I hope they are challenged even more by other teams. And next years rule changes make for more overtaking.
I am praying what is said is true and George is not going to be moving to be a number 2 driver but he firmly has his sights set in winning the championship. The sport desperately needs a shake up like this year provided.
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The-Real-Deal82
macrumors P6
At this point in time there has been no explanation from the FIA over why all lapped cars were not released and why the race was restarted one lap early and before those 5 lapped cars had reached the back of the pack. The quoted rule in the sporting code says this:
The SC came in on the lap the 5 lapped cars began to rejoin and not on the following lap as the rules instruct.
You say no rules were breached so would you be able to explain here what rule(s) were followed in what was something that had never been seen in F1 prior? Please provide citation for the part of the sporting code that backs up your claims please.
laptech
macrumors 601
How can you say there was not breach of the rules? When the safety car is used the standing rule has always been that cars are not allowed to pass the safety car, they must bunch up behind it but at Abu Dhabi, due to a crash on the very last stages of the race, the safety car was rolled out and due to the timing of the crash and the use of the safety car, it would have meant the race ending whilst the safety car was out, making Lewis Hamiliton the winner, as per standing FIA rules BUT what we found was that the race director changed the rules in allowing the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen to pass the safety car giving Verstappen a clear run at Hamilton. When the other cars had passed the safety car, knowing there was now a clear path between Hamilton and Verstappen, the race director gave the green light, safety car came back in an Verstappen had a now clear run at Hamilton. Having pitted and got fresh tyres, there is no way Verstappen was going to lose because he had no back markers to contend with that would have slowed his progress in catching Hamilton.
As Mercedes correctly pointed out when quoting sections of the FIA rule book, if the race director changes the rules where an incident brings out the safety car, ALL lapped cars are allowed to pass the safety car to unlap themselves. This did not happen because the race director only allowed the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen to pass the safety car, no one else and when they had passed he then gave the green light to continue the race.
Everyone in F1 except Red Bull and their fans/supporters know the rules were manipulated to get the outcome the FIA wanted, a cliffhanger ending to the race, the top two battling out for the championship rather than what should have occured under FIA rules which would have been the race ending under the safety car which would have been a dull spectical and ending to the race, something the FIA was not about to let happen.
The-Real-Deal82
macrumors P6
What rules are they asking to be changed? It sounds more like you want the rules to be manipulated because you are fed up of a driver being successful. Please explain how the rules were not breached and why rules you think Mercedes are trying to get changed. Second time of asking.
laptech
macrumors 601
You know what the annoying thing is, in their second appeal, Mercedes quoted that rule in the appeal and the appeal was still rejected. So yes, I for one agree with you on this, the FIA need to explain why they only allowed the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen to pass the safety car and no one else, which is clearly against the rules.At this point in time there has been no explanation from the FIA over why all lapped cars were not released and why the race was restarted one lap early and before those 5 lapped cars had reached the back of the pack. The quoted rule in the sporting code says this:
The SC came in on the lap the 5 lapped cars began to rejoin and not on the following lap as the rules instruct.
You say no rules were breached so would you be able to explain here what rule(s) were followed in what was something that had never been seen in F1 prior? Please provide citation for the part of the sporting code that backs up your claims please.
The-Real-Deal82
macrumors P6
There are plenty of other forms of motorsports out there that aren’t heavily reliant on a form of engineering race and are more equalised in terms of machinery.
laptech
macrumors 601
I do wish Mercedes would have carried on with their appeal because what the race director did was wrong. One of the national papers reported that a similar situation occured at the German grand prix (i think it was the german GP) where the safety car was rolled out and ALL the lapped cars were allowed to pass the safety car as per rule 48.12 nd when the last car pasted the safety car, the safety car went back to the pits. There is no rule which allowed the race director to do what he did at Abu Dhabi but the FIA is being allowed to get away with it because Mercedes do not want to continue getting bad press over the issue.
The race director broke FIA rules to allow for an exciting end to the Adu Dhabi GP. the FIA knew if they stuck to the rules, there was not enough laps left to allow all the lapped cars to pass the safety car and thus unlap themselves which would have meant a Hamilton win. The ironic thing is, at the start of the season, many F1 critics called it in that they said the FIA would not allow Hamilton to break Michael Schumachers record of F1 titles and they were right because there are talks of Hamilton retiring.
the FIA get what they want which is, Michael Schumachers record intact, a different championship winner and keeping non Mercedes fan's happy by having a different driver driving for a different team winning the drivers chanpionship.
The race director broke FIA rules to allow for an exciting end to the Adu Dhabi GP. the FIA knew if they stuck to the rules, there was not enough laps left to allow all the lapped cars to pass the safety car and thus unlap themselves which would have meant a Hamilton win. The ironic thing is, at the start of the season, many F1 critics called it in that they said the FIA would not allow Hamilton to break Michael Schumachers record of F1 titles and they were right because there are talks of Hamilton retiring.
the FIA get what they want which is, Michael Schumachers record intact, a different championship winner and keeping non Mercedes fan's happy by having a different driver driving for a different team winning the drivers chanpionship.
At this point in time there has been no explanation from the FIA over why all lapped cars were not released and why the race was restarted one lap early and before those 5 lapped cars had reached the back of the pack. The quoted rule in the sporting code says this:
The SC came in on the lap the 5 lapped cars began to rejoin and not on the following lap as the rules instruct.
You say no rules were breached so would you be able to explain here what rule(s) were followed in what was something that had never been seen in F1 prior? Please provide citation for the part of the sporting code that backs up your claims please.
The clause that states the Race Director has control over what the safety car does, hence he did not breach the rules. He had complete discretion when to bring the car in.
Clear explanation here of what they did:
Why did the stewards reject Mercedes' protest?
The stewards also threw out the second, and meatier, protest lodged by Mercedes in the hours after the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.
racingnews365.com
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No rules have been manipulated? You are just upset because Lewis lost, I bet if Lewis was where Max was and won under those exact same conditions you'd be defending Lewis to the hilt and Masi.
That Mercedes statement is them playing politics as usual. I have no doubt they'll be trying to influence that commission, I hope other teams stay independent and are not influenced by the fact they have Mercedes engines. You also only need to ask the same question once not multiple times.
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ericwn
macrumors G5
This was the third time in the last two decades that one team dominated strongly. It’s certainly not a major concern for the FIA.
Apple fanboy
macrumors Ivy Bridge
You could not be more wrong. Changing the rules during a race is wrong, even if it let Lewis win instead of Max. Everyone I have spoken to can see this. You seem to have a different viewpoint to most. You don’t want to see Lewis win every year. I get that. But he did nothing wrong (neither did RBR or Max btw) in the last race. However the race director did. Everyone can see that which is why they are saying they will review it. Not to overturn the results, but to make sure when the lights go out everyone knows the rules they are racing under. Not make them up as you go along.
laptech
macrumors 601
If you look at Mercedes protest
You will see that Red Bulls defence depended entirly on the ambiguity of the wording used in the rules and they won because of how badly written the rules are. You can also see the race director saying that there has been a long standing agreement with the teams that a race finishes on 'green condition' (not under the safety car). You can clearly see by the race directors comments that his intention was to have the race finish under 'green conditions' because he removes the obstacles in the way so that condition can happen, notice the words he uses? and i quote
He then uses 48.13 which gives him “overriding authority” over how the safety car is used to remove the safety car after the 'interference' has been removed.
This interference and manipulating of the rules by the race director set up the perfect conditions for Verstappen to win. Verstappen pitted and came out on fresh tyres, the back markers between Hamilton and Verstappen are removed (interferance the race director calls it) giving Verstappen a clear unobstructed run to Hamilton. With Verstappen on fresh tyres and with the back markers removed, the race director would have known there is no way Hamilton would have been able to defend his lead.
It was the last race of the season, a race that would determine who would win the drivers championship between Hamilton and Verstappen. There is no way FIA sponsors and F1 television rights holders would allow such an important season ending race end under safety car conditions which would have meant the race director would have been under imense pressure to make sure the race ended under 'green conditions' and that is exactly what they got.
laptech
macrumors 601
Basically the race director had two choices, A) stick to the rules and have the race finish under safety car conditions which would result in a race win for Hamilton and thereby handing him the drivers championship or B) manipulate the rules to make sure the race ends under 'green conditions' thereby unknowingly or knowingly (take your pick) giving Verstappen a huge advantage to win the race.
I looked at the link I provided that looks at the rules as stated and how they were applied and the fact the stewards, who are independent of the FIA and Masi, rejected both of Mercedes' protests. They accepted what was done was within the rules as written. Key word as RB pointed out was 'any' NOT 'all'.
racingnews365.com
The rules may not be fair, but the stewards upheld the result because of the rules as written.
All a review will do is tidy up the wording.
Why did the stewards reject Mercedes' protest?
The stewards also threw out the second, and meatier, protest lodged by Mercedes in the hours after the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.
racingnews365.com
The rules may not be fair, but the stewards upheld the result because of the rules as written.
All a review will do is tidy up the wording.
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laptech
macrumors 601
And here is the million dollar answer as to why Red Bull won the appealsI looked at the link I provided that looks at the rules as stated and how they were applied and the fact the stewards, who are independent of the FIA and Masi, rejected both of Mercedes' protests. They accepted what was done was within the rules as written. Key word as RB pointed out was 'any' NOT 'all'.
Why did the stewards reject Mercedes' protest?
The stewards also threw out the second, and meatier, protest lodged by Mercedes in the hours after the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.
The rules may not be fair, but the stewards upheld the result because of the rules as written.
All a review will do is tidy up the wording.
Just goes to show Red Bull did not win fair and square but won due to a wording technicality.
Apple fanboy
macrumors Ivy Bridge
Or red flag. Best choice in the circumstances. Everyone starts on fresh rubber. Sprint finish.
CWallace
macrumors G5
If Lewis retires, Abu Dhabi's results won't be the reason.
The-Real-Deal82
macrumors P6
I am pretty sure if Max had been in the receiving end of the rule bending to favour Lewis, you’d be equally as vocal as myself, in fact I know you would. You’ve criticised the FIA for punishing Max for unsporting behaviour in regards to forcing competitors off the race track, but you are fine with the race director overriding a ruling because it has benefitted Max. Ok.
So it seems an agreement was in place not to end races under a safety car so Masi decided to override article 48.12 and restart the race one lap early despite the regulations saying the ‘following lap’. Some maybe fine with this but what is the point in even having a sporting code if a race director can decide separately what rule they want in place? It has undermined the sport and this years championship. I won’t blame Max for it because he is as innocent as Lewis in this and took advantage of the situation that was gifted. It does undermine his championship though and undoes the work both drivers have put in across the season.
I think he would have retired had he won the title anyway as even past his peak, he is still the best driver on the current grid. He would be going out on top with nothing left to prove. It would be a sad end to his F1 career though. He should at least stick around for one more season as I highly doubt Red Bull will be title contenders next season under their new engine program.
The-Real-Deal82
macrumors P6
I am sure it will be part of the reason. We saw a very despondent Hamilton leaving Abu Dhabi and a lot of people are questioning if it’s worth their time with a sport that is influenced by a media company rather than following its own sporting code.
Lewis may well have planned to retire if his clinched his 8th title, but the events on Sunday may have made him realise he has nothing else to prove anyway, he’s already beaten Schumachers records by a significant margin.
CWallace
macrumors G5
I expect Lewis will retire when he no longer enjoys racing. He fought hard to overcome the deficit he had going into Silverstone and one could argue that collision between him and Max is what changed the title trajectory for both drivers as Lewis gained 26 points on Max and narrowed the gap from 35 to 8 points.