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Whilst my opinion may be considered to be absurd, it still falls within the realms of possibility. Well hopefully Lewis will not retire and continue to race and then we will see if my opinion is proven to be wrong won't we.

Their are many different races up and down the grid, Vietnamese, Mexican, Brazilian, Asian. All with different skin colours, to claim the FIA deliberately stopped Hamilton wining (an EIGHTH world championship) due to his particular skin colour, ignoring everyone else, is in itself utterly absurd and biased against those other races in the field.
F1 has ALWAYS celebrated different races of people from around the world. And visited many countries of different race too.
 
I don't think Masi was deliberately trying to manipulate the race in favour of Red Bull or Max, but where 'rules' are open to interpretation they are not really rules, are they? As things played out, the decisions made clearly did favour one team and driver, and ultimately decided the championship.

While it might have looked like a 'race' on track (or at least more than driving behind the safety car) anyone who watches F1 understands how much of an advantage new v old tyres have. It wasn't really a race, and as soon as it restarted there was only going to be one winner.

Given the stakes, it was one of those unique situations where the team with nothing to lose had the bigger advantage of being able to throw the dice with strategy easier than the team in front. I still think Mercedes got that strategy wrong and could have pitted Lewis twice and still had the advantage, if not the track position. It's easier to say in hindsight than in the heat of the race though.

A further appeal would have done more damage to the sport than good, as would any decision that changed the result. I do hope the FIA learn from their obvious mistakes and make it much clearer what are rules which must be followed and what guidance is open to the race directors interpretation.

We won't have long to wait for 2022 and some pretty big changes to the cars, so all we can really do is hope for another close season like the one we've just had, hopefully with a cleaner end and a little less controversy.
Knowing what we know now and seeing how it unfolded, many people have said that Lewis should have pitted again to get fresher tyres meaning both him and Verstappen would have been on fresh tyres and thus a slug feist to see who would win but here's the thing, crash happens, safety car comes out, Lewis had already pitted earlier but his tyres were still ok to get him to the finish line. Verstappen pits and get's fresher tyres. Mercedes knows Verstappen is on fresher tyres but he has to deal with back markers which would naturally slow him down as he tries to navigate past them. With the number of back markers between him and Lewis I have no doubt the Mercedes team had calculated that with the amount of laps remaining, Verstappen would not have enough time to get past Lewis. If the existing rules were followed, there would be no reason for Mercedes to react differently under those conditions. But what do we see instead, we see something that has never happened before, the race director lets all the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen to pass the safety car. This leaves a clear open space between Hamilton and Verstappen and what with Verstappen on fresh tyres. As soon as there is clear air between Hamilton and Verstappen, the safety car is told to pit and the green light is given and the very predictable happens, the driver with the new tyres catches and overtakes the driver with the not so new tyres.

if Mercedes had any clue that the race director would change the rules, they would have pitted Lewis to put new tyres on the car but why would they? they knew under the existing rules that Verstappen even when on new tyres would not have been able to navigate past the back markers to be able to then challenge Hamilton. Some of the tabloid press talked to the drivers that had been allowed to pass the safety car and even they said they was confused as to what was happening and asking their race team what is going on and their team telling the drivers to drive past the safety cars. Even ex-F1 drivers have been spoken too and even they said what happened was confusing and with all this going on the ONLY team and ONLY drivers who said everything that went on was OK was Red Bull and their drivers. Not a single driver or team has agreed with Red Bull's version of events.
 
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Their are many different races up and down the grid, Vietnamese, Mexican, Brazilian, Asian. All with different skin colours, to claim the FIA deliberately stopped Hamilton wining (an EIGHTH world championship) due to his particular skin colour, ignoring everyone else, is in itself utterly absurd and biased against those other races in the field.
F1 has ALWAYS celebrated different races of people from around the world. And visited many countries of different race too.
if you believe in all of that then why don't you go and tell Lewis Hamilton to his face that his is a bare faced liar then because it is him who has been saying that racisim exists in the sport and that he has peronally been on the recieving end of racisim within the sport. There are two reasons why people in his sport do not like him, 1) his attitude and 2) the colour of his skin. Now, if you think racisim does not exist then go tell that to Lewis and see the response you get.
 
I don't see it like that at all I have to say.

But I'm moving on now, I think Mercedes are behaving like children boycotting everything, interviews and contractual agreements to attend the events.
You may have seen support for them I've seen criticism of them. If they aren't going to pursue the matter further then they need to move on from it.

Mercedes have withdrawn their appeal so are moving on from it. The analysis is being done in the interests of every team in the sport to have clarity going forward. Mercedes’ may have lost out to half rule being applied this year but it could be any other team next or the year after. It is within the best interests of the sport to clarify whether the rule book is absolute, or whether race officials can apply personal interpretations to it like Masi did on Sunday.

Mercedes not turning up to the event and Lewis not picking up his Personality of the year award may seem petty to you, but they have to do what feels right and I doubt celebrating is their focus just a few days after the end of the season. It’s all glass houses anyway, as I am sure you’re aware Red Bull sulk when they don’t get their own way too. It would be hypocritical for anybody to judge unless they are totally impartial I think.
 
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Mercedes have withdrawn their appeal so are moving on from it. The analysis is being done in the interests of every team in the sport to have clarity going forward. Mercedes’ may have lost out to half rule being applied this year but it could be any other team next or the year after. It is within the best interests of the sport to clarify whether the rule book is absolute, or whether race officials can apply personal interpretations to it like Masi did on Sunday.

Mercedes not turning up to the event and Lewis not picking up his Personality of the year award may seem petty to you, but they have to do what feels right and I doubt celebrating is their focus just a few days after the end of the season. It’s all glass houses anyway, as I am sure you’re aware Red Bull sulk when they don’t get their own way too. It would be hypocritical for anybody to judge unless they are totally impartial I think.
What many do not understand is that if Mercedes turned up to the event it would have percieved as acceptance to what happened to them. The sporting media would have been all over it writing their own opinions about why the team showed up, with those opinions having the potential to influence readers and altering their own views and opinions about the whole issue. This would then force Mercedes to release press statements to counter the statements writen by the sporting media. Then the sporting media would repsond and then we get into this cat and mouse game of one having to defend/contrdict the other.

I am with you on the second paragraph. Mercedes feel they were cheated out of winning the drivers championship and thus feelings were still very raw and in my opinion it would have been inappropriate for them to turn up as though they was ok with everything. They are not, they are angry and rightly so. Their actions are not petty as some like to refer to it, they were just.
 
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Mercedes have withdrawn their appeal so are moving on from it. The analysis is being done in the interests of every team in the sport to have clarity going forward. Mercedes’ may have lost out to half rule being applied this year but it could be any other team next or the year after. It is within the best interests of the sport to clarify whether the rule book is absolute, or whether race officials can apply personal interpretations to it like Masi did on Sunday.

Mercedes not turning up to the event and Lewis not picking up his Personality of the year award may seem petty to you, but they have to do what feels right and I doubt celebrating is their focus just a few days after the end of the season. It’s all glass houses anyway, as I am sure you’re aware Red Bull sulk when they don’t get their own way too. It would be hypocritical for anybody to judge unless they are totally impartial I think.

You would have to also concur then that the personal interpretation of the rule was also applied by the stewards and the FIA as they all backed Masi. You can't claim one person made an interpretation when others then back that interpretation up.
I'm sure the rules will be clarified and made clearer, the wording needs to be amended for sure.

And sure they all sulk, but I've never known any team to flat out refuse any media interviews, for nearly a week now. I think their sulking is getting tiresome.
 
if you believe in all of that then why don't you go and tell Lewis Hamilton to his face that his is a bare faced liar then because it is him who has been saying that racisim exists in the sport and that he has peronally been on the recieving end of racisim within the sport. There are two reasons why people in his sport do not like him, 1) his attitude and 2) the colour of his skin. Now, if you think racisim does not exist then go tell that to Lewis and see the response you get.

I'll leave you to your opinion on that then. You are accusing the FIA of selective racism.
 
I'll leave you to your opinion on that then. You are accusing the FIA of selective racism.
People of colour and other ethnic minorites have faced and still face racisim and it has resulted in them losing their jobs, being prevented from getting jobs, ignored for pay rises and/or promotions, have been ignored for awards (music and movies). Are you saying it's not possible to happen in F1?
 
People of colour and other ethnic minorites have faced and still face racisim and it has resulted in them losing their jobs, being prevented from getting jobs, ignored for pay rises and/or promotions, have been ignored for awards (music and movies). Are you saying it's not possible to happen in F1?
Of course it's possible and I have no doubt the Lewis has faced it himself in F1 despite being its biggest celebrity.

That said, your conspiracy theory regarding the race finish is absurd. The reality is that there was an enormous amount of pressure to make the perfect decision in real time where a delay of just a few seconds radically changed the available options. The sport really, really did not want the final race of this championship season to end under yellow. That was certainly the driving force behind the decisions made. Red Bull had to take chances because they were relying on a miracle. Mercedes had to play the conservative card, retaining track position, and expecting the rules to be applied consistent to previous precedent.

Anyone who has watched F1 closely for any recent amount of time has seen a large number of calls go Mercedes and Hamilton's way. Yes, including calls earlier in this very race. When even Brundle and Croft are calling for Hamilton to give the place back, you know that was a gift to Mercedes. Nor did the FIA ever, to my knowledge, convincingly demonstrate that Hamilton gave the advantage back. Etc. etc.
 
......

Anyone who has watched F1 closely for any recent amount of time has seen a large number of calls go Mercedes and Hamilton's way. Yes, including calls earlier in this very race. When even Brundle and Croft are calling for Hamilton to give the place back, you know that was a gift to Mercedes. Nor did the FIA ever, to my knowledge, convincingly demonstrate that Hamilton gave the advantage back. Etc. etc.
Oh please, for goodness sake stop with this complaining of Hamilton not being penalised for the incident at turn 7. They both charged for the corner, Verstappen pushed in which forced Hamilton to go wide which gave him a bit of an advantage coming out of the turn. Should Hamilton have given up the advantage, Yes, should Verstappen have forced Hamilton off the road at that corner, No. The stewards could not penalise Hamilton unless they penalised Verstappen for causing the incident. Both were at fault, both faults cancelled each other out, stewards gave no penalty but of course, everyone only see's what Hamilton did and not what Verstappen did which caused the incident.
 
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Oh please, for goodness sake stop with this complaining of Hamilton not being penalised for the incident at turn 7. They both charged for the corner, Verstappen pushed in which forced Hamilton to go wide which gave him a bit of an advantage coming out of the turn. Should Hamilton have given up the advantage, Yes, should Verstappen have forced Hamilton off the road at that corner, No. The stewards could not penalise Hamilton unless they penalised Verstappen for causing the incident. Both were at fault, both faults cancelled each other out, stewards gave no penalty but of course, everyone only see's what Hamilton did and not what Verstappen did which caused the incident.
In your outrage knee-jerk reaction, you managed to miss both points I made. 1) That the Sky commentators who are incredibly pro-Hamilton both thought it was a legitimate pass and 2) that it was never demonstrated that he actually gave back the advantage he gained in leaving the track (different than giving back the place).
 
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In your outrage knee-jerk reaction, you managed to miss both points I made. 1) That the Sky commentators who are incredibly pro-Hamilton both thought it was a legitimate pass and 2) that it was never demonstrated that he actually gave back the advantage he gained in leaving the track (different than giving back the place).'outrage
'outrage knee-jerk reaction' is your words. Nothing of the sort took place in my post. As for the rest, all you are trying to doing use that incident as justification for Lewis losing the race by saying 'well, he never got penalised for that incident so it's only right that the rules go against him towards the end'. How pathetic. As for the commentators, they are not pro Lewis, yes they consider him to be one of the worlds best F1 drivers but being pro Lewis commentating during a race, nope.
 
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You would have to also concur then that the personal interpretation of the rule was also applied by the stewards and the FIA as they all backed Masi. You can't claim one person made an interpretation when others then back that interpretation up.
I'm sure the rules will be clarified and made clearer, the wording needs to be amended for sure.

And sure they all sulk, but I've never known any team to flat out refuse any media interviews, for nearly a week now. I think their sulking is getting tiresome.
I think if the FIA did not back Masi’s decision, there is only one outcome and that is to sack him. They’ve stood by him and have pledged to investigate the circumstances surrounding the decision. It may still be admitted that the rules were not correctly followed, but amendments will be made to the sporting code to prevent future confusion. The FIA have not clarified that Masi was correct, they simply quashed the appeals because as it stands there is some room for interpretation. Nobody expects results to be overturned, but there is already enough to suggest that the FIA are themselves admitting some responsibility.

What do you want Mercedes’ to say in the interviews that they are not doing though? I am not aware there is any rules that say they have to give interviews or attend awards gala’s despite tabloids suggesting Lewis could be fined for disappearing from the public eye during the off season. I doubt Max had any less of an evening with Mercedes’ in attendance. Some may find it tiresome we are hearing about the championship victory 5 days on lol, and tell them to give it a rest. I am joking of course.

Anyone who has watched F1 closely for any recent amount of time has seen a large number of calls go Mercedes and Hamilton's way. Yes, including calls earlier in this very race. When even Brundle and Croft are calling for Hamilton to give the place back, you know that was a gift to Mercedes. Nor did the FIA ever, to my knowledge, convincingly demonstrate that Hamilton gave the advantage back. Etc. etc.
I would hardly call Croft and Brundle experts on F1 though. They’ve got as valid an opinion as any of us that follow the sport. I dislike both of them personally and don’t watch the Sky coverage thankfully to hear their points of view.
 
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I think if the FIA did not back Masi’s decision, there is only one outcome and that is to sack him. They’ve stood by him and have pledged to investigate the circumstances surrounding the decision. It may still be admitted that the rules were not correctly followed, but amendments will be made to the sporting code to prevent future confusion. The FIA have not clarified that Masi was correct, they simply quashed the appeals because as it stands there is some room for interpretation. Nobody expects results to be overturned, but there is already enough to suggest that the FIA are themselves admitting some responsibility.
The FIA couldn't sack him for the simple reason it would have lead to Hamilton winning the race and thus the drivers championship. Sacking someone means or implies that the person has done something so egregious it warranted them getting the sack. This therefore means that the decisions the person made which resulted in their sacking could be challenged. Now, if the FIA had sacked Masi, it implies his decision making was wrong which means the validity of his decsions could be challenged. Mercedes lost their appeals because the FIA said Masi was right in what he did. Sacking him would mean he was wrong in what he did and thus Mercedes appeals would have stood resulting in a overturned result leaving Hamilton the winner of the race. ergo, FIA could not sack Masi, even if they wanted to.
 
I think if the FIA did not back Masi’s decision, there is only one outcome and that is to sack him. They’ve stood by him and have pledged to investigate the circumstances surrounding the decision. It may still be admitted that the rules were not correctly followed, but amendments will be made to the sporting code to prevent future confusion. The FIA have not clarified that Masi was correct, they simply quashed the appeals because as it stands there is some room for interpretation. Nobody expects results to be overturned, but there is already enough to suggest that the FIA are themselves admitting some responsibility.

And while we all focus on Abu Dhabi, we should not forget there was a significant amount of controversy over the decision to run two laps under the SC at Spa in order to declare it an Official Race and award half points to the top 10 qualifiers. There was no chance of that race actually being run at speed so it effectively was a gift of WDC and CC points to those drivers and teams.

And then there was the negotiations between Masi and Horner at Saudi Arabia during the Red Flag to allow Max to move from 1st to 3rd to prevent the matter from being referred to the stewards which might have caused a time penalty that would have cost Max more positions - or could have resulted in a "no further action" that would have kept Max in front and where he could have possibly won instead of Lewis.

So FIA race officials have made at least three questionable decisions this year and probably has played a role in their decision to review and revise the Sporting Code and how it is enforced during a Grand Prix Weekend.
 
And while we all focus on Abu Dhabi, we should not forget there was a significant amount of controversy over the decision to run two laps under the SC at Spa in order to declare it an Official Race and award half points to the top 10 qualifiers. There was no chance of that race actually being run at speed so it effectively was a gift of WDC and CC points to those drivers and teams.

And then there was the negotiations between Masi and Horner at Saudi Arabia during the Red Flag to allow Max to move from 1st to 3rd to prevent the matter from being referred to the stewards which might have caused a time penalty that would have cost Max more positions - or could have resulted in a "no further action" that would have kept Max in front and where he could have possibly won instead of Lewis.

So FIA race officials have made at least three questionable decisions this year and probably has played a role in their decision to review and revise the Sporting Code and how it is enforced during a Grand Prix Weekend.

It's been said that the penalties are often discussed like that under the red flag, we just never hear the radio chatter on it, so don't read too much into that as it doesn't seem to be an exclusive incident.
 
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I think if the FIA did not back Masi’s decision, there is only one outcome and that is to sack him. They’ve stood by him and have pledged to investigate the circumstances surrounding the decision. It may still be admitted that the rules were not correctly followed, but amendments will be made to the sporting code to prevent future confusion. The FIA have not clarified that Masi was correct, they simply quashed the appeals because as it stands there is some room for interpretation. Nobody expects results to be overturned, but there is already enough to suggest that the FIA are themselves admitting some responsibility.

What do you want Mercedes’ to say in the interviews that they are not doing though? I am not aware there is any rules that say they have to give interviews or attend awards gala’s despite tabloids suggesting Lewis could be fined for disappearing from the public eye during the off season. I doubt Max had any less of an evening with Mercedes’ in attendance. Some may find it tiresome we are hearing about the championship victory 5 days on lol, and tell them to give it a rest. I am joking of course.


I would hardly call Croft and Brundle experts on F1 though. They’ve got as valid an opinion as any of us that follow the sport. I dislike both of them personally and don’t watch the Sky coverage thankfully to hear their points of view.

Not going to repeat myself as we are both just saying the same things and I don't think our opinions will change on the last race but I respect your opinion.
It's actually in the regulations the top 3 drivers and the teams who won the championship and constructors attend the awards ceremony or they face fines.
At a guess I'd imagine the rule exists due to media contractual obligations they may hold.

I think we could see another RB and Mercedes battle next year as I heard Honda are still going to help RB develop and manufacture their engine. So hopefully they are still competitive. Will be interesting to see how they cope with a flat chassis though as I believe all 2022 cars are now flat?
But I also think George will be thrown into the mix too.. he isn't going to Merc to be number 2 by any means.
So rules depending we could have another great battle. So long as the cars are reliable anyway and work as hoped.
 
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And while we all focus on Abu Dhabi, we should not forget there was a significant amount of controversy over the decision to run two laps under the SC at Spa in order to declare it an Official Race and award half points to the top 10 qualifiers. There was no chance of that race actually being run at speed so it effectively was a gift of WDC and CC points to those drivers and teams.

And then there was the negotiations between Masi and Horner at Saudi Arabia during the Red Flag to allow Max to move from 1st to 3rd to prevent the matter from being referred to the stewards which might have caused a time penalty that would have cost Max more positions - or could have resulted in a "no further action" that would have kept Max in front and where he could have possibly won instead of Lewis.

So FIA race officials have made at least three questionable decisions this year and probably has played a role in their decision to review and revise the Sporting Code and how it is enforced during a Grand Prix Weekend.
Your post is very very interesting. You specifically bring up points that allegedly had a negative impact on Verstappen but which favoured Hamilton but fail to mention that verstappen was the one who benifited from the decison making at Spa. Why is that? Why are you trying to show Verstappen as the victim and Hamilton as the victor when you know he benifited from the decision making at Spa and Hamilton didn't? biased much are we?
 
Your post is very very interesting. You specifically bring up points that allegedly had a negative impact on Verstappen but which favoured Hamilton but fail to mention that verstappen was the one who benifited from the decison making at Spa. Why is that? Why are you trying to show Verstappen as the victim and Hamilton as the victor when you know he benifited from the decision making at Spa and Hamilton didn't? biased much are we?

I was just commenting that Abu Dhabi was not the first FIA decision that caused controversy this season.

As for Spa, I mentioned that it was a gift to the top 10 qualifiers because they all received half points for their qualifying, not their racing. So yes Max benefitted, but so did Lewis. And Russel. And Ricciardo. And Vettel. And Gasley. And...

And your posting history in this thread makes it clear where the bias lies and with whom. ;)
 
Hamilton was the driver forced off the racetrack, that’s why. It’s the driver who does the pushing who usually gets punished and it was the third time this season Max had done this. The FIA are cracking down on this behaviour next season apparently, but then the race director can probably make something up depending on who is involved.
Is that why they asked Hamilton to give the time advantage back?
 
Whilst my opinion may be considered to be absurd, it still falls within the realms of possibility. Well hopefully Lewis will not retire and continue to race and then we will see if my opinion is proven to be wrong won't we.
Of course he won’t retire – there is a reason why he’s a 7-time WDC, he’s got a good, mature head on his shoulders (now little Toto on the other hand…Hamilton reportedly talked him out of protest). Hamilton is far wiser and more mature. And the race/championship outcome has absolutely zero to do with him being of colour.
 
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I would hardly call Croft and Brundle experts on F1 though. They’ve got as valid an opinion as any of us that follow the sport. I dislike both of them personally and don’t watch the Sky coverage thankfully to hear their points of view.
Brundle ”not an expert” and as valid an opinion as yours? Sorry, how many years did you drive in F1, follow the circus around the world, spend time interviewing people and so on? Really?!
 
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Is that why they asked Hamilton to give the time advantage back?
They asked him to give ‘some’ of the time back from going across the chicane. Not because he cut it to begin with as he had no choice after being pushed onto the run off area. This explanation was obvious during the race and afterwards.
Brundle ”not an expert” and as valid an opinion as yours? Sorry, how many years did you drive in F1, follow the circus around the world, spend time interviewing people and so on? Really?!
Really. They commentate and give their opinions on a sport they also follow. You don’t have to agree with me but I can’t stand Brundle and don’t rate his opinion as any more important than anybody else, thanks.
 
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