The trouble is that usb-a is built into cars, hotel rooms, and lots of existing electrical outlets. For the majority of use cases usb-c adds nothing but cost. Therefore, most accessories use usb-a, and most people use usb-a flash drives. Yes, it's possible to go for usb-c only if you aren't in a business setting and you don't often share files by flash drive, but it takes effort.
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2021 MacBook Pro Rumored to Feature More Ports: Here's a Look at What Previous Models Offered
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USB-A is mostly for accessories like mice, keyboards and such. I agree it's bulky and because of that it won't be included.
HDMI however is a rather slim port, that or add a miniDisplay Port. MagSafe can be reengineered to MagSafe v3 just like v1 gave way to a slimmer v2.
What if they included a common port that could provide either HDM or DisplayPort signal over a passive cable?
It's still dongle hell. The reason for multiple ports is to prevent dongle hell.
If you want to argue for a MiniDP port rather than HDMI, that's a whole different discussion. MiniDP is more versatile, but for most people, the point of HDMI is to connect to a TV, data projector or cheap HD or 4K display, which are most likely to use HDMI. Meanwhile, you can plug the USB-C device into the Thunderbolt 3 port that you didn't just fill up with a DisplayPort dongle...
The point is not having to waste a high-speed I/O port to drive a display, which consumes totally different resources.
...and if the $2500 16" MacBook Pro has the same M! SoC as the $999 MacBook Air and $699 Mini (which only supports 2 displays, full stop). Apple will be a laughing stock regardless of how many USB-C ports they offer.
Which is irrelevant to the argument unless you're predicting that this means future laptops will have the same restrictions. Go look up "extrapolate" in a dictionary - it means exactly that. Also note that we're talking about laptops here - and Apple haven't released a laptop (or anything else other than a Mac Mini) with HDMI or USB-A since 2015. So it's not even sensible extrapolation.
Meanwhile, you're completely ignoring that the potential new MBPs we're talking about will have new, custom SoCs probably designed specifically for the MacBook Pro that give Apple the chance to work around all sorts of constraints they faced with Intel (...such as Intel's choices of how the fixed number of I/O lines could be configured as permutations of PCIe, USB3, NVME etc.) - if the rumours of "more ports" are true then there may be a reason why it's happening now rather than when they walked-back some of the other 2016 decisions with the 16"MBP.
Except that's a false equivalence: an extra, full spec, TB3 port requires 2-4x as many PCIe lanes (or equivalent) as a couple of USB-A 3.1, twice as many DP 1.4 streams as an extra video port. Or, rather - since Apple Silicon uses on-chip Thunderbolt controllers - a whole additional TB controller using up those resources on the chip.
No, just calling out your nonsensical hyperbole about a processor needing "infinite" I/O just to provide the equivalent of another PCIe lane.
Oh I understand perfectly what you're saying - you want the maximum theoretical possible I/O and screen estate that can be achieved by a perfectly optimised set-up in a perfect world where everything has USB-C, if not TB4 ports and every desk is equipped with hubs, docks and up-to-the-minute USB-C/TB monitors. Problem is, you're arbitrarily dismissing the practical concerns of actual users who have stacks of USB-A peripherals and non-USB-C displays and for whom it is more convenient and productive to be able to plug a USB-A or HDMI device directly into their laptop than carry around extra hubs and dongles. Then you're insisting on the worst-case scenario where that means you'll lose precious TB3 ports - even down to arguing that adding these as extra ports and keeping the existing TB3 facilities is somehow denying you of a 5th TB3 port... It really is the worst-case "works for me" fallacy.
...and bundling up unrelated functions like charging, display, and high-bandwidth I/O - that shouldn't even compete for CPU/GPU resources - into a limited number of expensive-to-implement "universal" ports creates an entirely pointless bottleneck that has to be resolved with docks and dongles.
If we could have 6-8 TB4 ports then it wouldn't be so bad - we'd need adapters or new cables, but not a load of boxy docks and dongles hanging off our laptops... but we can't because TB4 ports are so expensive (both in money and CPU/GPU resources) we're stuck with a tiny number of ports. Half-a-TB4-port's worth or resources would provide all the USB-A/HDMI/Power/etc. that anybody is asking for.
Removing MagSafe was one of the stupidest things Apple did (there’s a lot of other dumb crap they did but that’s for a different rant). About time they realized their mistake in removing it. That’s the one thing I hate about my 2019 MBP.
You know that you can use a cable that has USB-C one end, and HDMI the other end right? So in place of the HDMI to HDMI cable, you use a cable with HDMI one end, and USB-C the other end. Literally no more pieces.
Yes, that would be a Mini DisplayPort (technically MiniDP++) which is what we used to have, and which really does work with passive HDMI/DVI/VGA adapters and cables.
Or perhaps you meant USB-C? Most USB-C to HDMI cables are active DP-to-HDMI converters, sure, USB-C HDMI alt mode exists as a specification, but lots of USB-C/TB-3 hosts don't support it (and good luck finding out whether your host does) so it's no big surprise that few people bother.
Meanwhile, its funny how both the "passive" USB-C to DisplayPort cables I use have such a big bulge at the DisplayPort end that gets quite warm in use... Turns out that USB-C to DP adapters require an embedded Power Delivery controller chip, so calling them "passive cables" is a bit of a stretch.
Yes, yet the amount of ports is limited. So if you want to have a ext. keyboard, external speaker, ext. mouse and other peripherals due to your needs, you'll need a hub. Where as before you didn't need a hub as your Mac has the necessary ports.
I get trying to go wireless, but the fact remains that going full wireless is expensive or cost prohibitive.
Every response you make, makes me question whether you actually use any of the equipment in question.
From what I can tell, your theoretical (or perhaps not theoretical?) situation is that someone needs to use a HDMI projector or TV with their laptop, but also has four other devices that they need to connect via TB3/USB-C, none of those devices is a USB-C or TB3 Hub/Dock with HDMI output, none support daisy-chaining, and even if they did, the laptop and those four devices is the limit, a tiny <checks notes> ~18 gram, $13 adapter or ~100gram, $29 USB-C 7-in-1 hub is the proverbial straw that will break the camels back?
Which is irrelevant to the point. You said I'm "extrapolating" about what some future product might do, but then all the qualities you listed of said future product, exist in a shipping product now.
Look, if you want HDMI so bad that you think it's worth having one video output dedicated to it, just ****ing say so. There is ample evidence to suggest Apple would wire such a port as I've described, if it were to appear on an updated MBP. That's an absolute downside to me. If it's a positive for you, just ****ing say so, rather than trying to pretend that it isn't going to happen with ridiculous arguments.
You've got me there. I am predicting that the trend would continue, if this rumour turns out to be based in reality.
All sorts of constraints they faced with Intel, but didn't bother to work around in the M1? Sure ok.
It requires more PCIe lanes, sure. Combine the lanes required for those type-a ports, and a halfway-decent SD card reader and you're getting up towards what's needed for another TB3 port.
However it specifically doesn't require more DP streams. Yes more would be nice, but it's not a requirement. Even the Mac Pro, with a crazy dual-dual GPU setup won't provide enough DP streams for every single TB3 port. The point is that you can use them, up to the max supported, on any port.
As opposed to having n-1 available via TB3, because one is permanently stolen for HDMI
Show me where I said it needs "infinite" I/O. I said I/O is not infinite, as in, every processor has a designed amount of maximum I/O bandwidth/lanes. Some people want to be able to make their own choices about how that is used. Others want to hog-tie it to legacy ports because **** everyone else.
But sure, "nonsensical".
No, you clearly do not understand my point. I do not have, nor do I have plans to buy, any TB3 or USB-C monitors.
I'm not sympathetic to the concerns of people who think an 18 gram adapter is "too much" to carry with their 2KG laptop, no. But in your crusade for HDMI, you're dismissing any concern about using anything but HDMI. You can make a HDMI protector work with your TB3 or USB-C port, really ****ing easily, and really ****ing cheaply.
No amount of effort or money is going to make a HDMI port support a DisplayPort, or USB-C or TB3 display.
You need to stop misinterpreting what I write. I've not once mentioned losing TB3 ports. I've mentioned I/O lanes being dedicated to legacy ports instead of more TB3 ports, and I've mentioned video streams being dedicated to legacy ports instead of available to any of the TB3 ports.
Please try to read what I actually write, rather than just going all keyboard warrior about what you think I mean.
Seriously wtf. How many legacy ports do you need that requires "a load of boxy docks"? ONE USB-C (not even TB3) hub, about half the size of the USB-C charging brick Apple provide, will give you SD + microSD, 4K HDMI, a couple of USB3 Type-A ports, and even a downstream USB-C data port. Twenty nine ****ing dollars. 100 grams. The Anker one I found in 30 seconds (to get a weight to reference) even has ****ing USB PD passthrough, so you can get all those legacy ports you want, and charge the ****ing laptop, through one ****ing USB-C port.
If you have more than two USB devices, you'd always have needed a hub, unless you want to compare to the discontinued a decade ago 17", which got three USB2 ports.
Normally, you got two ports for USB, but you also had other ports like video out (HDMI/miniDisplay), SD card, magsafe and others. Right now it's just two or three USB-C. Which means you almost always need a hub to connect several peripherals that in the past you could easily hook.
I get the thickness part, which is why I am not in favor of Ethernet and even USB-A or Firewire from coming back. It would be nice to have. However, HDMI or mini-Display, Magsafe and SD card should come back. This way you have the few USB ports for XYZ reason.
This is the one thing Apple tried and failed at. The hub market has become a nice cottage industry for manufacturers because most of us rely on ports for many things.
USB-C, for all its advantages has never really caught on in the real world. I'm not going to buy a USB-C memory stick for use with my Macbook if I can't plug it into the USB-A ports on my work computer. I could buy a stick with both on but when manufacturers need to put a plug on either end of a memory stick the experiment has failed.
My UV-printer uses ethernet to connect. My laser cutter uses USB-A. My 3D printer uses standard SD cards. These are high-end devices. My desktop inkjet uses USB-A. My really good 2.4Ghz wireless mouse needs USB-A. My old DSLR uses regular SD cards. These are low end devices. I want to connect to my TV but there is no HDMI. My iPhone plugs in via USB-A. This is an Apple product!
My Macbook supports exactly 0 of these devices without some sort of additional hub gadget on the side at which point it has failed as a computer and I'm better off buying a Lenovo Windows 10 machine which supports all of these things with no additional hardware required.
I hope Apple bring back USB-A, Magsafe and the SD-card slot as a minimum and start making useful computers again.
USB-C, for all its advantages has never really caught on in the real world. I'm not going to buy a USB-C memory stick for use with my Macbook if I can't plug it into the USB-A ports on my work computer. I could buy a stick with both on but when manufacturers need to put a plug on either end of a memory stick the experiment has failed.
My UV-printer uses ethernet to connect. My laser cutter uses USB-A. My 3D printer uses standard SD cards. These are high-end devices. My desktop inkjet uses USB-A. My really good 2.4Ghz wireless mouse needs USB-A. My old DSLR uses regular SD cards. These are low end devices. I want to connect to my TV but there is no HDMI. My iPhone plugs in via USB-A. This is an Apple product!
My Macbook supports exactly 0 of these devices without some sort of additional hub gadget on the side at which point it has failed as a computer and I'm better off buying a Lenovo Windows 10 machine which supports all of these things with no additional hardware required.
I hope Apple bring back USB-A, Magsafe and the SD-card slot as a minimum and start making useful computers again.
Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide,
No escape from reality.
Open your eyes, Look up to the skies and USB-SEEEEEE.
Have u never heard of a USB-A to USB-C cable? It literally would solve all ur issues and they are super easy to find
You might consider one of those magnetic USB-C adapters, I bought a two-pack and keep one attached to my iPad Pro and a keyboard. The other end stays attached to two different USB-C cables, the magnet isn't quite as strong as MagSafe but it works fine and I don't have to deal with plugging in and taking out USB-C cables which requires so much force that I feel like it is about to break off inside my device.
