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2024 Formula 1 Season thread
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pachyderm
macrumors G5
Still find it funny how starting to drive at an aborted race situation attracts a fine that is less than swearing 🤷♂️
CWallace
macrumors G5
One has to have priorities.
Lots of priorities.
Lots of priorities.
Leaves the start, putting marshalls in danger, 5k fine, bloke says a swear word, 5k fine, someone make that make sense, really it is like getting 2 to 5 in the big house for farting in court.. You just know that is way too harsh...
Yet yet, you know that every 2nd word in the tv compound is a swear word, does the FIA fine the tv crew for swearing?
Yet yet, you know that every 2nd word in the tv compound is a swear word, does the FIA fine the tv crew for swearing?
The-Real-Deal82
macrumors P6
Either way they have to have a deterrent for swearing on live television. There are rules and guidelines for broadcasting across the world and repeated swearing can get a program cut from transmission when shown before the watershed, 9pm in the UK. Otherwise we end up with a Shaun Ryder situation where he appeared on a TFI Friday in the 90’s and repeatedly swore and nearly got the show cancelled. He is named in the channel 4 guidelines to this day and 30 years on he is banned from appearing on any of their live broadcasts.
With F1 it’s also about decency and knowing not every viewer is an adult, millions of children are watching too and swearing isn’t appropriate in casual conversation like it would be between friends and work colleagues. I’m sure we all come home from work and speak very differently to our wives and children lol.
Yes, fines are fine, but what Lando and others did on the aborted start is 100 times worse than saying *uck on air, but the fines are the same value.. That sends a very confusing message.. So next time, cheat on the start line, it is only 5 grand, cheap as... Swear and it is also 5 grand.
What is the FIA trying to say? Putting marshalls at risk is the same as swearing? Which it is not, but has the same fine value? Maybe 5 grand for swearing and 150k for what Lando did, and every car that left the grid, 150k or black flag? If not a 2 lap drive through? But to equate Lando's crime with swearing, that is insane... Someone should be sectioned for that..
What is the FIA trying to say? Putting marshalls at risk is the same as swearing? Which it is not, but has the same fine value? Maybe 5 grand for swearing and 150k for what Lando did, and every car that left the grid, 150k or black flag? If not a 2 lap drive through? But to equate Lando's crime with swearing, that is insane... Someone should be sectioned for that..
Actually, swearing is deemed twice as back; one got a 10K fine, not 5K like the aborted start, and the other got a community charge (equating to way more than the 10K).
Exactly that, one endangers lives, the other invokes '...but what about the children.' Whilst a) children rarely watch the pre shows, let alone the interviews afterwards. And b) know a heck of a lot more swearwords than most boomers do, and get great amusement out of that.
Save lives, or pretend to be all proper and think about the children. It is as hypocritical as it can be.
Protect the children from dirty words... over saving lives of marshals.. great call that by the FIA.. Years ago thinking like that would have seen you sectioned under the mental health act.. Now children have more rights and safety protection than marshals on/near the track.. It is woke out of control.. Say *uck twice and get a 2 yr ban? Is that next?
The-Real-Deal82
macrumors P6
I have no idea what the FIA are trying to say and to be honest I haven’t thought about comparing the two. What I don’t agree with is making fines or penalties up to suit fans or teams which is why there needs to be consistency. It wasn’t long ago fans were calling for penalties to be decided based on how hard cars hit barriers and that was completely absurd. It would be nice to actually have a weekend where the racing is the focus and not the penalties but this seems to be modern F1.
Not consistent so much as appropriate for the crime.. To equate swearing and leaving the grid under aborted start is beyond not the same level of crime, swearing is a misdemeanor, harms no one, driving off is extremely reckless and has the potential to cause harm...
But the FIA deem swearing a more serious offence, which makes me question the mental health of the FIA staff that believe in this.. Please, kids hear more swearing like that at a Sunday afternoon chess match in the park than 20 drivers could do in a season of F1..Swearing in the UK is really the national language, not English..
There is way more to the swearing, it is bordering on religious, that is how it seems, could be wrong, but this now is a big thing, since 1950, and don't tell me, the Saint Senna never swore, or Prost, Hill, the one timer Rosberg, swears regularly on air..
What about Saint Lauda, Saint Villenueve? Maybe take back their titles for swearing, I am sure they did, we know Max does, maybe the FIA should scan the archives, if he said "*uck" once toss his titles in the skip?? The FIA is on a slippery slope to insanity, F1 is way over-regulated and at the same time, under regulated, one wonders if staff are over medicated??
But the FIA deem swearing a more serious offence, which makes me question the mental health of the FIA staff that believe in this.. Please, kids hear more swearing like that at a Sunday afternoon chess match in the park than 20 drivers could do in a season of F1..Swearing in the UK is really the national language, not English..
There is way more to the swearing, it is bordering on religious, that is how it seems, could be wrong, but this now is a big thing, since 1950, and don't tell me, the Saint Senna never swore, or Prost, Hill, the one timer Rosberg, swears regularly on air..
What about Saint Lauda, Saint Villenueve? Maybe take back their titles for swearing, I am sure they did, we know Max does, maybe the FIA should scan the archives, if he said "*uck" once toss his titles in the skip?? The FIA is on a slippery slope to insanity, F1 is way over-regulated and at the same time, under regulated, one wonders if staff are over medicated??
The-Real-Deal82
macrumors P6
I thought I had missed the Norris incident as the one I saw was him pulling off for a second formation lap while the grid had been cleared, or is the issue there could have been marshalls trackside attending to Strolls car at T4? If this is the case, what is the protocol for marshalls in the run-off areas under a VSC? I say this as I haven't looked into this.
I think any measures to deter swearing in interviews is a good thing and couldn't give a toss whether drivers in the past used to swear or not etc. Broadcasters have a code of conduct as already explained and the FIA are the only body who can manage behaviour at a sporting level. I would imagine the guidelines are separate for on-track and media infringements and have no idea what a suitable course of action should be. Maybe a points deduction would be taken more seriously than a £5k fine that isn't even going to raise an eyebrow, I don't know.
laptech
Suspended
There are 195 countries in the world and what may be acceptable to one is not acceptable or even illegal to another. I have no doubt there are countries out there that prohibit swearing and thus bans any program that has swearing in it or bans live programs because the producers are unable to prevent swearing from taking place. I also believe that many countries have broadcasting rules about swearing and when it can be heard and if the swearing is hearing during these prohibited times, the broadcaster can be fined lots of money. Continued breaches of the rules on swearing can also get programs banned from being aired.
Broadcasters will want to show live F1 because they know viewers will pay to watch it BUT that it could be in jeopardy if the broadcasters keep on getting fined because someone in F1 is caught swearing during a live broadcast of the race. Too man fines and the broadcaster will tell F1 it is not longer going to broadcast it's races because they no longer want the risk of getting fined because the sport cannot control what comes out of the mouths of it's drivers.
A many many years ago I remember watching a documentary television program that delved into the issues of inappropriate behavior in sport and how broadcasters was able to deal with live TV. It initially focused on the football (soccer) World Cup and the Olympics where in the past you could hear from fans and sports people inappropriate language. The viewing public would complain which forced the broadcasters to act which is why now in live sports there is a few seconds delay from the live feed from the host country to the live feed into the viewing country because it allows the broadcaster time to mute out inappropriate language getting to the viewing public. Note, not every broadcaster has the facility and/or expertise to do this. Also many times the broadcaster will get caught off guard and inappropriate language slips through. This is when you will hear the program hosts apologize to the viewing public.
Contrary to what people believe, swearing is mainly tolerated but is never accepted. Schools do not allow it, the huge majority of parents do not allow it, the huge majority of employers do not allow it, the huge majority of sports do not allow it.
F1 has to follow suit and it's drivers need to accept that. A driver can still express their enjoyment of a win or express their anger/frustration at not winning without having to include the word ***k at every opportunity.
Broadcasters will want to show live F1 because they know viewers will pay to watch it BUT that it could be in jeopardy if the broadcasters keep on getting fined because someone in F1 is caught swearing during a live broadcast of the race. Too man fines and the broadcaster will tell F1 it is not longer going to broadcast it's races because they no longer want the risk of getting fined because the sport cannot control what comes out of the mouths of it's drivers.
A many many years ago I remember watching a documentary television program that delved into the issues of inappropriate behavior in sport and how broadcasters was able to deal with live TV. It initially focused on the football (soccer) World Cup and the Olympics where in the past you could hear from fans and sports people inappropriate language. The viewing public would complain which forced the broadcasters to act which is why now in live sports there is a few seconds delay from the live feed from the host country to the live feed into the viewing country because it allows the broadcaster time to mute out inappropriate language getting to the viewing public. Note, not every broadcaster has the facility and/or expertise to do this. Also many times the broadcaster will get caught off guard and inappropriate language slips through. This is when you will hear the program hosts apologize to the viewing public.
Contrary to what people believe, swearing is mainly tolerated but is never accepted. Schools do not allow it, the huge majority of parents do not allow it, the huge majority of employers do not allow it, the huge majority of sports do not allow it.
F1 has to follow suit and it's drivers need to accept that. A driver can still express their enjoyment of a win or express their anger/frustration at not winning without having to include the word ***k at every opportunity.
Laptech, I agree with the post, there is no debate over swearing, it should be dealt with, but the concern is making the offense worse in terms of monetary fine worse than driving off under unsafe/unclear conditions...
What Lando and others did is a far greater "crime" but the FIA treat it as a lessor of the 2 "crimes" dealt with.. Swearing v driving in an unsafe/unclear/unauthorized circumstance..
That is the issue, swearing is worse than what Lando did.. That is just insane thinking by the FIA.. To treat an actual driving offence as lessor offence is criminal and "section-able" if this occurred in the UK, the Race Director/FIA someone should be spending time in a decent ward at the state expense being cared for...
Swearing is nowhere near as bad as what Lando/Max and 17 others did..No way.. Nothing can justify placing swearing as a more severe crime..
What Lando and others did is a far greater "crime" but the FIA treat it as a lessor of the 2 "crimes" dealt with.. Swearing v driving in an unsafe/unclear/unauthorized circumstance..
That is the issue, swearing is worse than what Lando did.. That is just insane thinking by the FIA.. To treat an actual driving offence as lessor offence is criminal and "section-able" if this occurred in the UK, the Race Director/FIA someone should be spending time in a decent ward at the state expense being cared for...
Swearing is nowhere near as bad as what Lando/Max and 17 others did..No way.. Nothing can justify placing swearing as a more severe crime..
And then Charles's swearing was 10K and Max's swearing was a community service.
It is all just very strange. And what Max actually said is allowed on Dutch television. No problem at all, there are no rules for it. And importantly, in the FIA's home country, that is the same.
I appreciate that there are broadcasting rules like in the UK and the US, and some support them. Other countries are more liberal and support freedom of expression. A simple solution would be to add a delay to introduce beeps. Forcing people to change their cultural background and not being able to express themselves as they've always done goes a step too far in my opinion.
It is all just very strange. And what Max actually said is allowed on Dutch television. No problem at all, there are no rules for it. And importantly, in the FIA's home country, that is the same.
I appreciate that there are broadcasting rules like in the UK and the US, and some support them. Other countries are more liberal and support freedom of expression. A simple solution would be to add a delay to introduce beeps. Forcing people to change their cultural background and not being able to express themselves as they've always done goes a step too far in my opinion.
The-Real-Deal82
macrumors P6
Are you talking about the aborted start where the drivers did an additional parade lap without permission? I’m sure you’re not as the track was cleared at this point but I haven’t seen another incident. I didn’t see all the race and I’m not finding much on Lando’s false start apart from articles.
The track wasn't clear, the race was being reset. The signal was given for the teams to come out to the cars. That is what the aborted race signal entails. It would be useful to actually watch the race …
The track was "clear" that does not mean safe, the cars had no permission to do a parade, what if Lando took off, and then a marshal ran across the road, this has happened in the past, and was killed? To say it is of a lessor "crime" to drive without express permission of the race director, this is lessor than swearing, that is insane..
Swearing as an F1 crime is insane, it is unpleasant, take the offender into the office, give him/her the verbals that they require, fine them, fine, but to levy a fine of a value greater than that of the punishment metered out to Lando, sorry that is sheer insanity.. It is section-able, it is clear evidence that the men that run F1 are insane!!
Let's make this very clear, it is about legal.. When Lando and others wandered off the start line, and there was an accident, and a marshal was killed, Lando say Lando hit the marshal, ala Brundle in Japan, then Lando carries full weight, he has no protection from the FIA, it would be murder, and he would be culpable...
When the lights go off at the start, and Lando hits the marshal, he would have the full protection of the FIA, as he was legally allowed to be there, at worst in this case, you could argue, that Lando was trespassing as he did not have the permission to be on the track at the aborted start.. Max did not move, Max maybe figured out the legal aspects, or just was risk adverse.. We will never know one from the other..
That is the issue, one of legal liability..
Swearing as an F1 crime is insane, it is unpleasant, take the offender into the office, give him/her the verbals that they require, fine them, fine, but to levy a fine of a value greater than that of the punishment metered out to Lando, sorry that is sheer insanity.. It is section-able, it is clear evidence that the men that run F1 are insane!!
Let's make this very clear, it is about legal.. When Lando and others wandered off the start line, and there was an accident, and a marshal was killed, Lando say Lando hit the marshal, ala Brundle in Japan, then Lando carries full weight, he has no protection from the FIA, it would be murder, and he would be culpable...
When the lights go off at the start, and Lando hits the marshal, he would have the full protection of the FIA, as he was legally allowed to be there, at worst in this case, you could argue, that Lando was trespassing as he did not have the permission to be on the track at the aborted start.. Max did not move, Max maybe figured out the legal aspects, or just was risk adverse.. We will never know one from the other..
That is the issue, one of legal liability..
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The-Real-Deal82
macrumors P6
So it was that incident that you say put lives in danger. I think the fine was fitting, cars pulled away unauthorised at low speed and the track was clear. What stretch to keep bleating on about comparing this to conduct in front of the media. Both have their protocols and both are dealt with accordingly.
Right I’ve wasted enough time on this now and regret giving it the attention it didn’t deserve.
And so the British bias continues …
Johnny Herbert responded to comments about bias, he is like when I'm not a steward I'm entitled to an opinion, and to publisize it, he goes on to exclaim that he is a different person when he is a steward, but that his opinion is echoed by many and then (wait for it) continues to exclaim just ask Lando and Zak. OMFG The guy is not fit to be in that position.
And then Will Buxton, who surprised me as he tends to be neutral, he explained in response to why there is no British press at the winners conference that it is not bias, it is just because there weren't British winners so they can do other things and just wait for the transscript...Right so no british press because no british winners is not bias...Right got it.
This situation is getting sillier and sillier, so silly that for once I'm not even going into the distinction about UK press vs European press. Ahem, last time I looked the UK is still part of Europe...
Anyway, and the FIA remains silent.
Johnny Herbert responded to comments about bias, he is like when I'm not a steward I'm entitled to an opinion, and to publisize it, he goes on to exclaim that he is a different person when he is a steward, but that his opinion is echoed by many and then (wait for it) continues to exclaim just ask Lando and Zak. OMFG The guy is not fit to be in that position.
And then Will Buxton, who surprised me as he tends to be neutral, he explained in response to why there is no British press at the winners conference that it is not bias, it is just because there weren't British winners so they can do other things and just wait for the transscript...Right so no british press because no british winners is not bias...Right got it.
This situation is getting sillier and sillier, so silly that for once I'm not even going into the distinction about UK press vs European press. Ahem, last time I looked the UK is still part of Europe...
Anyway, and the FIA remains silent.
headlessmike
macrumors 68000
There has been a lot of discussion about the press conference that feels completely overblown. If you look the members of press that asked questions, there was one single journalist from outside of Brazil (L'Equipe). The post race press conference is primary for written media and attended by local journalists or member of agencies that other news cites. There weren't any Dutch journalists there either, as has been reported elsewhere.
pachyderm
macrumors G5
As does the "anti-british" bias.
What he did was stupid. If you had the same feed as me, Sky on espn, even the announcers weren't clear on what was going to happen next and then Lando took off which also baffled the announcers and we viewers. Lando got a fine. What more do you want? Jail time? Shouldn't it suffice to say that Lando is a prisoner of his own foibles and his lack of ability to beat Max.
10 seconds and 3 points. Failing that a penalty more severe than that for saying a swear word.
The confusion was only because Lando took off when he shouldn’t and then others followed. The messaging was clear to other who questioned what they were doing and had their engines switched off as per the rules under this message.
But as Johnny exclaimed many others agreed with his thinking just ask Zak and Lando 🤦♂️ Or as Will Buxton exclaimed “…because there are no British racers”.
All I want it some level of consistency.
pachyderm
macrumors G5
Couldn't agree more. I think if it had just been one or two cars the severity of the penalty might have been a little, if not a lot, different. As it is at least half the grid went with him. Maybe that influenced their judgement? Did anyone else get a fine? Did they just punish the ringleader?
Soooo on to the next topic?
Here it is: How relieved are you Max fans in knowing that Lando/McLaren are completely incompetent?
I don't think they have completely unraveled yet either, there is bound to be more to come as the pressure mounts.
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