23-inch iMac on September 12th?

[Erasmus]

Merom isn't a good choice if Allendale can be used due to costs - Merom is significantly more expensive.

I am aware, but Apple would be unlikely to seriously overhaul a new mac just to sell it to educational institutions. Just take the 17" Edu model, whack in a 1.86 or something Merom, and we have the perfect, cheap Edu computer with no work required on Apple's part.

This is of course completely unnacceptable for the 20" and 23" commercial iMacs, or the 17", if they decide to continue the line.

Of course, if Apple is willing to spend the effor to upgrde the Edu iMac to Allendale, then good on them, and it will be better for it.
(I also think I've made it extremely clear I am aware of the cost differences in previous posts)

 

[Peace]

I've read this argument before, about the heat. I'm unconvinced, personally -- See the G5 arguments, etc.

I still think it's about it being a "cheap" refresh, due to Merom being a drop-in replacement for Conroe, and they'll do an all-out redesign when they replace the motherboard for a newer chipset (say, Bearlake).

However, a Conroe-based mini-tower would likely get my $$$, depending on price. I've not seen anything to suggest it's anything but wishful thinking as of yet, but hey, count me in with the "wishers"

Making a 23" iMac IS a redesign so who knows what's going to go in it.I'm starting to believe this 23" iMac is going to be the 30th Anniversary Mac and because of this it might have some special stuff in it..

Who knows..We will find out more next week I'm sure.

 

[digitalbiker]

The iMac name is too well recognized as Apple's all-in-one computer. The iMac will remain the iMac, although I suppose a new minitower could be called Mac...

Really, I thought that the name "mac" short for "macintosh" was the name recognized as Apple's all-in-one computer. Geez, I must be getting old!

I think it would be great if the original "macintosh" / "mac" name came back. The whole ibook, imac, isite, ipod, i-my-a%% was getting a bit too cutesey

 

[~Shard~]

Really, I thought that the name "mac" short for "macintosh" was the name recognized as Apple's all-in-one computer. Geez, I must be getting old!

I think it would be great if the original "macintosh" / "mac" name came back. The whole ibook, imac, isite, ipod, i-my-a%% was getting a bit too cutesey

Yeah I agree, everything seems to be "iSomething" these days...

 

[ergle2]

I am aware, but Apple would be unlikely to seriously overhaul a new mac just to sell it to educational institutions. Just take the 17" Edu model, whack in a 1.86 or something Merom, and we have the perfect, cheap Edu computer with no work required on Apple's part.

This is of course completely unnacceptable for the 20" and 23" commercial iMacs, or the 17", if they decide to continue the line.

Of course, if Apple is willing to spend the effor to upgrde the Edu iMac to Allendale, then good on them, and it will be better for it.
(I also think I've made it extremely clear I am aware of the cost differences in previous posts)

I figured the "eMac" would be based on the 20"/23" design essentially, since economies of scale would suggest it'd be better to drop the old mobos etc. completely. I guess if the new systems want to take full advantage of the great amount of space (assuming no 17" consumer model) then that might not be so clear-cut.

Gah.

I just want a Merom-based MBP right now anyway...

 

[quadgirl]

Wow! 480 posts. Great discussion. After posting/reading through, this is my opinion:

1. Apple will bring out a 23" iMac shortly.
2. The range will be speed bumped. No new board, just the Merom dropped in (it's the same socket as Yonah)
3. Black might be an option.
4. slight GPU bump - maybe an x1650 or 7600GS (or maybe just a 7300GT as the Mac Pro has)
5. Same design with chin.

Doesn't sound exciting, but as this is just a Rev B intel iMac, this kind of update is so typical of Apple.

For what it's worth, and still being realistic, this would be more WOW

1. All machines (17", 20, and 23") to feature Conroe chips. Perhaps the 17" with 2mb cache models (Allendale) and Conroe 2.4ghz (E6600 is by far the best bang for the buck) on other models.
2. Black as an option
3. 7300GT on lower models, 7600GT for higher ones
4. Altered design with No chin.

I just hope they keep the Merom in laptops and the Conroe in the desktop (iMac). Go check out the E6600 benchmarks - it's quite a beast with excellent thermals and the price is by far the most competitive than anything else on the market

 

[BenRoethig]

Thanks for the link, it was an intresting thread. So basicly, the only differance between the two is the higher fsb on the Conroe. Looking through these results, we can see how this relates to the "real world". If anyone is intrested in reading the whole thread through, you can find it here.



SuperPi is like a hotrodding app for computers. I can appreciate how the top overclockers use it to fight out their systems, but it does not really reflect itself to any realworld apps. I'm suprised there is such a small differance with the 1MB run, but maby it fits into the cache completly so it does not end up suffering from the lower bandwidth.

Conroe is 8% faster on the 32MB run, 1% faster on the 1MB run



Conroe is 1% Faster



0.1% faster?



6% faster



Merom is 2% faster

Even in a memory Intensive program like SuperPi the differance is less then 10%, and as somebody allready tried to mention earlier in the thread, normal programs won't come even close to that differance.

Here's what I want to know, are they testing merom using a desktop socket 479 board or are they comparing a desktop conroe to a notebook merom? Use of a desktop 3.5" hard drive makes a big difference.

Here's a question to those who want a conroe iMac: are you willing to deal with a machine that is noticeably thicker and/or louder? If the answer is no, merom is the best choice.

 

[shanmui1]

4. slight GPU bump - maybe an x1650 or 7600GS (or maybe just a 7300GT as the Mac Pro has)

Only a slight bump is all we can hope for? I'm hoping for a x1900! (if possible heatwise) Why put such old cards in new machines which will not be updated for another 7-9 months? By which time the DX10 cards will have been out for a while, which will make the 7600's/1800's even more outdated. Though of course, that is what Apple likes to do with the iMac.....

 

[ergle2]

Here's what I want to know, are they testing merom using a desktop socket 479 board or are they comparing a desktop conroe to a notebook merom? Use of a desktop 3.5" hard drive makes a big difference.

It was a Desktop 479 mobo. The differences are pretty much entirely due to the FSB.

The overclocking tests were particularly interesting. It seems both will overclock hugely on air-cooling, though that's perhaps not terribly useful for an iMac discussion

 

[~Shard~]

Here's a question to those who want a conroe iMac: are you willing to deal with a machine that is noticeably thicker and/or louder? If the answer is no, merom is the best choice.

Yes. Yes I am. Bring back the G4 iMac design.

 

[IlluminatedSage]

wow, interesting news. Now if only apple will allow for a Great graphics card. then i may buy it and the new merom macbook.

need a home office which can do graphics work, and a good laptop with better than macbook graphics ability.

 

[MacinDoc]

Really, I thought that the name "mac" short for "macintosh" was the name recognized as Apple's all-in-one computer. Geez, I must be getting old!

I think it would be great if the original "macintosh" / "mac" name came back. The whole ibook, imac, isite, ipod, i-my-a%% was getting a bit too cutesey

I'm afraid that modern computer buyers' memories of the original beige Mac faded long ago (what do you expect - one poster on this thread described a 6 month old video card as "obsolete"). The image of Apple's all-in-one computer was revived by the iMac, which probably saved the company from extinction.

 

[xappeal]

I love the sound of a 23' iMac.

My call (haven't read if anyone has made it earlier, sorry if they have) is that apple will complete the transition of the imac to their media pc. IF they made a new iMac that has a 23' lcd I think we will see either a built in digital tv receiver or an over-priced external unit.

I think that will be the big iMac revision that we alway see between this time of the year and Christmas.

 

[Erasmus]

Hmmm...

My Cube has started making a faint, high pitched whine whenever the screen is mostly black. Perhaps my trusty Rage 128 video card will die soon, and I will be forced to buy a 23" iMac?

Wierd...

I really hope Apple put in a Digital TV tuner into the iMac. Watching Digital TV (which we currently don't have) would be really cool on such a high quality LCD screen.

 

[digitalbiker]

I love the sound of a 23' iMac.
IF they made a new iMac that has a 23' lcd I think we will see either a built in digital tv receiver or an over-priced e

Wow! A 23 foot wide screen iMac. I don't even thnk I have a room that could hold that. How many pixels is that?

 

[Reep]

Here's a question to those who want a conroe iMac: are you willing to deal with a machine that is noticeably thicker and/or louder? If the answer is no, merom is the best choice.

Speed is always nice. But, I am planning on using my upcoming iMac for audio recording. I would gladly take a loss in speed for silence. The last thing I want is the sound of my computer coming through my condenser microphone.

 

[xappeal]

Wow! A 23 foot wide screen iMac. I don't even thnk I have a room that could hold that. How many pixels is that?

Sorry, I'm from Australia where we use the metric system...... As does the rest of the world.....

 

[ffakr]

Oh, and I'll say it again.
The Mac Pro Is Overkill For Games. Games Do Not Require Quad Processors, Just A Great Graphics Processor. An X1900 In An iMac Would Make It An Amazing All Round Machine, Including Excellent For Games, With Only A Minimal Cost Increase (X1600 Pro -> X1900XTX ~ +US$200, half of this cost could be covered by choosing Conroe over Merom. Then we add cheaper Motherboard, and RAM, and suddenly we have an X1900 up from X1600, plus an extra dual 333Mhz to play with, all for free!).

(Ok, that makes no sense. Why does the X1900XTX cost 399, but the inferior X1800 XT costs 599??? WTF? Anyone who can explain this to me, please do.)

responding backward....

The X1800XT sells for $329 as per Pricegrabber.com not $599.

Apple won't put an X1900 in an iMac because the X1900 puts out way too much heat. There are vendors who sell X1900 cards with bundled liquid coolers (pump and radiator) because the x1900s with fans are so loud. I've heard thermals on the X1900s are up over 100W on the XTs.
Apple will never put a video card into an iMac that has twice the max wattage of the CPU.
The whole NVidia line has better thermal characteristics than the comparables from ATI (right now at least). A chip like the 7800GS is still a very fine 3d chip but the thermals are MUCH better than an ATI X1900. This would also require a less beefy (and cooler/quieter) power supply for the system.

There is a reason the X1900XT cards are double slot'ers... the new ATI chips run damn hot. Definately not an iMac GPU. There is a reason why the current X1600s are underclocked.

Finally (backwardly) Yes the Mac Pro is too much machine (CPU wise) for todays games. It's also a freaking bargain compared to similar PCs (even Dell). EDU pricing on a base machine with 1GB RAM and 2.0 GHz CPUs is under 2K. This is still a fantastic machine. The dual 2.66 is only $270 more USD.
Sure it's CPU heavy but it's a bargain for what you get. You can easily price out a Dell gaming rig that is in the same price range but you'll only get one Core2 Conroe in the Dell.
Here's the deal though.. the CPUs are over kill now (especially since games don't thread well) but you're upgrade proof. You can get a bitching X1900XT now which really will last you 2 or more years and you'll have a 16 lane PCI-E slot for upgrades in the future.
With multi-threaded OpenGL in OS X 10.5 and with the move to thread Windows Video games that initial investment in CPU power will pay off. The industry will have to follow because that's the only direction the hardware is headed. Game shops know that the roadmaps are pushing threading (SMP) and not increased serial performance. In 2 years, gaming machines from AMD and Intel will be Quad Core. If you want to know where PC Games are going, look where PC chips are going.
4 Cores in a Mac Pro is CPU overkill for PC games now but it won't be in 2 to 3 years. That's called insurance.

 

[Erasmus]

responding backward....

The X1800XT sells for $329 as per Pricegrabber.com not $599.

Apple won't put an X1900 in an iMac because the X1900 puts out way too much heat. There are vendors who sell X1900 cards with bundled liquid coolers (pump and radiator) because the x1900s with fans are so loud. I've heard thermals on the X1900s are up over 100W on the XTs.
Apple will never put a video card into an iMac that has twice the max wattage of the CPU.
The whole NVidia line has better thermal characteristics than the comparables from ATI (right now at least). A chip like the 7800GS is still a very fine 3d chip but the thermals are MUCH better than an ATI X1900. This would also require a less beefy (and cooler/quieter) power supply for the system.

There is a reason the X1900XT cards are double slot'ers... the new ATI chips run damn hot. Definately not an iMac GPU. There is a reason why the current X1600s are underclocked.

Finally (backwardly) Yes the Mac Pro is too much machine (CPU wise) for todays games. It's also a freaking bargain compared to similar PCs (even Dell). EDU pricing on a base machine with 1GB RAM and 2.0 GHz CPUs is under 2K. This is still a fantastic machine. The dual 2.66 is only $270 more USD.
Sure it's CPU heavy but it's a bargain for what you get. You can easily price out a Dell gaming rig that is in the same price range but you'll only get one Core2 Conroe in the Dell.
Here's the deal though.. the CPUs are over kill now (especially since games don't thread well) but you're upgrade proof. You can get a bitching X1900XT now which really will last you 2 or more years and you'll have a 16 lane PCI-E slot for upgrades in the future.
With multi-threaded OpenGL in OS X 10.5 and with the move to thread Windows Video games that initial investment in CPU power will pay off. The industry will have to follow because that's the only direction the hardware is headed. Game shops know that the roadmaps are pushing threading (SMP) and not increased serial performance. In 2 years, gaming machines from AMD and Intel will be Quad Core. If you want to know where PC Games are going, look where PC chips are going.
4 Cores in a Mac Pro is CPU overkill for PC games now but it won't be in 2 to 3 years. That's called insurance.

Yeah ok, that price sounds more reasonable. I pulled those two prices from ATi's website. Maybe the prices haven't been updated?

And also, about the prices. This is for all you Americans out there.

The Pictures are:

1) A nice Mac Pro gaming rig, or any non-super-pro rig.
2) Same as the first, with Edu prices.
3) A mostly maxed 20" iMac Edu
4) A bottom range Macbook Edu

As you can see, with any probable price of a 23" iMac, with awesome cooling, a great graphics card and a decent Conroe, it is likely to be under 4 grand. This means I could buy a Macbook and a 23" iMac for about the same cost as a low end Mac Pro with a good GPU. Or just have a grand and a half to play with after.

OK, I don't care if they put an nVIDIA or ATi card in the 23" iMac, just as long as its either a 7900 or an X1900, even if its just BTO. Apple should be able to come out with a 23" with 2.67 Conroe, 2Gb RAM and one of these GPUs for under 4 Grand AU. That would make me happy.

By the way, with EDU pricing, a 20" ACD costs a grand. A 23" costs 1400, and a 30" costs 2800. All AU$.

Oh, and the X1600s are ONLY underclocked in the 15" MBP. Not in iMacs, and not in the 17" MBP. I am 99% sure of this.

 

[Multimedia]

Mac Pro Is Quiet & Built For Audio Recording Power Needs

Speed is always nice. But, I am planning on using my upcoming iMac for audio recording. I would gladly take a loss in speed for silence. The last thing I want is the sound of my computer coming through my condenser microphone.

For audio you need maximum processing power. Reports are the Mac Pro is extreemly quiet. Just so you know.

 

[Peace]

Yeah ok, that price sounds more reasonable. I pulled those two prices from ATi's website. Maybe the prices haven't been updated?

And also, about the prices. This is for all you Americans out there.

The Pictures are:

1) A nice Mac Pro gaming rig, or any non-super-pro rig.
2) Same as the first, with Edu prices.
3) A mostly maxed 20" iMac Edu
4) A bottom range Macbook Edu

As you can see, with any probable price of a 23" iMac, with awesome cooling, a great graphics card and a decent Conroe, it is likely to be under 4 grand. This means I could buy a Macbook and a 23" iMac for about the same cost as a low end Mac Pro with a good GPU. Or just have a grand and a half to play with after.

OK, I don't care if they put an nVIDIA or ATi card in the 23" iMac, just as long as its either a 7900 or an X1900, even if its just BTO. Apple should be able to come out with a 23" with 2.67 Conroe, 2Gb RAM and one of these GPUs for under 4 Grand AU. That would make me happy.

By the way, with EDU pricing, a 20" ACD costs a grand. A 23" costs 1400, and a 30" costs 2800. All AU$.

Oh, and the X1600s are ONLY underclocked in the 15" MBP. Not in iMacs, and not in the 17" MBP. I am 99% sure of this.

The X1600 is underclocked in the iMac..
Lots of people have installed Windows on it and found this out using ATI's control panel.

 

[elsiedee]

Yes they do. Mine does, at least. I got it three days after they released the new specs (a few weeks ago). I bought it from apple.com, so it SHOULD be the latest one. Anyway, I was able to calibrate it to remove 90% of the tint. However if you put on a solid gray desktop wallpaper, you can still notice a pink hue on the left-third of the screen.

It should be but it may not be. What is the serial number? The new models start with 2A6281 or higher.

 

[hanoimac]

I love the sound of a 23' iMac.

My call (haven't read if anyone has made it earlier, sorry if they have) is that apple will complete the transition of the imac to their media pc. IF they made a new iMac that has a 23' lcd I think we will see either a built in digital tv receiver or an over-priced external unit.

I think that will be the big iMac revision that we alway see between this time of the year and Christmas.

My wish, though>>>

 

[Erasmus]

The X1600 is underclocked in the iMac..
Lots of people have installed Windows on it and found this out using ATI's control panel.

Really???
I was so sure that it was only the 15" MBP that they did this to.
It makes no sense to me why they would underclock an already cool GPU in a computer that has proved itself to be able to hold hot components, but only contains a laptop chipset and CPU. No matter, can you not clock it to ATi's recommended levels without voiding warranty, and without impacting much on heat produced?

And ffakr, where did you find the TDP of the graphics cards? I'm interested now as to just how much cooler a 7800 or 7900 would be to an X1800 or X1900.

SCORE!!! 500th Post!

 

[aswitcher]

So if we are getting a 23" iMac, does this mean we can get dual HDDs so we can make the most of Leopard (Time Machine)?