Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
baxterbrittle said:
What exactly is wrong with those specs? Given the time the machine was available? I agree 2 HD bays is a bit lame even the G4's took more than that. But what the hell do you want in a machine? Let me guess... Conroe Extreme 2.93 4GB Ram up to 8. 4 HDD bays SLI capable with 7950 standard 2 optical drive bays - All for $999 US? Get real or get lost - tell me what you reasonably expect for your fabled mini tower? The above machine is what people said they wanted at the time and nobody bought it what makes you think it will work this time?

I need convicing.

I'd like to see this:

Mid Tower
Core2Duo 1.86
512mb 1 DIMM (two slots)
1 Super Drive
1 SATA Drive 200GB (room for 1 more)
1 ATI X1650 Graphics (PCIe x16)
2 PCI Slots
6 USB 2.0

$1299 or less

I'd like that to be the base system with better GPU's and BTO options going up in price from there. There are other companies offering that same system (roughly) for $1000 so whats so hard about this???
 
After two years of bitching and moaning by pro users, Apple finally came out with
a damn sweet Pro Workstation even better than many had imagined.

This does leave room for a mid level prosumer mini tower, but it doesn't seem
to be a priority at the moment. But...... we haven't seen what Apple is doing with the mini updates yet either, so keep your panties on!

A whole bunch of people love the iMacs for their space saving features.
You plug it in and it works without extra cables running to and from your
CPU to your display. It's neat and clean and very impressive in any setting.

IF...Apple does offer a larger 23" iMac, I figure the retail price will come in
at just under $2000.00

When you consider the price of a 23" display alone, that's not bad at all.
 
sbarton said:
The real problem during the G5 era was the G5. Remember there was ALOT of pressure to get the G5 going on the Mhz front. Everyone was scratching thier heads and wondering what the delay was. The G5 is/was a great processsor but the 1.8 was the slowest that they could dare come out with in a machine without suffering negative comparisons with competitors. But on the other hand, the 2.0 was pretty much as fast as they could get from IBM. There really wasn't a big enough spread/choice in CPUs to create the type product spread that I think Apple would have liked to have had. It was a major fiasco and IMO one of the things that pushed Steve to ring up Intel.

The G5 iMac was Apple making lemonade out of lemons. It was/is a great machine but I think they would have liked to have offered more had they the choice. I mean, using your argument, why did Apple sell G3 and G4 towers when the iMac and eMac were availible? Or are you going to propose that all of those systems went to pros?

Yes there were definatly problems with the G5. But the point I was making is that Apple have brought out cheaper stirpped back towers that still offer expandability but few people actually bought them. The Cube is another example. Using my argument somehow the high end machines always went to pro's? I'm not really sure what you are talking about there. What I was saying is they brought out more entry machines and they were not popular. I personally think the Mac Pro is very good value for money - I mean people still bought G5's. The Mac Pro is a far better machine for around the same money. The entry quad is only $150 more than the old dual core 2.0GHz but you get sooo much more for that extra $150 that it seems pretty justifiable. I mean would everyone be happy if the Mac Pro's had all been conroe except for the top and in exchange you saved $150?

Offer more than what in the iMac G5? Faster processor Yes. Upgradability No.

Still I asked for a specs/features/price list of what people would reasonably expect for a mini tower.

Edit: Sorry missed a couple of posts. Check specs above.
 
sbarton said:
I'd like to see this:

Mid Tower
Core2Duo 1.86
512mb 1 DIMM (two slots)
1 Super Drive
1 SATA Drive 200GB (room for 1 more)
1 ATI X1650 Graphics (PCIe x16)
2 PCI Slots
6 USB 2.0

$1299 or less

I'd like that to be the base system with better GPU's and BTO options going up in price from there. There are other companies offering that same system (roughly) for $1000 so whats so hard about this???


That would be a nice machine. However there will be people saying two Ram slots is nowhere near enough. So lets bump that to Four.

Hmmm.... you know they seem very similar to something I've seen before.

G5 Single 1.8,
4 Ram slots,
1 Optical drive,
2 HDD bays,
3 PCI Slots,
5 USB's,
Upgradeable Graphics.

At the time the higher end machines where dual's
Now the higher end machines are quads and your begging for a dual.
 
sbarton said:
I'd like to see this:

Mid Tower
Core2Duo 1.86
512mb 1 DIMM (two slots)
1 Super Drive
1 SATA Drive 200GB (room for 1 more)
1 ATI X1650 Graphics (PCIe x16)
2 PCI Slots
6 USB 2.0

$1299 or less

There was a thread here about some enterprising folks who were just removing one processor from the Mac Pro and selling it on eBay. (I can't recall what the processors were worth but $600 seems to ring a bell.)

Anyway, that's what I want: a Mac Pro with 1 woodcrest (and the ability to add a second later). Say, $1700 or so for the 2.0 GHz one and a 160GB hard drive.

-Squire

P.S. I don't have time to check what the processors in the Mac Pro are worth. Anyone know off hand?
 
Squire said:
There was a thread here about some enterprising folks who were just removing one processor from the Mac Pro and selling it on eBay. (I can't recall what the processors were worth but $600 seems to ring a bell.)

Anyway, that's what I want: a Mac Pro with 1 woodcrest (and the ability to add a second later). Say, $1700 or so for the 2.0 GHz one and a 160GB hard drive.

-Squire

P.S. I don't have time to check what the processors in the Mac Pro are worth. Anyone know off hand?

You see? This is the problem with a mid range tower, nobody can decide what they want in one. One person just wants to upgade the GPU whilst another wants theirs to be quad capable. Conroe/woodcrest, SLI capable? This is why the product line is what it is, clear and easily defined. Put everything possible in the top machines, put what most people need in the middle and basic stuff at the bottom. Mac Pro, iMac, Mac mini.
 
baxterbrittle said:
You see? This is the problem with a mid range tower, nobody can decide what they want in one. One person just wants to upgade the GPU whilst another wants theirs to be quad capable. Conroe/woodcrest, SLI capable? This is why the product line is what it is, clear and easily defined. Put everything possible in the top machines, put what most people need in the middle and basic stuff at the bottom. Mac Pro, iMac, Mac mini.

Well I see this totally differently.
Nobody can decide because there are many people who don't see current scheme (MP, iMac, Macmini) addressing their needs.

What we need is wider range of BTO and upgradable kit from Apple.
What do we have now for Mac Pro? Graphic cards for example, like 3~4 choices?
 
You folks might want to rethink this 12th stuff

From yourmaclife.com

http://yourmaclife.com/

"Ooops....Sorry....
Contributed by: Shawn
Mea culpa....

I screwed up *big* time on last Wednesday's show.

One of the hardest things to do on a live radio show is read text, comprehend it and talk about it all at the same time. Usually, I can do it pretty well but this past Wednesday was not a shining moment for me.

I got an "anonymous" email during the show. The email stated *many* things, most of them incredible, some of them unbelievable and some of the very exciting (in a "journalism scoop" kinda way).

While trying to read and comprehend the email, I stated on the show that I had just gotten an "official" email from Apple regarding a Press Invite to an event during the "2nd week of September". The email I received was *not* officially from Apple - it was *not* a typical Apple Invite to their press events.

But, in trying to get the info in the email out to the audience, i screwed up and claimed it was something it was not. I apologize to Apple in particular and to anyone else who was confused or upset by what I said.

If you listen during the show, you can hear J, Lesa and I trying to "figure out the date" the Press Event would happen - if we had an official invite from Apple, it would have included the date. We just put two and two together to come up with the Sept 12th date - after all, it makes sense. Apple often announces new things on Tuesday and Tuesday the 12th is the opening day of the Apple Expo in Paris."
 
what does this really mean...

Peace said:
You folks might want to rethink this 12th stuff

From yourmaclife.com

http://yourmaclife.com/

"Ooops....Sorry....
Contributed by: Shawn
Mea culpa....

I screwed up *big* time on last Wednesday's show.

One of the hardest things to do on a live radio show is read text, comprehend it and talk about it all at the same time. Usually, I can do it pretty well but this past Wednesday was not a shining moment for me.

I got an "anonymous" email during the show. The email stated *many* things, most of them incredible, some of them unbelievable and some of the very exciting (in a "journalism scoop" kinda way).

While trying to read and comprehend the email, I stated on the show that I had just gotten an "official" email from Apple regarding a Press Invite to an event during the "2nd week of September". The email I received was *not* officially from Apple - it was *not* a typical Apple Invite to their press events.

But, in trying to get the info in the email out to the audience, i screwed up and claimed it was something it was not. I apologize to Apple in particular and to anyone else who was confused or upset by what I said.

If you listen during the show, you can hear J, Lesa and I trying to "figure out the date" the Press Event would happen - if we had an official invite from Apple, it would have included the date. We just put two and two together to come up with the Sept 12th date - after all, it makes sense. Apple often announces new things on Tuesday and Tuesday the 12th is the opening day of the Apple Expo in Paris."

Have we all just been going on about Sept 12th being this really big day for some really big news and it was all just a mistake? If so I should have gotten the Mac Pro at the Apple store earlier today instead of waiting... so confused...:confused:
 
yourmaclife radio show is where the Sept.12th date ORIGINATED..

All the other rumor sites point to your mac life as the main source for the "invitation".

He has tonite recanted his story..

There have been no invitations.No Apple press release..

This could be all a HUGE bad snowball effect..


who knows..

I do know this guy said he made a mistake and received no invitation.
 
sbarton said:
I'd like to see this:

Mid Tower
Core2Duo 1.86
512mb 1 DIMM (two slots)
1 Super Drive
1 SATA Drive 200GB (room for 1 more)
1 ATI X1650 Graphics (PCIe x16)
2 PCI Slots
6 USB 2.0

$1299 or less

I'd like that to be the base system with better GPU's and BTO options going up in price from there. There are other companies offering that same system (roughly) for $1000 so whats so hard about this???

I want pretty much the same thing except in the Mac Pro case and with 4 DIMM slots.
 
Peace said:
yourmaclife radio show is where the Sept.12th date ORIGINATED..

All the other rumor sites point to your mac life as the main source for the "invitation".

He has tonite recanted his story..

There have been no invitations.No Apple press release..

This could be all a HUGE bad snowball effect..


who knows..

I do know this guy said he made a mistake and received no invitation.
There was also a rumor about the 14th.
The way I see it, something will be announced soon in any case. On Intel's current price list, Merom is as cheap as or cheaper than similarly clocked Yonah chips, so Yonah is dead. Merom will be in Minis, iMacs, MBs and MBPs as soon as Apple can get its hands on enough of them.

Of course, Apple Legal may have "suggested" to this guy that he should recant his story...
 
If You Have Been Thinking Anything Happening In September Affects Mac Pro Desire...

vansouza said:
Have we all just been going on about Sept 12th being this really big day for some really big news and it was all just a mistake? If so I should have gotten the Mac Pro at the Apple store earlier today instead of waiting... so confused...:confused:
Hey Wake Up Vansouza! :eek:

Nothing is going to happen until January that will impact your decision to buy a Mac Pro. Go get it tomorrow and be happy. ;)

Sideline Off Topic Bulletin: A brand NEW CBS NEWS iTunes Room is offering an amazing array of FREE Audio & Video Podcasts at the iTunes Store now. Katie Couric is gonna be on iTunes Podcasts daily before and longer than on any broadcasts. It's revolutionary and worthy of a News item on the cover of MacRumors. But I dont' know how you get a story put there. So any moderators out there check it out at this link to the CBS iTunes Room. I am blown away. I think this is one of the most revolutionary things to happen to news integration between traditional broadcast television and the internet and we have Katie Couric and Les Moonves to thank for it. :D
 
baxterbrittle said:
Well I'm sorry you feel that way. Having said that you have a Cuber in your post and I think we should discuss that. Firstly the Cube was the great upgradable iMac - the Headless iMac whatever (I know at the time it was more expensive etc...) Now on your particular machine you have upgraded the RAM to 512MB and the HDD to 250GB but your still using the Rage 128 the machine came with - and that was a pathetic card at trhe time too. Why have you never upgraded the GPU in your Cube? Did you convince yourself you needed a Cube when they came out because you could upgrade the GPU and such?

And I don't think I explained myserlf too clearly before. I do care if the iMac came with a better GPU than it has now, I'd be stoked in fact, but even if it still had the x1600 in it I would think that it was a pretty good card for the machines intended purpose. I have sold a lot of iMacs to many different people and not one ever has asked what type of graphics card it has in it. Never. Think about that. These are the people buying the machines. Apple are not making them for you, they are making them for those people. Shout at the Moon all you want but mayber you should upgrade the graphics in your cube first as you paid more money when you bought it to be able to do that.

Yeah, ok. I will never upgrade my Cube's GPU, and I would probably not upgrade the GPU, CPU or anything else in a new iMac.

BUT:

An upgradeable computer is far more likely to have etter BTO's than a non upgradeable one. If Apple are deciding what they willput in there for you, they are more likely to offer a really great GPU if it is easy for them to put in. If the iMac is designed for the X1600, then yo won't get anything else. If it's designed to be upgradeable, and therefore designed to be able to run cards upward of 100 TDP, like the high X1900s, then Apple is more likely to add an X1900 XT or so to the bottom of its GPU list when customising our new 23" iMacs online.

Oh, and by the way, I'm 19. I don't consider myself to have the skills to replace the GPU in my Cube. I probably would try it with a Mac Pro, but I wouldn't try pulling apart my Cube, because there is a good chance I would stuff it up. Also, what's the point of upgrading the CPU or GPU in my cube? I doubt whether I could ever get it to be able to play Quake 4 or apply video effects in real time in iMovie. So whats the point, when I could just buy a new computer, that will last me much longer, is better designed, and has a much higher performance for much less effort, and probably similar cost?

And who knows? Considering I'm becoming an engineer, I might soon be able to, and wish to, upgrade the CPU and GPU in my then old 23" iMac to something more powerful. You never know.
 
sigamy said:
Thanks for the line-by-line commentary, it look me 20 minutes to write that post (kids keep calling me) so I'm glad someone read it...

I live to please :).

I'm not considering the current Mac Pros. Those are for, ready for it? Pros.

Fine, call the minitower "Mac Pro Mini", and sell it as a "pro" machine. That would solve that particular "problem". Look at Apples product-segments. They have two consumer-desktops (Mac Mini and iMac). Why not have two pro-desktops as well?

You guys are just in denial. This supposed huge market just isn't there. Please, if you need a machine today, and have certain requirements that are not met by Apple, then please go buy a Dell. Please!

So, you would rather see Apple lose sales, than to see Apple sell a minitower (or pizzabox)? Seriously: what is so bad about minitowers?

If Apple came out with a mini tower nothing would change except for the fact that a very small percentage of people who are interested in a mini tower would go and buy one. Big deal. This is not going to change Apple's market share, position in the computing world, etc.

There are quite a few people who would just love to have such a machine. If you look at Apple's product-lineup, you will see that there is no big gap pricewise. Mac Pro starts just above where iMac ends. But there is absolutely HUGE gap if you look at capabilities.

1. The market is too small to care about.

Since minitowers are the #1 sellers right now, I fail to see how that is the case.

2. Steve Jobs is obsessed with design/athestics and selling the whole widget.

They already sell the Mini and Mac Pro, which nullifies this argument. And there is NOTHING inherint in minitower that would make it ugly.

3. Apple can't successfuly compete in this market.

Sure they could. Lots of users (even PC-users) would want a good looking and elegant computer. And Mac Pro has shown that Apple CAN go toe-to-toe pricewise with cheapest name-brand PC's out there, while maintaining their upper hand in overall design of the system. There is nothing preventing Apple from competing in this market.
 
dsnort said:
Because they are not common.

That is circular reasoning. Why aren't PC-users buying AIO's? Because they are not common. Why aren't they common? Because users are not buying them.

My point being that you argued that a minitower Mac would sell because minitower PCs are the most popular form.

There are lots of PC-people who are looking at buying a Mac. They already have their PC's, and they would like to get a Mac instead. So what are their options?

- They get rid of their PC-hardware, and get an iMac
- They get functionally limited Mac Mini, and use their current hardware with it
- They get a second mortage on their house and buy a Mac Pro

Are any of those ideals solutions? No they are not.

It really is quite simple. Apple just needs one more product in their product-matrix to cover all their bases. Mini can work with users existing hardware, but it's capabilities are limited, and it's quite slow (relatively speaking). iMac is faster (but not _fast_), but it's even less versatile (you get a screen with it). Mac Pro has the versatility, but it's overkill in some areas (quad-core and high price). There is a HUGE gap between Mac Mini and Mac Pro, as far as versatility is concerned. Either you get somewhat versatile (but not expandable) machine that is slow, or you get an uber-expensive quad-core machine.

Same as above, plus my feeling and having seen people buy these bundled machines to replace a current PC, monnitor and all.

Yes, they are buying bundled machines, but they are NOT all-in-one's. If they want to, they could expand the capabilities of the machine. If they want to, they could replace the screen with something else. That is simply not possible with the iMac. There is a HUGE difference between a computer that comes bundled with a monitor, and a computer that has a built-in monitor.

I quess different people look at it differently. To me this computer is very fast, almost instantaneous, don't know that going any faster would be beneficial to me. Never have to wait on the graphics either. Now, if I needed it for gaming or some other graphics intensive usage, I'd probably look at a MacPro.

But why should people be forced to look at MacPro? That machine is totally overkill in some areas, 98% of users do NOT need quad-core machine, even if they were powerusers.

If selling X number of minitowers costs you Y number of iMac or MacPro sales, is it worth it? To date, these market numbers have not been shared with any of us.

Would it really matter to Apple if they got their money from selling Mac Pro's or Mac Pro Mini's? Either way, they get their money. And I bet that the MPM would make quite a few PC-users in to Apple's customers. They might not use OS X, but they would use Windows instead. And since Apple is a hardware-company, there shouldn't be any issues with that since Apple would still get their money.

Why is everyone so concerned about minitower reducing the sales of Mac Pro, whereas at the same time we are being told that "if you want a minitower, buy a Dell"? In the former case, Apple would not lose money, since people would still be buying Apple-hardware. In the latter case, Apple would be losing sales.

Fact of a matter is that PC-users have grown accustomed to certain type of machines: minitowers. Closest thing Apple has to offer is the Mac Pro, but it costs so much, that many users will simply say "Instead of buying a machine that costs over 2000 bucks, I'm just going to buy this $1300 PC-minitower instead which suits my needs just fine."
 
<Referring to my earlier post about just releasing a single-processor (2.0 GHz Woodcrest) Mac Pro>
baxterbrittle said:
You see? This is the problem with a mid range tower, nobody can decide what they want in one. One person just wants to upgade the GPU whilst another wants theirs to be quad capable. Conroe/woodcrest, SLI capable? This is why the product line is what it is, clear and easily defined. Put everything possible in the top machines, put what most people need in the middle and basic stuff at the bottom. Mac Pro, iMac, Mac mini.

I was just trying to make things simple for Apple. :D It was an example of how easy it would be to fill this void-- rip out one processor.

What the screaming masses want is an expandable tower that sits somewhere between the iMac and the Mac Pro specs-wise. I think it's a grand idea because it would give (1) switchers who bought the mac mini (and a 20" Apple display) something to move up to, and (2) people who "outgrew" their iMac something to move up to. In the end, I don't really care because, as the excellent post below suggests, I am going to sell my house and get a Mac Pro. :D There's a $425 difference and you have to buy a monitor.

Evangelion said:
There are lots of PC-people who are looking at buying a Mac. They already have their PC's, and they would like to get a Mac instead. So what are their options?

- They get rid of their PC-hardware, and get an iMac
- They get functionally limited Mac Mini, and use their current hardware with it
- They get a second mortage on their house and buy a Mac Pro

Are any of those ideals solutions? No they are not.

Word.

-Squire
 
Peace said:
yourmaclife radio show is where the Sept.12th date ORIGINATED..

All the other rumor sites point to your mac life as the main source for the "invitation".

He has tonite recanted his story..

There have been no invitations.No Apple press release..

This could be all a HUGE bad snowball effect..


who knows..

I do know this guy said he made a mistake and received no invitation.

Thinksecret is claiming that their sources also are reporting a Sept. 12th event. The plot thickens.

-Squire
 
Squire said:
Thinksecret is claiming that their sources also are reporting a Sept. 12th event. The plot thickens.

Well I guess that settles it then:cool:
 
It does make you wonder how cheaply they could offer the new iMac for.

I think I'd be in the market for it if it came to about £1300 with 1GB of RAM and a 256mb Graphics card.


Otherwise it is probably slightly above my budget :-/
 
CJM said:
It does make you wonder how cheaply they could offer the new iMac for.

I think I'd be in the market for it if it came to about £1300 with 1GB of RAM and a 256mb Graphics card.


Otherwise it is probably slightly above my budget :-/

Therein lies one of the major advantages of Conroe/Allendale over Merom. They cost a fraction of what Merom would for the same clock speeds.
 
Why Apple is unlikely to offer a Conroe!

It may have been mentioned in this topic earlier.

Intel is a volume business, its partly why Apple selected them over AMD. They can and do produce enormous numbers of chips.

The way they sell them is also based on Volume, they sell them in 1000 unit quantities and drop their prices dramatically as you increase the number of 1000s of chips you are prepared to take. Hence why Dell is so cheap.

When Apple went Intel, i wondered how they'd keep the systems at the same price levels. Sure there'd be some savings in using PC standard chips such as north/south bridges, but x86 chips always cost more than motorola's and possibly IBM's PPCs.

Everyone wondered just how good a deal Apple could strike with Intel. Well the answer is they only buy 2 processors from Intel at a limited number of frequencies. ie. currently Yonah at [DOH!EDIT} 1.5,1.66,1.83,2.0,2.16 [/DOH!EDIT] and Woodcrest at 2.0/2.66/3.0. This allows Apple to order the highest number of any particular chip and get the best discount they can. Conroe would introduce another Chip/Chipset and reduce the overall volumes so that apple would be ordering less of any particular chip.

Apple will stick to 2 chip lines wherever it can. If the Mac mini remains on Yonah, i'll have to rethink this theory. But maybe that'll only be a temporary measure. Maybe Apple has bought enough Yonahs to last them through to MWSF07.

M.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.