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3.0 Question Blackberry related

T

tespy

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Hello all,

I hope everyone is well. I have a quick question I have been using the iphone since October and I love it, I also loved the blackberry its like what each has the other is missing. Anyway I just switched back to the blackberry because, I miss the push emails and getting aol instant messenger messages without being in the program.

Anywho can anyone tell me the details of Apple's new push software in the next update, and if the data plan will cost more, and also when can we expect the feature and will it give us instantaneous email?

Thanks a bunch
 
Well that is what is suppose to happen, that the push service from :apple: will work with 3.0, and not only for emails and IM but for any application that use the push services as described in the announcement.
See the video, it's very interesting.
I haven't use a Blackberry, does it allows to have a push service for other things besides emails and IM ?
 
The iPhone already has Push for emails. What will be added is push notifications for apps (IM, ToDO apps...)
 
When I say push email I mean comparable to the blackberry when you get your emails instantly not every 15 mins without buying mobileme
 
tespy said:
When I say push email I mean comparable to the blackberry when you get your emails instantly not every 15 mins without buying mobileme
Click to expand...
I never used a blackberry, so I couldn't answer this question. But as a blackberry user, don't you have to pay for subscription to blackberry email account in order to use their push mail function?
 
tespy said:
When I say push email I mean comparable to the blackberry when you get your emails instantly not every 15 mins without buying mobileme
Click to expand...

That is push email that's available, only available with MobileMe or Yahoo. With the Blackberry you also need BES or BIS to have push, right?

If you want push with google, or other email account that is up to them, not apple.
 
From what I understand this is an issue on the mail server side, not the iPhone. If Gmail supported Push then the mail would instantly show up on the phone (is that correct?).
 
CocoaPuffs said:
I never used a blackberry, so I couldn't answer this question. But as a blackberry user, don't you have to pay for subscription to blackberry email account in order to use their push mail function?
Click to expand...

yup. same deal and same price as the iphone data plan currently. you get access through at&t WAP and through BIS (for push e-mail and the other blackberry stuff).
 
Sky Blue said:
Yahoo does push too.



Yes
Click to expand...

it's been a while, but i think push on the iphone was just constant polling of the server, which results in lower battery life.

the IM apps on the blackberry don't have push.. they can just run in the background so you set and get notifications.
 
1Zach1 said:
From what I understand this is an issue on the mail server side, not the iPhone. If Gmail supported Push then the mail would instantly show up on the phone (is that correct?).
Click to expand...
Gmail (and Gmail on Google Apps for Domains) supports "push" with BlackBerry Internet Service (BIS), so the answer is somewhat more complicated.
 
I am on the 3.0 beta (fathers a registered developer, so i have it legally) and my 3 Gmail accounts (Personal, Youtube, and Website) are all PUSHING now, before it was the 15 minute intervals and was fetching, since i updated it is pushing.
 
anjinhamarota said:
That is push email that's available, only available with MobileMe or Yahoo. With the Blackberry you also need BES or BIS to have push, right?

If you want push with google, or other email account that is up to them, not apple.
Click to expand...

Sort of... you don't get any mail in your inbox on a Blackberry without using a BES or BIS. The server is critical to the way a BB works. In general, as a result, all your e-mail accounts, whether they be Yahoo/Hotmail/GMail/AOL or other POP/IMAP accounts or Outlook accounts, function as push, but there is some variability in how fast the mail gets to the Blackberry, with the BB mail account being the absolute fastest, the IMAP and Exchange accounts being nearly as fast, and the POP accounts being somewhat slower.

So on the BB side, it isn't so much whether a service is push or not -- all e-mail is always push on Blackberries. It's a matter of how quickly it gets pushed. Push acts like you'd expect it to generally with Exchange accounts and IMAP IDLE accounts.

But on the other hand, yes, in Apple's model, push is achieved through the way the e-mail service's server works, and not through a central Apple server (unless you use MobileMe), and so for a new account to be push capable requires the change on the server side.
 
Blackberry push is far superior to yahoo or mobileme push that apple offers. Your blackberry will just sitting there and when the blackberry server grabs a message, it will ping your phone, if it gets a response, the email comes. Not all email is instant though, but they all are push based. It's great for battery life and reliability I think. RIM has deals with the major email providers like yahoo and google to provide instant email, but other, smaller companies won't. You'll get your email every 15 minutes when it's polled by the blackberry servers on your behalf. The phone does nothing.

On the iphone, your phone needs to constantly poll, doesn't matter whether it's push or not. It's a battery drainer, plain and simple. That's why my curve can get 2-3 days on a charge, and my iphone would lose 15% of it's battery life just sitting on my nightstand while I sleep. For push email, the iphone pings the server regularly, but never opens a full connection. That way the server knows the iphone is there. And when mail arrives at the server, it can be pushed. For fetch, your iphone will simply make a full connection and check at whatever interval you set.

On my iphone (which I use on weekends only) has mobileme, exchange from work set for push and a gmail account set at 1 hour fetch. The battery will be dead at the end of the day with minimal use. It's maintaining a heartbeat for 2 push servers and fetching gmail every hour. That's a lot of wasted time I think.

On my blackberry (I use during the week), none of that happens. It just sits there. The blackberry server is doing all the heavy lifting, checking my email for me. When I get mail, it pings the phone and then sends the message. Done.

Apple I think is realizing this is the best way to get good battery life. Hence they are working on their push notification! Servers, doing all the work of receive all the various notifications, and then only sending something to the phone it's needed.
 
mrtune said:
Blackberry push is far superior to yahoo or mobileme push that apple offers. Your blackberry will just sitting there and when the blackberry server grabs a message, it will ping your phone, if it gets a response, the email comes. Not all email is instant though, but they all are push based. It's great for battery life and reliability I think. RIM has deals with the major email providers like yahoo and google to provide instant email, but other, smaller companies won't. You'll get your email every 15 minutes when it's polled by the blackberry servers on your behalf. The phone does nothing.

On the iphone, your phone needs to constantly poll, doesn't matter whether it's push or not. It's a battery drainer, plain and simple. That's why my curve can get 2-3 days on a charge, and my iphone would lose 15% of it's battery life just sitting on my nightstand while I sleep. For push email, the iphone pings the server regularly, but never opens a full connection. That way the server knows the iphone is there. And when mail arrives at the server, it can be pushed. For fetch, your iphone will simply make a full connection and check at whatever interval you set.

On my iphone (which I use on weekends only) has mobileme, exchange from work set for push and a gmail account set at 1 hour fetch. The battery will be dead at the end of the day with minimal use. It's maintaining a heartbeat for 2 push servers and fetching gmail every hour. That's a lot of wasted time I think.

On my blackberry (I use during the week), none of that happens. It just sits there. The blackberry server is doing all the heavy lifting, checking my email for me. When I get mail, it pings the phone and then sends the message. Done.

Apple I think is realizing this is the best way to get good battery life. Hence they are working on their push notification! Servers, doing all the work of receive all the various notifications, and then only sending something to the phone it's needed.
Click to expand...

My iPhone's battery lasts at least 2 days with Push on...
 
My POP and Yahoo are pushing normally with 3.0B.

Google is a little quirky. Sometimes it pushes, sometimes it doesn't.

But Yahoo has been consistent and so has my POP.
 
exchange too

dont forget you can also have push with microsoft exchange server you can shop around the net for hosted exchange push email and get it as low as 7 a month and push exchange mail is just as fast as blackberry push email is and you can get push calenders as well with those services just google hosted iphone exchange and a bunch of results will come up.
 
mrtune said:
Blackberry push is far superior to yahoo or mobileme push that apple offers. Your blackberry will just sitting there and when the blackberry server grabs a message, it will ping your phone, if it gets a response, the email comes. Not all email is instant though, but they all are push based. It's great for battery life and reliability I think. RIM has deals with the major email providers like yahoo and google to provide instant email, but other, smaller companies won't. You'll get your email every 15 minutes when it's polled by the blackberry servers on your behalf. The phone does nothing.

On the iphone, your phone needs to constantly poll, doesn't matter whether it's push or not. It's a battery drainer, plain and simple. That's why my curve can get 2-3 days on a charge, and my iphone would lose 15% of it's battery life just sitting on my nightstand while I sleep. For push email, the iphone pings the server regularly, but never opens a full connection. That way the server knows the iphone is there. And when mail arrives at the server, it can be pushed. For fetch, your iphone will simply make a full connection and check at whatever interval you set.

On my iphone (which I use on weekends only) has mobileme, exchange from work set for push and a gmail account set at 1 hour fetch. The battery will be dead at the end of the day with minimal use. It's maintaining a heartbeat for 2 push servers and fetching gmail every hour. That's a lot of wasted time I think.

On my blackberry (I use during the week), none of that happens. It just sits there. The blackberry server is doing all the heavy lifting, checking my email for me. When I get mail, it pings the phone and then sends the message. Done.

Apple I think is realizing this is the best way to get good battery life. Hence they are working on their push notification! Servers, doing all the work of receive all the various notifications, and then only sending something to the phone it's needed.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure you're wrong on this with regard to MobileMe.
I'm almost positive it's pinged from the server.
I can send an email and get the alert on my phone within a second. If it were constantly checking the server for mail, the battery wouldn't last even close to a day.
 
mrtune said:
Blackberry push is far superior to yahoo or mobileme push that apple offers. Your blackberry will just sitting there and when the blackberry server grabs a message, it will ping your phone, if it gets a response, the email comes. Not all email is instant though, but they all are push based. It's great for battery life and reliability I think. RIM has deals with the major email providers like yahoo and google to provide instant email, but other, smaller companies won't. You'll get your email every 15 minutes when it's polled by the blackberry servers on your behalf. The phone does nothing.

On the iphone, your phone needs to constantly poll, doesn't matter whether it's push or not. It's a battery drainer, plain and simple. That's why my curve can get 2-3 days on a charge, and my iphone would lose 15% of it's battery life just sitting on my nightstand while I sleep. For push email, the iphone pings the server regularly, but never opens a full connection. That way the server knows the iphone is there. And when mail arrives at the server, it can be pushed. For fetch, your iphone will simply make a full connection and check at whatever interval you set.

On my iphone (which I use on weekends only) has mobileme, exchange from work set for push and a gmail account set at 1 hour fetch. The battery will be dead at the end of the day with minimal use. It's maintaining a heartbeat for 2 push servers and fetching gmail every hour. That's a lot of wasted time I think.

On my blackberry (I use during the week), none of that happens. It just sits there. The blackberry server is doing all the heavy lifting, checking my email for me. When I get mail, it pings the phone and then sends the message. Done.

Apple I think is realizing this is the best way to get good battery life. Hence they are working on their push notification! Servers, doing all the work of receive all the various notifications, and then only sending something to the phone it's needed.
Click to expand...

First, if your battery is dead at the end of the day with minimal use you should probably take your iPhone to an Apple store. My iPhone lasts all day with heavy use and push notifications enabled for mail, contacts, calendar and bookmarks.

Second if you lose 15% of your battery while you sleep, that would be over two days of battery life per charge - but I'm guessing 15% is an exaggeration because I know with full push notifications enabled my iPhone lasts days if I'm not actively using it.

From everything I've read, tested and discovered as an iPhone developer - the iPhone passively listens for MobileMe's push notifications.

Try this: Open MobileMe's calendar application in a browser. Now open the iPhone's calendar application. Make sure they are both viewing the same month. Now create a new event in the browser's MobileMe calendar. As soon as you finish adding that event watch the top bar on the iPhone. Within seconds a connection will be made and the event will appear on the iPhone. Now drag the event in the browser to a different day. Again, within seconds the iPhone will show a connection and then the event will show it's new day. Try it again and again at any interval you like. That's an update time of less than 5 seconds - if my iPhone was checking in with the server that often, it'd be dead in a couple of hours.

The iPhone is passively listening for notifications, receives a notification and launches OTASyncAgent to get the actual update.
 
bobfitz14 said:
as far as i know no one knows about what will happen with MMS coming, if it's included in the $30/month iPhone plan or if it will be extra. i might be wrong though..
Click to expand...


No carrier in the US includes MMS as part of a DATA plan! AT&T will not be any different. MMS WILL be included in a messaging plan that is separate from your data plan. Verizon does the same thing...

T-Mobile and Sprint are different because they are now the low-cost carriers.
 
skwoytek said:
First, if your battery is dead at the end of the day with minimal use you should probably take your iPhone to an Apple store. My iPhone lasts all day with heavy use and push notifications enabled for mail, contacts, calendar and bookmarks.

Second if you lose 15% of your battery while you sleep, that would be over two days of battery life per charge - but I'm guessing 15% is an exaggeration because I know with full push notifications enabled my iPhone lasts days if I'm not actively using it.

From everything I've read, tested and discovered as an iPhone developer - the iPhone passively listens for MobileMe's push notifications.

Try this: Open MobileMe's calendar application in a browser. Now open the iPhone's calendar application. Make sure they are both viewing the same month. Now create a new event in the browser's MobileMe calendar. As soon as you finish adding that event watch the top bar on the iPhone. Within seconds a connection will be made and the event will appear on the iPhone. Now drag the event in the browser to a different day. Again, within seconds the iPhone will show a connection and then the event will show it's new day. Try it again and again at any interval you like. That's an update time of less than 5 seconds - if my iPhone was checking in with the server that often, it'd be dead in a couple of hours.

The iPhone is passively listening for notifications, receives a notification and launches OTASyncAgent to get the actual update.
Click to expand...

I agree that it pushes extremely fast. No complaint on my end. From my experience with activesync technology, which dates before the iPhone is that it always has been a bigger battery drainer than by simply fetching mail at some predetermined interval by a long shot. The iPhone for me is no different than windows mobile phone in respect to activesync. I get instant mail at the cost of battery life. Activesync works because your phone provides a heartbeat signal to the server. It's that heartbeat signal that drains the battery. If I turn off push, my battery life triples, so that is what I do. I go through the day and with normal use, my battery will lose only 25% or so through out day. When I had push enabled, it would be nearly dead. This has been the case with 2 iPhone 3Gs. My first one ended up having some screen problems and I had it replaced.
 
I have MobileMe and PUSH turned on and my battery lasts a long time. Push does not drain the battery for MobileMe.
 
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