3.2TB Z-Drive Capable of 5.6GB/s - Wow

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by Tesselator, Aug 24, 2013.

  1. Tesselator macrumors 601

    Tesselator

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    #1
    http://www.thessdreview.com/our-reviews/ocz-z-drive-r4-pci-express-1-6tb-ssd-review/


    [​IMG] - - - - - [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    This 9-page article isn't really "news" tho. It was published almost exactly 11 months ago. In it the author "uncovers" that the approximate price of these gadgets comes in right around $7 per GB. This places it in the enterprise and datacenter arena so I thought maybe not so many people here have heard about it yet. At least I haven't seen it mentioned. Eleven months later I dunno if the price has changed or not tho. I guess it would be easy enough to look up these days. :)
     
  2. handheldgames macrumors 6502a

    handheldgames

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  3. Tesselator thread starter macrumors 601

    Tesselator

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    #3
    I don't care about Sandforce myself but the price kills it for me. Same with that other 2.5GB/s card some users keep posting. $7,000 for a 1TB "RAM Drive" is too high for me. I might consider $800 which would be 80¢ per gig, but not more than that. Maybe a bunch of rich enthusiasts will start buying these and like SSDs the prices will normalize. :)
     
  4. Korican100 macrumors 6502a

    Korican100

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    #4
    why is sandforce based bad?
     
  5. Tesselator thread starter macrumors 601

    Tesselator

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    #5
    In the interim until someone goes techy on this I'll say: Because it uses a form of lossless compression which is a speed advantage in some situations but a speed disadvantage in others. Also some Windoze users were seeing BSODs with early versions when used on some SATA controllers, but I guess that's all been straightened out by now - or maybe not - this was posted only a 8 months ago: http://communities.intel.com/message/202727. Either way I don't think this affects Apple owners or even BootCamp users.
     
  6. VirtualRain macrumors 603

    VirtualRain

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    #6
    Premature failure of drives was another common complaint.

    Anyway, I suspect we're going to see much more reasonably priced products like this very soon. For example... the new PCIe SSDs in the new MBAir and MP are significantly faster than anything prior and (at least in the case of the MBAir) not any more expensive.
     
  7. handheldgames macrumors 6502a

    handheldgames

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    #7
    More products like these? Maybe.... An updated Sonnet Tempo SSD pro stye device with multiple blade support can't be too far off.
     
  8. VirtualRain, Aug 24, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2013

    VirtualRain macrumors 603

    VirtualRain

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    #8
    Yeah, SATA is dead to enthusiast level SSDs now and along with that goes the 2.5" form factor. In my opinion, all the top performing SSD products going forward will be PCIe and either integrated like the new Macs or offered as PCIe cards or TB peripherals out of necessity.

    EDIT: What's the story on SATA Express... It's PCIe based? But until Intel offers support in chipsets it seems DOA. In the mean time, everyone is forced to do their own PCIe implementation for SSDs. It seems like they really dropped the ball on this.
     
  9. Tesselator thread starter macrumors 601

    Tesselator

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    #9
    Yeah, PCIe based enabling up to 1GB/s per lane - 2GB/s bandwidth per port. But how can the ball be dropped when it's not even really in play yet? When were the specs finalized, only like a few weeks ago right?

    http://www.techspot.com/news/53567-...des-sata-express-for-2-gb-s-of-bandwidth.html
     
  10. VirtualRain macrumors 603

    VirtualRain

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    #10
    Yeah, but what have they been doing all this time? SATA3 was saturated 2 years ago. They're too slow to be relevant.
     
  11. Tesselator thread starter macrumors 601

    Tesselator

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    #11
    Gawd, you must really hate Apple then. ;) They're usually 18 to 24 months slower. And in the case of SATA, OMG, Apple currently is still only offering SATA II. And on top of that it looks like they will never offer SATA III or SATA Express... Ever. :D
     
  12. VirtualRain macrumors 603

    VirtualRain

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    #12
    Ha! I really hate Intel for being so behind.
     
  13. handheldgames macrumors 6502a

    handheldgames

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    #13
    Whether the pundits wish to believe it or not, it's Apple that is defining the marketplace. Luckily we will be able to keep our soon-to-be legacy MacPro's at pace with the nMP with upgraded PCI Add on's. While many here are lambasting the nMP, I highly doubt the PC marketplace leaders, such as Dell, HP or Lenovo, will sit still. From a design perspective, they will also look to change the format in fear of being left behind.

    The goodies out of Taiwan and China representing new motherboard formats as well as PCIE drive adapters have to be nearing the completion of their design cycles, if not already in first production. We have to be 1-3 months away at most.

    Thx,
    Thomas
     
  14. Tesselator thread starter macrumors 601

    Tesselator

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    #14
    Do you really think so or is that (missed) sarcasm?

    I don't pay that much attention to actually know, so I'll ask. Did Dell, HP or Lenovo chime in with an Apple cube look-a-like? Apple's Lamp-stand? An all-in-one iMac type? A heavy aluminum case like the legacy MPs? Any candy colored plastic from them?

    I guess they will follow the same design concepts they have been - and for a very long time to come. Fastest RAM, newest processors, many cores, current PCIe, latest SATA, most recent USB revision, and so on. The most I could see them doing differently is adding an mSATA or PCIe_SSD connector directly on the motherboard. I doubt they will even add thunderbolt ports over the next system revision or two.

    The nMP design has a lot of potentially devastating risk factors for companies like Dell, HP and Lenovo. It's somewhat less with Apple because of the user base and RDF. If an Apple user doesn't like a design they put up with it or they buy a different model Apple. But someone in the Wintel world would likely find that rather strange - if Dell offers models they don't like they buy HP or something different. And product versioning is extremely uncertain with the nMP design. To create The New MacPro version 2 (which is current with the industry standards of the day) is going to require a lot more engineering than it would to keep current with standard design concepts like Dell, HP, and Lenovo currently manufacture. And with no guarantees that TB will become popular enough they may just be locking themselves out with such a closed design. The nMP is already in trouble with USB 10g and SATA Express releasing before the nMP is even out the door.

    The nMP is a ver eager and adventurous design. Not many companies would stick their necks out so far like that.
     
  15. handheldgames, Aug 26, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2013

    handheldgames macrumors 6502a

    handheldgames

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    #15
    This definitely won't be "your fathers Mac Pro". Those needing ludicrous speed have already jumped off the platform with Titan stuffed non-osx boxes. Those really needing slots, I hate to say it, build a gigabyte motherboard based Mac Hackintosh. At least there Is an option. Think different.

    While I like my 2009 Mac Pro, I'm excited to see where a standard of dual GPU architecture takes us from the stock 5770 of yesteryear. With the the cross culture swap between Apple and AMD there is a huge potential for OpenCL acceleration across the platform as a whole.

    The proof of their efforts will be in the sales numbers, hopefully taking it out of the back corner of the apple store and into the spotlight. The ads in the theatre and top coverage everywhere helps.

    Now, aside from the warm sunshine, I totally understand where you and many are coming from. Expandability is king. More ram, more slots, more power . Were like the doctors working on the six million dollar man. We will make it stronger, faster, than it was before.

    Back to storage land. Bring on the drives and more power! A 3-4 blade sled will truly bring us crazy speed!
     
  16. Tesselator, Aug 26, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2013

    Tesselator thread starter macrumors 601

    Tesselator

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    #16
    I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not advocating or denigrating either type of system. I'm just saying that i don't think "it's Apple that is defining the marketplace" except maybe for their own existing customer base. No one else will follow Apple into a design like this and expect it to do well. Only Apple can get away with a design like this. From what I can tell too much work is being done on the components I named (like USB 4, PCIe 4, and so on) and by the time that (very expensive R&D) comes to market I doubt Apple will be having much influence over everyone else's form factor and design concepts - at least nothing "defining".

    The nMP is just another option. It adds variety, not definition.
     
  17. goMac macrumors 603

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    #17
    That iMac bit is a joke, right? HP has an iMac like workstation, in addition to all the other iMac copycats out there.

    http://www8.hp.com/us/en/campaigns/workstations/z1.html

    I'm not sure the relevance of copying in workstations though. The workstation market has razor thin margins and there isn't an astounding amount of money being made. Apple is the only one that is investing much R&D into workstations. HP likely won't not because they don't want to follow Apple in design, but they probably aren't willing to burn money on redesigning their workstations.
     
  18. Tesselator thread starter macrumors 601

    Tesselator

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    #18
    What an ugly machine...

    [​IMG]


    But that's right, I remember now, seeing like 6 or 8 different companies with iMac-like all-in-one offerings. I kinda spaced that off I guess. I take your point about workstations - which is part of my point as well. It would be pretty funny if other makers started producing tube-shaped workstations. And even funnier it they were all TB2 + USB3 closed designs. :p
     
  19. goMac macrumors 603

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    #19
    I've actually been surprised at how much money and effort Apple is putting into the Mac Pro. Actively going out to get developers to support it. An entire new chassis. Significant work on GPUs. Even movie theater ads. Very strange moves for a workstation.

    But also good signs. It shows Apple is willing to invest a lot in the Mac Pro and feels it has a place in the company's future.

    I'm not sure any of the other big workstation makers would make that sort of investment in their workstation line ups. I don't see HP buying a movie theater ad for their workstation line, even if that sort of move probably won't get Apple or HP that many more users.
     
  20. Tesselator thread starter macrumors 601

    Tesselator

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    #20

    Wow, how cool! This could imply a low entry price like we're all hoping for. Chant it with me: Under two kay, Under two kay, Under two kay, Under two kay, Under two kay, Under two kay, Under two kay, Under two kay, Under two kay, Under two kay, Under two kay.... :D
     
  21. goMac macrumors 603

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    #21
    I hope so. I think Apple is just advertising in theaters for brand building reasons (the Mac Pro is their drool worthy flagship model), but there is always the chance they could build a machine more obtainable by consumers.

    The "workstation standard" bits make me think that probably won't happen, but you never know....
     
  22. DJenkins macrumors 6502

    DJenkins

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    #22
    The reason they are playing ads in theaters is because this machine is more of a consumer item than a workstation. The ad looks like a car commercial. It's an embarrassing collection of all the marketing tricks in the book rolled into one. The only ones who fall for these ads are consumers. Not pros, because pros are the ones actually making those ads in the first place, and understand exactly how they work.

    Anyway, back on topic... these super fast drives sound awesome but will they actually run in any mac pro? I was never able to get my OCZ PCIe SSD revodrive to work under OSX. Best luck I had was the multiple partitions showing up as separate drives on the desktop!

    Or has something changed with the controllers?
     
  23. beaker7 macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    lol. Never gonna happen.
     
  24. peterson12 macrumors member

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    #24
    sandforce SSDs are very affordable & reliable too. I recently purchased Intel 520 from newegg - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167086
    Almost 1$/GB which is worth the buy! Have heard is very good. Will let you know my take on this very soon ;) The wrong perception that sandforce SSDs are bad no longer exists & they recaptured the storage world!
     
  25. VirtualRain macrumors 603

    VirtualRain

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    #25
    Sorry to digress on this further, but I both agree and disagree. I think the machine is clearly designed for demanding workstation tasks... compute wise, this thing will be a monster. However, Apple is wise to market this flagship computer to consumers, not only to build brand, but also to attract more buyers to the product.

    The average Joe wants the same tools the pros use. No where is this more evident than in the photography field... The number of tourists with pro cameras hanging around their neck these days is mind boggling. It seems there's lots of people with more disposable income than skill or requirements.

    The upside to the real pros is that all this consumerization of pro tools ensures a good long life for these things, ideally with added economies of scale and R&D investment that means more innovation, more often, at lower prices. There's no way that marketing this machine to the masses is anything other than a win for us.

    Now what's the topic of this thread? :)

    ----------

    I'm not sure I agree. There was a perception that Sandforce was bad, and it was well deserved. There were tons of widely reported issues with the 22xx series controller in terms of freezing and premature death.

    Intel spent over a year qualifying the controller before releasing a product based on it, so hopefully they got all the issues worked out, but honestly, by the time Intel released a Sandforce drive, anyone following the SSD industry was recommending Crucial or Samsung or Intels Marvell based products. So I don't think Sandforce recaptured much at all.

    And, what have they done for us lately? Where is their next gen controller? They are way behind.

    Samsung is the undisputed performance leader of the current generation of SSDs while Micron/Crucial have some of the best value offerings.
     

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