32-bit programs in macOS 10.15

Discussion in 'macOS Catalina (10.15)' started by milleron, May 24, 2019.

  1. milleron macrumors member

    milleron

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    #1
    Many will find it strange that confusion still exists about this topic, but I need clarification, please. My Epson printer/scanner drivers and Logitech keyboard driver are still 32-bit, and I cannot get tech support at either company to answer questions about whether they plan to update those drivers and programs to 64-bit before 10.15 is released. (All their people are either unfathomably stupid or are feigning ignorance.)
    Will 32-bit programs not even launch in 10.15 or is it just that Apple will no longer support or guarantee their functionality?
     
  2. chrfr macrumors 604

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    Jul 11, 2009
    #2
    32-bit apps will not run in 10.15 or later. Apple has been clear about this.
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208436
     
  3. milleron thread starter macrumors member

    milleron

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    #3
    Sorry, but I haven't found "won't run" to be crystal clear.
    Let me pose some more concrete hypotheticals.
    1 -- If one tries to launch a remaining 32-bit program in 10.15, will he get nothing but an error message?
    2 -- Will peripherals with 32-bit drivers instantly become totally non-functional after the 10.15 upgrade? Will they even appear in Settings?
     
  4. chrfr macrumors 604

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    Jul 11, 2009
    #4
    Nothing that's 32-bit will work whatsoever. The exact behavior in terms of user notification isn't clear as of now, but the apps and drivers will neither run or load.
    You'll either need to find replacement or updated software, stay on Mojave, or find new devices that have updated drivers and software.
     
  5. milleron thread starter macrumors member

    milleron

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    #5
    That's exactly what I needed to know with certainty.
    I'll postpone the upgrade to 10.15 until 64-bit versions of those critical drivers are available.
    Thanks very much!
     
  6. Fishrrman, May 24, 2019
    Last edited: May 24, 2019

    Fishrrman macrumors P6

    Fishrrman

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    #6
    As mentioned above, 32-bit software WON'T RUN under 10.15.
    That means they won't run AT ALL.

    So... what to do with your 2 pieces of problem hardware?

    Epson printer/scanner:
    I'd wait to see if new drivers appear under 10.15, at least for "the printer side" of things.
    If Epson doesn't update the scanner driver, then you may have to look for 3rd-party scanning software that will work. I'd suggest VueScan. Great software that works with almost everything (I said, "almost").
    If even that won't work for you, well... time to look for a new printer.

    Logitech keyboard:
    Try using the keyboard WITHOUT the Logitech software. It may work anyway. If you need to, you might be able to re-assign key functions with the Keyboard pref pane.
    If it stops working and there's no apparent way to fix it (with software)... might be time to look for a replacement.

    Sorry if this isn't much help, but Apple isn't going to make this transition (from 32-bit to 64-bit) all that easy...
     
  7. milleron thread starter macrumors member

    milleron

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    #7
    The Logitech keyboard probably won't work because it's wireless and requires a piece of software called Logitech Control Center to connect.

    However, both Logitech and Epson have supported their software respectably heretofore, so I expect them to update their drivers -- even though their email tech support guys don't seem to have a clue. If they haven't done that before 10.15 is released, I'll delay the upgrade on the supposition that they'll have new 64-bit drivers soon.
    But, just in case, I have a query pending at Vuescan about 64-bit addressing in their program.
    Thanks for the tips.
     
  8. chown33 macrumors 604

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    #8
    I just downloaded the LCC 3.9.8 release from here:
    https://support.logitech.com/en_us/software/logitech-control-center-for-macintosh-os-x

    I then checked what the executable was for their installer.app, and it's 64-bit. I also checked the Keyboard Chooser.app embedded within that Installer.app's bundle, and it's also 64-bit.

    I didn't check anything in the bundled mpkg, because I didn't feel like spending that much time on it.

    So maybe Logitech has already provided 64-bit drivers, but their email tech support people don't realize it. Or somehow the message is getting lost or garbled.
     
  9. milleron thread starter macrumors member

    milleron

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    #9
    My info on the Logitech elements comes from the System Info/Software report in the "64-bit" column, so your findings are encouraging but a little confusing.
     
  10. chown33, May 24, 2019
    Last edited: May 24, 2019

    chown33 macrumors 604

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    #10
    Please post exactly what you see (screenshot). Make sure it includes the version number of the relevant software.

    EDIT
    You should probably post the exact model of printer/scanner and keyboard you're using. Details are important when looking into drivers and alternatives.
     
  11. Fishrrman macrumors P6

    Fishrrman

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    Feb 20, 2009
    #11
    OP wrote:
    "The Logitech keyboard probably won't work because it's wireless and requires a piece of software called Logitech Control Center to connect."

    Are you absolutely, positively certain about that?
    That means ... have you tried to use the keyboard WITHOUT Logitech control center?

    WHY I asked.
    I've used Logitech wireless mice for years and years, and I've NEVER used the Logitech control center software.
    My Logitech mice work fine without it.
    I'll bet the keyboard will work as well (or at least, "mostly work").
     
  12. milleron thread starter macrumors member

    milleron

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    #12
    Chown33, you're absolutely right!

    When I finally get the report from System Info/Software (it takes a LONG time to generate and often times out), I click the "64-bit" column header to sort the list. I never looked at the very lengthy "64-bit Yes" portion of the report, only at the much shorter "64-bit No" portion at the top because that was all I was concerned about. That's where I found all the entries for the keyboard and printer programs.
    But when you tested some of them and found them to be 64-bit, I examined the rest of the report where I found all those programs listed again as 64-bit.
    It turns out that the Software report seems to include all the programs that have been installed, even when they've been updated, so, for me at least, it was very misleading regarding problematic 32-bit programs. I discovered several that I don't mind losing and a couple that required buying new versions on the App Store. The only things left to remedy are the MS Office programs, and I'll take care of that with a 365 subscription that I'll activate after macOS 10.15 has been installed.
    Thanks again for suggesting that those drivers might already be 64-bit -- saved the day and made my day.
     
  13. gilby101 macrumors regular

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    Tasmania
    #13
    Sadly, there is every incentive for printer/scanner producers to NOT update to 64-bit. It is going to be a big problem with 10.15.

    Canon have already stopped supporting my scanner with 10.14. Vuescan works, of course, as does the Canon software running in a Windows virtual machine.
     
  14. milleron thread starter macrumors member

    milleron

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    #14
    Vuescan has been 64-bit since 2010! Canon's decision is customer-hostile and perhaps even unethical.
    It has nothing to do with "bitness," but after 23 years of laser and inkjet HP printers, I bought an Epson in 2013 for the more-economical ink. It turned out that the best reason for switching, however, was that after a quarter century of constant cussing at crappy HP printer software, I had a printer/scanner that always just works. HP has always-buggy software. Canon won't keep theirs up to date. Epson's is flawless. For me, software has become a prime consideration in choosing a printer.
     
  15. gilby101 macrumors regular

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    #15
    The System Info -> Software -> Applications list is not a complete check on 64/32-bit. I believe it checks the main executable inside each app bundle and reports that. But it does not check the other executable components inside the app bundle. So you can have an app which is mixed 64 and 32-bit, but reported by System Info as 64-bit.

    When you start such a mixed app for the first time, macOS will give its warning about future compatibility.

    You can get a more complete check with https://eclecticlight.co/32-bitcheck-archichect/ which does a full scan inside each app.
     
  16. coolfactor macrumors 601

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    Jul 29, 2002
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    Vancouver, BC CANADA
    #16
    Yup, as Fishrrman said, you don't need that clunky keyboard software for your keyboard to work. It should have worked the moment you plugged it in! But maybe there are some non-standard features that may not work?

    For your printer, you quite often don't need the clunky Epson (or any brand of printer) software, either, except to power specialty features. You can usually install the open-source drivers.

    Read about that here:
    http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net

    and here:
    https://www.cups.org

    You'll notice these drivers are 64-bit only, so they're ready for you.
     
  17. Nermal Moderator

    Nermal

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    #17
    Current versions of the OS already require 64-bit drivers; this requirement came along a few years ago, so unless your current OS is more than a few years old then you'll already have 64-bit drivers.

    The change in the next version is only for apps.
     
  18. gilby101 macrumors regular

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    Tasmania
    #18
    I think @milleron and others were using the term 'drivers' in a fairly loose way to mean the bundle of software needed for expected functionality. This would include the apps (which may be 32-bit) as well as any kexts, etc. which are already 64-bit.
     
  19. zorinlynx macrumors 603

    zorinlynx

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    #19
    Hopefully Apple will support Mojave for a while. I can see many people being unable to upgrade because they're running older software and drivers.
     
  20. VMukhtarov macrumors regular

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  21. CTHarrryH macrumors 68000

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    Jul 4, 2012
    #21
    I’m surprised that companies like Epson don’t update their software. It isn’t the hardest thing to do. I know they want you to buy new but I trust companies that update more. This requirement isn’t a surprise
     
  22. KoolAid-Drink macrumors 65816

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    Sep 18, 2013
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    California
    #22
    Google Earth Pro (the latest downloadable version) still has a 32-bit component, although the main application "wrapper" is 64-bit. Got a warning in Mojave about running GEP, so I'm guessing Google will need to update GEP before 10.15 goes live this fall.
     
  23. J.Gallardo, Jun 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019

    J.Gallardo macrumors regular

    J.Gallardo

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    Spain
    #23
    Beyond drivers, which seem to be resolved, this is going to be problematic, as I don't feel strange that almost every mac user has a favourite app in 32bits. Even supported software could be lazy and late at taking every component to 64bits (Apple is being). And abandoned -but useful- apps could turn completely unusable.
    Of course, there's the virtualisation way... It seems indirect and messy to me. Being prog. ignorant, I wonder if it's so difficult to develop a more specific way or program to keep using 32bits apps.
    Apple made a much more incredible effort with "Rosetta"... and there's software to emulate 16bits DOS hardware... right now for your mac...
    This is a question to skilled programmers:
    So difficult to translate on the go, or manage a 32bit app on a 64bit system?
    Really?
    (I think Apple tries to hurry developers, but I bet there'll be a third party utility - if not Apple's- for 10.15 since day one).
     
  24. Nermal Moderator

    Nermal

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    #24
    That's something I actually asked a while ago, over in this thread. It sounds like converting existing apps without source is tricky, so virtualisation is probably the way to go.
     
  25. LK LAW macrumors member

    LK LAW

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    May 30, 2016
    #25
    Apple introduced 64bit support in 10.4, took them long enough to update their code base...
     

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