3G iPhone in Japan?

[Digital Skunk]

Yeah, this was the showstopper for me too. Being a 7 year customer of Softbank now I have very big accrued discounts and I am not about to cancel and resubscribe and lose all that for ANY phone, even an iPhone.

So if I want to switch to the iPhone in January, 2009 when I am eligible to switch models again I would have to pay the ridiculous unsubsidized price which is more like 3 times the 23,040 yen one offered to new customers.

Guess I'm getting an iPod Touch and sticking with my current phone after all.

Don't be sad, rejoice that you have a mind of your own. I would like American cell companies and Apple to stop f***ing around and put the iPhone on other networks.

I too don't want to suck it up and switch, loosing all the clout and great options i have with Sprint. My fiancee isn't too keen about loosing her decade of time with Sprint either.

In the end, the iPhone still isn't the be everything phone that we (and many others) want it to be. I just wish the other phone makers would get their UI in gear.

 

[mavis]

In the end, the iPhone still isn't the be everything phone that we (and many others) want it to be.

True, but compared to what we've had available to us here in Japan, it's light years ahead of anything else. Hence the excitement.

I just wish the other phone makers would get their UI in gear.

No arguments there. I'm really hoping the iPhone will force local manufacturers to actually put a little thought into UI, rather than simply cramming as many useless features and submenus as possible into their phones.

 

[SaSaSushi]

Don't be sad, rejoice that you have a mind of your own. I would like American cell companies and Apple to stop f***ing around and put the iPhone on other networks.

I too don't want to suck it up and switch, loosing all the clout and great options i have with Sprint. My fiancee isn't too keen about loosing her decade of time with Sprint either.

In the end, the iPhone still isn't the be everything phone that we (and many others) want it to be. I just wish the other phone makers would get their UI in gear.

Yeah, thanks DS, and I agree 100%. I heard a rumor that Apple is going to require in-store activation with the 3G iPhone to eliminate jailbreaking. It's total crap they way they lock it to one carrier in the states.

So, like you, I hope the 3G iPhone is a smash and lights a major fire under the butts of all the competition so that maybe they'll improve their products. In the meantime, aside from the phone bit I can get almost everything the iPhone is with an iPod Touch and even some things it ISN'T (32Gb model, anyone? )

 

[Digital Skunk]

So, like you, I hope the 3G iPhone is a smash and lights a major fire under the butts of all the competition so that maybe they'll improve their products. In the meantime, aside from the phone bit I can get almost everything the iPhone is with an iPod Touch and even some things it ISN'T (32Gb model, anyone? )

Amen, and I agree about the comp. I would rather have the iPhone too since I have a soon to be Mobile Me account, and plenty to put on via iTunes, the two things big enough to push me over the edge. I know the competition won't be able to give me even a 70% efficiency at syncing that data to the phone and from the phone back over to the computer.

As for the Touch it would put me in even more of a crisis. Having that beautifully orchestrated, unmatched music player would cause me to want an iPhone even more, especially when WiFi isn't available, or I have to whip out my Windows Mobile phone to answer a call.

I have made a promise to myself that I won't get a Touch at all. If I consider it then just get an iPhone and ................ suck it up

 

[mavis]

It's total crap they way they lock it to one carrier in the states.

That's nothing compared to what they do here. I have three old 3G phones here that won't even power on without an 'authorized' USIM. And since it's Softbank company policy to take back the SIM when you cancel service, that means your $600 plastic phone is literally USELESS once you cancel your service - it can't be powered on, not even to recover the contents of your address book, or your pictures, media, etc.

As bad as people think they have it in the States, it's 10x worse here. Welcome to Japan.

 

[SaSaSushi]

That's nothing compared to what they do here. I have three old 3G phones here that won't even power on without an 'authorized' USIM. And since it's Softbank company policy to take back the SIM when you cancel service, that means your $600 plastic phone is literally USELESS once you cancel your service - it can't be powered on, not even to recover the contents of your address book, or your pictures, media, etc.

EE GADS!! Since my current phone is my first 3G one I wasn't aware of all that.

As bad as people think they have it in the States, it's 10x worse here. Welcome to Japan.

Absolutely, that and the price of gas which is about 35% more here.

Oh well I guess I'll keep clinging to the incredible FTTH broadband we have here for next to nothing comparatively to the states... It's one area the states is definitely still lagging majorly.

The cellphone industry here needs some major reform.

 

[SaSaSushi]

As for the Touch it would put me in even more of a crisis. Having that beautifully orchestrated, unmatched music player would cause me to want an iPhone even more, especially when WiFi isn't available, or I have to whip out my Windows Mobile phone to answer a call.

I have made a promise to myself that I won't get a Touch at all. If I consider it then just get an iPhone and ................ suck it up

Excellent points. I hear you. As for me though, there is just NO WAY I am ever going to pay the full "JAPANESE LIST PRICE" for an iPhone when it's like $500 for an 8GB model so as crappy as it is I am resigned to never owning one unless things change big time. If, for example, there is a way I can get an unlocked one and slide in my current SIM I might try it but from what Mavis is saying that's not looking to be a likely alternative.

AND, really, the iPod Touch IS a beautiful machine as you said. Not necessarily as an iPhone alternative but an awesome music player/mini computer.

 

[samab]

Excellent points. I hear you. As for me though, there is just NO WAY I am ever going to pay the full "JAPANESE LIST PRICE" for an iPhone when it's like $500 for an 8GB model so as crappy as it is I am resigned to never owning one unless things change big time. If, for example, there is a way I can get an unlocked one and slide in my current SIM I might try it but from what Mavis is saying that's not looking to be a likely alternative.

AND, really, the iPod Touch IS a beautiful machine as you said. Not necessarily as an iPhone alternative but an awesome music player/mini computer.

Even if you can unlock it and put your current SIM into the iphone --- they won't let you use the new "special" price of 6000 yen for data. So you are going to pay 10000 yen for data each month.

 

[SaSaSushi]

Even if you can unlock it and put your current SIM into the iphone --- they won't let you use the new "special" price of 6000 yen for data. So you are going to pay 10000 yen for data each month.

Yeah, good point. I didn't think of that either. :S

Well, we do get accrued points which can be used for a discount on model changes so if I can get close to the US prices for an iPhone next time around using them I might consider it. I'm just not paying anywhere near the ridiculous Japanese list prices.

 

[Podgy]

totm?

Oh Mavis Mavis. If you know for certain that the iPhone will become sterile once you cancel with Softbank....I'd be very impressed.

That's nothing compared to what they do here. I have three old 3G phones here that won't even power on without an 'authorized' USIM. And since it's Softbank company policy to take back the SIM when you cancel service, that means your $600 plastic phone is literally USELESS once you cancel your service - it can't be powered on, not even to recover the contents of your address book, or your pictures, media, etc.

As bad as people think they have it in the States, it's 10x worse here. Welcome to Japan.

 

[SaSaSushi]

Oh Mavis Mavis. If you know for certain that the iPhone will become sterile once you cancel with Softbank....I'd be very impressed.

Well, not being a Japanese-produced phone, Apple will have had to specially program that feature into the firmware for the Japan market iPhones only. I think there is a good chance it may end up being an exception to the death after contract rule. If nothing else it should be able to be flashed to a US firmware to revive it if that actually does happen, no?

 

[mavis]

Oh Mavis Mavis. If you know for certain that the iPhone will become sterile once you cancel with Softbank....I'd be very impressed.

Actually, I was referring to the three 3G phones I've got lying around here - not the iPhone. My point was simply that Japanese carriers REALLY lock their phones down, to a much greater extent than Apple is doing/will do with the iPhone.

 

[BiginJapan]

Not to rub salt in any of the numerous wounds, but apparently if you're a Softbank user already you can't carry over your mobile email address -- you'll have to get a new @i.softbank.ne.jp address.

I figure I'll deal, but it's a bit of a pain, since I've had the same mobile email forever...

Then again with the whole MobileMe thing, I shouldn't even need it...

...guess I'll have to figure out how to set up some kind of automatic forwarding, though.

 

[mavis]

Not to rub salt in any of the numerous wounds, but apparently if you're a Softbank user already you can't carry over your mobile email address -- you'll have to get a new @i.softbank.ne.jp address.

I figure I'll deal, but it's a bit of a pain, since I've had the same mobile email forever...

This is EXACTLY why I want 'proper' email access on my mobile. Every time you change carriers (or in this case, simply upgrade your phone!) you have to get a new email address. It's highly irritating.

...guess I'll have to figure out how to set up some kind of automatic forwarding, though.

Good luck with that. Another source of irritation with Softbank (there are SO MANY, actually) is that when they made the switch to 3G, they killed the option of being able to use custom "Reply To" addresses, essentially FORCING us to give out our @softbank email address to friends and family. I've never heard of any forwarding options, either. I think they prefer to pigeonhole their customers into using their crippled system. It makes it harder for us to leave. Then again, there really isn't anywhere for us to go! DoCoMo isn't much better (in my experience, anyway) and I wouldn't touch AU with a ten-foot pole.

 

[Podgy]

I hope to god you're not an English teacher.

Actually, I was referring to the three 3G phones I've got lying around here - not the iPhone. My point was simply that Japanese carriers REALLY lock their phones down, to a much greater extent than Apple is doing/will do with the iPhone.

 

[mavis]

I hope to god you're not an English teacher.

And why, pray tell, would that be?

 

[Podgy]

Thanks

And why, pray tell, would that be?

 

[mavis]

Wirelessly posted (iTouch 1.1.4 (pWN'd + JB'd): Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

Thanks

And why, pray tell, would that be?

You got it.

 

[mavis]

Here's the latest batch of rumors about Softbank and what will likely be an irritating iPhone launch here in Japan (thanks to Softbank's customer-centric policies) ...Below are the highlights, from this site:

• About the contract: In case of the new contracts there will be three payment methods: Credit Card, Bank Transfer and Automatic Transfer from the Post Office Account. No cash and convenient store payments. MNP and plan changing customers who used to pay by cash will have to change their payment method.
  I thought this was standard operating procedure for Softbank these days - I remember this policy being in effect last summer when I bought my current phone ... ?

• Inventory: Ten iPhones are packed inside of a distribution package. Each store will get about 30 of them Decision about exact amount of iPhones distributed among the stores will be made on July 4th.
  This is promising. I'm #30 on the pre-order list (according to the manager of the shop near my house) so I should be ok ...

• Phonebook migration: There will be no phonebook migration service in the stores (copying contacts to iPhone from your old phone) . Windows migration utility will be distributed on a CD. "3G Cable" will be sold separately.
  Windows-only, for an Apple product? Brilliant. And what's this about a "3G Cable?" Haven't they just called those 'iPod USB connectors' for about five or six years now?

• USIM card: Special USIM card will not work with foreign devices. iPhone won't operate without proper USIM card.
  So Apple is either making custom SIM trays for the Japanese iPhone (highly unlikely) or custom software to block non-Softbank USIMs, installed only in Japanese iPhones (again, highly unlikely) ... Sounds like FUD from Softbank. Big shock (see the "3G Cable, sold separately" above) ...

• Apple Store: Apple Stores are not equipped with SoftBank's systems, thus iPhone can not be sold-activated there. Properly equipped (GINIE SoftBank system) volume sellers and stores should be able to handle selling of iPhones.
  Unfortunate for those who (for obvious reasons) wish to have as little interaction with Softbank's staff as possible.

• There will be "two steps" activation. First step - SoftBank store, Second step - iTunes activation at home.
  Uh oh. Why do I get the feeling this will somehow require us to NOT use our U.S. iTMS accounts? If I'm stuck using the Japan iTMS (which is, of course, in Japanese only) I'm gonna be seriously pissed.

And finally, the icing on the cake:

• There are also many rumors that the selling of 16GB iPhone was postponed.
  Even though this probably isn't Softbank's fault at all, it will just add to the annoyance.

 

[xenohawk]

... My early termination fee will be $450! However, the fun doesn't stop there. Even though I will pay that ETF, I will not qualify for subsidized pricing on the iPhone, as I have not yet been a customer for the full 24 months ...

That is definately a deal breaker for me, especially when you have to subscribe to the unlimited data package and the phone for total of ¥10,000 each month for 2 years!

I'm still in contract until this October, will I qualify for the special discount then?

 

[SaSaSushi]

That is definately a deal breaker for me, especially when you have to subscribe to the unlimited data package and the phone for total of ¥10,000 each month for 2 years!

I think it's a rip that they force you into the data plan as well. I'd really primarily want to use the thing as a phone and access the web with it using wifi. It's a real combination of factors keeping me from buying one: the abovementioned data plan obligation, the lack of a 23,000 yen price except for new contracts and the fact that cancelling my contract to get a new contract would destroy nearly 8 years of accrued discounts to my payment plan.Then of course, the exorbitant non-subsidized "retail price".

I'm still in contract until this October, will I qualify for the special discount then?

Yes, assuming Softbank is still offering the discount price in October you will if you cancel out your account and then create a new one (with a new phone number). Of course, any discounts you've earned for the time you've been with Softbank will be down the drain. You start from scratch.

 

[mavis]

I think it's a rip that they force you into the data plan as well. I'd really primarily want to use the thing as a phone and access the web with it using wifi. It's a real combination of factors keeping me from buying one: the abovementioned data plan obligation ...

It sounds to me like what you need is the iPod Touch, not the iPhone. I mean, I've got a Touch and find it incredibly annoying to have to search (usually in vain) for wifi when I'm out - which is a big part of the reason I'm willing to spend any amount of money to get the iPhone. It's also why I don't think being forced to pay for a data plan is a big deal - the iPhone would be worthless to me without data! Actually, I've already got one of those - it's called an iPod Touch. But if you don't need data access anywhere but home and work, I think the iPhone would be a huge waste of money.

Then of course, the exorbitant non-subsidized "retail price".

I'm sorry, but how is the retail price "exorbitant?" First of all, it's actually pretty cheap compared to other phones sold here in Japan. For example, the 922SH has a retail value of $1100 and is a steaming pile of **** compared to the iPhone - laggy, unintuitive UI, no App Store, crude language support (one language done well + one done poorly, as opposed to the iPhone with its 20+ languages, all with predictive text entry, dictionaries, etc) ...

Also, when an 8GB iPod Touch costs close to $400, what do you expect to pay for an iPhone? I mean, it's basically the same thing, plus 1) keitai, 2) GPS, 3) camera, 4) Bluetooth, 5) larger battery, etc ...

I guess my point is, the price may be high but look at where we live. Almost everything is ridiculously priced here in Japan. And the iPhone is actually a lot less than it could've been.

 

[SaSaSushi]

It sounds to me like what you need is the iPod Touch, not the iPhone. I mean, I've got a Touch and find it incredibly annoying to have to search (usually in vain) for wifi when I'm out - which is a big part of the reason I'm willing to spend any amount of money to get the iPhone. It's also why I don't think being forced to pay for a data plan is a big deal - the iPhone would be worthless to me without data! Actually, I've already got one of those - it's called an iPod Touch. But if you don't need data access anywhere but home and work, I think the iPhone would be a huge waste of money.

Well, I didn't say I would NEVER find the need to use data I would just be willing to pay for the packets I DO use rather than being forced into an expensive all-you-can-use data plan. I don't see why this is not an option.

I'm sorry, but how is the retail price "exorbitant?" First of all, it's actually pretty cheap compared to other phones sold here in Japan. For example, the 922SH has a retail value of $1100 and is a steaming pile of **** compared to the iPhone - laggy, unintuitive UI, no App Store, crude language support (one language done well + one done poorly, as opposed to the iPhone with its 20+ languages, all with predictive text entry, dictionaries, etc) ...

Several things actually, not the least of which being the fact that it is $199 in the United States PERIOD. Then maybe the fact that it apparently costs $173 to make one.

The fact that all the other high end cellphones in Japan are ridiculously overpriced is no excuse to gouge us for the iPhone as well, sorry.

Also, when an 8GB iPod Touch costs close to $400, what do you expect to pay for an iPhone? I mean, it's basically the same thing, plus 1) keitai, 2) GPS, 3) camera, 4) Bluetooth, 5) larger battery, etc ...

As far-fetched as it seems I'm still hoping to see some price drops on the Touch. But anyway, Steve Jobs never advertised a global $199 price on the 8GB iPod Touch when he announced the product like he did with the iPhone.

I guess my point is, the price may be high but look at where we live. Almost everything is ridiculously priced here in Japan. And the iPhone is actually a lot less than it could've been.

Actually, I think we both agree that it IS 100% a case of where we live. We are getting entirely gouged and it's no excuse just to say "that's just the way it is". The Japanese need to know it doesn't have to be this way and the industry needs serious reform.

 

[Snowshiro]

Actually, I think we both agree that it IS 100% a case of where we live. We are getting entirely gouged and it's no excuse just to say "that's just the way it is". The Japanese need to know it doesn't have to be this way and the industry needs serious reform.

Actually, I don't think it's a case of where you live. I think it's a case of where you lived before.

I'm assuming from your avatar that you're American. What you don't usually appreciate is that in America, practically everything is cheaper than most other developed countries. You've had it better than everyone else for years, and when you leave your own country you suddenly find out what it's like to live in the rest of the world. If you'd come from somewhere like the UK, you wouldn't find Japanese pricing particularly unusual. In fact in many respects it's often cheaper.

 

[SaSaSushi]

I'm assuming from your avatar that you're American. What you don't usually appreciate is that in America, practically everything is cheaper than most other developed countries. You've had it better than everyone else for years, and when you leave your own country you suddenly find out what it's like to live in the rest of the world. If you'd come from somewhere like the UK, you wouldn't find Japanese pricing particularly unusual. In fact in many respects it's often cheaper.

I am indeed American. I've been here in Japan for 15 years and I am aware that with a few minor exceptions everything is more expensive in Japan. I know that we have it comparatively cheap in the states as opposed to most of the world but it does not excuse the Japanese cell carriers from charging ridiculously inflated (as in several times the cost of construction) retail prices for cellphones. If that is the case in the UK as well I'd say the same thing for the British carriers.