466MHz G4!! (I need an IDE PCI card for it!!)

Discussion in 'PowerPC Macs' started by poiihy, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. poiihy, Feb 17, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015

    poiihy macrumors 68020

    poiihy

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    #1
    Last weekend when we went to the other house I got the 466MHz G4 on the internet! I connected an iPhone to my MBP through Wi-Fi and the MBP to the G4 through Ethernet! (the Internet sharing didnt work with the iPhone USB for some reason and bluetooth didn't want to work) And for the first time in years this G4 has connected to the internet! :D So I tested TenFourFox7400 and Safari 4 and Camino and OmniWeb... The machine choked on TenFourFox! I could barely get anywhere at all. Safari and Camino ran better but they all still lagged, especially on the Javascript. Javascript choked the poor G4 :( . And if you turn it off then the websites b**ch about it and want you to turn it on :p . So browsing was very difficult and slow on this machine, nearly unusable. That's no problem though as this machine is only really used for file storage and organizing and scanning, and (almost) never connected to the internet.

    I got some new games working on it: Amadaeus's Minecraft, Bitfighter 019d. Previously I got Mars Explorer 2.22, Deimons Rising and Otto Matic™, but didnt have internet access that time. Mars Explorer 2.22 ran quite well... butter than 1.98, but it requires an internet connection to download the maps to play whereas 1.98 has the maps built in. When I got 2.22 working I downloaded some maps (I downloaded all this stuff for the machine at the library) and loaded them locally. This time I had internet connection and could join games and play it!
    Deimons Rising and Otto Matic™ work well of course.
    Bitfighter 019d ran surprisingly well, although had many lag spikes and switching menus took a while.
    Minecraft... well... worked.... but of course... LAA-AAA-A-A-AG! (lag sheep). yeah I got about 0-1 fps or 5-10 fps. I connected to keaton's server and that worked! Server ran better than singleplayer as in singleplayer the server is hosted locally and chokes the system. Amadaeus's AppleScript sets Minecraft to use a maximum of 1GB (default) so it would choke the system as it used more; I couldn't find how to edit it and set the maximum to 384mb. When I didnt have Java updated and the script crashed there was an "edit" button that opened the script in the editor, but after I updated it the script app always worked and I couldn't edit it. Now about the graphics of Minecraft... it rendered kind-of... weird... kind of bleachy and liney and... I don't know how to describe it... it's not very bad but it is just some artifacts. Probably the Rage128Pro doesn't render it well (in Mars Explorer 2.22 it also didnt render the green laser aim thing right, it shot through the vehical when it was supposed to only be in front). As for Bitfighter, it rendered that... more pixelly, like the older versions of Bitfighter and the original ZAP. when it's supposed to be smooth lines. No problem though.

    I used this connection to update all the software on the machine. (I had recently installed a fresh installation and was cleaning up everything on it and dumping the old OS).
    The machine has 3 hard drives: 30GB Maxtor drive (7200rpm), 160GB Maxtor drive (5400rpm) (limited to 128gb :( ), and 40GB Western Digital drive (5400rpm). I don't remember the exact model numbers of these. The 40GB drive I put in recently in the zippy bay. The two Maxtors were always there as far as I can remember, and they are in two bays on the bottom connected to the ATA bus controller there.
    I tested each drive with SMARTutility. The 30GB was found with a massive amount of errors and SMARTutility said it was failing. Also, when I first launched SMARTUtility, a very weird thing happened. When I first launched it it lagged a bit and i heard 3 loud clicks or so (like a clicking of a bad hard drive) and then SMARTutility said there was no drives. On second launch everything went correct.
    I installed a new installation of Tiger on the WD 40GB after I put it in (this was a while ago); just last weekend I transferred everything in place and bla bla... The 30GB drive had the original OS installation, and the 160GB had some crap stored in it that I transferred to my 2TB through ethernet to my MBP to the drive (more about this later). After I transferred all the crap I erased it.
    Later I used Xbench and tested each drive. The fastest was the 160GB Maxtor, about 50Mbyte/s or something like that. The other two were much slower, about 16 or 20 Mbite/s. The 30GB was a little faster than the 40GB because it was a 7200rpm high-performace drive.
    Because of this I transferred the OS to the 160GB Maxtor from the 40GB WD with CCC and erased the old.
    Then I transferred all stuff from the 30GB Maxtor to the new install and erased the old.
    I installed Leopard on the 30GB Maxtor from my MBP. And for the first time, it ran Leopard!
    Leopard was very very sluggish, graphics were glitchy, animations were snails, and the CPU was constantly %100 when not doing anything. I didnt play much with this as I didnt have time.
    One time the Dock glitched when I was trying to move something somewhere on it. Trashcan moved itself to the other side of a folder, finder was behind another icon, and some translucent item was floating above it. It was all frozen and I had to restart.

    I couldn't connect to the MacBook Pro from the G4 (for file sharing) but I could connect to the G4 from the MBP, so this is how I did all the transfers. This was probably an incompatibility of Tiger and Yosemite; in Leopard I could connect to the MBP but it was unstable and kept breaking when I tried the Internet.
    So to transfer files from the G4 to the external HD I mounted the G4 volume on the MBP through file sharing, and then dragged the files from the mounted server to the external drive. The data went through the ethernet, through the MBP, out the USB to the drive. The mounted "servers" (volumes) do not appear in disk utility so I had to manually copy files with cursor. I wanted to make a disk image of the volume but I couldn't.

    Well that's about it I think, if i'm not forgetting anything.
    I need an IDE PCI card to access the full 160GB of that drive, so I'd probably get a card with both IDE and SATA to fit new hard drives. Can someone recommend me a cheap PCI card and tell me what will and won't work?
    The machine is quite noisy; replacing the fans should help. Are the stock fans in the G4 sleeve bearing or ball bearing? Would oiling them be plenty or should I replace them anyway?
    What is the best graphics card for this Mac?

    Here's the specs of the machine:
    Power Macintosh G4
    466MHz PowerPC G4 CPU
    ATI Rage128Pro GPU
    512MB PC133-333 RAM (2x128mb & 1x256mb)
    3 hard drives
    Pioneer DVD drive
     
  2. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Location:
    Phoenix • 85037
    #2
    Just one comment…

    In regards to TenFourFox were you running the correct version for the processor type?

    There is a 7400 and a 7450 build.

    Also, did you optimize the T4Fx profile? Or was it just stock?

    If you click on the link in my signature you can see a list of the optimizations I use for T4Fx.
     
  3. poiihy thread starter macrumors 68020

    poiihy

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    #3
    My G4 is 7400 and I used the 7400 version of TFF.
    I didn't do any modifications to it
    I don't care about doing any modifications to it as nobody's going to be web browsing on it anyway.
     
  4. ptdebate macrumors 6502

    ptdebate

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    #4
    I have one of these that's been considerably upgraded. Funny how, with enough upgrades, this machine can handle Halo at max settings, modern web pages, and even 720p playback (yes I've gotten it working!) :p
     
  5. poiihy thread starter macrumors 68020

    poiihy

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    #5
    :eek: Explain.

    ----------

    Also I forgot to mention, of the broken apple wired keyboard with number pad that I ripped apart, I cut the piece for the logic board as I was going to use it for the housing of the board as a USB hub, but after I finished cutting it off and filing it, etc, I found that the logic board broke in half! :( I'll use that board for parts now.
     
  6. ptdebate macrumors 6502

    ptdebate

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    #6
    It pretty much just amounted to using VLC instead of Quicktime. 720p mkvs (I think?) downloaded from the web. some formats don't work as well as others. I don't know if this makes a difference, but I'm running a 9600XT and a WD Black as the main drive. Oh, and not to mention the 2.0GHz CPU upgrade. So it's kind of not the same Mac anymore :p
     
  7. weckart macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2004
    #7
    Something is not right with your G4. I have surfed on my Wallstreet with a G3 at 266MHz using TFF. It wasn't fast but it didn't choke. Unless you visit heavily scripted or multimedia laden sites it should cope well with the faster processor you have in yours.
     
  8. catzilla macrumors 6502

    catzilla

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    #8
    I will add I just started surfing with a 500Mhz Pismo with TFF, works fine for what it is.
     
  9. iModFrenzy macrumors 6502a

    iModFrenzy

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2015
    Location:
    501st Legion
    #9
    Doubt the 2.0ghz makes a difference :p
     
  10. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

    Joined:
    May 3, 2014
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #10
    I've used TenFourFox a fair bit on my iBook G3(800mhz), Pismo(500mhz G3), B&W G3(350mhz and 400mhz), Cube(450mhz), Sawtooth(450mhz), G4-upgraded B&W(450mhz), Digital Audio(533mhz), and other computers I'm sure I'm forgetting.

    Granted, all of those computers do have at least close to the maximum amount of RAM they will accept, but all are perfectly useable with TFF even without optimization. Granted, without optimization TFF is slow on much of this hardware, but still useable.

    One of the best things you can do for any G4 era system is max the RAM. If it's 466mhz, it's probably a Digital Audio model, which will take 3 512mb sticks of PCC-133. This will run you about $15 on Ebay.
     
  11. MatthewLTL macrumors 68000

    MatthewLTL

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2015
    Location:
    Rochester, MN
    #11
    i am cerious is the G4 B&W running Leopard?
     
  12. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

    Joined:
    May 3, 2014
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #12
    Not yet-I'm still working on it.

    It is doable, but requires that I locate a copy of the 2006 WWDC Developer Preview to extract some kexts from it that allow Leopard to run on that particular logic board.

    For the time being, it's actually pretty peppy with Tiger and a Radeon 9200 graphics card.
     
  13. MatthewLTL macrumors 68000

    MatthewLTL

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2015
    Location:
    Rochester, MN
    #13
    I would recommend getting a Flashed PCI Radeon 6200 for that. I think the 6200 is the BEST GPU u can get for a PCI bus in general
     
  14. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

    Joined:
    May 3, 2014
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #14
    I have a 5200, but haven't been successful(yet) in flashing it. I also have an AGP 6200 that I bought for my Cube and need to flash.

    In all honesty, though, I have not at all been unhappy with the performance of the 9200. My iBook G4 has a mobile 9200 GPU with 1/4 the VRAM of the Mac-edition card, and it does alright(although admittedly not great) under Leopard.
     
  15. MatthewLTL macrumors 68000

    MatthewLTL

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2015
    Location:
    Rochester, MN
    #15
    I was thinking of getting a PCI flashed 6200. Mainly for a backup GPU for my MDD or perhaps a future card i can use in a B&W G3 or a Yikes!, DA, or Sawtooth i plan to get eventually as a Internet Sharing Server. I need at least Panther to run the Driver needed for the RT2780 Wifi antenna i use.

    Why not just buy a pre-flashed 6200? I will buy a flahed Fire X3 for my MDD the seller even said they would tape the pins prior to shipping it out and it's mine for 65 bucks plus shipping
     
  16. Intell macrumors P6

    Intell

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Location:
    Inside
    #16
    PCI GeForce 6200's are unstable in Macs and finding one that will still work at all after flashing is difficult. For this reason I never suggest using them.
     
  17. MatthewLTL macrumors 68000

    MatthewLTL

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2015
    Location:
    Rochester, MN
    #17
    why are they unstable?
     
  18. Intell macrumors P6

    Intell

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Location:
    Inside
    #18
    They hog too much of the PCI bus, chocking out all the other PCI devices. Because of this, they can cause kernel panics at seemingly random times. Lastly, their ROM isn't the best. Unless you get the exact card the ROM was made for, it'll give you artifacts.
     
  19. LightBulbFun macrumors 6502a

    LightBulbFun

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Location:
    London UK
    #19
    what about in a G3 B&W or a G4 Yikes? isn't there 66Mhz PCI slot on its own little system? or will the card still choke the other devices on PCI?
     
  20. Intell macrumors P6

    Intell

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Location:
    Inside
    #20
    It'll still interact poorly with other devices.
     
  21. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

    Joined:
    May 3, 2014
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #21
    I hate paying the huge premium that comes with pre-flashed cards when I buy the Windows version for half or less what the flashed version costs and flash them myself.

    Provided that you stick to well documented flashes with a known good success rate, flashing them yourself really isn't a big deal.
     
  22. Dave H macrumors 6502

    Dave H

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Location:
    California
    #22
    G3 B&W and G4 Yikes both actually have only one PCI bus.
    The 66MHz slot has full bandwidth, but the 33MHz slots are slower than they should be because of a bug in the "PCI to PCI bridge", which does the 66/33MHz speed conversion.
     
  23. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Location:
    Phoenix • 85037
    #23
    At this point, I am willing to pay premiums to someone who knows what they are doing. And I can have the expectation that it WILL work.

    I have an NVDIA 5200 I bought for $10 that absolutely refuses to flash. I flash it, it says it's flashed, it doesn't work. I have no idea what I am doing wrong, if anything.

    I have a FireGL X3 that maybe I flashed, but I won't know until I get an MDD or a G5 because it refuses to work in my QS.

    The one time I succeeded with minimal effort was flashing my SATA PCI card.

    Maybe it's my crappy circa 2001 PC equipment, I don't know. But I appear to be pretty much incompetent in doing this. :D

    I'm even worse at soldering!
     
  24. poiihy thread starter macrumors 68020

    poiihy

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    #24
    Ok now can someone answer the question about the IDE/SATA card? I need a PCI card to access the full capacity of the 160gb drive (32gb wasted). I prefer a IDE and SATA card so I can put new SATA drives in it. Can someone recommend me something?

    I am interested in this one so would this card work in the 466MHz G4 and is the quality good enough?


    Also what is PCI-X and does the 466Mhz DA have PCI-X and if so, should I look for PCI-X cards?
     
  25. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

    Joined:
    May 3, 2014
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #25
    PCI-X is basically an improvement to the standard PCI standard that runs at higher clock frequencies and faster data transfer rates. Back in its day, it was seen mostly on servers and enterprise-class equipment. G4 towers didn't have it, although most PCI/AGP based G5 towers did(generally all but the lowest end models of every upgrade cycle).

    G3 and G4s do have 64-bit PCI slots(save for the dedicated 66mhz graphics card slot in G3s and Yikes! G4s), which are sometimes confused with PCI-X although they are actually two different things.
     

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