newbie forum

[squeeks]

your first 25 posts go here, of course regular members have access so they can help out with any genuine problems they may come here to have solved, but it would maybe help with keeping the "OMg what should apple put in the new mbps?!!?" threads down.

or as my sig says, it might help keep the ammount of "OMG i spilt my soda on my laptop" threads down too, because we have at least one of those a day

maybe they would actually read some of the forum before starting a topic like that, realizing there are already three others on the first page

just a though, im sure its been mentioned before

 

[MacNut]

It is a good idea but it might make new members feel secluded.

 

[Doctor Q]

The Mac Basics and Help forum is intended to be an easy-to-find place for practically any question. It's OK for Newbies (or anyone else) to post questions about Macs, iPods, applications, or anything else in that forum, and they don't have to study all the other forums to see where their thread should go. I don't think we'd gain much by limiting them to this choice, however.

We have chosen not to send email to newly registered members as some forums do (we believe in sending no unrequested email), so they don't get a welcome message with guidelines on how to search, where to post, where to find the FAQ and rules, and so on. Most of them figure these things out just fine on their own.

If they search first, new members may find the answer they want in any of our various forums, but new members aren't always good searchers, or may have a new and unique question (yes, it's been known to happen!) and it's often hard for a new member to decide where to post.

We want members who post in Mac Basics and Help to get a good reception, answers to their questions, and to feel welcome to explore more of the forums.

We really appreciate and depend on the forum members who routinely answer questions in that forum and who make our new members feel welcome.

 

[squeeks]

i didnt think i would get very far but i had to ask

 

[Hankster]

The only problem is you're assuming new MacRumor members are "new" to Macs. That is a very bad assumption I think many users would be very upset if they couldn't post anywhere but some "newbie" board, talk about spam or simply leaving.

 

[bigandy]

I have suggested the MacRumors Creche in the past....

But seriously, I think it's a good idea. Many other forums I've used do that, and it does sort out the repetitive posts from teh newbs™ to the better bits.

 

[squeeks]

only talking about 25 posts, its not that big of a deal

 

[xUKHCx]

only talking about 25 posts, its not that big of a deal

perhaps for someone who posts 7.5 times a day it is not but what about those who post 1 a day or fewer.

That forum would be a right mess of topics and with different levels of knowledge from the new members as well, for example there are those who have never used a computer before to those who have used macs far longer than I have. It would make it not very pleasant to read through for both new members and long time members.

 

[bigandy]

What about a wikipedia style thing? Put a time limit on it?

So it could either be 25 posts or four days, which ever comes first. For example...

 

[CalBoy]

I'm not sure I completely understand the point of this "newbie" forum.

If it's to allow "newbies" to ask their questions, but anyone can post, then how would it differ from the current 'Mac Basics and Help' forum?

I think the controlling principle here is searching for answers before posting new threads. My guess is that these are the "newbies" you're referring to correct?

Either way, not all "newbies" are new to Macs or forums or both.

 

[bigandy]

Making other stuff read only, for example, would mean that people might actually THINK before posting.

 

[CalBoy]

Making other stuff read only, for example, would mean that people might actually THINK before posting.

You mean certain forums, like the PRSI?

Would that necessarily do anything?

 

[bigandy]

You mean certain forums, like the PRSI?

Would that necessarily do anything?

No, we have a newbie forum, a sandbox area where they can run around, ask questions, help other newbies, and post too, but the rest of the forums are read only until they've reached their minimum post count. Then they're released to graze around the whole MR Zoo, to post wherever they wish.

Doing this will make people to actually READ things, meaning we don't keep repeating the same things again, and again, and again.

 

[CalBoy]

No, we have a newbie forum, a sandbox area

Doing this will make people to actually READ things, meaning we don't keep repeating the same things again, and again, and again.

I see what you're saying now, but I don't feel it will do anything different other than segregate and intimidate.

It also falsely assumes that most new members are going to ask the same questions, when many do not.

The other forums that are read-only for the first 100 posts are done that way to reduce spam and possible fire fights.

If we are tired to responding to threads about battery life or glossy vs matte screens, then we are free to ignore them n'est-ce pas?

 

[atszyman]

No, we have a newbie forum, a sandbox area where they can run around, ask questions, help other newbies, and post too, but the rest of the forums are read only until they've reached their minimum post count. Then they're released to graze around the whole MR Zoo, to post wherever they wish.

Doing this will make people to actually READ things, meaning we don't keep repeating the same things again, and again, and again.

So essentially we'd end up with duplicate threads for almost every topic in the newbie forum as they attempt to reach the minimum post count, and once released to the wild they can immediately double their post count by posting the same replies in the duplicate threads?

It would almost be better if for your first 5-10 posts you were not allowed to start another thread. You could search for similar answers to your questions or PM a longstanding user/mod if you have a question that you can't seem to find via searching. If the other user/mod cannot find another similar thread then either the new thread ban can be lifted for that question, or a thread can be started on their behalf.

But even this probably won't accomplish much. Who hasn't started at least one duplicate thread because their searches turned up no suitable matches for some reason or another?

Or maybe it should be like an RPG fetch quest: Before you can post you must complete five searches for often duplicated topics, kind of a mini tutorial/quiz.

 

[PlaceofDis]

So essentially we'd end up with duplicate threads for almost every topic in the newbie forum as they attempt to reach the minimum post count, and once released to the wild they can immediately double their post count by posting the same replies in the duplicate threads?

It would almost be better if for your first 5-10 posts you were not allowed to start another thread. You could search for similar answers to your questions or PM a longstanding user/mod if you have a question that you can't seem to find via searching. If the other user/mod cannot find another similar thread then either the new thread ban can be lifted for that question, or a thread can be started on their behalf.

But even this probably won't accomplish much. Who hasn't started at least one duplicate thread because their searches turned up no suitable matches for some reason or another?

this would require two things:

1. a much better search
2. more mod work.

at least the second factor makes this not viable at all, especially considering the sheer amount of people on these forums.

 

[xUKHCx]

No, we have a newbie forum, a sandbox area where they can run around, ask questions, help other newbies, and post too, but the rest of the forums are read only until they've reached their minimum post count. Then they're released to graze around the whole MR Zoo, to post wherever they wish.

Doing this will make people to actually READ things, meaning we don't keep repeating the same things again, and again, and again.

I fail to see a.) the problem, b.) how this solves a problem. Surely that forum will just be a mish-mash of "newbie" problems ranging from servers to powerbook help to applications to I spilled xxx threads. These are best suited to the subforums that are appropriate.

SPM a longstanding user/mod if you have a question that you can't seem to find via searching. If the other user/mod cannot find another similar thread then either the new thread ban can be lifted for that question, or a thread can be started on their behalf.

This will be very bad if implemented, I am not going to deal with specific questions PM'd to me let alone bother the admins to sort out the appropriate permissions for the users. Nightmare.

When I first joined I was intimidated to post let alone start a new thread, if I was penned in with the other "newbies" then maybe I would've posted more to begin with but then once let out I would feel intimidated again.

I still fail to see the exact problem.

 

[bigandy]

I was going to suggest a block on starting threads, but then people start posting in threads that haven't been active for years, and dredging up things no longer relevant.

And why would it be a problem with duplicate threads in a newbie forum? Newbies post duplicate threads everywhere else, without looking for a solution anyway, so we'd just be tidying them in to one place. Yeah, not all newbies do this, but the vast majority seem to.

It would also stop the flaming from other members who know how to use the 'search before post' initiative.

CalBoy, I know that some forums have limits for certain reasons, but that's not my point. My point was that forums other than the Newbie one would be read only to newbies specifically so they could still, despite being in their area, SEARCH and READ before posting something that MIGHT have been previously discussed and resolved.

 

[atszyman]

This will be very bad if implemented, I am not going to deal with specific questions PM'd to me let alone bother the admins to sort out the appropriate permissions for the users. Nightmare.

Which is why the new thread ban was only for something like 5 posts. How many new threads per day are started by users with less than 5 posts? (not counting spam)


Of course that does nothing about the "perceived problem" since I'm willing to bet that the majority of the duplicate threads are from users who've already exceeded their 5 posts...

Would there maybe be a method to tie the number of threads you can start to your post count for newbies? Give them one to start off with, and they can start another after every 5 posts until they reach 25 at which point the restriction is removed.

Or we can just leave it as is and have other users respond with search results in duplicate threads as usual and try to shame the non-searchers into searching before thread starting...

 

[MacNut]

Would there maybe be a method to tie the number of threads you can start to your post count for newbies? Give them one to start off with, and they can start another after every 5 posts until they reach 25 at which point the restriction is removed.

That would raise the number of spam posts.

 

[atszyman]

That would raise the number of spam posts.

I would bet that it would raise the number of spam posts no more than the 500 post Avatar limit.

 

[MacNut]

It is easier to spam 5 than to spam 500. If they have to post 5 posts to start a new thread they will just post useless stuff defeating the purpose.

The only good thing I can see out of a Newb Playground is that older members could look in there and answer questions easier. The down side is that it secludes new members from other topics in the site.

 

[Eraserhead]

The only thing you can do is to get the newbie threads "approved" by a mod, but that requires a lot more moderators (and it sounds like the world dullest task).

IMO this is a solution looking for a problem.

The best thing to do is to make sure all the threads giving help are easily accessible to newbies so they don't post stuff that's already been answered elsewhere, and that Guides are created for common questions.

 

[CalBoy]

CalBoy, I know that some forums have limits for certain reasons, but that's not my point. My point was that forums other than the Newbie one would be read only to newbies specifically so they could still, despite being in their area, SEARCH and READ before posting something that MIGHT have been previously discussed and resolved.

But that also implies that only new members will have a problem with spilt soda (for example).

From what I've seen, there have been members with more than 50 posts who have made threads about that, and about questions regarding battery life, etc.

Their questions would be answered the same as any "newbie's" correct? So why separate?

Granted the correlation between those types of questions and being a "newbie" are higher, but it isn't going to happen every time.

Furthermore, not every "newbie" wants to participate in those discussions. What if they want to post on front page stories? In the Community Discussion? In the gaming section? In the collectors' section?

IMO this is a solution looking for a problem.

I would mostly agree, except that the rampant number of repetitive threads is actually a problem (albeit its gravity is in question).

This very problem has been discussed many times, and each time a slightly different solution is suggested, but no matter what, it produces unwanted side effects.

 

[bigandy]

IMO this is a solution looking for a problem.

I utterly disagree. In the past year I've seen an explosion in the number of repetitive posts, something that could easily be solved with something like this.

But that also implies that only new members will have a problem with spilt soda (for example).

From what I've seen, there have been members with more than 50 posts who have made threads about that, and about questions regarding battery life, etc.

Their questions would be answered the same as any "newbie's" correct? So why separate?

Granted the correlation between those types of questions and being a "newbie" are higher, but it isn't going to happen every time.

Furthermore, not every "newbie" wants to participate in those discussions. What if they want to post on front page stories? In the Community Discussion? In the gaming section? In the collectors' section?

Are you serious? Because stepping newbies through something like this makes them aware about what they do on the forums, and in the long run, better members because of it.

People who've been members long enough to have seen at least two "search, godddamn it" posts and haven't taken it in, well they're just asking for a flaming when they post asking where the screen is on their new 24" iMac.