$499 Headless iMac?

[blakemsf]

Take my Credit Card Steve!!!

Sign me up for one headless iMac Express or whatever it is going to be called. I currently have windoze pcs but always wanted a mac but couldn't see paying that much for one when I just like to have one to play. I thought about buying a used one but they are expensive for being used. I will still probably use windoze but I may be more dependent on mac after I use this for a while

PS Just bought my first iPod too!!

 

[jettredmont]

The base model starting it at 500, any reasonable (minimum to run panther/tiger) would end up atleast at 600 (with out a monitor).

I suspect the BTO options would be all but completely nonexistent. Maybe RAM and Airport and Bluetooth. That's it. If you have an iCabod, you've got the same thing as every other iCabod customer.

Ref: eMac vs other Mac BTO options. Virtually none.

There is no entry level monitor from apple anyway.

Any monitor will do. Apple will sell third-party monitors via their store, most likely, but the majority of iCabod customers will be buying to replace old Windows PCs and already have a monitor of some fashion. The rest would be well serviced by a $300 cut-rate LCD panel or a $99 CRT from any of a half-dozen manufacturers.

I tried to hook up my powerbook with a cheap 200$ monitor, result was just hopeless graphics (worse than windows).

Well, I wouldn't expect the video quality to be any better than it was with the Windows box on the same monitor, but it's a bit odd that it was worse, unless you damaged the CRT in the shuffle. Personally, I had a rather old 19" Trinitron monitor hooked up to my Mac and PC at home via KVM, and I certainly didn't see any quality difference between the two!

IMHO, if the screen quality of a cheap CRT bothers you, the iCabod isn't aimed at you as a consumer anyway. This isn't a graphics professional's computer. That's what the PowerMac line is there for.

The botom line is that people will have to spend close to atleast 850 (computer+a decent monitor) bucks and get an half baked solution (with a very uncertain future) and would rather spend couple of hundred more and get a imac if they want a mac!

$800 eMac = $800.
$500 iCabod + existing monitor = $500.
$500 iCabod + $99 monitor = $600.
$500 iCabod + $350 LCD monitor = $850, but compares more to iMac in terms of form factor than eMac.

No $500 computer on the market will appeal to someone looking for a machine which is well-designed and which has a solid future (does that even really matter to anyone?). Yet, there is a large body of people who "foolishly" buy the $500 Sams Club Special, for two simple reasons: it claims it will do what they want to do right now (email, web, photo cataloging), and it's cheap. With OS X and iLife behind it, the $500 Mac will have the distinct advantage of actually being able to do what it claims it can do (with the typical techno-phobic $500 PC buyer at the helm).

Reading through this thread, people tend to be coming from the iMac to decide what iCabod needs to succeed. That is the wrong approach. The closest current model is the low-end $799 eMac. 1.25GHz G4, 1GB RAM max, 40GB HD, no expandability ... that's where iCabod starts. Anything else should be regarded as pure gravy.

 

[kcmac]

So, IMO, for this to take off it either needs to be a complete system or it needs to have some killer feature (like a media center). The headless iMac and a monitor is going to cost the same as an eMac anyway, and at $799 that's not an outrageously priced system. How well do those systems sell now?

You are thinking too hard here.

The majority of people this would be catering to are those with monitors.
1. People with OS 9 and needing to upgrade but can't afford an e or iMac. Gradually they could replace their monitor.
2. People with PC's that could grab one and upgrade their monitor later.
3. People with older macs running OS X that already have a monitor.
4. Schools and businesses that are used to seeing the $499 Dell will now be able to consider a mac at that price. They already have monitors.

If you're someone like me, I have always had iMacs (and a Performa many moons ago.) It wouldn't make as much sense for me to get one of these things because I would have to get a monitor and I am currently spoiled by the beauty of the 20" iMac. Cost and features would not make sense for this segment.

If you are a current Powermac user you would either not want a machine with that little power or flexibility or maybe you would want it as a cheap server.

These things will have plenty of market. People have been screaming for these things. Maybe you won't be in line but don't look confused when it happens.

 

[Doctor Q]

...the Mac will attract people who aren't afraid to go against the grain, maybe even get their hands dirty on their OS.

I think of it the other way. Even though Mac users might find it easier and more fun to look under the hood (Show Package Contents, Terminal, plist files, etc.), Mac users don't have to tinker as often as Windows users do, as they try to deal with incompatible third-party drivers, DLL conflicts, spyware, registries gone haywire, etc. And that's an advantage for the Mac platform that Apple can promote.

 

[mactarkus]

Flower Power and Blue Dalmatian Fan

I've got both of those beautiful machines running Panther and connected to my wireless network. People laughed, but my wife and I believe they are works of art. You'll see them command high prices on eBay these days.

But then came the low times. Who could forget the pain of "Flower Power" or the agony of "Dalmatian?" Oh, the horror; the horror.

 

[anonymous161]

iBank. A little white box with a slot for my paycheck. Insert paycheck and the iBank will automatically decide how much allowance you receive, sending the rest electronically to the Apple mothership. Be good to it and it will dance with you in front of the included colored wall hanging.

 

[CubaTBird]

this place is like so funny, u guys criticize this and that about the g4 and other mac products or just say meh to em, then when a rumors comes up ur all "oo my credit cards ready!" its like u all wanted a g5 powerbook, but when they updated the g4 powerbooks with the radeon 9700 u guys were all "my credit cards ready!" gimmim gime gmie! lol so funny

 

[Avicdar]

iCabod

Which would of course open the floodgates for third party expansion products.

iCabod processor expansion hack = iCabodMod
iCabod expansion chasis for expansion cards = iCabodModBod
iCabod airport range extension antenna = iCabodRod
iCabod landscaping software = iCabodSod
iCabod bible study software = *you can guess*

 

[Doctor Q]

Some customers will need a monitor; others won't.

Thinking out loud... The iMac Mini might be sold in various bundles with various monitors, or without one. Catalog retailers and non-Apple brick and mortar stores might offer different bundles than Apple does: Apple might limit Apple-branded monitors to their LCD line while others sell bundles with CRT monitors for bargain prices.

How soon before we see iMac Minis at the supermarket checkout stand next to the other impulse items?

 

[rdowns]

I'm a bit confused as to why Apple would call this an iMac or any incarnation. I'm not saying this wont happen, ThinkSecret lately has had a (frighteningly good) 95% accuracy, the only issues they've had over the last year was exact dates of a few things but they were within a week or two. I know they/we're just calling it "headless iMac" but I highly doubt Apple will refer to it as such. It's using the components of an eMac and/or iBook (not sure which 75xx is in it, if either) it should get it's own name... tMac? hMac? Who knows, but we'll see.

I vote for the iHYHMNSTFU
(here's your headless Mac, now shut the........)

 

[jihad the movie]

I think miniMac would be awesome.

 

[Jovian9]

MediaMac?

 

[MacNeXT]

this place is like so funny, u guys criticize this and that about the g4 and other mac products or just say meh to em, then when a rumors comes up ur all "oo my credit cards ready!" its like u all wanted a g5 powerbook, but when they updated the g4 powerbooks with the radeon 9700 u guys were all "my credit cards ready!" gimmim gime gmie! lol so funny

Well CubaTBird, you have a strange notion of humour...

 

[ccrandall77]

You are thinking too hard here.

The majority of people this would be catering to are those with monitors.
1. People with OS 9 and needing to upgrade but can't afford an e or iMac. Gradually they could replace their monitor.
2. People with PC's that could grab one and upgrade their monitor later.
3. People with older macs running OS X that already have a monitor.
4. Schools and businesses that are used to seeing the $499 Dell will now be able to consider a mac at that price. They already have monitors.

If you're someone like me, I have always had iMacs (and a Performa many moons ago.) It wouldn't make as much sense for me to get one of these things because I would have to get a monitor and I am currently spoiled by the beauty of the 20" iMac. Cost and features would not make sense for this segment.

If you are a current Powermac user you would either not want a machine with that little power or flexibility or maybe you would want it as a cheap server.

These things will have plenty of market. People have been screaming for these things. Maybe you won't be in line but don't look confused when it happens.

I remain skeptical, but don't get me wrong I do hope whatever is released sells well. I personally hope it's more of a media center than a cheap iMac.

And most importantly, I hope Apple will actually spend $$$ advertising a computer for a change.

 

[budugu]

Well, I wouldn't expect the video quality to be any better than it was with the Windows box on the same monitor, but it's a bit odd that it was worse, unless you damaged the CRT in the shuffle. Personally, I had a rather old 19" Trinitron monitor hooked up to my Mac and PC at home via KVM, and I certainly didn't see any quality difference between the two!

IMHO, if the screen quality of a cheap CRT bothers you, the iCabod isn't aimed at you as a consumer anyway. This isn't a graphics professional's computer. That's what the PowerMac line is there for.

I think i should have explained it more clearly.
The problem is with the fact that DVI->VGA at the laptop does not scale with the VGA->Digital conversion in the monitor. All cheap LCDs only come with a VGA connection only. That is what i guess was affecting the sharpness or lack of it.

 

[~Shard~]

Well, if it's a box that's running OS X, maybe they should call it an "X-Box".... oh wait....

 

[Rod Rod]

did anybody mention bluetooth? i'd be very interested to have an apple "set top box" that i could connect to my hdtv projector and living room speakers - it would however not be very good without wireless keyboard and mouse, and i just HATE overpriced and ugly dongles.

I got this bluetooth adapter:

I paid about $16 for it, including shipping. It works great, and since it's white it looks like a tooth, and its LED is blue. At night it looks like a blue tooth, and in the daytime it looks like a white tooth with a blue light.

All I had to do to make it work seamlessly with my PM G5 was go into Bluetooth Serial Utility and modify a couple of things. It was easy.

Sweet - time to get a new mac. (My iBook appears to have gone belly up - out of warranty of course :/ )

You may be able to get that repaired for free through the Expanded iBook Logic Board Repair Extension Program.

Well personaly in my own opinion, id never want to see something like that hit the shelf... I've always seen Apple computers as high end, expensive and I guess you could say exotic like a nice Porsche. For me personaly, having a product at that price range would be like Porsche making a car thats as cheap as a toyota. Good for the company? probibly, but I think that ruins the whole exotic idea.

If everyone started using a mac, id try to find something else even though the software would probibly end up keeping me since final cut pro doesn't run on anything else.

With that elitist attitude, you "probably" won't be missed.

Besides, there are Toyotas that cost more than Porsches. The Land Cruiser costs almost $15,000 more than the non-turbo Cayenne.

As to a name, especially if it has built in 802.11 capabilities, *especially* if it has built in media streaming to a connected stereo and/or TV... why not iMac Express?

This has got my vote! I like maya's iMac mini as well.

Apple sells a ton of these, what else do these users do to add to Apple's bottom line? IMO, little or nothing.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying a $499 basic box is a good idea, but if it has the extras a few people were asking for (1.5GHz cpu, bigger HDD, Gigabit Ethernet, integrated flash memory slot, Bluetooth option, Superdrive option), Apple's margin would be too slim.

Anyhow I think the same people who would buy a $499 new (not refurbished) basic Mac are more likely than other Apple customers to be sold on AppleCare Protection Plans and .mac, which seem to be high margin products. It's just like the Dell strategy; offer a low end machine at the outset to grab the customer's attention, but sell them on a more costly package because it has extras like extended warranty and such.

IVIIVI4ck3y27 actually brought up a really good point, and I am now praying that they do not introduce this. If they do, the resale value of old Macs will crash through the floor.

Wouldn't a cheap-o model like this be very bad for the used Mac market? One part of owning a Mac is that you know you can get a good price when say offering it in ebay...

What would you rather have: 1) Stagnating new hardware that supports high prices in the secondary (used) market, or 2) Rapidly improving new hardware with ever-better price/(features+performance) ratios which depress the secondary market?

I'd rather have the latter. I am more than willing to pay the price of progress, in this case lower value for used gear.

Isn't it kind of obvious that they moved their display size to 20-inches 23-inches and 30-inches in order to have a bottem set of 12-inch 15-inch and 17-inch displays?

No.

I'd really dig a 15" Aluminum Display; maybe for $500-$600; but then again, if Apple did that then it'd take away from the iMac sales. But then again, people said the same thing about the iPod mini and the iPod.

$500-$600 is too much for even a 17" Aluminum Display, let alone the 15" you mentioned. But relatively speaking, that price point would make sense for a 17" Apple LCD, especially based on the now retired ADC model.

Is Core Image really that important for such a low-end machine?

Yes, because regular folks will really appreciate the neato droplet effect that happens when you start a Dashboard widget.

First itunes (Windownees were surprised), then the ipod (Windownees starting to appreciate the apple-ideology) and now this mini-imac: windownees will take the step. (switching to apple will no longer be a "giant leap" but a "small step")

The chronology is a little off, but I agree with the essence of your post. The Windows-compatible iPod came long before iTunes for Windows.

Hope this machine has optical out so it'll support surround sound speakers... otherwise it'll be a little lame.

Since the iMac G5 and Airport Express both have optical out, there's a good chance this little box will also have optical out. If it lacks this feature I guess you'd have to get a USB device like the M-Audio Transit.

A 17" lcd might just be cheap enough for people to get it. All together it would cost almost the same as a 17" G5 iMac, but when you needed a new computer, you would get to keep the old screen.

Now you got it.. that's what low-tier products do. They get a customer in the door. If that customer figures it's best to stick with the $499 machine, that's what they will do. If they see that going to a higher-tier model gives them value, well you have a sale that would not have happened otherwise

Heh... Considering there are 5 pages of posts already and I'm quoting you from page 2, changes are this has already been responded to..

Then please read it all before posting. We've had about ten people respond to the Florida hurricanes comment, and multiple people already addressed what you brought up.

The only thing that I am uncomfortable with is the fact Apple may initially undercut their sale of the higher-end units that generate huge profit. BUT, as we know from history, it's all about market share. Get folks on board, then sooner or later lots of folks will pony up the bucks to get a decked out G5 tower like I did.
It's all good... in the end.

I agree, but I'm not concerned about this rumored product cannibalizing the higher-end units even in the short term. It's all good.

Wouldnt a used powermac be a much better deal? A 1.25 G4 powermac should be a bargain these days and gives you total expansion. Plus you can still make that machine go faster with cpu upgrades. G4s arent any cheaper then G5s and maybe more unless moto cut prices to sell some G4s. Plus you are selling a computer at pod prices??? smells fishy to me.

Sure, a used Power Mac G4 should be a better deal these days but it's not. This $499 box isn't for people who desire to expand and upgrade their machines. As easy as it is to open up and enhance a PM G4, there are many out there who are intimidated by the sight of its opened door.

New machines would still be appealing because of warranty support.

A machine like this attracts people to the showroom. Gets you to looking at the other models. They would fly off the shelves.

This is a good thing. The low price will drive down the used mac market, and brings the price of new macs into emachines territory. With this box and a $60 el-cheapo CRT monitor you've got a new Mac that is possibly $200 cheaper than an eMac.

Precisely!

I think everybody is missing the point here...
[snip - "this is really a DVR" stuff]
There's no way, IMHO, this device could be anything else!!

Yes there is. And before you write a post with the subject "Missing the Point" you should attempt to read some of the dozen or so preceding posts about this being a DVR/set=top box. You've missed the point that posting on a board should add something new to the discussion.

Just a thot tho.

That phrase pretty much wrecks the idea that your post had much thought in it. The Tony the Tiger reference was nice, though.

anyways research before posting is fun and should be done by all

I agree. In addition to product research and fact-checking, which you suggested, may I add that it's a good idea to spend 30 seconds at a good dictionary website when you're not sure how to spell a word. AOLspeak might be alright for IMs but it's a bad idea for forum posts.

With this move, it will increase market share. I thought Apple doesn't care about market share. I don't want Apple to be like Microsoft or Dell. I want to Apple to be like Roll Royce, Ferrari...

With that smiley I suppose you're joking. Apple needs market share to remain independent. Rolls Royce is owned by Volkswagen and Ferrari is owned by Fiat. I'm sure very few people would like Microsoft or Dell to own Apple.

 

[Rod Rod]

yeah, i know, but i thought i remember hearing there were somethings produced in maylasia

My Apple bluetooth keyboard and mouse, wired keyboard and mouse (new style), Apple Pro Keyboard and Apple Pro Mouse were assembled in Malaysia. My wired Apple keyboard (new style) was assembled in Malaysia. My Apple mouse (new style) was assembled in China.

I think we are forgetting iMac Express

No, you are forgetting to read the thread before posting an idea that about a half-dozen people already mentioned before you. The same goes for iMac mini and variations on iChabod. There's a handy dandy "search" feature, where you can quickly determine whether you'll look clever with a novel idea or foolish for repeating someone else's.

Wasn't there a rumor of a screenless iPod?
Along with a headless iMac, are we witnessing the end of the GUI? Are we ready for this? We freaked when Next and then Apple dropped the floppy drive. Let's not panic when Steve takes us beyond the bondage of the display.

Okay now, that's a good example of satiric humor and much better than tales of people discussing OS 8 for hours. Thanks.

Forty thousand points to jettredmont. One hundred forty thousand points, even though iCabod would be better suited for all those poor Dells which fall victim to the headless iMac. Too bad you can't work Brom Bones into the Mac naming scheme, eh?

A million forty thousand. I haven't laughed so hard in days.

"iChabod" was mentioned far earlier in this thread. jettredmont's contribution is only that he dropped the "h."

iCabod airport range extension antenna = iCabodRod

I could almost support that idea.

 

[chanoc]

If this is true, I am ordering one with an 80GB hard drive, maxing out the RAM and hooking it up to a 21" CRT. I have looked on eBay and the 1.25GHz (single) PowerMacs go for around 900.00 +. This is exactly what I need, a cheap reliable Mac so I do not have to go to a 400Mhz PowerMac or a cheap Pee Cee.

 

[budugu]

Sub 600 = 599

Common apple you are pushing me! Too hard too fast! 500 i thought was good enough!

 

[rdowns]

Dude, I'm afraid to go there. Know what I mean?

Inevitable given the silicon used to manufacture the CPU.

 

[maveness]

Cheap upgrade path...

I'm one of those design-conscious folks who bought a Cube (with noisy Radeon graphics card). I've been using it with an Apple 17" Studio Display happily ever since, although the first thing I did was max out the RAM (1.5 gig).

I earn my living doing web design/development, and graphics. The spec on the CPU would essentially DOUBLE my current speed (500 mhz). I don't currently have even a CD writer in the Cube, and although I'd really like a Superdrive, it's not essential.

I'm wondering if I should eBay my Cube right now (high end ones like mine are currently bringing in approximately $600), and then just plunk for the the new headless Mac.

Key questions... will it be able to drive my Studio Display (early model, with ADC all-in-one cord)? Will the internal hard drive be big enough (really have to have 80 gigs going forward)? And the most important: how much extra RAM will it take, and can I use the stuff from my Cube?

I guess I'm too conservative to sell my Cube before I know the specifics (not to mention the existence) of this machine for sure. The catch is that the arrival of such a creature is likely to reduce the value of my Cube... except perhaps to those collectors who just like the aesthetics of the thing.

Eventually, I'll want a G5. But until I have the wherewithal to spend a LOT more money, it'll have to wait. This would be a fine interim step for me, and would have the merit of allowing me to continue to enjoy my current display. $500 is not a lot to pay to essentially double your computing performance, while acquiring hardware with a new warranty.

Edit: Oh, and I wouldn't be surprised if this machine came bundled with a three-month trial subscription to a new and improved .Mac service.

 

[Monkeyman1]

I remain skeptical, but don't get me wrong I do hope whatever is released sells well. I personally hope it's more of a media center than a cheap iMac.

And most importantly, I hope Apple will actually spend $$$ advertising a computer for a change.

Let me just say it's not likely a media center or a cheap iMac. It's something different. It obviously gauged to sell to Windows users mainly, not mac users. Apple expects mac users to go on buying the other Macs like we always have. This is a simple, cheap, cost effective computer designed to lure Windoze users... nothing more, nothing less. No media center, no major upgradeability, and probably no 80GB HD. It's more a companion to the eMac then anything else, just cheaper. And the name will be Mac Mini, you mark my words. They'll not put e or i in the name to keep it different but it definitely has relations to the ipod mini based on the design specs.

 

[anonymous161]

Pardon my faux pas, RodRod, I missed the single post where it was mentioned before I said it in humor. I apologize. I sure am glad that there are thread tzars such as yourself to come along and adjust everyone's behavior. I feel that most of are intelligent enough to disregard a repeated idea, especially about an object that doesn't even exist yet. Oh and I suppose I should throw in 'czars' or 'tsars' to cover my bases.
Just to annoy, would you like to be mini Tzar, Tzar mini, or Tzar Express?

 

[Sir_Giggles]

Problem with Apple is they always like to over-engineer their computers. Think Cube. That thing was expensive in part to it's design, and emphasis on form.

The uMac should be made of plastic, generic RAM, HD, integrated video, and combo tray burner. None of that fancy slot-loading drives. Make it as light and cheap as possible, so shipping charges cost less. There you have a sub $400 mac computer, great for the masses.