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4GB 'iPod Mini' and 15GB iPod

Overpriced?

I am new to the whole Mac world so this maybe a stupid question, but does anyone see any similarities to the Cube? I mean wasn't an outcry of the cube that it was to expensive? Yet today we marvle at how cool it really was.......
 
There is a term thats been floating around for awhile now known as "rocketing". The definition of which is consumers trending towards cutting no corners when spending on personal electronics, suvs/ vehicles, big screen tvs and other high ticket items. Your life might absolutely f**cking suck at times but if you have a decent computer, a big tv, an ipod or cool car they can go about everyday life with a genuine thrill and in the case of the ipod mini it only costs you $250 on a credit card you won't pay off straightaway anyhow. For those that have a modest computer and modest music collection 4 gigs is enough. Many will be attracted to the design and cool factor. Especially when retailers eager to generate excitement for this high ticket item in their store will put all 5 colors on display plus the three 3gen original models. A recessed screen and durable case may be a big reason for buying a lower profile unit. Lots of people buy personal electronics thinking they are going to "change" their life. A news editorial focused on one man who bought the $100 palm thinking he would get organized and now it sits in his drawer or is on sale at ebay. Awhile ago my mom purchased a 40 gig iPod and took up listening to all her CDs after barely touching them for years. A stressfull day at work for her is cured by this white contoured device that makes people excited about music again. Even makes them find excuses to use their iPod. Suddenly she watches less TV, goes for walks just to listen to the iPod mind you, or informs me or other family members about music with enjoyable conversation about a common interest. iPods aren't something that will sit in the drawer. Alot of people selling them on eBay likely bought a newer iPod with the money made. Furthermore studies have shown that people in their teens and early twenties tend to have more disposable income then those with college degrees house payments or family. While they may not have 50,000 jobs their earnings to payout is often higher then their parents! Would i like to see the mini at 200...of course! It will be eventually. But at this price i feel i can safely stow it in my cargo pants and not get ruined by lose change. Listen to it in the car and not have to baby it or excercise with an armband. If it's stolen it won't be any different then when my 200 dollar personal cd player was stolen in 1994. Lots of familys regularly buy 200 dollar items for their kids like video game machines almost annually then dump 50 bucks into games. This is going to be something kids will be tugging at mom and dads coat about. Mom and dad are going to tug back. Apple has no reason right now to build factories to produce a 2gb music player that could not even keep up with demand and make hardly any money. They are creating the "low" end of the market because they created the high end effectively. iPod mini...brilliant!
 
Aside from the unfortunate pricing, I find the iPod mini just aesthetically unattractive. To me, it doesn't have any of the "cultural icon" design qualities of the original iPod, or its great ad campaign, for that matter. In short, little to no coolness factor.

I was much hoping that they would take their ad campaign as inspiration for a modernist icon with big "wow" factor.

I would have bet the iPod mini would be square with rounded corners (like iPod but shorter to make it square), super-shiny but non-metallic like the original iPod, and in the strong pop art colors of their ads (red, green, yellow, purple, blue, etc).

I strongly believe that in order to justify the pricepoint, they would have needed to create a must-have cultural icon.

The way it is, the new iPod doesn't even have the usual elegant, minimalist trademark Apple coolness. It looks like it could be by any company. It doesn't look "Apple", and it doesn't look "must-have".

Those washed-out pastel metallic hues were in fashion about 5 years ago (mostly in Japanese cell phones), and don't relate to or capitalize on the cool pop art ads at all - they actually do look like something that would appeal to Japanese high school girls, but not many other folks. The white scrool wheel looks terribly misplaced against the metallic background, and the elongated shape is just iffy.

I truly think this is a huge chance missed, not just pricing-wise. To me, this looks like a makeshift product that was slapped together quickly, without much user research or a true vision. Was Ive on a long vacation while they slapped this together, or did Jobs' 80s design sense override Ive's ideas? I guess we'll never know, but I can't see this become a memorable product by any stretch of the imagination.
 
Re: Overpriced?

Originally posted by Koodauw
I am new to the whole Mac world so this maybe a stupid question, but does anyone see any similarities to the Cube? I mean wasn't an outcry of the cube that it was to expensive? Yet today we marvle at how cool it really was.......
Click to expand...
Yes but what did the Cube do for Apple's market share.
For me, it is not so much the price itself as the ridiculous way it was presented. The $250 4Gb iPod was compared to $200 256Mb players and $100 128Mb players. I just don't believe that it really will be replacing those. It may kill at the 1+ Gb market and the $200+ market. I doubt it will dominate the $100-$200 market which is what SJ said it was going to do.
I just feel like the weren't comparing Apples to.. uh.. Apples (pardon the pun).
 
Originally posted by brywalker
I know that this will probably fall on deaf ears due to the fact that I am a "peecee guy" and therefore inferior, but whatever.
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No dude, good and insightful post. I'd be happy to inter-network my elitist $3500 TiBook with your grandma's $799 beater in peace anyday. We're all human. 😉
 
balconycollapse:

I agree with the idea that consumer electroncs are getting to the point where normal people are spending more on better stuff. But that doesn't mean that the cheap stuff still isn't available.

Where would Sony be if they only sold receivers in the $1000 and up category? Not one of the three most known brand names in CE (Sony, RCA, Bose).

And I disagree with your point about 4GB barely being enough. I have well over 100GB in MP3s, and I can never think of a time where I am going to NEED to have more than 2GB with me at any time. And I LOVE my tunes. And who cares if you have to sync to change your line up? It takes no time at all, and its fun to go through your stuff to see what you are in the mood for.

I guess I am just missing the point or something....
 
Originally posted by brywalker
OK. I was just going to lurk, but I had to register and reply to this one.

For the record: I don't own 1 Apple product. I never have. Its not that I don't like them, I do, but there are too many things that just turn me off. Products go obsolete too fast, not upgradable, FAR too expensive. But that is neither here nor there.

This iPod mini thing really burns me. I was really hoping to get one but at $250 it is just out of the question. Its not that $250 is too much for a 4GB mini, its a good deal! The problem is that I don't need that much space! And neither does anyone else I know that is interested in a player. We are not going to pay more for something we aren't going to use. A 2GB at $199 would have had some credit cards blazing, at that rate even a 1GB at $179 would have done it too. That is the key that everyone has been missing in these posts. It has been about 256MB players. Well duh! 256MB is too small! With 1GB you can (on the average) fit at least 3 of your favorites bands *entire catalogs* on the player. I think that SJ is missing the the whole point of digital media players...

Replacement of the discman. There are people that gave up on the discman because they are tired of CDs skipping. These people would be happy to shell out $179-$200 to have a good 10+ CDs at their disposal on a tiny player. But instead Apple misses the mark and basically markets to the wrong people.

This new player at the current specs/price target:

1) People that already have iPods.
2) Were on the fence for a 10GB but couldn't get to $299.
3) "Mac people" that **HAVE** to have everything Apple.
4) People that care more about fashon than functionality. (Many mac users)

So they are never going to get the market saturation that he mentioned in the keynote. He wants to rub out the flash players and get people to get something better, but buy making something that isn't even the same league, it does NOTHING. There is no way they are even going to get anywhere NEAR the 51% market they would like to see.

So once again Apple fails to grab a bunch of new customers. I think the problem with them is that they are so elitist. And it rubs off on their customers. They just feel that they are SO much better than everyone else and thats why as a computer company they will never achieve their installed user base goals either. The perception of this company has to change. As well as the way people perceive it. Thinking different is fine, but alienating people that WANT TO GIVE YOU THEIR CASH is just asinine.

Why do you think Dell is such a successful company? Not that I would ever buy one, but they ALWAYS have a low end beater system for Joe Average and his grandmother. Now, if there was a G4 cube that was something like a 1.2-1.4GHz/256MB/40GBwith a 17" CRT and the bare essentials that was only $799, you can bet your bottom dollar that they would sell thousands and thousands more.

I really didn't mean for this to get into a general rant, but you get the idea. I know that this will probably fall on deaf ears due to the fact that I am a "peecee guy" and therefore inferior, but whatever.
Click to expand...

(Stunned silence. Then a deafening standing ovation. 😉 )

THANK YOU. That was one of the best posts I have ever read on this site. A lot of people have said the same sort of thing, but I have never seen it put so clearly and perfectly.

The one place I would argue with you is that I don't think Jobs is missing the point. I think he gets it - he'd just rather be a superior elitist than dominate the market. Apple doesn't want to sell to Joe Sixpack. Never has, and never will, so long as Jobs is in charge.

And that's fine. Mercedes Benz doesn't want to be the car of everyman; it wants to be elite, aloof, a status symbol. That works for them.

Apple wants to be the computer of the elite. What strikes me as odd is that Jobs also keeps talking about competing with PC makers rather than just acknowledging that Apple is marketing to a different audience, and doing so by choice. Mercedes doesn't pretend that they want to steal market share from Ford. That's not the business model; that's not the company image. Apple always sits on the fence; they won't give up the mass market, and yet they won't really give that market what it wants either.

Welcome to the board Brywalker. I hope you stick around; we could use more posters like you.
 
Originally posted by Spades
The price unquestionably is a problem. Look back a few stories and notice that Rio announced a directly competing product today too. It's 4 gigs, and it's also $249. Competition with high end flash players? Not really. It's too expensive for that.
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There's more to competition than price.

I bet the MiniPod was $199 until Rio announced at $249 yesterday.

Everybody had an iPod on their christmas list - who had a Rio? iPod is the one to beat - if they can meet the price and features, most people will buy the iPod over the Rio, if only because they've heard the name/seen the commercials.

When the MiniPod sales rate starts to decline, they'll drop it to $199.

This is just basic capitalism.
 
And that's fine. Mercedes Benz doesn't want to be the car of everyman; it wants to be elite, aloof, a status symbol. That works for them.
Click to expand...

On that note, Daimler Mercedes purchased Chrysler Corp. in order to get into the non-luxury market. They know, as well as most other companies out there, that you need to serve everyone in order to get a healthy marketshare.

And on that note I have to bring up the company that everyone loves to hate. Microsoft. Would they be where they are today if they made an OS that only works on pre-specified hardware that could only be built and purchased from themselves? Absolutely not. An x86 version of OSX would cripple the home market Microsoft has cornered. And Lindows would be a thing of the past. The DIY market is getting huge and Apple could make millions on selling stand alone OSX for those people. I personally would build *at least* 3 machines for myself if OSX was on x86. And for those I built for others, it would be weapon of choice.

But even if they don't want to be on every desktop, Apple needs to get some OEM companies in line. Their best bet would be to buy a company and have them manufacture a b(udget)Mac line. That's all they would be in charge of that way Apple can concentrate their own resourses on keeping up the Gx lines and everything else. And if those bMacs were built on a x86 platform, they could build them even cheaper.

Ahhhh, dreams.....
 
Re: Re: What the Heck is Apple Thinking???

Originally posted by avus
(RANT)

EVERYONE is overreacting to the price, and anyone calling Apple greedy should know more about the business and the pricing of new hard drives.

RIO 4GB PLAYER = $250. MAKE SURE YOU CALL IT GREEDY, TOO.

(/RANT)

I hope Apple will incorporate the form factor and the material of the Mini to the bigger sibling, because the chrome back and the buttons really look dated now. Until then, I will keep using my original 5GB.
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What are they thinking?! For $50 more I can get a 15 GB iPod.
 
$50

We have beaten the $50 difference to death are there any other truly valid reasons for not liking the new iPod mini, If it had been $50 less there would be hundreds of positives on this thread🙄
 
Originally posted by brywalker
I don't own 1 Apple product. I never have. Its not that I don't like them, I do, but there are too many things that just turn me off. Products go obsolete too fast, not upgradable, FAR too expensive. But that is neither here nor there.

This iPod mini thing really burns me. I was really hoping to get one but at $250 it is just out of the question. Its not that $250 is too much for a 4GB mini, its a good deal! The problem is that I don't need that much space! And neither does anyone else I know that is interested in a player. [...]

Why do you think Dell is such a successful company? Not that I would ever buy one, but they ALWAYS have a low end beater system for Joe Average and his grandmother. [...]

I really didn't mean for this to get into a general rant, but you get the idea. I know that this will probably fall on deaf ears due to the fact that I am a "peecee guy" and therefore inferior, but whatever.
Click to expand...

Good post. I think a lot of people, including me, sometimes forget that not everyone has tons of money to spend on computers (EDIT: and other electronics). Almost everyone I know could not reasonably afford the new iPod mini, and I couldn't have 4 or 5 years ago.

Does anyone really thinks that Apple would have lost money if they offered a $199 2gig iPod mini? When I say "lose" I mean lose, as in not make a profit. I don't mean "make only 10% profit instead of however-much-they-make-now."

Based on prices I've seen on this forum and elsewhere, I don't believe so. I believe Apple makes a ton of money on its iPods, and Steve and the other execs are making tons of money (Steve was the highest paid exec in the US either last year or the year before).

I have a 40gig iPod, but almost everyone else I know cannot afford one. I LOVE Macs and Apple, everyone I know is all too aware of that because I always sing Apple's praises.

But I do think it's a shame, like I referred to before, that Apple says its software is "for the rest of us" and then don't offer any lower-end computers or a music player that "the rest of us" can buy.

I highly applaud iLife (with GarageBand now I'm very excited!) being the best apps on the planet, and Apple computers always being top notch. I would never switch to PCs.

But it's just frustrating that they are only a high-end company. I don't think they should HAVE to sell products everyone could buy, but they sure as heck could without making programmers and designers suffer. And they would sure as heck be a lot more popular if the average person could buy them instead of being stuck with the Dells of the world. It is just my opinion.
 
my last posting on this issue

Today the new iPod mini is born, and tons of us say that it is overpriced and so on, well, look around you...

dont ou have more than 2000 US dollars on hardware? 1500 being like the minimum...take the normal guy who has a g4 (1500 + a 500 lcd)...

isnt this computer more than you have hoped for?

dont you know for a fact that it is by far the best thing you can afford?

that being clear lets take a look at the new iPod mini, 300 dollars will get you the color you like and a neat dock to put it next to your mac, picture it... wouldnt it be cool?

aside the 'cool' factor....

do you really listen to 1000 songs in a day? you sit on your computer every day, so why not add/remove 50-100 songs a day to keep yourself up to date? i think its not that much of a hassle...

functionality is key here, it is advertised as a music player, not a storage device... if you want a storage device + music player and this 4gb drive doesnt cut it then get the 15 gb ipod and get both ofwhat you need.

music is the primary factor behind this ipod, neatness is second.. you might say it is ugly but wait till you put your hands on one, you will love it, as you love everything steve jobs has done up to now...

the price is for establishing a position.. it sure is the cheapest ipod, the little cool brother that does what big brother does but is just more modern and cooler, smaller, futuristic...

249 establishes the iPod mini as the Rolls Royce of the flash (eventhoitshdbased) mp3 players, usb flash drives, firewire flash drives even though there are none..

the iPod mini is in a class of its own, beautiful in every way, some may like it some may not, but i will step aside and respect apple for thinking about making a solid product in a pretty much saturated market.

i might be wrong on some things but i know i want/need an mp3 player to substitute my discman/palm/girlfriend's ipod 🙂

im getting the gray ipod

im jumping in this bandwagon! let it roll apple!
 
Its funny too. I don't have a modest system, by any stretch of the imagination.

Abit IC7-MAX 3
P4 2.6c @ 3.4GHz
2 x 512 OCZ PC3200 EL DDR 5:4
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro @ 415/730
2 x Hitachi 7K250 160GB SATA
Lite On LTR-2410b
Optorite DD0203
Antec True Power 550
Koolance 601 Case w/CPU-200 and CHP-901 Coolers
Windows XP SP1

But the thing is I didn't dump $3000 all at once on this thing. I have been able to build it up over the past few years, selling video cards and boards and such to get the newer ones. That is really the only thing that is keeping me away from one of those hot dual G4s. They turn around so damn fast and you can't just buy a couple of new 2.4GHz chips and drop them in when they come out. (That and I am addicted to overclocking 😉)
 
Re: NeatGekko scooped you all

Originally posted by SpamJunkie
I want to be the first to point out that NeatGekko scooped everyone on this. He had the size and the price correct.

He posted it in these forums but everyone harassed him. I didn't. Charging too much for a product is so beleivably Steve Jobs that, well, it came true.

Do you think Steve will ever learn? Cube? G4s? Mini iPods? No he won't. Apple products won't be reasonably priced until Steve Jobs leaves Apple.
Click to expand...

Since I'm one of those who took great delight in body-slamming NeatGecko, I'll readily admit he was right (although he claimed 4.5 GB, which sounded fishy). If he posts any more fishy claims, I'll keep my trap shut. But I can't help wondering if the poor bloke still has a job . . .

For the record, the thing that irritated me most about his posts was not his claims, which are always arguable -- it was the snotty, arrogant tone. Very unnecessary, and very, very irritating.

But he was right about the specs, and unfortunately, he was right about the price. I never would have believed it. Steve's got balls, that's for sure. I just hope they don't get sliced off in the near future.
 
A turn around?

Maybe with all this negative reaction Apple will take notice, and cut the price! Apple did it on the G5, so why not the iPod, if Apple is listening consider this, half the people in this thread would have bought a $200 iPod, you could have had a lot of sales, maybe if you change your mind you could make a real killing with these, all it is is $50 please listen to the outcry, continue to show us why the iPod rocks by making the price a bit more reasonable.

But it does have one thing that no other MP3 player has at its size....
 

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"Fact"?

Originally posted by Torajima
The fact is, the ipod mini is ridicuously overpriced. Before the mini rumors even began, I fully expected an update to the iPod line at Macworld. Either price reductions across the board, or an increase in capacity.
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Okay, let's all try to be a little more cautious with our use of the word "fact". These are all opinions. Right?
 
The bottom line is that we are all looking at this as a combo music player and hard drive, and as such it seems the price is not reasonable for the amount of storage. But there are a lot of people who are looking for a good quality player with lots of songs that is small, light and durable. Ever try to run full out with a 30 gig ipod strapped to your arm. For these people the mini is the PERFECT product, and most of them don't even know what a hard drive is.
 
Re: Re: NeatGekko scooped you all

Originally posted by splashman
For the record, the thing that irritated me most about his posts was not his claims, which are always arguable -- it was the snotty, arrogant tone. Very unnecessary, and very, very irritating.
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He didn't start out that way, it was after 10-20 posts of 'don't be stupid, my uncle's wife's hairdresser's roommate is in Apple development, and the price is $99 gauranteed'. The first couple posts were pretty matter of fact, after the egging he staretd talking about eating his arm and stuff 🙂
 
I'd think:

1Gb - $100
2Gb - $160
4Gb - $210
Click to expand...

I think even that is far too aggressive. I think this would be good:

1GB - $179
2GB - $199
4GB - $249

The point is there are NO OTHER OPTIONS!
 
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