4th Generation iPods?

[SiliconAddict]

Not to sound overly pessimistic... but the iPod's battery life is already on the short side of the spectrum. A color screen and likely faster processor to handle it (and maybe movies?) aren't going to help...

I think I'd prefer a plain brushed-aluminum greyscale iPod with the mini's click-wheel and some sort of bluetooth streaming option. That would be pretty near perfect. I can dream...

Insert a big o' Depends

If Apple uses a transreflective display with side lighting it would cut down on the juice also there is always the possibility of them using the big O. OLEDS have been rumored to be in Apple devices for a while now. Even though, obviously, they haven't actually shipped with anything yet. OLEDS use much less power then traditional LCD screens.
As for video. If we are only talking about playing it on an iPod obviously you wouldn't need some high res 800 x 600 video file. Can you say overkill? Smaller video files are easier for a CPU to handle. My 200Mhz ARM iPaq Pocket PC has been doing movies on its 3" screen since 2000. Such ARM CPU's have become much more efficient since that time. They scale up to 400Mhz. Since the iPod doesn't need such power they could underclock it to 200Mhz and probably get some nice battery life off of the system.
That being said. If it does indeed have video out it could possibly mean one of 2 things.
The first. That its intended for still picture video out. Movies aren't in the plan at all. If this is the case then CPU speed is a moot point.
Second. That its intended for video and still pictures. In which case where I mentioned a low resolution video file would er suck on any external display. So a higher end CPU would almost be a mandate.
At this point there isn't enough info to make even a remotely educated guess. Suffice it to say Apple isn't going to do anything that would jeopardize the battery life of the iPod to the point that its useless. There is no real reason to drop a video player on us at this point. Heck its still illegal to rip DVD's so there is that whole legal aspect of it. At this point Apple's just trying to stay ahead of the pack in terms of features. They aren't stupid enough to make the video component of an iPod more important then the audio or battery life.

 

[Demon]

nah..

i doubt that it will be anytime soon. Mini's just came out. but the features sound DOPE!

 

[Mainyehc]

Battery issues...

Well, one thing I'd like to see was the ability of opting out of the "auto-charging" feature of the iPod, even in the 1-2-3G (maybe through a software upgrade)... I'd like to be able to plug in my iPod to the power adapter or even the dock without having it charging up the battery automatically! Seriously, that was something I used to do with my Sony Minidisc player/recorder, I plugged it to my stereo or used it while in bed (sometimes it's really easier to fall asleep while listening to some nice and soft tunes), and in that case, I plugged it to its power adapter... If I needed to recharge it's battery, I'd just press "Stop". There was no need to recharge it every time I plugged it to the power adapter!
If I had that choice, I'd buy an extra firewire cable and would keep the power adapter in my room (I'd turn the volume all the way up and connect the iPod to the stereo with an RCA adapter), next to my stereo, and the dock connected to my iMac... Ohh, and wait! Even cooler would be having all of my tunes in the iPod, and none in my iMac's HD, so I could play them from the iPod's disk (thus saving some precious GB's in my iMac's HD...)! Of course, if my iPod had some severe accident I'd probably lost all my tunes, but heck, I have a Superdrive, I suppose I'm going to burn a few backups one of these days...
Just dreaming...
As for the method of manually starting a battery charge... It'd be very easy! When connected, the iPod could simply have a "Charge" option in the main menu, perhaps in the topmost slot to make it easier for people with some extra menus enabled in the main menu...
I guess I'm probably over-concerned with my iPod's battery life... But I've read in some reliable articles that an easy way to extend an iPod's battery life is to recharge it when the battery reaches 40% of it's full capacity, and to make a full discharge/charge cycle, every 30 cycles. So, I'm not looking forward to recharge my iPod when it's, say, at 70% of it's capacity. Same for 100% capacity, as the iPod will take further charging cycles even if it's already charged. I'd just like, at that time, to have it working from a power source, leaving the battery alone. Is this asking too much?
Oh, and another thing... I have this strange bug in my iPod: when it finishes charging, and I turn it on, it'll show like 10 or 20% capacity in the battery indicator, but it'll slowly go up, and up, and up for the next 30-60 seconds until it reaches full capacity. It works just fine, anyway... Not that it bothers me much, but it's weird, no? Anyone else here experiencing the same problem? (it's a <1 month old 3G 20GB)

 

[Gizmotoy]

Battery technology can go a long way in over a year. especially since apple probably saw this problem 2 years ago and have probably had a battery company solving this for them.

Battery technology moves slowly. That is why there is tons of research going on right now using alternative fuels such as butane or methane to power electrical gadgets. Computer Technology evolves rapidly, along with its power demands, and battery development companies are struggling to keep up. My 3 year old laptop has a similar Lithium-based battery to that of my new PowerBook.

For example... does every new laptop version get better battery life? No. In fact, when new processor revisions come out, battery life is often worse than the generation before it until optimizations are worked out.

Anyway, back on topic, my point is that battery technology does NOT go a long way in a year, and it will be a struggle to provide power to the color screen and the faster processor color graphics, and possibly video, require. The only solution I see is making the device larger physically.

 

[snahabed]

A thought

This supposed 4G iPod is really quite a different machine than the 3G iPod. Even more different than the 3G is from the Mini. This leads me to believe that maybe Apple is fleshing out its iPod line to

iPod mini
iPod
iPod extreme

Personally, I would have gone with ePod, iPod, and pPod, but that's just me.

There is NO way in hell that a machine described here would fit in the 3G price range, so it clearly must be a higher priced range.

This is, of course, if such a machine is even going to happen. By the way, if it does, count me in with the people happy that Apple might incorporate the mini clickwheel across the line. Positively. Hate. 3G. Buttons. Big reason I have not upgraded from my 2G. I boycott those buttons. Awful. The mini clickwheel is pure genius.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Battery technology can go a long way in over a year. especially since apple probably saw this problem 2 years ago and have probably had a battery company solving this for them.

Hate to burst your bubble but battery tech, at least traditional battery tech, has pretty much hit the wall in terms of density and capacity. Li-ion /polymer is pretty much IT.
At this point fuel cells are what we are going to be dealing with to get better battery life and it’s a pretty good bet that at least the 4th gen iPod isn't going to have that. Maybe 6th or 7th

 

[superfunkomatic]

i think this sounds like a lark. forgive my lack of excitement, but why would you want to carry around videos on an ipod like device? seems like such an odd thing to do watch videos on the bus, at such a small resolution. plus, the battery life of the ipod is like 4 hours tops with a device like a iTrip, so unless they have a new battery technology and a quicker software package is the ipod really a good candidate for video.

it's like having a full colour calculator. my two cents.

 

[SiliconAddict]

i doubt that it will be anytime soon. Mini's just came out. but the features sound DOPE!

Doubtful. Mini's primary intention was to give consumers a cheaper and smaller option. You will note that the only forward momentum they've had in the larger iPods has been in a price restructure.

 

[diesel machine]

4g ipod

Is it possible to look though the .3.3 update and find an Icon that graphically represents this new configuration. I doubt it would be there yet, but osx does use a diff. graphic for each type of ipod attached to a computer.

 

[vitaboy]

I'd imagine if it has video out then it would be capable of playing video oon both a second screen and its own little two incher. I think it's a great idea - download hours of music videos, stick them on the iPod, then go to a party and hook it up to the television....

Actually, my guess is that the 4th gen iPod will have the ability to display photos, but it won't be able to play video. The "video out" port will simply allow you to display your photos on a TV screen.

The reason?

iTunes = jukebox for music
iPhoto = jukebox for photos
iMovie = NOT a jukebox for movies

While it's possible for the iPod to simply be able to read and play whatever QuickTime or MPEG movie might be in a "Movie" folder on the iPod's drag, this is not the Apple way because there is no movie jukebox application for iPod to autosync with. Autosyncing is an integral part of the iPod experience and brand.

Also, as Steve Jobs has noted, you already have portable DVD players that handle video much better than an iPod could. You have players with widescreen 7" screens that play DVDs great. Also, you might watch a favorite movie a half a dozen times at most, but you'll listen to your favorite songs over and over again. Same with pictures. Watching movies is not nearly as important as being able to carry your thousands of your songs and photos with you.

So I think the 4th gen iPods will allow you to autosync with iTunes and iPhoto, and maybe output iPhoto to your TV screen, but that's probably it. It would be a fantastic leap in functionality, though, but evolutionary in nature.

P.S. The one thing I would love to see for the 4th gen iPod is a dock-to-mini-USB connector for digital cameras that allow you to quickly and easily dump photos from your camera into the iPod. Why is there a need for a bulky and slow media reader like the Belkin? You should be able to plug a camera directly to the iPod and voila, automatic downloads. When you later sync to your Mac, iPhoto should suck up the new pictures from the iPod's drive as well as being smart enough to load pictures onto the iPod that had been grabbed from another camera.....

 

[vpalvarez]

Could this mean iPhoto for Windows?

This is similar to what I was thinking. They will nevr have photo viewing for the ipod becasue there is no dominant app for viewing photos on Windows, this would be a major trade off for windows users. They won't justify spendin the money on a devoce they can't use. Apple would have three options:

1) Release iPhoto for Windows (and maybe include it w/ the 4G ipod)
2) Make the 4G ipod sync-able with almost every photo app on windows
3) Not release an ipod capable of viewing photos.

I think option three is the most likely which is fine with me.
Maybe they will release it at the same time that Hp releases theirs.

 

[e-coli]

Optical out, damnit!!

How long do we have to wait? What's the point of having a digital player if it interfaces with other audio equipment as an analog signal?

 

[Gizmotoy]

If Apple uses a transreflective display with side lighting it would cut down on the juice also there is always the possibility of them using the big O. OLEDS have been rumored to be in Apple devices for a while now. Even though, obviously, they haven't actually shipped with anything yet. OLEDS use much less power then traditional LCD screens.

They could achieve the power savings using some sort of alternative display. Although I'd shudder to think how much such a device would cost given that current greyscales top out at $500. A front-lit solution such as a previous poster mentioned in the Gamboy Advance SP would be a possibility. They'd see some power savings there. However, you might notice that the SP uses a 1,000mAh LiIon battery... almost 50% more power than the current 3G battery (630mAh), which is also smaller. It also runs at 240x160, which you'd need to double for TV output, but I have no idea how that would affect battery life. It's also thicker. (And as an aside, despite popular belief, underclocking does not save you a worthwhile amount of power.)

It would be a significant challenge, disregarding all monetary issues, to pack all of this into a device the size of an iPod with similar battery life, is all I'm saying.

Look at it's competitors! The Windows MCE-based devices are HUGE!

 

[vpalvarez]

I bet apple is going to go from back-lit to frontlit like Nintendo did with the Gameboy Advance Sp, the solution let it get 10 hours of battery life off a small li-ion battery and the display still looked great. Now imagine an iPod, supporting about 256 colors (wayyyy less than a gameboy) with no need for any graphics work (just cache & hd stuff) and I think it'll still roll out 8 hours easy.

Lets cross our fingers..I think alternately multi-color backlighting would be a viable option if full color takes up too much battery. Panasonic does that with some of their phones and it looks great.

Edit: Maybe we can look forward to an mini iPod mini in the future?

Apple would have to have 65,000 colors to do photos. Apple would never sacrifice having poor quality photos just to have the extra feature. They either do it right or don't do it at all. Which is another reason why I think that this won't happen, at least in a hyprid player.

 

[vitaboy]

This is similar to what I was thinking. They will nevr have photo viewing for the ipod becasue there is no dominant app for viewing photos on Windows, this would be a major trade off for windows users. They won't justify spendin the money on a devoce they can't use. Apple would have three options:

1) Release iPhoto for Windows (and maybe include it w/ the 4G ipod)
2) Make the 4G ipod sync-able with almost every photo app on windows
3) Not release an ipod capable of viewing photos.

I think option three is the most likely which is fine with me.
Maybe they will release it at the same time that Hp releases theirs.

Yeah, I think Apple will release iPhoto for Windows. I have no doubt this will cause iPod sales to double, as iPhoto is another killer app whose only real competitor is the for-pay Adobe Album software. Apple can still encourage people to switch with iMovie, iDVD, and GarageBand, so I'd say it's pretty safe to release iPhoto for Windows now. In fact, the more Windows users play with iTunes and iPhoto, the more likely they will consider switching when they really how sucky the Windows experience really is.

This is great. Apple preserves their profit margins on the 4th gen iPods due to the extra functionality, and HP continues to sell 3rd gen iPods for less to the crowd that doesn't want to pay the Apple premium. It's great because Apple's revenue from the 3rd gen design would normally go from something to nothing the day the 4th gen is introduced, but with HP in the mix, Apple gets to make tons of money on an outdated design!

 

[Penman]

Color calculators.

i think this sounds like a lark. forgive my lack of excitement, but why would you want to carry around videos on an ipod like device? seems like such an odd thing to do watch videos on the bus, at such a small resolution. plus, the battery life of the ipod is like 4 hours tops with a device like a iTrip, so unless they have a new battery technology and a quicker software package is the ipod really a good candidate for video.

it's like having a full colour calculator. my two cents.

That's a good analogy. Color calculators are big business. I studied Physics and in science they're extrememely useful. Not of reveryone but a strong niche product.

I'm gratified to see this 'rumor' - I was on a thread about this a while back being shot at for mentioning video. It will be the killer portable app.

1) The mini-iPod will be the music iPod, the big iPods will be multimedia devices.

2) iPods are an extension of iLife. They will eventually be able to carry any media/data produced by the iLife suite - video, stills and audio. It'll be native - not dependant on 3rd party plug-ins.

3) As far as battery life goes they can do a couple of things. Give us a cool way to recharge anywhere (where's my solar panel guys?) - this is unlikely. Give us an easy way to change the battery and low cost/standard form factor battery packs - this is more likely but less able to put money in Apple's pockets. Give us additional battery options in proprietary factors for additional cost - I think that's almost a lock. The battery life on iPods is ridiculous given it's mobile designation. I think Apple know that.

4) They'll probably all play quicktime encodes of videos that are available for download from the iTMS. Launching the iPod now (with the cover story of it being a still photo player) allows them to seed the market with video capable download devices and then roll out iTMS with video later this year with an inbuilt audience. It makes it easier for the record companies to risk the encoding hassle.
5) Telling people that they don't need things doesn't work. That's why 'the iPod's great for music - leave it' is the kiss of death. Apple aren't that dumb. A lot of readers here are American - we're behind the curve on portables because we don't have 3G phone networks. Worldwide the coolest mobile platforms are cutting edge, broadband capable phones. The only edge the iPod has on them now is storage capacity and ease-of-use/interface. That's not enough. The iPod is going to have to take on internet capability (everyone know's Apple's frantically working on this) and video.

I also think 50 GB is likely wrong. They gave us 40Gb for music and many people (like me) need more. 60-80Gb for video seems like a sane minimum. If they come out at 50 Gb first I'll wait.

iPods run Toshiba drives. Look at what Toshiba's doing and see a little of what the iPod has to/wants to compete with.

http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/4725.html

Penman

 

[hob]

let's just take a minute....

I'm troubled. I mean - wow! A new gadget from Apple, always an exciting time, but I'm still troubled. I don't really think there's much of a market for this device (though I guess this was said of the iPod at the time). This is no longer an iPod - the iPod is a MUSIC player (which some of us use as hard drives as well) but I think it's revolutionised the music listening experience as much as anyone wants it to, and I don't think being able to look at your photos on a 2-inch colour screen is going to be all that great... And I doubt the battery life will be too hot either - if they're using the same batteries, then a colour screen would drain it pretty quick methinks, especially as some of you are already mentioning using it to play movies... that's just full on - backlight, screen usage, and hd usage all the time...

Sorry, that's just my thoughts!

 

[vpalvarez]

so who is going to buy a 3g HP ipod when the 4g Apple ipods are available?

I read somewhere that the Hp would be different in appearance but the same internals. Plus they are going to bundle these things with PCs. And depending on the price point people would be likely to buy them

 

[Moxiemike]

Wide screen ipod?

 

[Jackk]

Yeah, I think Apple will release iPhoto for Windows. I have no doubt this will cause iPod sales to double, as iPhoto is another killer app whose only real competitor is the for-pay Adobe Album software. Apple can still encourage people to switch with iMovie, iDVD, and GarageBand, so I'd say it's pretty safe to release iPhoto for Windows now. In fact, the more Windows users play with iTunes and iPhoto, the more likely they will consider switching when they really how sucky the Windows experience really is.

This is great. Apple preserves their profit margins on the 4th gen iPods due to the extra functionality, and HP continues to sell 3rd gen iPods for less to the crowd that doesn't want to pay the Apple premium. It's great because Apple's revenue from the 3rd gen design would normally go from something to nothing the day the 4th gen is introduced, but with HP in the mix, Apple gets to make tons of money on an outdated design!

Just to continue my original speculation.. Could this mean iPhoto for HP computers preinstalled if HP continues to rebrand iPods in the future?

 

[vpalvarez]

This supposed 4G iPod is really quite a different machine than the 3G iPod. Even more different than the 3G is from the Mini. This leads me to believe that maybe Apple is fleshing out its iPod line to

iPod mini
iPod
iPod extreme

Personally, I would have gone with ePod, iPod, and pPod, but that's just me.

There is NO way in hell that a machine described here would fit in the 3G price range, so it clearly must be a higher priced range.

This is, of course, if such a machine is even going to happen. By the way, if it does, count me in with the people happy that Apple might incorporate the mini clickwheel across the line. Positively. Hate. 3G. Buttons. Big reason I have not upgraded from my 2G. I boycott those buttons. Awful. The mini clickwheel is pure genius.

I was thinking something similar, with a few exceptions. Forst I think it would fit with in a similar price range, becasue it is no secret that Apple is trying to s\cut cost on the ipods including that they a willing to take a hit with their profit margin. That said it will be:

iPod mini -- Small Fitness Player
HP ipod --- just music and 3G technology
Aple ipod -- photos ect (if true) that will keep it the premium but still a leader.

 

[Sabbath]

Woot new apple stuff ^_^

Oh damn that means all my current stuff is going out of date. Seriously though video sounds cool, but a little unecessary at present I think. If we do get video like this though we're gonna need a new iapp for ripping our movies on, and maybe even a movie store?

Personally theres no way I could justify one of these new iPods by there will be people selling kidneys for them. I guess they could have a third iPod kind of like the powerbook range. iPod mini, iPod, iPod something

 

[Llywelyn]

Guys, a little logic.

Video just isn't going to happen. The people who want the ability to play movies on such a small screen are a niche market in the extreme, there is no good way to transfer movies from a DVD to a computer (and I don't anticipate Apple making it any easier--it's a really niche market) and it takes a really long time to re-encode, and I don't think there would be much of a demand for a "movie jukebox"--again, not much demand (outside of anime types). Most people sit down at a given movie for several hours and only watch one at a time--not exactly a lot of demand for a switching app or appliance.

More likely is something to interface with a digital camera and maybe display pictures. Apple already has iPhoto and there is ready demand for the ability to store more photos. Something you could offload your digital camera to would be very useful for many more people than the ability to play video would be.

So I would anticipate something that doesn't even necessarily have a video-in/video-out, but rather a cable or a port to attach a USB camera to.

 

[ianion]

you know....

Not to sound overly pessimistic... but the iPod's battery life is already on the short side of the spectrum. A color screen and likely faster processor to handle it (and maybe movies?) aren't going to help...

i agree.... but have any of you looked at the gameboy advance sp?? it has a really good reflective display and the batteries last for about 10 hrs.... so i really see no reason why this set up couldn't be integrated into the ipod... it's a frontlit reflective display.

~ianion

 

[mrkstu]

Finally...

This could be the killer app for those little wearable displays/glasses. They've been around forever awaiting the introduction of something like this. Just stick an s-video out on the v-pod and plug in!

Apple should also talk to the studio's about wrapping Fairplay onto DVD's so that they can sell movies that are downloadable via ITunes. I wouldn't mind paying separately for movies I already own if they are optimised for the format.