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4th Generation iPods?
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mraudet said:
It would be cool but I'm afraid that the ipod would be about the size of a small football. The antenna that XM requires is too big to make it into a portable device not even including the circuitry that takes up alot of room as well
ianion said:
Actually, I already addressed that very issue. The problem with it being that the Gameboy has a large 1000mAh battery, which is larger both physically and power-wise. By comparison, the 3G iPods have a 630mAh battery. So using front-lit technology, the best the SP can do with the backlight on is 9-10 hours. You may be forgetting that the SP using game cartridges. Add a constantly spinning hard drive (video), or even occasionally spinning hard drive (pictures/music), to the mix and you've just killed your battery life. That 9-10 hours has just become 4-5 if you're lucky. Hard drives use A LOT of juice. They're second only to the CPU in sheer power used (unless you have a high-power video card).
The front-lit display would certainly help, but they'll need significant power-savings elsewhere to keep the iPod a similar size.
MacRumorSkeptic said:
I agree--the touch scroll wheel works great, but the touch buttons are hit or miss sometimes; ESPECAILLY when making an "On-the-go" playlist.
vpalvarez said:
Actually, this in entirely possible to fit into a small device. Not iPod small, but perhaps Archos Jukebox small. The newest XM antennas are approximately the size of 5 quarters stacked on top of one another. The XM Roadie, one of the newer receivers, is about the size of the newer "candybar" cell phones. Its definately possible. Worthwhile? Probably not. It'd be cool, though.
Even if Apple uses a fairly power-savvy color transflexive screen (like the current crop of iPaqs), I just can't see them endangering their most popular product in years by cutting the battery life in half -- yes, half -- for some neat photo features.
At the same time, Apple has to innovate, try new things, and keep the iPod ahead of its competitors.
What to do, then...?
My guess is three categories of iPod, announced on April 18:
iPod mini - same as currently being offered (no way there'll be a price break, with the minis selling so well; we'll just have to wait on that one)
4G iPod - with iPod mini click-wheel, recording built-in, optical in/out, possibly FM
4G iPod plus - all above and as AI rumored; color screen, photo features, $599
Unless there's some breakthrough technology nobody knows about, that's the only way I can see Apple doing the color screen thing...
At the same time, Apple has to innovate, try new things, and keep the iPod ahead of its competitors.
What to do, then...?
My guess is three categories of iPod, announced on April 18:
iPod mini - same as currently being offered (no way there'll be a price break, with the minis selling so well; we'll just have to wait on that one)
4G iPod - with iPod mini click-wheel, recording built-in, optical in/out, possibly FM
4G iPod plus - all above and as AI rumored; color screen, photo features, $599
Unless there's some breakthrough technology nobody knows about, that's the only way I can see Apple doing the color screen thing...
Stella said:
Couple this rumor with the fact that IBM stated that a big shipment of SOC ASICs were being shipped to Apple, could mean that this is not the 4G iPod but rather a new device, an "iPalm". Basically, an OS X based palm computer with a small 65K color display and new UI similar to the iPod to allow for easy use of the wheel. I envision Apple will allow it to dock to a station where it will become a full blown OS X PC, so that means that Apple will also release new displays with "iPalm" docks. These display station docks can have a optical drive, bluetooth and airport wireless to allow for use with wireless keyboards, mice and printers. The can also dock with other Mac PCs for iSynching, and acting as a remote desktop.
carletonmusic said:
This is a big deal. I really don't see why anyone would want to watch movies or even look at their photos on a 2" screen, but the ability to load up the iPod with all this media and take it (or copy it) wherever you want is the next obvious evolutionary step for the iPod. A simple video out on the iPod combined with an advanced dock with a remote makes this the ultimate portable media device. The FireWire connection already has the ability to carry video...
Anyone who has used the iPod to its full potential as a replacement for CDs can see the paradigm shift and the analogous situation for other types of media. Create your iMovies and instead of burning a bunch of iDVDs, just "Share" them (can't you see the extra icon in iMovie) with your iPod and then hook it up to your TV. Ripped commercial DVDs surely would work as well, and who knows, this may come in conjuction with some sort of legit mp4 video store. All those meticulously organized digital photos trapped in your computer...no more! They will be freed from your hard drive to be easily shown on the big screen in the living room in a 21st century slide show. Watch it at home, take it to Grandma's, make a duplicate iPod with their life's story for the kids as they go off to college. And all the while the iPod continues to act as a backup hard drive for all this precious data.
I've been using the Elgato EyeHome for about a month now and it's fantastic, streaming iTunes (protected AACs included), iPhotos, video, and the web over the network to my home entertainment center. But home networks and streaming media are clearly for the overly geeky crowd...the average-Joe consumer would more easily accept and understand an iPod that syncs music, photos, and video then "plugs in" to any TV or stereo. By the time this iPodAV is available everybody and their brother will already understand how the iPod works for music, this is just the next step.
I have long believed that this is the direction that the iPod (which is NOT called the iMusicPlayer...I think for a reason) will take, and that the also oft-rumored Apple set-top box will never materialize. An advanced iPod could do everything such a box could do but portably in the palm of your hand, with an already established "usability" as it relates to music. Who knows if this latest "reliable" rumor is true, and if it will happen any time soon, but mark this thread, it WILL happen someday...
fabsgwu said:
The iPod Mini wheel is better also from a realestate perspective. It will give apple more room for a larger display, maybe even a touch display, like palms and pocketpc's.
hob said:
Actually, the iPod has always been more than a music player. That's why Apple chose to name it "iPod" and not "iMusic" or even something like "iTunes DJ." So far, the focus has been squarely set on music, but clearly the iPod name allows it to evolve into something more.
And on the contrary, I think being able to take along your collection of favorite photos and view them anytime, anywhere is a really compelling feature. When I took a 2000-mile road trip last summer, we were taking photos all day, every day. Guess what my friends and I did ever day after we returned to the hotel? We dumped the photos onto my PowerBook and we spent at least an hour each day just looking through all the photos we had taken. The girls in the group couldn't stop looking at them - they'd look at the same photos over and over again, set to a different song from my iTunes library. Every day.
(Also, I find that women are much more into photos than men. Women like the idea of capturing memories and being able to access them in any easy fashion - a generalization, but mostly true in my experience.)
The trick is for Apple to keep the iPod simple while adding new features. If Apple can make iPhoto more like iTunes in terms of photo management and syncing, then I think a lot more people who dismissed the iPod as a "$400 music player" will begin to seriously consider getting one. They'll justify the fact that the iPod is one big storage card for their digital camera. You can pay $100 for a 256 MB MemoryStick Pro (or what, $500+ for a 1 GB camera card?!) or pay $400 for 40, 50, or 60 GB of photo storage via the iPod.
Fifty times the storage for the same money? A photo-capable iPod will be an absolute steal on those terms!
Just give me AM/FM and I'll be happy.
Although I think video out-- for photos only-- would be slick. Color screen just doesn't offer enough benefit to outweigh the loss of battery life.
Although I think video out-- for photos only-- would be slick. Color screen just doesn't offer enough benefit to outweigh the loss of battery life.
Think cell phone displays...
I realize that a full-color display will suck a lot of battery life - if it's on all the time at full color/brightness. That needn't be the case. I'm quite happy with my Nokia 3650:
which has a nice 176x208, 4096 color display (and I'm sure better displays have come out since). I can see pictures just fine on it, and the video clips look OK as well. Would I want to watch a movie on it? No. But it's great for other things.
I mention this because the phone can go DAYS without needing a recharge. It has a power-saver mode for the screen that doesn't force it to burn full throttle (nothing new there). Now, if I sit around and do nothing except look at picture after picture, or clip after clip, then, well, yes, the battery life dwindles. But no one does that. If it were a movie player, then yes. But, as a picture viewer, it isn't going to be used constantly, as as such I doubt that Apple would require Area 51/black military technology, unless, of course, that's what Nokia, Samsung, Sony/Ericcson, etc. use.
So, really, there's no technical reason why the screen will have to cut battery life substantially. 99% of the time, it can act like a low-contrast B&W screen.
It would be nice if it could output movies (just not show them on screen) so it could be a portable Tivo of sorts, but that's not required.
BTW, I agree strongly with a previous post that digital out would be really, really nice.
I realize that a full-color display will suck a lot of battery life - if it's on all the time at full color/brightness. That needn't be the case. I'm quite happy with my Nokia 3650:
I mention this because the phone can go DAYS without needing a recharge. It has a power-saver mode for the screen that doesn't force it to burn full throttle (nothing new there). Now, if I sit around and do nothing except look at picture after picture, or clip after clip, then, well, yes, the battery life dwindles. But no one does that. If it were a movie player, then yes. But, as a picture viewer, it isn't going to be used constantly, as as such I doubt that Apple would require Area 51/black military technology, unless, of course, that's what Nokia, Samsung, Sony/Ericcson, etc. use.
So, really, there's no technical reason why the screen will have to cut battery life substantially. 99% of the time, it can act like a low-contrast B&W screen.
It would be nice if it could output movies (just not show them on screen) so it could be a portable Tivo of sorts, but that's not required.
BTW, I agree strongly with a previous post that digital out would be really, really nice.
a video out to ? not a TV... how about an add on device from a 3rd party? I see those portable DVD players all the time... what if you could have a screen that you could plug your ipod into... something like 9" wide or so. A mini LCD screen on your desk. Perhaps something the iPod could dock into to. sounds pretty cool to me. i imagine the display would NEED to have its own power supply (a FW rechargable or plug it into the wall with a brick)
NP3 said:
hear hear!
I just bought one anyway, so Im not in the market, but yeah the only big improvement needs to be made in battery
vpalvarez said:
I am guessing #1.
Remember, they are trying to drive more and more iPod sales. This would help that. One of the things you try to do here is "comoditize your complements"...that is what Apple appears to be doing. It works this way:
1. Every product has "complements"...products that go along with it. Currently the "complements" to the iPod are iTunes and music from the iTMS. Apple has effectively "commoditized" these...driven the cost so low that there is really no money to be made off of them. This (can) increases demand for them, which then has the effect of creating more demand for iPod.
2. Because of #1, it is in your interest to drive the cost of your product/service's complements as low as possible with the idea that demand for them will increase, and then demand for your main product will also increase (though, obviously, not always in the same proportion).
3. Because of #1 and #2...it makes sense for Apple to create more complementary products for iPod. iPhoto is well positioned for this. Make iPhoto freely available for people on Windows...get them to use its great features to manage massive photo collections. Next, say, well, gee you can now carry these with you in your 4G iPod...go buy one.
Furthermore, Apple can make money on updates to iPhoto (iLife)...which many people (wrongly) gripe about. By enhancing the application's functionality, they could say, "Hey, this new functionality is worth $X. But you always get a free copy with a new iPod." Something like that.
I can see iCal going this way too.
Think about iPod as the center of your digital life.
0 and A ai said:
No, actually battery technology is the single slowest evolving technology in a portable system. Plastic molding technology might evolve slower, but not by much...
Just back of the envelope:
How do you make a portable hard drive low power? You spin down the drive.
Let's say your pictures are about the same file size as a 3 minute song.
You view each picture in your slideshow for 15 seconds.
You now need to pull 12 times as much data off that drive as you had to listening to music.
You've want to see the pictures on the LCD, so double the number of pixels in each dimension.
You want color, so triple the number of pixels again.
You're scanning the LCD 12 times faster.
You want to see the color, so beef up the backlight.
You want clean color, so you need a "white" source--makes LEDs hard.
You're now putting video down the cable, not audio.
The processor load is probably similar to decoding AAC, since it has to scale the images.
All this so you can see a reduced resolution image on a 2" screen?
Yeah, there's a lot of things that might be done to reduce the power consumption, and batteries may have gained a couple percent over the last year, but if battery life is important to you I'd hope for audio only iPods to continue shipping...
It's an extra widget and more storage to show off a few piccies. It's got nothing to do with album covers, nothing to do with displaying videos and nothing to do with DVDs.
It won't be released until the current buyers have got bored with the short life of the iPodmini's market and want to have more.
The iPod buzz is sounding rather dull in my ears now. The sooner the decent Mac hardware lineup is given this sort of attention the better.
It won't be released until the current buyers have got bored with the short life of the iPodmini's market and want to have more.
The iPod buzz is sounding rather dull in my ears now. The sooner the decent Mac hardware lineup is given this sort of attention the better.
jsw said:I mention this because the phone can go DAYS without needing a recharge. It has a power-saver mode for the screen that doesn't force it to burn full throttle (nothing new there). Now, if I sit around and do nothing except look at picture after picture, or clip after clip, then, well, yes, the battery life dwindles. But no one does that. If it were a movie player, then yes. But, as a picture viewer, it isn't going to be used constantly, as as such I doubt that Apple would require Area 51/black military technology, unless, of course, that's what Nokia, Samsung, Sony/Ericcson, etc. use.
So, really, there's no technical reason why the screen will have to cut battery life substantially. 99% of the time, it can act like a low-contrast B&W screen.
The thing you're forgetting is that your cell phone doesn't have a hard drive. Hard drives still use an exceptional amount of power compared to any solid-state electronics. Most of your battery power is going to the hard drive, and anytime another component uses extra power, it leaves less for the hard drive-- thus, shortened battery life.
Seriously
If Archos, Thomson and Sony can produce portable a/v, PVR, high capacity, audio/video in/out and capture devices right now - why wouldn't Apple do the same? They have too much invested in the portable entertainment market to idly sit by and watch their rivals overtake them by sticking to an audio only product. Why have just music when you can watch the music video. Who would have thought that mobile phones would play mp3s, mp4s, capture video, browse the internet, store all your contact information and even, even... make calls! Apple have got some mental new toys in the works at the moment and they're not going to do things by half!
If Archos, Thomson and Sony can produce portable a/v, PVR, high capacity, audio/video in/out and capture devices right now - why wouldn't Apple do the same? They have too much invested in the portable entertainment market to idly sit by and watch their rivals overtake them by sticking to an audio only product. Why have just music when you can watch the music video. Who would have thought that mobile phones would play mp3s, mp4s, capture video, browse the internet, store all your contact information and even, even... make calls! Apple have got some mental new toys in the works at the moment and they're not going to do things by half!
madrobby said:
Doesn't say that it will play video, it will display pictures (on tv with the video out OR on iPod screen)
Great for album art too. I can't wait.
Lord Bodak said:
True, but my point was simply that the color display needn't shorten the battery life by much compared to using a display like those of previous iPods. Gaming devices, TVs, etc., that use color displays and need them on all the time they're in use often have serious battery life issues, but a color iPod needn't - assuming the display isn't fundamental to using the product, as it isn't for an iPod.
I agree that the hard drive is the biggest drain. I just don't think a color screen will make it much worse; I do think, though, that a color screen could provide some nice benefits which, if not used, won't shorten battery life by more than a few minutes per charge.
I personally won't ever buy another iPod. It's an MP3 player, why do I need another?
Plus the current battery life is really sucky, and I don't see a more feature rich iPod giving it the 12+ hrs of battery life that I'd want.
Add in Apple's 5 month delay (and still counting) to fix the 4.1 iPod software bug problems and how they tend to drop support for the older iPods ASAP, I'm not very impressed.
Plus the current battery life is really sucky, and I don't see a more feature rich iPod giving it the 12+ hrs of battery life that I'd want.
Add in Apple's 5 month delay (and still counting) to fix the 4.1 iPod software bug problems and how they tend to drop support for the older iPods ASAP, I'm not very impressed.