5 computer updates coming soon?

[Zaty]

Let see if you read the beginning of this thread you would of seen computer number. Just to recap Powerbook 7,1 and 7,2 and a Powermac 9,1 were all computer numbers that don't exist. Those numbers were found in the 10.3.5 update. So that tells us we are going to see 3 new computers while this update remains in computers(intill 10.3.6 comes out).

I heard at ai(appleinsider) and forgot the thread though that the e600 was not intended for apple to use.

The existence of those machine IDs doesn't mean that we'll see new machines before 10.3.6 for sure. It only means there is a possibilty we might. If I remember correctly, the ID PM 7,3 (the current models) first appeared in 10.3.3. which was released in March but as we all know, the new PMs weren't announced for another 3 months. With all the problems Apple (or IBM for that matter) is having, it's not unlikely we won't see those laptops and desktop for some time.

As for the PB, it's interesting, that there is no ID for a new 12" PB. I really don't think Apple is phasing them out already. AFAIK, they sell pretty well. Also, there are no new machine IDs for a new iBook revision.

While I can't say those IDs don't mean anything, we should not read too much into it. One thing seems pretty clear too me, though. No PB G5 anytime soon.

 

[quagmire]

The existence of those machine IDs doesn't mean that we'll see new machines before 10.3.6 for sure. It only means there is a possibilty we might. If I remember correctly, the ID PM 7,3 (the current models) first appeared in 10.3.3. which was released in March but as we all know, the new PMs weren't announced for another 3 months. With all the problems Apple (or IBM for that matter) is having, it's not unlikely we won't see those laptops and desktop for some time.

As for the PB, it's interesting, that there is no ID for a new 12" PB. I really don't think Apple is phasing them out already. AFAIK, they sell pretty well. Also, there are no new machine IDs for a new iBook revision.

While I can't say those IDs don't mean anything, we should not read too much into it. One thing seems pretty clear too me, though. No PB G5 anytime soon.

As long as there is no problems there should be those computers before 10.3.6. The pmacs I belive had a release date for March but, had problems and pushed to June. No G5 Pbook anytime soon? Yes, for the 12" but, no, for the rest. Those numbers are meaning for a new chipset. Which is most likely a G5. For the ibook revision I am sure they are going to get updated in November. The 12" pbook may stay a G4 for a while.(intill WWDC 2005 I would say)

 

[windowsblowsass]

Let see if you read the beginning of this thread you would of seen computer number. Just to recap Powerbook 7,1 and 7,2 and a Powermac 9,1 were all computer numbers that don't exist. Those numbers were found in the 10.3.5 update. So that tells us we are going to see 3 new computers while this update remains in computers(intill 10.3.6 comes out).

I heard at ai(appleinsider) and forgot the thread though that the e600 was not intended for apple to use.

ughh you found a japenese document that was highly suspicious and didnt come from freescale that said something about low yields. GET OVER IT.

it was bs plain and simple. apple is the only large customor for a high performance freescale ppc chip so why even develop it if it isnt intended for apple? YOU DONT it is intended for apple use.


end rant

 

[wide]

A different approach...

It is sad that I think freescale will be the hardest comapny to convince apple to put there stuff in it. I don't think they will be putting in new G4's in any rev d's pbooks(rev c for 15") G4's yet. Freescale still has some ties with moto. That could be what is holding apple back and making a deal with freescale. It is great though that they are planning a 2 Ghz G4 and a 3 Ghz G4 64 bit. But, I think unless they can dramaticly increase fsb on the new G4's( maybe to 500 Mhz) the G4's are pretty much dying and only a matter of time the G5's become cool enough to be in pbooks(sometime next year). I say(this is my opinion) freescale has a very short time to get these new G4's out and impress apple before the end of 2005. It could be even shortier time limit if the pbooks G5 are coming in January- WWDC.

AFAIK, Freescale is a subsidiary of Motorola, which means that they have A LOT of ties to Motorola.

I'm no expert on corporate law but Freescale is, as far as I know, a completely different entity. If Apple sued Moto, I think that would hurt their (Moto's) bottom line. Conversely, if Apple bought Freescale chips, that would boost theirs. Does anyone know anything about post-spinoff corporate relationships?

I don't think Freescale has any plans of become a self-controlled company. Freescale Semiconductor is a subsidiary of Motorola and I believe it will remain that way. Why would Motorola launch a company out of their semiconductor business knowing that it would eventually cease to be affiliated with Motorola?

In the Corporate Overview of Freescale Semiconductor (http://investors.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=175261&p=irol-homeProfile&t=&id=&), it says that

The company traces its roots of technology innovation and strong customer relationships back more than half a century, when the Semiconductor Products Sector of Motorola, Inc. began operations.

The first sentence of that paragraph led me to reply in this thread: The company traces its roots of technology innovation ... back more than half a century, when the Semiconductor Products Sector of Motorola, Inc. began operations.

Basically, this says that the roots, or backbone, of some of Freescale's technologies were originally developed by Motorola. After all, Freescale does use some of Motorola's technologies (the G4). I think this might be referring to the e600, which is essentially an expansion of the G4:

The e600 core is instruction set and pin compatible with the G4 core used in the award-winning, high-performance MPC74xx family of PowerPC processors

Okay...the e600 uses some old Motorola technologies...but if you return to the the Corporate Overview page (URL above), it says

The company expects to complete its spinoff from Motorola, Inc. by year-end 2004.

Rather than meaning Freescale wishes to become its own company, this might mean that Freescale hopes to complete its technologies that have spun-off from past Motorola work by year-end 2004. If my interpretation is at all true, then the e600 processor should be released by year-end.

This is just how I think of it, it may be wrong, yet I think there might be some truth to it. I have not really taken sufficient time to browse the Freescale website and press releases about Freescale's relationship with Motorola, so this entire post might be based off nothing (oops).

edit: ps if you're confused PM or email me and i will try to clarify my ideas.

 

[Sun Baked]

I don't think Freescale has any plans of become a self-controlled company. Freescale Semiconductor is a subsidiary of Motorola and I believe it will remain that way. Why would Motorola launch a company out of their semiconductor business knowing that it would eventually cease to be affiliated with Motorola?

Rather than meaning Freescale wishes to become its own company, this might mean that Freescale hopes to complete its technologies that have spun-off from past Motorola work by year-end 2004. If my interpretation is at all true, then the e600 processor should be released by year-end.

This is just how I think of it, it may be wrong, yet I think there might be some truth to it. I have not really taken sufficient time to browse the Freescale website and press releases about Freescale's relationship with Motorola, so this entire post might be based off nothing (oops).

edit: ps if you're confused PM or email me and i will try to clarify my ideas.

This portion of public FSL 10-Q Filing may clarify things, which almost sounds like Motorola will get rid of their Freescale ownership by the end of the year.

Freescale Semiconductor, Inc. and Subsidiaries
Notes to Condensed Consolidated and Combined Financial Statements
(Unaudited)
(Dollars in millions, except as noted)

(1) Basis of Presentation

Freescale Semiconductor, Inc. (“Freescale Semiconductor”) was incorporated in Delaware on December 3, 2003 in preparation for the contribution and transfer by Motorola, Inc. (“Motorola”) of substantially all of its semiconductor businesses’ assets and liabilities to the Company (the “Contribution”) and an initial public offering (“IPO”) of Company Class A common stock. The Company completed the Contribution in the second quarter of 2004 and the IPO on July 21, 2004. The Company is currently a majority owned subsidiary of Motorola with Motorola holding all of the Company’s Class B shares of common stock outstanding. Prior to the IPO, Freescale Semiconductor was a wholly owned subsidiary of Motorola. We refer to the combined predecessor companies and businesses as the “Company”, “we”, “us” or “our” unless the context otherwise requires. Motorola has advised us that it intends to distribute its remaining ownership interest in us by means of a special dividend to its common stockholders (the “Distribution”) by the end of 2004.

Don't know how to answer the why question.

But it looks like Freescale is on it's own and Motorola will have nothing to do with it by the end of the year, and once the Motorola will buy x unit from them expire...

I did notice that Motorola has already standardized on the PPC970 for their next batch of telecom racks. They will be selling rebranded IBM PPC970 blade servers for the telecom racks.

Originally posted by M.Isobe:
Motorola (not Freescale) sells IBM's PowerBlade

Last month, IBM and Motorola announcement they will promote IBM's BladeCenter to telecommunication market. From this product brief, Motorola sells 970FX based PowerBlade.

 

[iNetwork]

Freescale

Moto is spinning off Freescale. In your mind you should think that freescale is Motorola Semiconductor. Moto is more interested in making cell phones and radios than processors. It's a tax and profit thing. Large corporations do this so that if one "sector" or specilization of the company fails, it doesn't bring the rest of the company down with it. Additionally there are fewer corporate ties and leadership decisions can be made faster if Freescale answers to itself and not Moto corporate. It's basically a more efficient way of doing business.

While I'm on that rant, besides the bus being faster, I don't beleive that a 1.6 ghz G5 is nearly as fast as a 1.5 mhz G4. Yes the G5 is 64 bit, but even Panther doesn't utilize it. I was poking around in the kernel and it's still 32 bit. Just look at the xbench #'s on cpu speed. This is looking to be what intel did with the P4 line. At first the p3's were faster and the p4 was actually a slower processor until the speeds scaled faster. The chip was introduced at 1.6 ghz. A 2.5 ghz machine IS fast but a G5 powerbook at 1.6 when we have g4's at 1.5 that actually have more processing power...

Back on topic, I beleive we are going to freescale graphics chips and a faster radeon vid card. I think that'll be the only update though. The only thing that makes me think that moto won't go with the freescale is that a 1.6+ ghz cool running freescale will tear apart any G5 powerbook starting below 2 ghz. It's all about how short the pipeline is and unfortunately 1.6 ghz chips aren't considered fast in my book any longer.

</rant>

 

[Squire]

Thanks for the clarification, Sun Baked and iNetwork. That was basically how I understood the situation to be, as well.

Squire

 

[quagmire]

While I'm on that rant, besides the bus being faster, I don't believe that a 1.6 ghz G5 is nearly as fast as a 1.5 mhz G4. Yes the G5 is 64 bit, but even Panther doesn't utilize it. I was poking around in the kernel and it's still 32 bit. Just look at the xbench #'s on cpu speed. This is looking to be what intel did with the P4 line. At first the p3's were faster and the p4 was actually a slower processor until the speeds scaled faster. The chip was introduced at 1.6 ghz. A 2.5 ghz machine IS fast but a G5 powerbook at 1.6 when we have g4's at 1.5 that actually have more processing power...

Back on topic, I beleive we are going to freescale graphics chips and a faster radeon vid card. I think that'll be the only update though. The only thing that makes me think that moto won't go with the freescale is that a 1.6+ ghz cool running freescale will tear apart any G5 powerbook starting below 2 ghz. It's all about how short the pipeline is and unfortunately 1.6 ghz chips aren't considered fast in my book any longer.

</rant>

By what you say that Panther won't utilize the 64 bit on the 1.6 Ghz G5. That is true. The 1.5 Ghz G4 beating the 1.6 Ghz G5 in Panther is true. B ut, with Tiger utilizing the 64 bit tech the 1.6 Ghz G5 will beat the 1.5 Ghz G4.

 

[iNetwork]

By what you say that Panther won't utilize the 64 bit on the 1.6 Ghz G5. That is true. The 1.5 Ghz G4 beating the 1.6 Ghz G5 in Panther is true. B ut, with Tiger utilizing the 64 bit tech the 1.6 Ghz G5 will beat the 1.5 Ghz G4.

We'll see. By the time Apple produces a 64 bit kernel and supporting applications a 1.6 ghz processor will be out of date. I'm sure the next Powermac G5 will be almost twice as fast. Remember the pipeline is much longer on the G5, that's why it performs slower in 32bit than the G4. I have a feeling that the G5 will be slower. As soon as Terrasoft Solutions finishes YDL 4.0 with a 64bit kernel, I'll see if I can't get some benchies knocked out. I'm losing faith in the 64 bit side of Apple. They just don't have the real world performance step-up I had anticipated..

 

[toughboy]

Aaah! The return of the Cube. I´d love a new up-to-date Cube.

what a lovely thing would it be, seeing a CubeG5...

 

[Mord]

Moto is spinning off Freescale. In your mind you should think that freescale is Motorola Semiconductor. Moto is more interested in making cell phones and radios than processors. It's a tax and profit thing. Large corporations do this so that if one "sector" or specilization of the company fails, it doesn't bring the rest of the company down with it. Additionally there are fewer corporate ties and leadership decisions can be made faster if Freescale answers to itself and not Moto corporate. It's basically a more efficient way of doing business.

While I'm on that rant, besides the bus being faster, I don't beleive that a 1.6 ghz G5 is nearly as fast as a 1.5 MHz G4. Yes the G5 is 64 bit, but even Panther doesn't utilize it. I was poking around in the kernel and it's still 32 bit. Just look at the xbench #'s on cpu speed. This is looking to be what intel did with the P4 line. At first the p3's were faster and the p4 was actually a slower processor until the speeds scaled faster. The chip was introduced at 1.6 ghz. A 2.5 ghz machine IS fast but a G5 powerbook at 1.6 when we have g4's at 1.5 that actually have more processing power...

Back on topic, I beleive we are going to freescale graphics chips and a faster radeon vid card. I think that'll be the only update though. The only thing that makes me think that moto won't go with the freescale is that a 1.6+ ghz cool running freescale will tear apart any G5 powerbook starting below 2 ghz. It's all about how short the pipeline is and unfortunately 1.6 ghz chips aren't considered fast in my book any longer.

</rant>

your spot on the g5 has a 20 stage pipeline comared to the g4's 7 (the 7410 & 7400 had a 4 stage pipeline which is why my cube is equal to about a 1.4GHz pIV but a 733MHz ppc7450 is equal to about a 1.5GHz pIIII only a small increase

and btw it's GHz not MHz

 

[Mord]

what a lovely thing would it be, seeing a CubeG5...

as i would love a g5 cube it would be expensive and no one but me and annother 100,000 people will buy it people will say "for $200 more i can get a dual 1.8GHz g5 with more expandibility, some people will never get it.

 

[iNetwork]

your spot on the g5 has a 20 stage pipeline comared to the g4's 7 (the 7410 & 7400 had a 4 stage pipeline which is why my dual cube is equal to about a 1.4GHz pIIII but a 733MHz ppc7450 is equal to about a 1.5GHz pIIII

Thanks for quantifying. BTW the roman numeral for 4 is IV

I hope this will make people realize that the longer pipeline allows the processor to scale in speed but efficiency (work per mhz) is decreased. It took the P4 a 500 mhz increace to be faster than the P3's. The P4 did scale to now 3.6 ghz though!

 

[quagmire]

We'll see. By the time Apple produces a 64 bit kernel and supporting applications a 1.6 ghz processor will be out of date. I'm sure the next Powermac G5 will be almost twice as fast. Remember the pipeline is much longer on the G5, that's why it performs slower in 32bit than the G4. I have a feeling that the G5 will be slower. As soon as Terrasoft Solutions finishes YDL 4.0 with a 64bit kernel, I'll see if I can't get some benchies knocked out. I'm losing faith in the 64 bit side of Apple. They just don't have the real world performance step-up I had anticipated..

I know the G5 has a longer pipeline( how many stages does the G5 and P4 have?). Yes, the 1.6 Ghz G5 will be outdated then and most likely won't be in the imac anymore. But, I ws trying to say the 1.6 Ghz G5 running tiger will beat the 1.5 Ghz G4 running tiger.

 

[justinshiding]

Good find.

The big news is that the next update of the PowerBooks will come with a new chipset!!! G5 here we come! Or a new G4, perhaps the Freescale e600. Exciting. The iBooks and PowerBooks are due for an update in Oct/Nov. From the look of the numbers, the 15" and 17" PBs will get new chipsets (5x --> 15"/17" PBs; 6x --> 12"PB/iBook) but not the 12". Makes sense.

What is this mysterious 9,1? And when is it coming out?

So , assuming that the 15 and 17 get some kind of update , be it g4 or g5, could the 12in model get a boost from a previously used chipset ?

Example , 15in and 17in get an upgraded g4 e600 at X ghz...would apple's product naming scheme allow for the 1.5 ghz currently in the 15/17in to be moved into the 12in without creating a different product name (x,x ) ?

Or maybe I'm just dreaming.... I've been playing the "wait for an update" game for waaaay too long.

 

[Zaty]

So , assuming that the 15 and 17 get some kind of update , be it g4 or g5, could the 12in model get a boost from a previously used chipset ?

Example , 15in and 17in get an upgraded g4 e600 at X ghz...would apple's product naming scheme allow for the 1.5 ghz currently in the 15/17in to be moved into the 12in without creating a different product name (x,x ) ?

Or maybe I'm just dreaming.... I've been playing the "wait for an update" game for waaaay too long.

I guess a new 12" PB will carry a different machine ID. Secondly, the absence of such an ID for the 12" can only mean two things: The 12" will be canned or 10.3.5 already offers support for the newly designed 15" and 17" for testing purpose. Regardless of when the new PBs will be announced, they will run a later release than what we currently have.

 

[PPC970FX]

Apple have had a big hit with there xserves, could this be a 4-way xserver with 2.5Ghz??

 

[quagmire]

I just found that the pbook 7,1 and 7,2 use the MacRISK4 architecture. Which you notice the Pmac G5, the Xserve G5, and the upcoming imac G5 also use the MacRISK4 architecture. So that seems confirmation for the pbook going G5 at next rev. So I might expect pbook G5's at Paris and keeping tradition of using the cram and jam promotion to empty out inventory.

PS: Sorry for resurrecting this thread.

 

[alexf]

While I'm on that rant, besides the bus being faster, I don't beleive that a 1.6 ghz G5 is nearly as fast as a 1.5 mhz G4. Yes the G5 is 64 bit, but even Panther doesn't utilize it. I was poking around in the kernel and it's still 32 bit. Just look at the xbench #'s on cpu speed. This is looking to be what intel did with the P4 line. At first the p3's were faster and the p4 was actually a slower processor until the speeds scaled faster. The chip was introduced at 1.6 ghz. A 2.5 ghz machine IS fast but a G5 powerbook at 1.6 when we have g4's at 1.5 that actually have more processing power...

Wait a second... From what I have seen thee G5 1.6 smokes the G4 1.5. Do you mean without the faster bus?

 

[Squire]

I just found that the pbook 7,1 and 7,2 use the MacRISK4 architecture. Which you notice the Pmac G5, the Xserve G5, and the upcoming imac G5 also use the MacRISK4 architecture. So that seems confirmation for the pbook going G5 at next rev. So I might expect pbook G5's at Paris and keeping tradition of using the cram and jam promotion to empty out inventory.

PS: Sorry for resurrecting this thread.

Cool. I guess I'm glad I didn't buy a Powerbook last week, then. Just out of curiosity, what's the most that's been introduced at a major Mac event recently? Two revised products? Hmmm...iMacs and Powerbooks would rule.

Squire

 

[alexf]

Cool. I guess I'm glad I didn't buy a Powerbook last week, then. Just out of curiosity, what's the most that's been introduced at a major Mac event recently? Two revised products? Hmmm...iMacs and Powerbooks would rule.

Squire

I hate to burst your bubble, but I really think we won't see
G5 Powerbooks until next year.

Just my intuition, for what it's worth.

 

[quagmire]

I hate to burst your bubble, but I really think we won't see
G5 Powerbooks until next year.

Just my intuition, for what it's worth.

By January I perdict 10.3.6 will be out. So if these numbers are true and the architecture is right then we should see pbook G5 at paris. Could Jobs right for once by saying he would like the pbook G5 out by fall?

 

[Squire]

I hate to burst your bubble, but I really think we won't see
G5 Powerbooks until next year.

Just my intuition, for what it's worth.

Oh, don't be mistaken. There's no "bubble" here. I'm just trying to rationalize my decision to hold off on a purchase. I've been eyeing the 12" PB for quite some time but I'm afraid the next rev. won't see much more than a bigger 1.5 GHz G4 and a larger HD. This thread gives me a little hope.

Squire

 

[quagmire]

Oh, don't be mistaken. There's no "bubble" here. I'm just trying to rationalize my decision to hold off on a purchase. I've been eyeing the 12" PB for quite some time but I'm afraid the next rev. won't see much more than a bigger 1.5 GHz G4 and a larger HD. This thread gives me a little hope.

Squire

I would wait intill Paris on your purchase. If pbooks get refreshed the 12" pbook will rather get killed(which will give a discount on any inventory 12" pbooks) or be updated to 1.5 Ghz G4 while the 15" and 17" pbook gets a G5 chip running at from 1.6 Ghz- 2.2 Ghz. I have no idea what the speeds will be. But, I would assume apple will want to keep the pbook faster then the imac.

 

[alexf]

By January I perdict 10.3.6 will be out. So if these numbers are true and the architecture is right then we should see pbook G5 at paris. Could Jobs right for once by saying he would like the pbook G5 out by fall?

I still think G5 Powerbooks are a ways off. Even Apple's Directory of Power Mac Product Marketing stated in June that users should not expect G5 PowerBooks this year.

Couldn't it be that Apple has included the new computer so that, in case they have not come out with a new OS update by the time they do release the new computer(s) they would not be forced to just for this purpose - to cover their grounds, so to speak?

From what I have gathered, I also don't think that the 90nm chip will go into the laptops - I think we'll have to wait for IBMs next revision.

Again, all speculation.