Is re-burning the DVD only required for the older Mac Pros? I have an early 2008 model - should I be able to just put the disc in and go? (I know I can do it without any issues through VMWare though.)
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64-bitWindows 7 and 2006 Mac Pro
- Thread starter bozz2006
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Bozz, you should be able to install your VM directly off the ISO image that you download, without burning it to a DVD - Parallels and VMWare both support installation from image files. From there, make whatever mods you need to.
Yeah, you have to run it with admin rights. I disable the blimming user account control. It does nothing but annoy you. It will not stop viruses and worms anyway.
Usually you miss a lot of stuff if you do not make a complete install by using that file for a Bootcamp 64-bit installation.
Has anyone gotten Windows 7 setup on a partition of a Mac formatted drive? I'd consider it if I could leave 200GB free on one of my drives, then install onto that. Currently I have 2 1.5TB drives joined with a 1TB drive as my Time Machine volume for 4 TB, but it doesn't really need that much.
The issue is that Windows 7 complained about installing onto a drive already formatted with Mac volumes - anyone get this to work? Advice please.
@Gugucom: how did you run SnowLeopard64.msi with admin rights? I'm the only user - do I have to log in as Administrator for that to work? Details, please - I do miss my Half Life 2... ;-)
JP
PS: does anyone think we're doing stuff that only 1% of the population would even try? I get that feeling sometimes.
The issue is that Windows 7 complained about installing onto a drive already formatted with Mac volumes - anyone get this to work? Advice please.
@Gugucom: how did you run SnowLeopard64.msi with admin rights? I'm the only user - do I have to log in as Administrator for that to work? Details, please - I do miss my Half Life 2... ;-)
JP
PS: does anyone think we're doing stuff that only 1% of the population would even try? I get that feeling sometimes.
It has as far as firmware is concerned, and the OS will be next, when it goes to a 64bit Kernel only.
A rather raw deal, as workstations & servers are supported for at least 5 years by any other vendor, as they're aimed at enterprise/professional users that need that level of support/continuity (systems offered for 5 years before discontinuation).
I feel the need to dump off this computer while it's still worth some money, but I just don't have any of my own money to put into a new machine. God, if they would just upgrade the firmware to K64, everything would be fine!
It would, but it's not going to happen, or Apple would already have done so for those with EFI32 based systems.
You could put the '06 up on CL, and then use the cash to put towards a new system (assuming you've zeroed in on what you want, and can cover any differences). That would severely reduce your "computer withdrawal" symptoms, as you'd only be waiting on shipping.
Unless you can convince family or friends to let you use thiers while you wait on FedEX (or which ever company is handling your new toy).
You can continue to use the system until the sale is made (erase & clean install while they wait if possible, or arrange a pickup & payment if need be). Backups,... done once you put it up for sale, and done really often while you wait for a buyer.
So hopefully, it won't be too bad.
I have Win7 on my uMBP with GUID partition table on a partitioned drive. I have used Bootcamp Assi if I remember right. That was an EFI64 machine, so I did not need to mod the install disk.
I have used SL Bootcamp 3.0 drivers from drivers/apple/bootcamp64.msi. Before running it I right clicked the compatibility option to make the Vista drivers fit. Then I ran it as admin and as I said whenever I can I disable the account control. I don't remember if that was possible in Seven at all.
If you partition without the Bootcamp assi you have to observe that you must install Windows in the lowest partition and that you can only have a maximum of three visible partitions. There is an invisible EFI partition when you have done the GUID partition table right. You can see it if you type "diskutil list" in terminal. This is how it looks on my uMBP:
diskutil list
/dev/disk0
#: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER
0: GUID_partition_scheme *320.1 GB disk0
1: EFI 209.7 MB disk0s1
2: Apple_HFS OS X 149.7 GB disk0s2
3: Microsoft Basic Data Data 51.9 GB disk0s3
4: Microsoft Basic Data Win 115.9 GB disk0s4
1 is EFI
2 is OS X
3 is NTFS Data partition
4 is Windows Seven partition
But this structur is a bit irregular. I do not recommend it unless you have some experience.
I'm with you, Bozz. I'm getting a bad feeling about this in terms of future-proofing our hardware.
Yes, yes, I know that ultimately is impossible - technology marches on. But you can look for certain qualities in a PC or Mac which will give it more legs in the long run, and I truly think 64-bit is where they are headed. Not today, not tomorrow, but 10.7? 10.8? That's not too far off.
If they prevent EFI32 Macs from from running the next generation of OS, then all the upgrades in the world that we applied to these 2006 Pros will have been for nothing. Well, I can't say that - we're getting productivity out of these machines, certainly - it's the best computer I've owned yet. I love how silent they are, even stuffed with drives.
So what's the story on the 2008 Pros? They DO have EFI64, but they CAN or CANNOT be upgraded with Nahalem Xeons? If they can, that's what I'll buy. If not, I'll have to (gulp) buy a 2009 2.26 Octo and upgrade the CPUs later. Those ain't cheap.
Hopefully I can get about $2500-3000 for this setup - what do you think?:
- 2006 Pro upgraded with 2x 4-core 2.66 x5355s
- 8GB, wireless, bluetooth
- ATI 3870 w. Accelero
- 7TB storage in 6 internal drives
- Apple 23" Cinema HD
- Original iSight, Apple Keyboard, Mighty Mouse
- Original boxes
It's a complete system, and I'd include SL, office, VMWare with a licensed copy of XP or Vista, iLife, iWork, etc. That really doesn't factor into the price nowadays, but it'll be pre-configured and ready to use.
I don't know, Bozz - should we even consider this?
You cannot upgrade 2008 with Nehalem. It is a different socket to start with. 2008 is a 771 socket and 2009 is a 1366 socket. There are tons of differences on top of that. You have a daughter board for CPUs and RAM, you have vented heatsinks with internal connector for the temp sensor and the fan, you have a complete new chipset 5520 vs 5000, a new way to control memory by QPI vs FSB and you get ODD with SATA instead of IDE. Consequentially you have only one spare SATA port, but the ODD boots SATA as well.
Ah, gotcha. I suspected as much, but didn't know for certain. I just checked prices on the Apple Store and the 2009 2.26 Octos are around $3600 with virtually nothing added, plus tax. YIKES!
eBay is not much better. Fortunately the 8-core Pros are selling around 2500 with little else, so my rig might get around 3K.
I'm not sure if this is doable as a swap. I'd almost certainly need to add a few hundred more, especially if I bought a 2009.
eBay is not much better. Fortunately the 8-core Pros are selling around 2500 with little else, so my rig might get around 3K.
I'm not sure if this is doable as a swap. I'd almost certainly need to add a few hundred more, especially if I bought a 2009.
Unless you are very keen to run Blu-Ray and boot ODD from SATA the 2008 may be the better deal. It is surely not as fast in cinebench as the W5590s but no slouch either. I was in a position to go for Blu-Ray with Windows which only works with SATA and AHCI. I also wanted only one ODD that would also boot from SATA. This is because I want the space for up to four SSDs in the second optical bay. So I had no alternative but the 2009.
If Blu-Ray and SSDs are not so much a concern to you a high end 2008 should be a very good option. It has EFI64 and will run K64. You also have 6 SATA ports plus 2 IDE. The RAM is better value and over all the value for money is quite high.
If Blu-Ray and SSDs are not so much a concern to you a high end 2008 should be a very good option. It has EFI64 and will run K64. You also have 6 SATA ports plus 2 IDE. The RAM is better value and over all the value for money is quite high.
@Gugucom:
I disabled UAC, I'm listed as the only account and account type is Administrator, and I'm trying to run BootCamp64.msi, and it keeps saying it has to be run with admin rights. I don't have a right-click "Run As..." option. How EXACTLY did you manage to run it? Do you have to reboot after disabling UAC? I'll try that.
Update: Yup, rebooting after you disable UAC is the way to get BootCamp64 to run. Everyone needs to be clear on that, since I obviously was not. :-/
Update 2: OK, I installed everything and now after about 30 seconds in Windows 7, it blue screens with a CACHE_MANAGER code, and auto-reboots. But I have to hold down Option to select the Windows partition each time. This is annoying.
Many thanks,
JP
I believe the BSOD is caused by the HFS+ driver Apple build into the 3.0 Bootcamp drivers. It seems to be crap. You should disable that driver if you get crashes.
I was wondering about that!
Aha! That will help, but I had already given up - I'll stick this other drive in and reinstall.
It was strange - I installed Win7 on a dedicated drive in Bay 4 (fortunately my Bay 5-6 have enough space to act as a Time Machine volume for Bay's 1-3), and everything seemed OK. THEN I install Boot Camp and the Blue Screens begin.
Gugucom, could you give me the details on that HFS driver? If I can disable that particular driver, that would be great - but which driver / file / service is it? Is it a startup TSR I need to disable, a service I need to set to Disabled, a particular item in Programs and Features I need to uninstall?
Also, and this is driving me nuts - VMWare will happily convert a Boot Camp partition to use as a VM when you don't want to boot into it native - which is AWESOME - but it's not handling the Win7 drive very well. The Win7 installer creates a 100MB "System Reserved" partition in front of the primary volume, and VMWare tries to convert THAT partition and fails. How can I work around that?
If I could solve those two issues, I would happily give up one of my bays for Windows 7 x64 Pro, mainly so I could play games at native speed. But the VMWare side of it means I could set it up and have it running on my other monitor for minor stuff, thus giving rid of a second PC under the desk. Heaven!
Please help me get to heaven. ;-)
Edit: It's a 100MB volume, not a 100GB. Sorry.
JP
Aha! That will help, but I had already given up - I'll stick this other drive in and reinstall.
It was strange - I installed Win7 on a dedicated drive in Bay 4 (fortunately my Bay 5-6 have enough space to act as a Time Machine volume for Bay's 1-3), and everything seemed OK. THEN I install Boot Camp and the Blue Screens begin.
Gugucom, could you give me the details on that HFS driver? If I can disable that particular driver, that would be great - but which driver / file / service is it? Is it a startup TSR I need to disable, a service I need to set to Disabled, a particular item in Programs and Features I need to uninstall?
Also, and this is driving me nuts - VMWare will happily convert a Boot Camp partition to use as a VM when you don't want to boot into it native - which is AWESOME - but it's not handling the Win7 drive very well. The Win7 installer creates a 100MB "System Reserved" partition in front of the primary volume, and VMWare tries to convert THAT partition and fails. How can I work around that?
If I could solve those two issues, I would happily give up one of my bays for Windows 7 x64 Pro, mainly so I could play games at native speed. But the VMWare side of it means I could set it up and have it running on my other monitor for minor stuff, thus giving rid of a second PC under the desk. Heaven!
Please help me get to heaven. ;-)
Edit: It's a 100MB volume, not a 100GB. Sorry.
JP
I had a good look into the driver package to find the HFS+ driver but it is difficult to identify it. I expect it to be in the Apple section but it could be hidden in the Nulldriver package or somewhere else. I'm now trying a Google search to see if someone else has posted something about the removal. I have seen references of people reporting trouble and I have experienced BSOD myself with fault messages pointing to HFS+. In my own case I resolved the issue by taking out the partitions which I did not need at that time.
Re a 100 GB system partition I'm a bit clueless. The only regular system partition I know of is the EFI partition but that is supposed to have 200 MB. In Windows it is referred to as GPT protection partition. If you select GUID Partition Table (GPT) in Windows disk utility it also creates something like that but it is different in format to what Apple does. It is a PITA that Apple and MS can never do the same thing even when standardization orgs try to define it. They allways try to trip each other up to the detriment of the user.
Re a 100 GB system partition I'm a bit clueless. The only regular system partition I know of is the EFI partition but that is supposed to have 200 MB. In Windows it is referred to as GPT protection partition. If you select GUID Partition Table (GPT) in Windows disk utility it also creates something like that but it is different in format to what Apple does. It is a PITA that Apple and MS can never do the same thing even when standardization orgs try to define it. They allways try to trip each other up to the detriment of the user.
The solution I think is...
I think I know what I'll do.
I'll install 32-bit XP on this dedicated drive (which installs a single partition), run Boot Camp on that, and VMWare on top of that. I'll install Windows 7 on the Living Room HTPC and leave it at that. Only cost me $30 (student discount), so I don't need to stress about this.
Yes, I lose all 8GB of RAM. Big deal - everything I run on XP doesn't need it - the 3.3GB it can address will be more than enough for games, Office 2003, Google Earth, playing video, whatever. I won't need to boot into it natively often enough for it really to be an issue - otherwise I'd keep my Core 2 Quad rig turned on right next to the Pro.
Plus it'll just WORK. No Blue screens with wonky x64 drivers. That means a ton at my age.
JP
I think I know what I'll do.
I'll install 32-bit XP on this dedicated drive (which installs a single partition), run Boot Camp on that, and VMWare on top of that. I'll install Windows 7 on the Living Room HTPC and leave it at that. Only cost me $30 (student discount), so I don't need to stress about this.
Yes, I lose all 8GB of RAM. Big deal - everything I run on XP doesn't need it - the 3.3GB it can address will be more than enough for games, Office 2003, Google Earth, playing video, whatever. I won't need to boot into it natively often enough for it really to be an issue - otherwise I'd keep my Core 2 Quad rig turned on right next to the Pro.
Plus it'll just WORK. No Blue screens with wonky x64 drivers. That means a ton at my age.
JP
Have you checked that figure? If not, you might find it's only 1.99GB.
With some Mac Pros people are only seeing that amount when running
32-bit Windows. The issue seems to be firmware-related.