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I’m very conflicted. 64gb could make it possible to do things locally that I would need to run through remote workstations or on cloud servers. E.g. I could replicate my entire application stack locally or run something in R that uses tons of memory. But I can already do these things on other machines.

Can anyone chime in on why, from a software engineering perspective, it might be beneficial to replicate these systems locally? The only thing I can figure is that I would have a test system that I could completely blow up without any harm and I would have a backup of everything on my machine.
 
I’m very conflicted. 64gb could make it possible to do things locally that I would need to run through remote workstations or on cloud servers. E.g. I could replicate my entire application stack locally or run something in R that uses tons of memory. But I can already do these things on other machines.

Can anyone chime in on why, from a software engineering perspective, it might be beneficial to replicate these systems locally? The only thing I can figure is that I would have a test system that I could completely blow up without any harm and I would have a backup of everything on my machine.
I have also ended up using cloud servers , but once you move away from micro instances for any testing / labs , the costs start to increase and additionally there is a risk with getting into unknown costs with the cloud with storage, instance types etc. and no current cloud provider be it AWS, Azure, GCP as far as I’m aware providing a way to enforce a limit on your monthly costs or even paid for cloud compute up front (pre-paid) — if you get carried away or due to lack of awareness , you could potentially end up in a very desperate situation with a hefty bill.

to be able to run your VMs comfortably on a local machine would be So much more convenient in comparison for most use cases - of course the workstation / desktop option is there as an alternative I agree but wouldn’t it be great if you could do it on a MacBook Pro.
 
Can anyone chime in on why, from a software engineering perspective, it might be beneficial to replicate these systems locally?

I don't think direct cost is a great comparison because it's so variable, but as a rough guide, if you're at the point where 64GB opens up possibilities, that means you likely want to allocate ~25GB + in memory across one or more instances. At this point you're in the range of $50-$150/month (prices vary wildly) - from the base model MBP16 up to 64GB is $800 USD, so you're better off cost-wise in somewhere from 5 to 24 months, depending on what remote instances you need, how long they run for, etc.

How much data does it need to store, to work against? If you need to say, process a 100GB data set on a remote machine, that data has to be accessible somehow, so you need to store it remotely, and unless you can upload 100GB in the blink of an eye (I know I certainly can't) you need to store it permanently in a location close to the virtual machine(s), and hopefully in a manner accessible to them. (If you're curious, a 100GB EBS volume adds ~$12 a month to an EC2 instance, 100GB of Linode Block storage is ~$10 a month)


In terms of technical benefits:

You have more choice locally - if you work on a project that uses say Vagrant, or Docker for a dev env, trying to run that remotely with the same level of local interaction (i.e. project files updated instantly in the VM, port mappings, direct network access to the instance, etc).

With a local VM(s) you are 100% in control of the environment it runs in - disk space available, memory available, CPU core count, network type, network addressing, even the type of hypervisor it runs on, the management layer if any, etc.

Then consider how reliable/fast your network connection is? Do you work from the same place all the time?

How latency critical is what you're working on?

Do you work on concurrent projects? On my aforementioned mini (but usable on a MBP if it had enough memory) I have 40 Vagrantfiles - each one represents a separate environment for a project (a few have two Vagrantfiles, e.g. one for normal dev/build work and one to simulate specific test conditions) - which collectively define about 50 VMs. I would expect most people work on less things than my example, but is it literally 1? If not, is it even remotely feasible to run different projects on a 'shared' remote VM?

Without knowing what you do or how you (like to) work, it's a bit of a guessing game, but that's my experience at least, in a heavily VM-focussed workflow.
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no current cloud provider be it AWS, Azure, GCP
FYI (excluding the context of, I think local VMs are a better solution if you have enough memory) if you're just running a VM (i.e. EC2 instance in AWS terminology) and you don't actively spin it up/down as you need it, a regular VPS host like Linode or Digital Ocean/etc is likely significantly cheaper.
 
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Yep, that way you can accurately gauge what is needed and not over (or under) buy. Its hard not to justify 16GB it seems, though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Less than 16 GB in 2019 is under-spec and a risk IMHO.
32 GB (for desktop at least, 16 GB for notebook), in non-apple-pricing-fantasy-land is the sweet spot at the moment in terms of cost vs. capacity.

But yeah, in apple-fantasy-land, its a hard sell if you don't need it - but you can't upgrade. So make sure you figure out what you need...
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Why to do things locally on your machine vs. cloud?

  • if you're offline. yes, not everywhere has internet, or fast internet. even places that do have fast internet have outages occasionally, if your stuff is local you can still work.
  • local SSD > network bandwidth
  • local (as in, local-host) network connectivity options, you can replicate stuff in an isolated environment off network
  • 3d graphics (or heavy 2d graphics for that matter) if you work with them don't generally work well over remote connections

Don't get me wrong. Cloud makes sense for a lot of stuff, but so does local machine hosting in some circumstances. i can spin up clones of stuff and create advanced networking simulations (including simulation of packet loss, jitter, latency, etc.) on my local machine much, much more quickly than i can in a cloud environment.
 
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There seem to be a tonne of people here doing code-related stuff, but don't forget composers absolutely love RAM! My current large orchestral template floats between 45 and 55GB when fully-loaded, and the option to be able to seamlessly transition to the macbook for those sessions is nuts. I was twiddling my thumbs waiting for a 32GB 13" to replace my 2013 macbook pro, but I'm seriously tempted by the 16" now...
 
Interesting thread. I guess if you're 3d modeling, or music production, etc., those apps really do need the jump from 32 to 64gb. From the data analysis standpoint, I'm finding though most data that will not fit onto a 32gb system won't fit on 64 gb, either. For example, I read in a 35GB json file that takes up 124gb of memory, so that's going to leverage a ton of swap space either way.

And there are ways around this, reading data as a stream. And when it comes to ML models, do you really need to read in your entire dataset? Many approaches can work on mini-batches. So I'm curious, what are these use cases that you need to read in massive dataset into memory all at once?
 
Nonsense, is totally dependant on the users needs. Good that Apple has the option, although it should be far more competitively priced, not another mechanism to "milk" those who have a real need.

Personally I may look to a 64GB RAM capable notebook for the next cycle as I rarely see less than 20/25GB utilisation of 32GB on my primary notebook's these days, even my UMPC has 16GB and it can utilise it. After all Professional hardware is expected to push the boundaries, not artificially limit them...

Q-6
 
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Nonsense, is totally dependant on the users needs. Good that Apple has the option, although it should be far more competitively priced, not another mechanism to "milk" those who have a real need.

Personally I may look to a 64GB RAM capable notebook for the next cycle as I rarely see less than 20/25GB utilisation of 32GB on my primary notebook's these days, even my UMPC has 16GB and it can utilise it. After all Professional hardware is expected to push the boundaries, not artificially limit them...

Q-6
unless your memory pressure is yellow/red using 20/25gb of 32gb is completely fine
 
It's offered as an option for a reason.
Those who need 64, they already know.
If you are uncertain, and wondering if it's needed in the future, you don't need it.
 
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In dealing with large photographic files (a couple of gigabytes after print resizing), I run over 32 GB in use with relative frequency. I've driven usage up to about 48 GB - admittedly, this is an unusual photographic workflow, but I'm glad my photo workstation is a 16" MBP with 64 GB of RAM.

Partly because of its large RAM capacity, it's the first MBP in years that can compete with a decent desktop of the same era.
 
admittedly, this is an unusual photographic workflow
I don't think anyone (well at least I'm not) is saying there's never a use case for 64GB, but I think its pretty rare, even you mention how rare it is. I think for the clear majority of buyers of the MBP, 16GB is going to be enough.

I think its human nature for people to opt for the most they can get when they know they'll not be able to upgrade later, so last year people were configuring their MBPS with 32 for "future proofing" and now many are doing the same with 64, even though imo, 16 would be fine.
 
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It will never hurt to have more RAM... when i bought my cMP it only came as a base model with 2GB i think. But then after doing research I found that OWC had 32GB cheaper than just buying 16GB. However, even though I have 32GB I don't notice a difference... here is my current usage.

Screen Shot 2020-01-09 at 7.23.06 AM.png
 
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I don't notice a difference.
That's because you had sufficient ram prior to upgrading. For example, configuring a machine with 64GB, even if you only need 16. That largely means there's 48GB of ram not being used.
 
The whole premise of this is total nonsense.

If you need more than 32 GB, then 64 GB is a wise buy. If you don't it's not. A blanket statement about this is just ridiculous.

PS: MacRumors, you do NOT have my permission to use any cookies.
 
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Very few would actually need it, and by the time is becomes the norm to tap into that amount of RAM while computing the rest of the MBP will have dated.

Get 16-32GB now, and 3-4 years down the road when 64 is the new "32" you switch over to 64GB and also whatever new processors and graphics are out at the time.
I'm planning on getting the 64gb RAM model as I plan to use the laptop as a mobile VMWARE lab. The 8 core/16 thread CPU combined with that much RAM is perfect for running Cisco router/switch labs (each router doesn't require a whole lot of CPU but needs around 2-3 gigs of RAM) and virtual servers/F5 virtual labs can use a bunch of RAM as well, so this gives me a lot more flexibility. I've built a couple of Cisco VIRL labs that needed more than 32gb RAM immediately despite the need for only a few CPU cores.
 
As long as you are not using more than 32 GB of RAM right now, it might be wiser to go with 32GB and get a bigger internal SSD (as scratch disk).
 
Upgrading the base 16" machine to 64GB is $800.


Another thing it has, is Windows.


Nope, not that either. 512GB to 8TB SSD is $2.4K - maybe that's what you're thinking of?
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If someone is asking for recommendations and their use case is "browse facebook" my recommendation to them would be an iPad.

For someone who actually wants a computer to do something more than that, an upgrade from 16 to 32GB adds just 16% to the cost, but will undoubtedly extend the usable life of the machine. My 2011 MBP17 was used practically every day for software development and ops/sysadmin work until about a year ago, thanks to maxing the RAM at 16GB (yes aftermarket max, Apple max was only ever 8GB) shortly after purchase.

Most consumer apps are not CPU or GPU intensive, but plenty use a metric **** ton of memory because files get bigger, developers get 'lazy', etc. I generally recommend not to use Electron based apps, but if you want/need to, you'll appreciate as much memory as you can get - sure some are not complete trash, but the majority of them are red hot flaming dumpster tire fires when it comes to memory use.

So, if you can't afford the extra $400, then no, don't get 32GB. But if you can, you're extending the life of it - either for you personally, or, for someone else - the higher spec, the more likely someone else can make use of it when you're done - either someone you give it to (e.g. a relative or charity), or someone you sell it to.
From what I gather, Dells are very capable under Linux, especially today. If you have an nVidia card, you have to take a couple of extra steps during the initial install (basically override the default driver) but that's it, so this machine should be able to very effectively run without windows.
 
That's because you had sufficient ram prior to upgrading. For example, configuring a machine with 64GB, even if you only need 16. That largely means there's 48GB of ram not being used.
macOS will still utilize more ram because more ram is available. However your point of “needing it” is still valid.

but I mean let’s be honest...the only reason this is a conversation (for me at least) is because apples ram upgrades are so exorbitantly expensive. I would have gotten 64gb if it didn’t cost me an extra 800 even though 32gb is enough for my workflow now at least
 
I work with 4-5 VMs per day and I can make due with 16GB.... Now think about that.

But I do know people with 64GB and fill it up in Zbrush, Final Cut and Logic.
 
Come on Apple! Make the base model for the 13" 16GB & 16" at 32GB for the same base price.

Then do the same with iMac 21.5" at 16GB & iMac 27" at 32GB for the same base price.
 
From what I gather, Dells are very capable under Linux
Great, next time I want a laptop for a server I’ll try that. While I want a desktop that isn’t a dumpster fire of poor decisions, indecision and conflicting decisions, I’ll avoid a Linux desktop.



I work with 4-5 VMs per day and I can make due with 16GB.... Now think about that.

without the context of how much memory those VMs have or if they’re memory constrained, that’s kind of meaningless.
 
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There actually are (rare) situations where people use laptops as servers - think remote movie sets!
There are possibly also some classified situations???
 
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