6800GT no longer available as BTO option.

Little Endian

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 9, 2003
677
31
Honolulu
Thanks to Roz for point this out:

I was just wondering why the 6800GT is no longer offered as a BTO option with a new PowerMac. THe Ultra is still offered but will delay ship time by about a month. The 6800GT is still available for ordering seperately at the AppleStore as an Upgrade kit and has a 1-2 day ship time you just can't BTO anymore. So basically the best BTO card available for the PowerMac G5 that will ship in less than a month is the 9800XT.

I personally believe the 6800GT was the best deal the best deal as one could add one BTO for only $350. Much cheaper than the Ultra at $450 and even a new X800 at $499. The 6800GT offered the best value for performance.
 

Mord

macrumors G4
Aug 24, 2003
10,091
21
UK
maybe this will be the new standard card in the next revision g5 and apple is stockpiling them to make sure they have enough
 

TyleRomeo

macrumors 6502a
Mar 22, 2002
888
0
New York
Little Endian said:
Thanks to Roz for point this out:

I was just wondering why the 6800GT is no longer offered as a BTO option with a new PowerMac. THe Ultra is still offered but will delay ship time by about a month. The 6800GT is still available for ordering seperately at the AppleStore as an Upgrade kit and has a 1-2 day ship time you just can't BTO anymore. So basically the best BTO card available for the PowerMac G5 that will ship in less than a month is the 9800XT.

I personally believe the 6800GT was the best deal the best deal as one could add one BTO for only $350. Much cheaper than the Ultra at $450 and even a new X800 at $499. The 6800GT offered the best value for performance.
the X800 outperforms the GT in almost all test I've seen and keeps up with the ultra.

Tyler
 

Little Endian

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 9, 2003
677
31
Honolulu
Hector said:
maybe this will be the new standard card in the next revision g5 and apple is stockpiling them to make sure they have enough
I was thinking the same thing as well however I doubt Apple would do that as it still is a very high end expensive GPU to be using as a stock video card. I would surmise that they would use a 9800 series card as stock before using a 6800 series card. Even the 9800 would be a stretch as it is still pricey. I can picture Apple using a NVdia 6200-6600 or ATI X300-x700 GPU as stock assuming we get the newest low end and mid Range GPUs and if not Apple will probably use 9600XT for the new low end while dumping the 5200Ultra alltogheter. If we are luck we might see a 9800XT or 6800GT offered in the most expensive PowerMac as a standard option.

I just thought that maybe Apple dumped the 6800GT so they could offer the X800XT as a BTO option instead? They really need to offer a single slot solution for high end graphics and perhaps this is what they intend to do.
 

Little Endian

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 9, 2003
677
31
Honolulu
TyleRomeo said:
the X800 outperforms the GT in almost all test I've seen and keeps up with the ultra.

Tyler
That's only because the Mac Drivers for the 6800 series is crappy. In the PC world the 6800GT trounces the X800 in almost all areas except for Half Life 2 which is not even available for the mac. The 6800GT is only slightly slower less than 10% in most cases compared to the Ultra and the only place where the X800 really shines in comparison is in Halo with FSAA enabled. Since the X800 is not availble as BTO the 6800Gt was the best deal as it could be had for only $350 and for the most part was roughly equal or only 10% slower for a 30% cost saving.

http://barefeats.com/radx800.html
note that the differences are exaggerated because of the high resolution used at lower resolutions the differences are even smaller. The Nv cards still provide best performance with Motion though.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2290
Note that the 6800Ultra and GT smash the X800 series and even the newest X850XT in most areas except for Half Life 2. Something is deffinitely wrong with Apple's impementation of Nvidia Drivers and 10.3.8 still does not fix it!! Tiger is my only hope right now on improved Drivers for the 6800series.

The 6800GT still wallops the X800XT series and even the $600+ X850XT Platinum at DOOM III. Half Life is the only Game where ATI cards have a clear advantage but unfortunately is not available for the mac and doubt it ever will be.
 

jwdawso

macrumors regular
Jan 13, 2002
120
7
Little Endian said:
Thanks to Roz for point this out:

I was just wondering why the 6800GT is no longer offered as a BTO option with a new PowerMac. THe Ultra is still offered but will delay ship time by about a month. The 6800GT is still available for ordering seperately at the AppleStore as an Upgrade kit and has a 1-2 day ship time you just can't BTO anymore. So basically the best BTO card available for the PowerMac G5 that will ship in less than a month is the 9800XT.

I personally believe the 6800GT was the best deal the best deal as one could add one BTO for only $350. Much cheaper than the Ultra at $450 and even a new X800 at $499. The 6800GT offered the best value for performance.

Interesting development... (The delay when I put the dual 2.5 with an ultra was just 1-2 days.) But this certainly portends to something!
 

Bear

macrumors G3
Jul 23, 2002
8,089
4
Sol III - Terra
Little Endian said:
...
THe Ultra is still offered but will delay ship time by about a month.
...
The delay varies by which PowerMac you add the 6800 Ultra to.
The single 1.8 is 2-3 Weeks, all the other models seem to be 2-4 days, which is standard for CTO.

The odd part is no other CTO options make the single 1.8 take longer than 2-4 days.
 

Little Endian

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 9, 2003
677
31
Honolulu
Bear said:
The delay varies by which PowerMac you add the 6800 Ultra to.
The single 1.8 is 2-3 Weeks, all the other models seem to be 2-4 days, which is standard for CTO.

The odd part is no other CTO options make the single 1.8 take longer than 2-4 days.
It is also odd that the 6800Ultra Upgrade Kit by itself still quotes 3-5 weeks.
 

Platform

macrumors 68030
Dec 30, 2004
2,881
0
Hector said:
maybe this will be the new standard card in the next revision g5 and apple is stockpiling them to make sure they have enough
That would be SO good.
Then you would have a PM with great graphics and you did not have to spend more money, nor have to wait longer :D
I would like the next rev PM SP so I hope it becomes real good, but if we got a good gpu and other stuff, would they price bumb it :eek: , has that ever happend before :confused:
 

absolut_mac

macrumors 6502a
Oct 30, 2003
935
0
Dallas, Texas
TyleRomeo said:
the X800 outperforms the GT in almost all test I've seen and keeps up with the ultra.
ATI all the way. A better product with superior support.

Anyone else notice how nVidia always produce outstanding benchmarks on the prototype cards that are sent out to Extremetech and all the other test sites, but then have great difficulty producing cards that actually perform up to spec?

That was the reason I gave up on them and switched to ATI and have never looked back.

Besides, even if nVidia do produce something that is marginally superior to ATI's top of the line offering, one can rest assured that ATI won't let them stay ahead for too long :)
 

Platform

macrumors 68030
Dec 30, 2004
2,881
0
absolut_mac said:
ATI all the way. A better prouct with superior support.

Anyone else notice how nVidia always produce outstanding benchmarks on the prototype cards that are sent out to Extremetech and all the other test sites, but then have great difficulty producing cards that actuall perform up to spec?

That was the reason I gave up on them and switched to ATI and have never looked back.

Besides, even if nVidia do produce soemthing that is marginally superior to ATI's top of the line offering, one can rest assured that ATI won't let them stay ahead for too long :)
I have never bought top-of-the-line gpu, so for me both ATI and nVIDIA seems OK, but look's like ATI has been better on drivers for mac then nVIDIA or :confused:
 

Mechcozmo

macrumors 603
Jul 17, 2004
5,215
2
Little Endian said:
I was thinking the same thing as well however I doubt Apple would do that as it still is a very high end expensive GPU to be using as a stock video card.
Get back to tradition Apple! This card should be in the iMacs by now! At least give us cards that make us feel proud! We used to have graphics cards that were the best of the best for years. Now we have old technology coming in the top of the line products. Give us what we want!

I think that Apple would do great to make those cards standard in the new G5s, or at least the new top of the line G5s.
 

Kreamy

macrumors member
Jan 2, 2005
92
0
Mechcozmo said:
Get back to tradition Apple! This card should be in the iMacs by now! At least give us cards that make us feel proud! We used to have graphics cards that were the best of the best for years. Now we have old technology coming in the top of the line products. Give us what we want!

I think that Apple would do great to make those cards standard in the new G5s, or at least the new top of the line G5s.
They dont put them in for a simple reason: They arent needed by the mainstream consumer.

Why would they put a 6800 in an iMac? are any people that use the iMac pro GFX designers? the mainstream consumer will play a few games here and there but still no gamer would buy a mac in the first place.

They dont come standard on the PMac either because some pro's dont even need it. People that use the mac for mathematic calculations, or other scientific reasons. Some sound pros use them as well, and they dont need good GFX cards. The good thing is that theyre available if a gfx designer needs them
 

Platform

macrumors 68030
Dec 30, 2004
2,881
0
Kreamy said:
They dont put them in for a simple reason: They arent needed by the mainstream consumer.

Why would they put a 6800 in an iMac? are any people that use the iMac pro GFX designers? the mainstream consumer will play a few games here and there but still no gamer would buy a mac in the first place.

They dont come standard on the PMac either because some pro's dont even need it. People that use the mac for mathematic calculations, or other scientific reasons. Some sound pros use them as well, and they dont need good GFX cards. The good thing is that theyre available if a gfx designer needs them
It was never ment to be in the iMac but the PM, (PM is the pro machine from apple) and if apple could do that they would be back where they belong. At the top again with these cards. (there are many graphic designers that work with mac's that could use one of those cards ;)
A better gpu let's thing's go faster and that is what we want+ then the next PM would maby support graphics fully for OS 11 :D
 

G5orbust

macrumors 65816
Jun 14, 2002
1,309
0
Mechcozmo said:
Get back to tradition Apple! This card should be in the iMacs by now! At least give us cards that make us feel proud! We used to have graphics cards that were the best of the best for years. Now we have old technology coming in the top of the line products. Give us what we want!

I think that Apple would do great to make those cards standard in the new G5s, or at least the new top of the line G5s.

I wouldnt go around calling a 6600 Ultra "old technology"....

The only real break Apple has had in years was when they got the Geforce 4 before everyone else, but that card sucked so it was all for nothing.
 

Little Endian

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 9, 2003
677
31
Honolulu
Mechcozmo said:
Get back to tradition Apple! This card should be in the iMacs by now! At least give us cards that make us feel proud! We used to have graphics cards that were the best of the best for years. Now we have old technology coming in the top of the line products. Give us what we want!

I think that Apple would do great to make those cards standard in the new G5s, or at least the new top of the line G5s.
Yeah good luck trying to fit the Ultra or GT in the imac!! Damned thing is a foot long!! and would melt imacs LCD. Really the 6800GT and Ultra are still anything but low end the GT still retails for about $400+ for the PC and 6800Ultra Cards can still be hard to find for Under $500. I do agree that the imac deserves a much better GPU but something cheaper, compact and cooler would have to be used.
 

isgoed

macrumors 6502
Jun 5, 2003
328
0
In the dutch store, the 6800GT is not available for the past week. The week before that it had a delivery time of 4 weeks. I just thought it was a dutch supply issue, but apperantly more is going on. It's indeed weird that the 6800ultra has no problems.

To speculate: It could be a transition to PCI-express and they which to clear the AGP channes (but i doubt it). It also would not have made sense since, in case of a supply stop the shipping would just also stop and not get a delay of 4 weeks.
 

pinto32

macrumors 6502
Oct 19, 2003
361
0
PA
Little Endian said:
That's only because the Mac Drivers for the 6800 series is crappy. In the PC world the 6800GT trounces the X800 in almost all areas except for Half Life 2 which is not even available for the mac. The 6800GT is only slightly slower less than 10% in most cases compared to the Ultra and the only place where the X800 really shines in comparison is in Halo with FSAA enabled. Since the X800 is not availble as BTO the 6800Gt was the best deal as it could be had for only $350 and for the most part was roughly equal or only 10% slower for a 30% cost saving.

http://barefeats.com/radx800.html
note that the differences are exaggerated because of the high resolution used at lower resolutions the differences are even smaller. The Nv cards still provide best performance with Motion though.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2290
Note that the 6800Ultra and GT smash the X800 series and even the newest X850XT in most areas except for Half Life 2. Something is deffinitely wrong with Apple's impementation of Nvidia Drivers and 10.3.8 still does not fix it!! Tiger is my only hope right now on improved Drivers for the 6800series.

The 6800GT still wallops the X800XT series and even the $600+ X850XT Platinum at DOOM III. Half Life is the only Game where ATI cards have a clear advantage but unfortunately is not available for the mac and doubt it ever will be.

Actually, I can't see any test in which the GeForce "smashes" the Radeon other than Doom 3 test at Anandtech, which leads me to beleive that you are most likely on crack. :p

The only way that you could have come to your conclusions in to compared 2 year old cards (Radeon 9800) to 2 month old cards (GeForce 6800 Ultra), or $650 cards to $100 cards
 

Little Endian

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 9, 2003
677
31
Honolulu
pinto32 said:
Actually, I can't see any test in which the GeForce "smashes" the Radeon other than Doom 3 test at Anandtech, which leads me to beleive that you are most likely on crack. :p

The only way that you could have come to your conclusions in to compared 2 year old cards (Radeon 9800) to 2 month old cards (GeForce 6800 Ultra), or $650 cards to $100 cards
Perhaps smashes is an over exageration but if you average all scores the Geforce 6800Ultra maintains about an overall 8-15% averaged overall performance lead over the X800XT. In the Eleven Benchmarks done the X800XT only wins 2 out of 11 in Half Life 2 where it maintains a 10% lead over the 6800Ultra and in Far Cry without AA and AF endabled where it only has a 7.3% lead over the 6800 Ultra.

The 6800Ultra wins 9 out of those 11 tests and does so by even greater margins than the X800XT. In Doom III the 6800 Ultra is 29.5% and 34% respectively faster than the X800XT a much greater lead than the X800XT strongest point of Half Life 2 where it has a 10% advantage. In the other 8 Benchmarks the 6800Ultra has a speed advantage of 3%-12%

Read Carefully and Do the math before you open your mouth. If you were to average out the scores even the 6800GT averages out to having an overall speed advantage over the X800XT. Oh and by the way both the 6800Ultra as well as the X800XT are actually almost 9 month old Cards. There are also no $100 cards listed on the benchmarks nor were there any $650 cards listed. If anything it is the X850XT Platinum that is a $650 card as they are about as rare as 6800UltraExtreme cards. The 6800Ultra can be found for under $500 for both PC and Mac, 6800GT can be found for under $400. The X800XT is almost imposible to find under $500 for the PC and in some cases still sells above $600. Sure the X800XT mac edition sells for $500 but it is underclocked compared to the PC version that is why ATI has been able to ship any at that $500 price point for the Mac. As I said before the only reason the X800XT does so well on the Mac is because of Apple's Crappy Nvidia drivers if it were not for that the Geforce 6800Ultra and GT would be beating the ATI cards by an even greater margin than it does on the PC.
 

Converted2Truth

macrumors 6502a
Feb 6, 2004
608
0
Hell@HighAltitude
The powermac should have the 9800 pro as standard for all configurations. If someone doesn't need it, then they could downgrade it to the 5200Ultra or 9600XT. I think the 9800 is just slightly overkill for a professional workstation. But currently, the 5200Ultra is bloody humiliating for these systems.
 

wrldwzrd89

macrumors G5
Jun 6, 2003
12,106
73
Solon, OH
Converted2Truth said:
The powermac should have the 9800 pro as standard for all configurations. If someone doesn't need it, then they could downgrade it to the 5200Ultra or 9600XT. I think the 9800 is just slightly overkill for a professional workstation. But currently, the 5200Ultra is bloody humiliating for these systems.
I agree. The next PowerMac update should have the 9600XT as the weakest option, if not the 9800 Pro. Higher-end PowerMacs would get either a 6800 variant, an X800 variant, or both options. The X850 won't be appearing in Macs for a good while (if it appears at all) - I'd expect a delay of at least 4 months, and it could be as long as 7 months.
 

Demon Hunter

macrumors 68020
Mar 30, 2004
2,245
38
Little Endian said:
The 6800Ultra wins 9 out of those 11 tests and does so by even greater margins than the X800XT. In Doom III the 6800 Ultra is 29.5% and 34% respectively faster than the X800XT a much greater lead than the X800XT strongest point of Half Life 2 where it has a 10% advantage. In the other 8 Benchmarks the 6800Ultra has a speed advantage of 3%-12%
  1. Learn how to use periods. Run-on sentences = bad.
  2. Doom 3 was optimized for the 6800 chipset from the start. Otherwise the X800 would have shown closely similar, if not greater performance.
  3. Those early benchmarks really mean nothing, especially considering how much hype the 6800 has received.
  4. The X800 XL brings the price down near the 6800GT.

I agree, the 5200 Ultra is just a sick embarrassment. It would make sense that the X800 is the new replacement, since the current PowerMac design only has 3 PCI-X slots, and the X800 only uses one.
 

MacsRgr8

macrumors 604
Sep 8, 2002
7,830
1,120
The Netherlands
devman said:
On the Australian store the 6800GT is still an option. In fact, the 6800 Ultra is NOT.

?
That is strange, to say the least.

IMHO, no-one in his right mind would buy the 6800 GT, now that the X800 XT is here for the same price.
So, I could understand the 6800 GT leaving the scene....

But the Ultra gone? That one still has the "feeling" of being the "Ultra" card for the G5 as this one has both the Dual Dual DVI and being the biggest.
Doom ]|[ will prove which one is really king of the cards :)

But then again... you guys are down under. Maybe your Apple Store has gone upside-down too :p :D