6S display still 326 PPI

[glowrider]

Absolutely, but when it comes to the iPhone 6 vs 6 Plus, it's a pretty darn fair to compare, all things considered - when it comes to JUST resolution.

I had both. I was exposed to both. They were very, very similar but certainly not the same. Don't have a dog in this fight, just think these discussions could be more substantive. Look at the iPad mini as an exemplar of significant upgrades to the details not being a greater point of emphasis to avg consumer.

And we will almost certainly find that the new cameras will be substantially better. There are some serious sensor advances at work in there, though with other trade offs. And the battery to accommodate the Taptic Engine. Etc etc

 

[glowrider]

Absolutely, but when it comes to the iPhone 6 vs 6 Plus, it's a pretty darn fair to compare, all things considered - when it comes to JUST resolution.

I don't think it tells the whole story. The 6/6+ arrive at their respective ppi in very different ways. But if you want to correlate the superior overall quality of the 6+ Screen to its ppi against the 6 I can't stop you.

 

[WilliamG]

I had both. I was exposed to both. They were very, very similar but certainly not the same. Don't have a dog in this fight, just think these discussions could be more substantive. Look at the iPad mini as an exemplar of significant upgrades to the details not being a greater point of emphasis to avg consumer.

And we will almost certainly find that the new cameras will be substantially better. There are some serious sensor advances at work in there, though with other trade offs. And the battery to accommodate the Taptic Engine. Etc etc

Actually, I bet we won't see these cameras as "substantially" better at all. Potentially a hair more detail, but we need some really significant sensor improvements at this point. And for posting on Facebook or Instagram etc, I'm going to say you'll see zero difference.

Which is why the camera is the least important upgrade, for me, going from the 6 Plus to the 6s Plus.

 

[WilliamG]

I don't think it tells the whole story. The 6/6+ arrive at their respective ppi in very different ways. But if you want to correlate the superior overall quality of the 6+ Screen to its ppi against the 6 I can't stop you.

But by that logic you can't compare anything to anything. At some point you just have to take a step back and say, "OK, this text isn't as sharp at the same size, with the same font, in the same OS, in the same browser, as the other device."

And that's what's happening with the 6 -> 6 Plus comparisons.

 

[glowrider]

Actually, I bet we won't see these cameras as "substantially" better at all. Potentially a hair more detail, but we need some really significant sensor improvements at this point. And for posting on Facebook or Instagram etc, I'm going to say you'll see zero difference.

Which is why the camera is the least important upgrade, for me, going from the 6 Plus to the 6s Plus.

The camera will be much improved. The sensor is a dynamic shift away from previous sensor technology. These are finer details that will allow the 12mp file to have better dynamic range, sharpness and still perform admirably in low light situations. This is a significant upgrade for those times not being posted to social media.

Not to mention color rendering of the file should be better. (Edit)

 

[glowrider]

But by that logic you can't compare anything to anything. At some point you just have to take a step back and say, "OK, this text isn't as sharp at the same size, with the same font, in the same OS, in the same browser, as the other device."

And that's what's happening with the 6 -> 6 Plus comparisons.

You can compare apples to apples. The 6+ has different rendering and downsampling than the rendering of the 6. I don't find ppi valid for comparison, but I do agree that higher ppi tends to occur on superior displays, with optimized graphics.

 

[Supermallet]

You can compare apples to apples. The 6+ has different rendering and downsampling than the rendering of the 6. I don't find ppi valid for comparison, but I do agree that higher ppi tends to occur on superior displays, with optimized graphics.

You would think that the rendering and downsampling should actually degrade the quality of the 6 Plus, versus the 6 which is natively rendering at its max resolution, but most people agree that the 6 Plus has a superior display.

 

[WilliamG]

You would think that the rendering and downsampling should actually degrade the quality of the 6 Plus, versus the 6 which is natively rendering at its max resolution, but most people agree that the 6 Plus has a superior display.

That depends. Downsampling often improves image quality...!

In any case, it doesn't matter. The 6 Plus has a better display, period. And personally, I'd never, ever go back to the 6-size without a bump to 1080p.

 

[WilliamG]

The camera will be much improved. The sensor is a dynamic shift away from previous sensor technology. These are finer details that will allow the 12mp file to have better dynamic range, sharpness and still perform admirably in low light situations. This is a significant upgrade for those times not being posted to social media.

Not to mention color rendering of the file should be better. (Edit)

I think you'll have to pixel peep to see the difference. Don't get me wrong, - I love image quality improvements (I shoot a 5D MKIII), but I'm not seeing there being a huge difference. I expect there to actually be a slight decrease in image quality in low light. I'll have to google some reviews to see, of course.

 

[WilliamG]

The camera will be much improved. The sensor is a dynamic shift away from previous sensor technology. These are finer details that will allow the 12mp file to have better dynamic range, sharpness and still perform admirably in low light situations. This is a significant upgrade for those times not being posted to social media.

Not to mention color rendering of the file should be better. (Edit)

OK here we go:

From: http://mobilesyrup.com/2015/09/22/iphone-6s-and-iphone-6s-plus-review/

But Apple did regress in one area: low-light performance. Because the 12 megapixel sensor in the new iPhones is roughly the same size as the 8 megapixel sensor in the previous versions, the pixels themselves are smaller (1.22 microns versus 1.5 microns). And despite reduced cross-talk between them, which purportedly lowers noise levels in low-light shots, it’s evident when comparing photos of the previous generation to this one that both of the newer models, the iPhone 6s especially, has to compensate by ratcheting up the light sensitivity, allowing grain and noise to creep in.


iPhone 6s low light


iPhone 6s Plus low light


iPhone 6 low light


iPhone 6 Plus low light

The differences are subtle, but it’s clear that the iPhone 6 Plus captures the best photo. Its optical image stabilization allows the shutter to stay open a quarter of a second, the same length as the iPhone 6s Plus, but the newer phone ramps up the light sensitivity to compensate for the reduced light available to its pixels, increasing the grain. The same thing can be seen between the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6s, though arguably the 6s takes a cleaner photo due to the improved noise handling through the A9’s updated image signal processor.

-----------

Don't get me wrong. I'm sure the new sensor is "better." But the question is whether it's better in a meaningful way for the audience that Apple caters for? For FaceTime front camera, absolutely. For the rear camera for 4K, yes. For actual photography.. a small amount, and for low-light photography - unfortunately it looks like no. I personally would rather have kept an 8MP sensor but improved that low-light ability. But... the world does not revolve around me.

 

[glowrider]

I am in the actual photography camp and I chose my words about low light carefully. It is still admirable performance in low light for a phone sensor, doesn't mean equal to or better than the 6+ which is the better low light performer exactly because of the cell site size.

To me, I am less concerned with the low light trade off , and more focused on dynamic range, color accuracy and detail.

If this sort of approach to resolving cross talk can be brought to mirrorless cams, then that will open up some major opportunities for mixing and matching systems that some people are limited by (Leica wides on a Sony A7xxx for example). It's very impressive.

 

[WilliamG]

I am in the actual photography camp and I chose my words about low light carefully. It is still admirable performance in low light for a phone sensor, doesn't mean equal to or better than the 6+ which is the better low light performer exactly because of the cell site size.

To me, I am less concerned with low light, more concerned with dynamic range, color accuracy and detail.

Well we have different needs, then. To be honest, many (including myself) found the 6 Plus to be a bit of a downgrade from the 5s in some ways. The amount of noise reduction taking place is bananas.

 

[glowrider]

We do have diff needs - but the initial file created is still the same for all users of the same line, for whatever purpose.

I preferred the 6+ to my 5s, personally. I need the stabilized intervention.

This still doesn't replace a single camera I use, but it does cut down on scouting gear and "Polaroids" by 100000000000000%

 

[WilliamG]

We do have diff needs - but the initial file created is still initially the same for all users, for whatever purpose.

Sure, and the initial low-light file is not as good anymore. It's a... *deep breath...* downgrade.

I'm still going to guess that for most people's usages, they won't see any tangible difference between the 6 and the 6s in terms of IQ. And if it's the kind of situation where IQ is the most important, I'm sure as heck not using an iPhone.

 

[glowrider]

Sure, and the initial low-light file is not as good anymore. It's a... *deep breath...* downgrade.

I'm still going to guess that for most people's usages, they won't see any tangible difference between the 6 and the 6s in terms of IQ. And if it's the kind of situation where IQ is the most important, I'm sure as heck not using an iPhone.

When people zoom into the photos they take on their new 6s and see the enhanced level of detail and magnification compared to previous versions, it will be quite obvious. Cropping will certainly improve. Benefit to social users.

 

[WilliamG]

When people zoom into the photos they take on their new 6s and see the enhanced level of detail and magnification compared to previous versions, it will be quite obvious. Cropping will certainly improve. Benefit to social users.

But how much obvious detail will they see? Take this comparison of the 6 Plus to the 6s Plus, at 100%... Can you even tell which is which?


http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/22/review-apples-iphone-6s-and-6s-plus-go-tick/#.ap6re6:CV8a

Again, if we're having to pixel-peep THIS much - at 100% crop...., is there really an improvement at all?

6 Plus on the left, 6s Plus on the right.

I'm extremely picky, and I'd say the 6s Plus is showing a minuscule amount of contrast benefit/dynamic range. But that looks like it's easily addressed in post, or it could just be phone lens variance. Either way, to me it's splitting hairs.

Bottom line: 2GB RAM provides a tangible difference, processor as well, 3D Touch does, too. The camera... well.. right now I'm not seeing anything to get too excited abut (front-facing camera aside).

I have my 6s Plus arriving on Friday. I'm thrilled by a zippier phone, 2GB RAM, 3D Touch, always-on Siri etc. Again, the camera "improvements" are so far down my list of things to be excited about it barely registers!

 

[glowrider]

I'm sorry if you don't see a significant difference. I do and it's obvious even on an iPad. The magnification is greater, the detail is greater and you'll certainly have more people "framing by cropping" and it actually be a decent size still. Cheers.

But how much obvious detail will they see? Take this comparison of the 6 Plus to the 6s Plus, at 100%... Can you even tell which is which?

6 Plus on the left...

http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/22/review-apples-iphone-6s-and-6s-plus-go-tick/#.ap6re6:CV8a

Again, if we're having to pixel-peep THIS much - at 100% crop....

Bottom line: 2GB RAM provides a tangible difference, processor as well, 3D Touch does, too. The camera... well.. right now I'm not seeing anything to get too excited abut (front-facing camera aside).

 

[WilliamG]

I'm sorry if you don't see a significant difference. I do and it's obvious even on an iPad. The magnification is greater, the detail is greater and you'll certainly have more people "framing by cropping" and it actually be a decent size still. Cheers.

It's OK. We can agree to disagree. Note, I didn't say there was no difference. Just that it's not at all significant from what I'm seeing. Of course, I'm going by images posted on the Internets. So I'll wait till Friday to see what it's like when mine shows up.

 

[WilliamG]

I had both. I was exposed to both. They were very, very similar but certainly not the same.

I'll end with quoting you about PPI on the 6 vs 6 Plus. The 6 and 6 Plus are really NOT very, very similar to me. Yet that photo from the 6 Plus vs the 6s Plus above is "significantly" better for you on the 6s Plus? Wha?

So, are you trolling...? Doesn't make sense how you can see a huge difference in the photo and not in the text.

Also, yes, the magnification is of course greater on the 6s Plus. But is that going to make or break a photo for the average Joe? Is the detail level really noticeably greater?

Get this: I do photography, and so does my wife. I showed her both images above without telling her anything about them, and she had to squint at both images on my calibrated 5K iMac and even then, she ended up noticing the banding in the top right area of the sky on the 6s Plus, and thus thinking the 6s Plus the inferior camera. Go figure, right?

Anyway, done here. Enjoy your new phone if you're getting it, and I'll enjoy mine. Perhaps we'll enjoy them for different reasons, but either way, we both win.

 

[jerwin]

OK here we go:

From: http://mobilesyrup.com/2015/09/22/iphone-6s-and-iphone-6s-plus-review/

hasn't anybody heard of manual exposure? If you're going to do comparisons, meter the scene, and then set fstop, sensivitity and exposure time on the cameras. That way, readers can see if the newer sensor is indeed cleaner at ISO 25600, or whatever.

 

[glowrider]

I'll end with quoting you about PPI on the 6 vs 6 Plus. The 6 and 6 Plus are really NOT very, very similar to me. Yet that photo from the 6 Plus vs the 6s Plus above is "significantly" better for you on the 6s Plus? Wha?

So, are you trolling...? Doesn't make sense how you can see a huge difference in the photo and not in the text.

Also, yes, the magnification is of course greater on the 6s Plus. But is that going to make or break a photo for the average Joe? Is the detail level really noticeably greater?

Get this: I do photography, and so does my wife. I showed her both images above without telling her anything about them, and she had to squint at both images on my calibrated 5K iMac and even then, she ended up noticing the banding in the top right area of the sky on the 6s Plus, and thus thinking the 6s Plus the inferior camera. Go figure, right?

Anyway, done here. Enjoy your new phone if you're getting it, and I'll enjoy mine. Perhaps we'll enjoy them for different reasons, but either way, we both win.

The photo is not indicative of any quality of image. They're reviews. I don't expect to find any image worthy of my examination for my particular needs until Friday or Saturday when my 6s+ arrives.

And just as a brief demonstration, I took the image you posted - which is really a down sampled image that's been copied multiple times before it ever got to publication, and did a simple back of the envelope calculation, it's not exact, but that's about a 15% difference just on magnification alone.

Get this: I "do" photography. It's my job, occupation, and passion. Your ownership of a dslr and the combined vision of you and your spouse does not imbue you with a sense of authority in this matter. Cheers.

 

[glowrider]

hasn't anybody heard of manual exposure? If you're going do comparisons, meter the scene, and then set fstop, sensivitity and exposure time on the cameras. That way, readers can see if the newer sensor is indeed cleaner at ISO 25600, or whatever.

No - that is not in the skill set of reviewers, nor is it in the skill set of the majority of iPhone users. Most people will never tax the limits of the sensor in these phones, 5s and on. Thus, no acceptable comparison except the ones you do for yourself, for your needs.

 

[WilliamG]

Get this: I "do" photography. It's my job, occupation, and passion. Your ownership of a dslr and the combined vision of you and your spouse does not imbue you with a sense of authority in this matter. Cheers.

You need to remember that the average iPhone users are NOT like you or me. They're not going to crop in post, because they'll use digital zoom on the iPhone to fill the frame (gross, right?). And either way, those 100% crops, a 15% difference or no, still look terrible.

Also, I'm glad we've ascertained your authority, and how it's more valid than mine/my wife's.

Funny, you never asked what we do to pay the bills. Guess what it is? I'll give you a clue: The average person (my wife in this case) isn't going to use the word "posterization" or "banding" when describing a photo's qualities..

Have a great night.

 

[terraphantm]

It's pretty obvious which one is which based on the 100% zoom shots, but I'd have a hard time telling if the 12MP was scaled down to 8MP

 

[Max(IT)]

Do you even read what you write before you post it?
How does it being made by Samsung take away from its aesthetics?

It's a black and white issue. It's a gorgeous phone.

It's not about aesthetic... It's about the materials used. A typical Samsung phone ...