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i agree. wait it out.
In theory I'd agree, but IIRC, Techie has a rather tight budget (at current pricing, a base Quad was the only MP that would fit), and I don't see the '09's being less expensive than the existing models. If I've gotten this one confused with another member, sorry Techie.

That's going to be a problem, even if the system can be afforded due to upgrades.

So to me, its best to keep the '08 and just put in the necessary upgrades. It will work quite well (it's not a Pentium vs. Nehalem scenario by any means :p), and do so for less money overall (system was cheaper, which leaves more available for the upgrades). It could even allow for an upgrade that would have had to wait for additional funds (which may happen anyway - Techie would need to sort that, and offer information if he wishes). ;)
 
It could even allow for an upgrade that would have had to wait for additional funds (which may happen anyway - Techhie would need to sort that, and offer information if he wishes). ;)

Yeah, but my main thing is buying and selling with the help of Craigslist, I could easily get ~$500 profit out of this machine. Even though it's not exactly a slouch, dumping all of my money into upgrades for a two year old model seems kind of iffy. I know the '10 will most likely be priced at por above the current structure, but that also means a decline in value of older machines, this one included. With the gained profit, I could buy an '09 octad (hopefully not the lame duck 2.26 GHz) or '10 "hexad?", to future-proof myself further.

You never know how Apple is going to treat you as your box ages, and that especially worries me because the one I bought has no remaining AppleCare.
 
Yes, But I come from an age where there was no easy-click solution to enable QE/CI, and my hands were buried in elbow deep in white lego blocks (the shape of kexts, btw :p). I don't want to have to do that sort of tinkering again, especially considering one of the main reasons I'm running vanilla hardware is for simplicity. If I wanted to go down that road, there would be an i7-extreme box sitting on my floor :D
stability also? i guess your line of work would require that too. the "real" thing suits best i guess then.

lego blocks? i love playing lego! :D

In theory I'd agree, but IIRC, Techie has a rather tight budget (at current pricing, a base Quad was the only MP that would fit), and I don't see the '09's being less expensive than the existing models. If I've gotten this one confused with another member, sorry Techie.

That's going to be a problem, even if the system can be afforded due to upgrades.

So to me, its best to keep the '08 and just put in the necessary upgrades. It will work quite well (it's not a Pentium vs. Nehalem scenario by any means :p), and do so for less money overall (system was cheaper, which leaves more available for the upgrades). It could even allow for an upgrade that would have had to wait for additional funds (which may happen anyway - Techie would need to sort that, and offer information if he wishes). ;)

i see your point there. the '08 is great value and by no means any slug. it might indeed be better to go the '08 and then cough up the saved money for the GPU, HDD space etc.

what about the fact that when the 10 MPs come out, the '09s will lose a bit of value, and (hopefully) the '08s will too. even if its $100, when it comes to money it might be a saviour.
 
Yeah, but my main thing is buying and selling with the help of Craigslist, I could easily get ~$500 profit out of this machine.
I'm not saying you can't, as they're highly desired machines right now, as they're a much better value than the '09 systems, and they're not popping up left and right either as a result IMO.

What I'm concerned about however, is the fact that you take that $500 and add it to what you already had, will probably get you a system, but nothing much left (if anything) for upgrades.


Even though it's not exactly a slouch, dumping all of my money into upgrades for a two year old model seems kind of iffy. I know the '10 will most likely be priced at por above the current structure, but that also means a decline in value of older machines, this one included. With the gained profit, I could buy an '09 octad (hopefully not the lame duck 2.26 GHz) or '10 "hexad?", to future-proof myself further.
Keep in mind though:
1. The '08 uses EFI64 firmware = you'll still be able to upgrade graphics cards and OS X once it goes purely to K64 (a big deal IMO).
2. Better Value, given the increase in MSRP for the '09's (and will follow with the 2010's). Remember, the 3.2GHz '08 Octad beats the 2.26GHz '09 in both single and multi-threaded applications (using Cinebench results), yet it's the same price now via the refurb store ($3299 for either machine right now).
3. Software is quite a bit behind hardware development, and will be awhile before it catches up with your machine. Long enough you'd have gotten a new machine anyway IMO, given professional software development schedules.

This all means that the '08's will still be desirable systems for awhile yet IMO. Past the release of the 2010's for sure. ;)

You never know how Apple is going to treat you as your box ages, and that especially worries me because the one I bought has no remaining AppleCare.
A valid concern, and is why the refurb store is the ideal place to buy a previous system IMO, as you can get full Apple Care as well as extend it (which is highly recommended, given the repair costs associated with MP's).
 
A valid concern, and is why the refurb store is the ideal place to buy a previous system IMO, as you can get full Apple Care as well as extend it (which is highly recommended, given the repair costs associated with MP's).

This alone is the main factor prompting me to sell, I don't want to be responsible for a logic board replacement bill :eek:

That said, there is nothing stopping me from fishing around for another '08 being $500 richer, especially if the prices will go down a bit with the '10 introduction. Even using the machine without some sort of warranty will eat away at my peace of mind until I sell it anyway.
 
i see your point there. the '08 is great value and by no means any slug. it might indeed be better to go the '08 and then cough up the saved money for the GPU, HDD space etc.
This is where the better value aspect kicks in, as the saved funds can offset some of the upgrade costs (as the upgrade components will be on par no matter if it's an '08, '09, or '10 - there can be some variance due to the RAM market and adapters in certain situations).

what about the fact that when the 10 MPs come out, the '09s will lose a bit of value, and (hopefully) the '08s will too. even if its $100, when it comes to money it might be a saviour.
The '09 systems may not drop that much though, as it's possible to use the same board,... and just update the firmware. I also expect the '08's to hold their value given the recent price increases aren't going to disappear (as in little to no drop at all for '08's).

I'd think they'd add on USB 3.0 (same component package so there's no need for any PCB re-work) to help differentiate the models. There's even a good chance some of the same CPU P/N's currently used could carry over (i.e. Quad and Octad systems). This is idea is currently based on the fact that a full parts list hasn't been disclosed yet for the 36xx and 56xx lines, so I've no idea of the clocks, core counts, or pricing offered.

Hex parts I expect to be CTO upgrades, and will be meant for the top end only ( = expensive).

This alone is the main factor prompting me to sell, I don't want to be responsible for a logic board replacement bill :eek:
Understandable, and a choice you have to make. There have been some that have had failures, but I don't think the % is high. But the data (posts on MR) is annecdotal at best.

That said, there is nothing stopping me from fishing around for another '08 being $500 richer, especially if the prices will go down a bit with the '10 introduction. Even using the machine without some sort of warranty will eat away at my peace of mind until I sell it anyway.
If you do sell, wait to see the 2010 models first (specs and pricing), as you might end up hurting yourself.

BTW, what exactly are you going to do with it?
(I ask, as I'm not sure you could use more than what an Octad offers, no matter if it's an '08, 09, or '10, in terms of multi-threaded software, since very little can actually use that many cores, let alone 12 physical cores in a DP Xeon 56xx system).
 
I'd think they'd add on USB 3.0 (same component package so there's no need for any PCB re-work) to help differentiate the models.
current advantages of USB3.0, if they were to be offered in 10 MPs... ->backups might be a bit faster :p most people would have internal drives rather then externals.

There's even a good chance some of the same CPU P/N's currently used could carry over (i.e. Quad and Octad systems). This is idea is currently based on the fact that a full parts list hasn't been disclosed yet for the 36xx and 56xx lines, so I've no idea of the clocks, core counts, or pricing offered.
and until we know that its hard to estimate the final prices/configurations. do we have a set date?

Hex parts I expect to be CTO upgrades, and will be meant for the top end only ( = expensive).
they are HT enabled i guess? 12 core/24 thread MP would be overkill in this particular situation ;)


If you do sell, wait to see the 2010 models first (specs and pricing), as you might end up hurting yourself.
totally agreed there, i say wait for the time being.

BTW, what exactly are you going to do with it?
i am also curious, for recommendations its essential :0
 
BTW, what exactly are you going to do with it?
(I ask, as I'm not sure you could use more than what an Octad offers, no matter if it's an '08, 09, or '10, in terms of multi-threaded software, since very little can actually use that many cores, let alone 12 physical cores in a DP Xeon 56xx system).

I work mostly in single threaded software, so the benefits of the newer hyperthreaded CPUs aren't as prevalent to me on a day to day basis. Selling this model would not only alleviate the AppleCare concern from me but also tame my inner enthusiast (admittedly one of the reasons I have a MP to being with :rolleyes:)

I think I may manipulate some '08s around until I get one with AppleCare, and wait out the update to gain perspective of Apple's direction with the market.
 
current advantages of USB3.0, if they were to be offered in 10 MPs... ->backups might be a bit faster :p most people would have internal drives rather then externals.
I'd love to see eSATA, but that can't happen on the existing boards. A PCIe card would be the only solution that wouldn't require PCB work. But if they do actually produce new boards, they could address a few of the other issues as well, namely the DIMM slots (more than 4 per CPU).

and until we know that its hard to estimate the final prices/configurations. do we have a set date?
Sort of. March 2010 is the scheduled release date for Gulftown given by Intel, but no additional details (exact date, and so far, not a full part list/breakdown either). I keep hoping that will be released shortly, as it usually shows about a month or so in advance of the official release date. But "March" could mean the last day of the month. :rolleyes: :p

they are HT enabled i guess? 12 core/24 thread MP would be overkill in this particular situation ;)
Personally, I prefer to look at the real core figure, not virtual, which are supposed to be 50% of a real core (but it's less in real world terms due to latency from swapping data from one app to another to one core).

I work mostly in single threaded software, so the benefits of the newer hyperthreaded CPUs aren't as prevalent to me on a day to day basis. Selling this model would not only alleviate the AppleCare concern from me but also tame my inner enthusiast (admittedly one of the reasons I have a MP to being with :rolleyes:)
Then you'd be best served with a higher clocked system. A faster Quad and the right upgrades would best suit your needs from what you're indicating, especially if you're on a tight budget.

But ultimately, check to see how the current systems compare to the '08 Octads (as the same money or even less can get you more performance, even with more cores in respect to the '09's), and whatever performance data comes out from reviews of the 2010's when they reach user's hands.

I think I may manipulate some '08s around until I get one with AppleCare, and wait out the update to gain perspective of Apple's direction with the market.
This may not be a bad idea. It can set your mind at ease in regards to having to pay for a hardware failure out of pocket.

Having any system right now can get you working and buy you some time to wait and compare the systems, but peace of mind is important too, so may be a worth while prospect.
 
Having any system right now can get you working and buy you some time to wait and compare the systems, but peace of mind is important too, so may be a worth while prospect.

And it will let me make use of the pile of hard drives in my closet :rolleyes:

Any suggestions as far as SSDs go? I'm looking for speed here, not capacity. I don't need anything over 80GB, but something that will cut the biggest bottleneck my system has (will have)
 
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Techhie said:
Having any system right now can get you working and buy you some time to wait and compare the systems, but peace of mind is important too, so may be a worth while prospect.

And it will let me make use of the pile of hard drives in my closet :rolleyes:

Any suggestions as far as SSDs go? I'm looking for speed here, not capacity. I don't need anything over 80GB, but something that will cut the biggest bottleneck my system has (will have)

raid0 two 80gb SSDs I guess. That would give amazing performance! :) but then you get into raid cards etc, which are quite costly.

Unless you opt for software raid.
 
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Unless you opt for software raid.

Don't say that! I've seen nanofrog rant about softRAID bottlenecks on the standard SATA controller, hopefully just one as a boot drive will be a cheap way to speed up the system.
 
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Techhie said:
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Unless you opt for software raid.

Don't say that! I've seen nanofrog rant about softRAID bottlenecks on the standard SATA controller, hopefully just one as a boot drive will be a cheap way to speed up the system.

speeds of around 200MB/s seem possible with a good SSDs, even higher but they do cost.

But yes, nano is quite picky ;)
 
And it will let me make use of the pile of hard drives in my closet :rolleyes:

Any suggestions as far as SSDs go? I'm looking for speed here, not capacity. I don't need anything over 80GB, but something that will cut the biggest bottleneck my system has (will have)
I'd say Intel Postville (G2 models), or maybe OCZ's latest, such as the Vertex 2 or Colossus. It's worth researching them thoroughly, including various forums (where you can discover potential issues the vendor won't ever mention).

Don't say that! I've seen nanofrog rant about softRAID bottlenecks on the standard SATA controller, hopefully just one as a boot drive will be a cheap way to speed up the system.
It's not a rant, but many want to run a sofware stripe of SSD's, and maybe mechanical drives as well (those SSD's are capable of ~250MB/s reads IIRC). Then they discover the hard way, there's a throughput limit in the ICH of ~660MB/s.

So I try to make people aware of that fact, as they're assuming that each SATA port has all the bandwidth available per SATA spec. That's not the case, and neither Intel or the system vendor will tell you this.

A RAID card gets you around this, especially with a stripe set consisting of more than 2x SSD's, as the data is transferred over the PCIe bus. But it comes with a higher price tag. Always a compromise... :rolleyes: :D :p

But yes, nano is quite picky ;)
It's not about being picky, it's to do with the throughput limitations, and the complaints seen from users attempting to run multiple drives (SSD in a stripe set or mechanical drives simultaneously with SSD's), and hitting a wall, when they know that they should be getting notably higher throughputs.

There's been other situations as well, and usually related to some specific OS/boot requirement.
 
It's not a rant, but many want to run a sofware stripe of SSD's, and maybe mechanical drives as well (those SSD's are capable of ~250MB/s reads IIRC). Then they discover the hard way, there's a throughput limit in the ICH of ~660MB/s.

So I try to make people aware of that fact, as they're assuming that each SATA port has all the bandwidth available per SATA spec. That's not the case, and neither Intel or the system vendor will tell you this.

A RAID card gets you around this, especially with a stripe set consisting of more than 2x SSD's, as the data is transferred over the PCIe bus. But it comes with a higher price tag. Always a compromise... :rolleyes: :D :p

I'm looking for a relatively inexpensive solution with the SSD boot drive, and can't justify dropping the coin for a dedicated PCIe RAID card. It would be nice, but tthe only reason I'm willing to go for a SSD is because of the drop in prices on the 80 GB models and my option to transfer it over to a new box if need be.
 
woopsi, missed this post ;)
I'd love to see eSATA, but that can't happen on the existing boards. A PCIe card would be the only solution that wouldn't require PCB work. But if they do actually produce new boards, they could address a few of the other issues as well, namely the DIMM slots (more than 4 per CPU).
eSATA hits 300MB/s max, which is guess is enough for singluar drives or even mechanical striped drives but anything other then that it seems a bit silly.

what about FW3200? is that due out anytime soon?

more DIMMs would really be nice though!

Sort of. March 2010 is the scheduled release date for Gulftown given by Intel, but no additional details (exact date, and so far, not a full part list/breakdown either). I keep hoping that will be released shortly, as it usually shows about a month or so in advance of the official release date. But "March" could mean the last day of the month. :rolleyes: :p
ohh i see. any money they might put it back another month or so :p

Personally, I prefer to look at the real core figure, not virtual, which are supposed to be 50% of a real core (but it's less in real world terms due to latency from swapping data from one app to another to one core).
understandable for situations where you are only running one main application using 100% of the CPU. but if you have about 4 applications using 100% of the CPU then i think HT is quite beneficial.



It's not about being picky, it's to do with the throughput limitations, and the complaints seen from users attempting to run multiple drives (SSD in a stripe set or mechanical drives simultaneously with SSD's), and hitting a wall, when they know that they should be getting notably higher throughputs.

There's been other situations as well, and usually related to some specific OS/boot requirement.
totally true and no argument with limitations and the use of RAID cards, i cant really see techhie using more then the limitations of the ICH in this particular instance. also given the fact of funds and whatnot i think it might be the best situation to go with software based.
 
I'm looking for a relatively inexpensive solution with the SSD boot drive, and can't justify dropping the coin for a dedicated PCIe RAID card. It would be nice, but tthe only reason I'm willing to go for a SSD is because of the drop in prices on the 80 GB models and my option to transfer it over to a new box if need be.
You might be misunderstanding me.

For a single SSD, you only need to attach it to the logic board, so there's no card needed, and it saves money as well. It's only when you want to run SSD in RAID (i.e. stripe set), that the card makes sense to get around the throttling issue in the ICH.

eSATA hits 300MB/s max, which is guess is enough for singluar drives or even mechanical striped drives but anything other then that it seems a bit silly.
The theoretical max is 375MB/s, but it won't reach that in the real world. ~270MB/s is all it can actually achieve for SATA 3.0Gb/s. Obviously it's increased (doubled) with SATA 6.0Gb/s, but so far, that's not possible on MP's logic boards. A PCIe card is the only way with existing systems, and it appears that will also be the case for the 2010 models, as they use the same ICH as in the current models.

I see eSATA as an inexpensive connection for backups that still offers better performance than USB, FW400/800, or even 1G Ethernet. Especially when RAID is used in the internal HDD bays. PM enclosures can give you up to 5 drives per eSATA port, so a single port could provide up to 10TB in backup capacity (with current largest capacity drives).

what about FW3200? is that due out anytime soon?
Late 2010 is the last I've seen.

understandable for situations where you are only running one main application using 100% of the CPU. but if you have about 4 applications using 100% of the CPU then i think HT is quite beneficial.
HT is good for running mulitple applications where it uses less than 50% of a core. Anything more, you'd be better off with physical cores, assuming such instances are common.

totally true and no argument with limitations and the use of RAID cards, i cant really see techhie using more then the limitations of the ICH in this particular instance. also given the fact of funds and whatnot i think it might be the best situation to go with software based.
He does NOT need a RAID card for a single SSD for an OS/application disk.

If he wanted to make a stripe set however, it may make sense if theres more than 2x SSD's in the set, or perhaps in a mixed mode environment (SSD + HDD used in a simultaneous access scenario). It would get down to the specifics.
 
Another small question, what is the behavior of two graphics cards in OS X? I'm trying to decide between a Radeon 4870 (in addition to the already running GT 120 to support 2x 30" monitors) and a GTX 285. I plan to boot into Windows for the occasional game and stay in OS X the majority of the time, but I'm unsure how these two cards will interact while running simultaneously.
 
Another small question, what is the behavior of two graphics cards in OS X? I'm trying to decide between a Radeon 4870 (in addition to the already running GT 120 to support 2x 30" monitors) and a GTX 285. I plan to boot into Windows for the occasional game and stay in OS X the majority of the time, but I'm unsure how these two cards will interact while running simultaneously.
It's not a problem under OS X.

On the Windows side, Vista would be a problem (multiple cards needed to have GPU's from the same maker), but Win7 is fine with mixing nVidia and ATI.
 
It's not a problem under OS X.

On the Windows side, Vista would be a problem (multiple cards needed to have GPU's from the same maker), but Win7 is fine with mixing nVidia and ATI.

I figured as much, but I don't know how the system will treat them when gaming (on either OS). I've heard that it differentiates in Windows, so does this mean I will only have gaming oomph on the monitor I have plugged into the 4870 or do the OS' use the collective power of all GPUs during a game?
 
I figured as much, but I don't know how the system will treat them when gaming (on either OS). I've heard that it differentiates in Windows, so does this mean I will only have gaming oomph on the monitor I have plugged into the 4870 or do the OS' use the collective power of all GPUs during a game?
I'm not certain, but it seems to me that cards from different makers would want to operate independently (unlike Crossfire or SLI, which use the same GPU maker's parts and some other means to get them to work together).

So I'd expect the faster card to be noticable, unless you turn the settings down to something the lower performance card can do.

It it's not going to work, you'd want to place both monitors on one card.
 
So I'd expect the faster card to be noticable, unless you turn the settings down to something the lower performance card can do.

It it's not going to work, you'd want to place both monitors on one card.

Yeah, it's just such a shame that a one-card solution leaves me with

8800 GT

A $100 dual-link MDP adapter on the anemic GT120

The $450 GTX 285, which is soon to be outdated with another old and overpriced Mac Pro card

*Sigh, why can't Apple support the people who like 30" monitors? :rolleyes: Never mind the fact that the people who would buy them would usually have no problem forking over for the GTX 285 :eek:

I'm 17 and can't afford to pay an Apple tax for decent performance :(
 
Yeah, it's just such a shame that a one-card solution leaves me with

8800 GT

A $100 dual-link MDP adapter on the anemic GT120

The $450 GTX 285, which is soon to be outdated with another old and overpriced Mac Pro card

*Sigh, why can't Apple support the people who like 30" monitors? :rolleyes: Never mind the fact that the people who would buy them would usually have no problem forking over for the GTX 285 :eek:

I'm 17 and can't afford to pay an Apple tax for decent performance :(
I'd wait for the 2010's, as I really do expect a 5xxx ATI card. Get a PC version, and flash it. The ROM's certainly going to be available somewhere shortly after someone gets their hands on an Apple version.

If you don't want to deal with flashing a card, it might push the 4870 down on Apple's site, and some may even pop up on Craig's List and/or eBay.

Up to you, but it doesn't sound critical you must have a solution this instant, and waiting is in your wallet's best interest. :D :p
 
For a single SSD, you only need to attach it to the logic board, so there's no card needed, and it saves money as well. It's only when you want to run SSD in RAID (i.e. stripe set), that the card makes sense to get around the throttling issue in the ICH.
makes sense, but not entirely needed. im sure that the max speed of the ICH (did you say around 600MB/s?) would be plenty fast enough for the OPs situation ;)

The theoretical max is 375MB/s, but it won't reach that in the real world. ~270MB/s is all it can actually achieve for SATA 3.0Gb/s. Obviously it's increased (doubled) with SATA 6.0Gb/s, but so far, that's not possible on MP's logic boards. A PCIe card is the only way with existing systems, and it appears that will also be the case for the 2010 models, as they use the same ICH as in the current models.
ahh i see. am i correct in assuming that the fastest PCIe slots on a MP are 16GB/s? just making sure that we arent going to go any faster then the logic board can take ;)

I see eSATA as an inexpensive connection for backups that still offers better performance than USB, FW400/800, or even 1G Ethernet. Especially when RAID is used in the internal HDD bays. PM enclosures can give you up to 5 drives per eSATA port, so a single port could provide up to 10TB in backup capacity (with current largest capacity drives).
youve got me! i might save up for one of these said enclosures. i hope they dont cost too much! eSATA cables can be pretty long too right? too bad my iMac doesnt have eSata! i will have to put one in my hack ;)

Late 2010 is the last I've seen.
gah how frustrating! dont try to keep up or anything FW...

HT is good for running mulitple applications where it uses less than 50% of a core. Anything more, you'd be better off with physical cores, assuming such instances are common.
LESS than 50%? right, didnt know that.

He does NOT need a RAID card for a single SSD for an OS/application disk.

If he wanted to make a stripe set however, it may make sense if theres more than 2x SSD's in the set, or perhaps in a mixed mode environment (SSD + HDD used in a simultaneous access scenario). It would get down to the specifics.

he most def does not need a RAID card!! how does the speed get calculated in a mixed mode environment (MME for easy reference).
 
makes sense, but not entirely needed. I'm sure that the max speed of the ICH (did you say around 600MB/s?) would be plenty fast enough for the OPs situation ;)
It's ~660MB/s (approx 110MB/s per drive), of which there are 6x SATA ports in a 4 + 2 configuration on the ICH parts. As Techie only wants to run 1x SSD, the logic board is absolutely FINE. :D

You're skimming to quickly and missing the big stuff. :eek: :p

ahh i see. am i correct in assuming that the fastest PCIe slots on a MP are 16GB/s? just making sure that we aren't going to go any faster then the logic board can take ;)
No. The '08 and '09 systems use PCIe v 2.0 (500MB/s per lane) for the 16x lane slots, which can provide 8GB/s max. But they differ on the 4x lane slots, as the '08's are PCIe v 1.1 (250MB/s per lane). The '09's use PCIe 2.0 for all 4 slots.

But ultimately, it will depend on how much bandwidth is available from PCIe to the CPU. It's different architecture between the '08 and '09 systems, and neither can handle all the slots running at full bandwidth (18 - 20GB/s). It's a design compromise, and they may not all need to access the CPU anyway (i.e. Crossfire or SLI).

PCIe v 3.0 is capable of 1.0GB/s per lane, but isn't even finished with validation, as the final specification isn't due until Q2 2010. So it's going to be a little while. I'd expect it about March 2011 or so (new Intel CPU architecture, and PCIe 3.0 would be present in the accompanying chipset/s).

you've got me! i might save up for one of these said enclosures. i hope they dont cost too much! eSATA cables can be pretty long too right? too bad my iMac doesn't have eSata! i will have to put one in my hack ;)
SATA spec:
1.0 m = passive signals (no electronics between the eSATA port and drives in the enclosure to amplify the signals, which = Port Multiplier board)
2.0 m = active signals (Port Multiplier board between the card and drives)

RAID cards are actually passive. eSATA cards alone are passive. It's the use of a Port Multiplier enclosure that can allow you to use 2.0 m cables. Otherwise, it's 1.0 m.

LESS than 50%? right, didn't know that.
50% theoretical, but it doesn't take into account the controller section in the CPU has to switch processes back and forth (2 separate threads), which adds latency, and slows you down.

he most def does not need a RAID card!! how does the speed get calculated in a mixed mode environment (MME for easy reference).
It's going to depend on usage. But assuming simultaneous access (all drives going at the same time), it's the throughput speeds of each disk added up for a max throughput scenario. So if you're looking at averages, and have
SSD = 250MB/s
4x HDD = 85MB/s each (340MB/s total, likely via a stripe set)
1x ODD = 60MB/s (likely not simultaneous in most cases, so it's up to the user as to consider this or not)

Grand total = 650MB/s (basically right at the limit of what the ICH can handle maxed out).
 
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