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I am sure this will be the last time Apple "upset" customers with this upgrade.

As far as I can see almost anyone with a N capable Mac wont see a neeed for N unless they also purchase a new Airport Extreme or AppleTV anyway. And the N upgrade is free if you get one of these.
 
Two things have become readily apparent to me while sifting through the 9 pages of this topic.

1. Many people have a very difficult time understanding accounting and GAAP
2. Educated and respectful reasons for the charge have fallen on deaf ears

The reasons sighted for the charge (namely, revenue recognition pertaining to GAAP) are absolutely reasonable and correct. By enabling this substantial capability that was NOT advertised or implied, they admit that the product that was delivered was incomplete. According to GAAP, the revenue should be deferred until the product is complete. Apple obviously didn't do this. Companies and shareholders hate restatements. So charge a nominal fee and be done with it.

Apple did not do anything dishonest or out of the ordinary. Apple is complying with GAAP.

I completely agree with those who have stated that Apple would rather not have to charge it's customers for this. Apple is breaking even on this transaction at best.

I cannot understand the argument that Apple should charge and then issue a rebate. Please tell me why Apple should incur a cost to enable a substantial feature upgrade that you DID NOT PAY FOR. You paid for a computer with b/g capabilities and that is EXACTLY what was delivered to you. You are not being forced to upgrade, and this upgrade in no way reduces the capabilities that were promised to you for the fee that you paid.

Furthermore, Apple's conduct would not be considered unusual even if the company wasn't compelled by accounting standards to charge. Automobile manufacturers frequently increase the performance capabilities of their automobiles after several years to offer consumers new features and/or a more compelling reason to upgrade. These power increases are often achieved through programing changes in the engine's electronic control module (ECM). Was the prior model year capable of this better performance? Sure, but maybe the software changes (and required EPA testing) weren't quite ready for the prior model. Do automobile manufacturers make this "upgrade" available to customers who purchased an older model? NO.

Apple could have never released this upgrade and you would have been forced to do one of two things: create the drivers yourself (your time is worth money, believe it or not), or buy an add-on card--both of which would likely cost you more than $2. This was the more generous (and pro-consumer) approach. Apple is a business, Apple is not your friend. People need to realize this. This is not to say that consumers should not be outraged when a company engages in blantant anti-consumer behavior--it's just that this doesn't qualify as one of those instances.

Now to the quotes from the accountant and FASB member. You are aware that the question asked influences the response given, correct? Accounting is based on guidelines, precedent, and conservatism (not necessarily in that order). Generally Accepted Accounting Principles are just that--generally accepted. They provide businesses with recommended guidelines and approaches (though public companies are required to conform to GAAP). They do not provide a textbook explanation of every possible business scenario. As such, they are open to interpretation. Enter precedent. Were we ever in a similar situation? If so, how did we approach it? If not illegal or unethical, handle this situation in the same or similar manner. Never been in this situation before? Tread lightly. The principle of conservatism (accounting-wise, not political - haha) dictates that given two or more approaches, select the option to provides the least amount of risk. Is this option more cautious than necessary? Perhaps. Dealing with an SEC investigation isn't exactly a pleasant experience, however. Apple has had a recent run-in with the SEC. When you're under the microscope, you tend to be more cautious.

Sorry for the long post. Responding to 9 pages of comments takes a while.
 
Two things have become readily apparent to me while sifting through the 9 pages of this topic.

1. Many people have a very difficult time understanding accounting and GAAP
2. Educated and respectful reasons for the charge have fallen on deaf ears

I know why they are doing it and they are right to do it. But, that is not the excuse they are telling people:

"The nominal distribution fee for the 802.11n software is required in order for Apple to comply with generally accepted accounting principles for revenue recognition, which generally require that we charge for significant feature enhancements, such as 802.11n, when added to previously purchased products," Fox said

That which is in bold is what I object to. That is NOT true. GAAP does not require them to charge. That is a fact reinerated by the FASB board member.

Apple doesn't want to restate, fine. Just say that.
 
That which is in bold is what I object to. That is NOT true. GAAP does not require them to charge. That is a fact reinerated by the FASB board member.

Apple doesn't want to restate, fine. Just say that.

I understand your view, but it's not as clear cut as it seems. As with any business decision, there are multiple approaches to get the desired outcome.

Apple recognized the revenue from the computer models in question. Taking the conservative approach, that action gives Apple two main choices: update free of charge and restate, or charge a nominal fee and leave the record earnings in tact. Selecting the restatement option would be a terrible decision--particularly in a record quarter. Even mentioning the word "restatement of earnings" sends shivers down investors' spines. All companies avoid the word when possible.

So while I agree with you that GAAP doesn't require that they charge a fee, it is one of the options available to maintain compliance with GAAP. From an accounting standpoint, Apple didn't provide a very thorough explanation. Though most people wouldn't truly understand (or care to know, for that matter) the accounting explanation. They're not being untruthful. They're just being a bit overly simplistic.
 
Apple doesn't want to restate, fine. Just say that.
A restatement doesn't give them any actual protection. It's just a good measure to take when you screw up and don't have any other way to correct it. For most retroactive statements, you can pursue prosecution, but it's customary not to (you don't usually want to punish people for being honest, because otherwise what's the incentive not to try to hide it?). But it's like announcing that you'll be filing, say, an AOB late; that's all well and good, but it's late and if they choose not to accept it or to punish you, an announcement of error isn't going to stop them.

What you're suggesting is basically the same as saying "Paul didn't want to speed in order to get there on time." He had good cause (maybe his wife was having a baby), and maybe he wouldn't even get caught, but if he did, he has no actual protection--only the whims of the police officer.

The bottom line is that there is always a choice, but sometimes staying in the clear only has one certain option. The law can't actually "require" you to obey it (you must choose to), but we use that expression because of the fundamental assumptions upon which the justice system is based.

They obviously don't want to go into detail in a public statement about what's going on, but long story short, you can't expect them to say "we're going to charge for this because we made some oversight in the beginning and now we have to correct it."

If they didn't correct it and they were eventually fined, that charge would eventually be passed on to customers as well. Let the customers pay who find it reasonable and appropriate to do so. Would you rather be asked to pay $2 now to upgrade your own computer or forced to pay $0.50 later because someone else's computer was upgraded?
 
I am sure this will be the last time Apple "upset" customers with this upgrade.

As far as I can see almost anyone with a N capable Mac wont see a neeed for N unless they also purchase a new Airport Extreme or AppleTV anyway. And the N upgrade is free if you get one of these.

Mostly true.

Eventually, wireless hotspots might offer N-speed service, once the dust has settled on the standard.
 
Well, the last I am going to say about this situation is,

1) I am happy about the upgrade.

2) It is worth $1.99.

3) Apple is NOT forced to charge us by GAAP, FASB, EITF's, SOP's, Steve's grandmother, or anyone else.

And,

4) We are all nerds for giving a hoot.

So, please excuse me while I go get a life.
 
Mostly true.

Eventually, wireless hotspots might offer N-speed service, once the dust has settled on the standard.

I will be pleasently surprised...actually, astounded, if you get bandwidth from a wireless 'hotspot' that requires you to have more than G speeds. Point taken in respect that N might provide some range benefits. Still for 2007 at least I dont see this as an issue.
 
I will be pleasently surprised...actually, astounded, if you get bandwidth from a wireless 'hotspot' that requires you to have more than G speeds. Point taken in respect that N might provide some range benefits. Still for 2007 at least I dont see this as an issue.

If the upgrade helps with range as N is supposed to do, it will be quite a boon to the alumi machines.

You're right about 2007 because it's been enough just to find hotspots, let alone fast and reliable spots for the price.
 
I know why they are doing it and they are right to do it. But, that is not the excuse they are telling people:



That which is in bold is what I object to. That is NOT true. GAAP does not require them to charge. That is a fact reinerated by the FASB board member.

Apple doesn't want to restate, fine. Just say that.


Do not confuse amounts paid with revenue recogntion. This is the core of the accounting, and the key to the GAAP interpretation.
 
And to the spoiled go the spoils.

Let us not forget that Microsoft would never implement a technology ahead of time, and then only charge a $1.99 to make it available - they would implement a technology 4 years old and then charge two times as much, 2 years after the announced it.

Apple built-in the technology beforehand and is now making it available for $1.99, instead of having us wait for next line to make 802.11n available. The way I see it, I don't have to buy another computer to have this technology available to me or add external upgrades, etc.

At times, Apple spoils us and our reactions to annoucements like these stand as proof. I think paying $1.99 is worth the price of loyalty. Call me blind, call me fanboy, but at least I'm paying for the "future." Regardless of legality, Apple was thinking of how to make it easier for me to have this technology without waiting for future lines (e.g. MacBook) and for that I say thanks, with my $1.99!
 
Why didn't Apple have to charge customers who received the better speced Mac Mini? (1.5 GHz G4 etc.) I mean, it had a better CPU, GPU and probably something else. They didn't officially sell that hardware?
 
Why didn't Apple have to charge customers who received the better speced Mac Mini? (1.5 GHz G4 etc.) I mean, it had a better CPU, GPU and probably something else. They didn't officially sell that hardware?

No, they didn't. That was a lucky draw. They didn't make any marketing or packaging change between the old spec and new spec hardware immediately, you bought a "Mac Mini" and may or may not get a newer version. You bought assuming you got the lower spec, which is what Apple was advertising it as being. You found out when you got home. That's why these people claiming they should get the update for free are wrong. Apple never advertised these as being 802.11n capable, so they never bought the 802.11n ability to start with. There is no entitlement here.

In this case Airport case you had the lower hardware spec and were using it, and now Apple is offering something that add a new feature after purchase. I think the distinction is Apple is providing the enabler here, the features are changing from what the hardware was capable of out of the box. Apple was never obligated to ship an update to allow the 802.11n capability. They could have just continued to sell these chipsets as 802.11g and let the -n ability be completely unused.

With the Mac Mini, the hardware has the same abilities as it left the factory with. Nobody is getting anything extra six months later.
 
Two things have become readily apparent to me while sifting through the 9 pages of this topic.

1. Many people have a very difficult time understanding accounting and GAAP
2. Educated and respectful reasons for the charge have fallen on deaf ears

The reasons sighted for the charge (namely, revenue recognition pertaining to GAAP) are absolutely reasonable and correct. By enabling this substantial capability that was NOT advertised or implied, they admit that the product that was delivered was incomplete. According to GAAP, the revenue should be deferred until the product is complete. Apple obviously didn't do this. Companies and shareholders hate restatements. So charge a nominal fee and be done with it.

Apple did not do anything dishonest or out of the ordinary. Apple is complying with GAAP.

I completely agree with those who have stated that Apple would rather not have to charge it's customers for this. Apple is breaking even on this transaction at best.

I cannot understand the argument that Apple should charge and then issue a rebate. Please tell me why Apple should incur a cost to enable a substantial feature upgrade that you DID NOT PAY FOR. You paid for a computer with b/g capabilities and that is EXACTLY what was delivered to you. You are not being forced to upgrade, and this upgrade in no way reduces the capabilities that were promised to you for the fee that you paid.

Furthermore, Apple's conduct would not be considered unusual even if the company wasn't compelled by accounting standards to charge. Automobile manufacturers frequently increase the performance capabilities of their automobiles after several years to offer consumers new features and/or a more compelling reason to upgrade. These power increases are often achieved through programing changes in the engine's electronic control module (ECM). Was the prior model year capable of this better performance? Sure, but maybe the software changes (and required EPA testing) weren't quite ready for the prior model. Do automobile manufacturers make this "upgrade" available to customers who purchased an older model? NO.

Apple could have never released this upgrade and you would have been forced to do one of two things: create the drivers yourself (your time is worth money, believe it or not), or buy an add-on card--both of which would likely cost you more than $2. This was the more generous (and pro-consumer) approach. Apple is a business, Apple is not your friend. People need to realize this. This is not to say that consumers should not be outraged when a company engages in blantant anti-consumer behavior--it's just that this doesn't qualify as one of those instances.

Now to the quotes from the accountant and FASB member. You are aware that the question asked influences the response given, correct? Accounting is based on guidelines, precedent, and conservatism (not necessarily in that order). Generally Accepted Accounting Principles are just that--generally accepted. They provide businesses with recommended guidelines and approaches (though public companies are required to conform to GAAP). They do not provide a textbook explanation of every possible business scenario. As such, they are open to interpretation. Enter precedent. Were we ever in a similar situation? If so, how did we approach it? If not illegal or unethical, handle this situation in the same or similar manner. Never been in this situation before? Tread lightly. The principle of conservatism (accounting-wise, not political - haha) dictates that given two or more approaches, select the option to provides the least amount of risk. Is this option more cautious than necessary? Perhaps. Dealing with an SEC investigation isn't exactly a pleasant experience, however. Apple has had a recent run-in with the SEC. When you're under the microscope, you tend to be more cautious.

Sorry for the long post. Responding to 9 pages of comments takes a while.

Perfectly put =). I wish more people thought with reason instead of emotion...
 
Mostly true.

Eventually, wireless hotspots might offer N-speed service, once the dust has settled on the standard.

True, but its worth noting that Apple is not selling IEEE-standard N, as it doesn't exist yet. So even if you bought the -n capable card, and paid the upgrade fee, you still would not be able to connect to an -n hotspot at full speed, as that hot spot would not match Apple's spec.

So you still will have to get another software update later on, maybe even a hardware update to be -n standard.

Which makes this whining even more stupid, since technically Apple still does not offer -n standard ability, nobody does, as the spec is not finished yet.

I expect Leopard to have Apple's -n spec update included, and the full IEEE standard if it's finished at the time. If not, we may be having this same thread later this year when Apple makes the upgrade to the actual 802.11n standard available for a nominal fee. After all, you will be able to connect to other makers -n routers, whereas before it was just Apple's. That might be considered an upgrade by accounting standards.
 
Any word on when the "n" standard will be included with the new products?

Well, since we don't know when the standard itself will be done, that's impossible to say. It's been delayed a couple times. :rolleyes:

The problem is this is a hotly anticipated standard, there's a lot of pend up consumer demand for this, and many vendors have started shipping their own special versions of -n bandwidth wireless equipment. Meanwhile the industry group working on the standard has many hardware manufacturers on it. So they all want their own respective company's version of what 802.11n should be to become the standard so they have a leg up on the competition on hardware sales. I wouldn't be surprised if they use it as marketing fuel too ("The Linksys Speedbooster technology was chosen to be the new industry standard due to Cisco's innovative technology..." [gag])

But once its released, products that meet the hardware requirements should be firmware upgradeable to the standard. :D Products that don't will be replaced as soon as manufacturing ramp-up can be done, as nobody is going to want the non-standard hardware once the standard has been set.
 
True, but its worth noting that Apple is not selling IEEE-standard N, as it doesn't exist yet. So even if you bought the -n capable card, and paid the upgrade fee, you still would not be able to connect to an -n hotspot at full speed, as that hot spot would not match Apple's spec.

So you still will have to get another software update later on, maybe even a hardware update to be -n standard.

Which makes this whining even more stupid, since technically Apple still does not offer -n standard ability, nobody does, as the spec is not finished yet.

I expect Leopard to have Apple's -n spec update included, and the full IEEE standard if it's finished at the time. If not, we may be having this same thread later this year when Apple makes the upgrade to the actual 802.11n standard available for a nominal fee. After all, you will be able to connect to other makers -n routers, whereas before it was just Apple's. That might be considered an upgrade by accounting standards.
OK, now you've lost me.

I realize that the standard hasn't been finalized (yet), but how is Apple's draft-n different from the 802.11n draft standard and other manufacturer's pre-n hardware?

...And how do you know that Apple's n spec won't match the IEEE 802.11n standard if it hasn't been finalized yet?
 
I realize that the standard hasn't been finalized (yet), but how is Apple's draft-n different from the 802.11n draft standard and other manufacturer's pre-n hardware?
Different manufacturers have different ways of implementing their solutions. One vendor may use multiple streams of small frequencies broadcast simultaneously, one may use a single stream of a vary large frequency range.

Have you noticed that some Pre-N routers have three antennae and some only have one? There's you hardware incompatibility right there.

If you're looking for past examples, look to Bluetooth 2.0, or the v.90 modem spec (K56Flex vs X2).

...And how do you know that Apple's n spec won't match the IEEE 802.11n standard if it hasn't been finalized yet?

We don't, but generally standards take the best parts out of multiple proprietary implementations. A standard a rarely the exact same as one company's own version (I like to think that's because no company knows how to do something 100% right) the reason is probably they would never get all members of the committee to agree to use a solution that is 100% one company's version (because of the marketing reasons I mentioned in my last post).

There were two HD-DVD starards at one time (no, I don't mean HD-DVD vs. BluRay, I mean just for HD-DVD). One version (I think Toshiba was the creator) offered more data capacity on a single layer of the disc, but a disc could only be one layer. Another offered multiple layers and a higher capacity for the entire disc. The final spec was only two layers but used Toshiba's formatting for the actual layers from what I remember (that was a while ago).

Edit: I think we've come along far enough that most manufacturers (including Apple) are using the draft N standard, so hardware issues are unlikely, but I'll bet you everyone has to institute a software patch of some sort later. If one company actually got their special spec approved, they wouldn't really need to issue a patch for their own equipment.
 
I expect Leopard to have Apple's -n spec update included, and the full IEEE standard if it's finished at the time. If not, we may be having this same thread later this year when Apple makes the upgrade to the actual 802.11n standard available for a nominal fee.
Well no, because now that the functionality exists, any updates to it would be standard driver updates, which would not incur fees of any kind. The jump from a prerelease standard to a released standard, or to an extended/appended/revised standard does not constitute a material change. If the hardware turns out to be incompatible, however, Apple and a lot of other draft-n manufacturers are going to be royally screwed.
 
True, but its worth noting that Apple is not selling IEEE-standard N, as it doesn't exist yet. So even if you bought the -n capable card, and paid the upgrade fee, you still would not be able to connect to an -n hotspot at full speed, as that hot spot would not match Apple's spec.

So you still will have to get another software update later on, maybe even a hardware update to be -n standard.

Which makes this whining even more stupid, since technically Apple still does not offer -n standard ability, nobody does, as the spec is not finished yet.

I expect Leopard to have Apple's -n spec update included, and the full IEEE standard if it's finished at the time. If not, we may be having this same thread later this year when Apple makes the upgrade to the actual 802.11n standard available for a nominal fee. After all, you will be able to connect to other makers -n routers, whereas before it was just Apple's. That might be considered an upgrade by accounting standards.

I'm not disputing that it's going to be a while. It took long enough just to get a V.34 standard, a V.90 standard, and it took a very long time to for the dust to settle on 802.11b/g vs. 802.11a. Thankfully, we might see something toward the end of 2007.

As far as I'm concerned, the upgrade fee is a non-issue. I rarely use the wireless capabilities anyway but it's basically 3 chocolate bars. People waste a lot of money, why is this so terrible?

I still haven't figured out why Apple has to be a philanthropic organisation.
 
Well no, because now that the functionality exists, any updates to it would be standard driver updates, which would not incur fees of any kind. The jump from a prerelease standard to a released standard, or to an extended/appended/revised standard does not constitute a material change. If the hardware turns out to be incompatible, however, Apple and a lot of other draft-n manufacturers are going to be royally screwed.

Every time I think I've finally figured this stuff out I read another post and my understanding goes out the windows. By the way, to all those accountants and lawyers who've patiently explained this 10000 times... thanks for humoring us.

I finally get why apple has to charge for the N updater this time around. I don't understand why apple won't have to charge for the next one. How does one know where the line between software update and "material change" is drawn?

As I figured it we are paying this fee since 802.11N is an entirely new standard that operates differently then previously implemented wireless standards. Can't the same be said for the final N standard when compared to the draft N standard that apple is selling us?

After reading most of this thread (and a few others that have appeared on the subject) I still feel as if apple royally screwed up on this. As I said previously, I understand why apple now has to charge this $1.99. IMHO, apple should have foreseen this, done the accounting differently, and avoided this whole PR mess entirely.

I'm not an accountant, and that's precisely the problem... most people who buy these computers (as certainly has been shown in this thread) aren't either, and have little understanding of accounting law. To me, and the general public I'd imagine, it doesn't matter whether accounting wise I payed for 802.11N or not... and even though I've learned it's not the case, it still seams like I did. The hardware's in my computer so someone had to pay for it, and seems as if we did, whether we knew it or not.
 
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