8800GT - Response from Steve Jobs

[Cleverboy]

CB, I don't really disagree with you. The longer we live on this planet, the more disappointments we experience. The semantics comment was about the difference between "every or any".

I know. "Looking every gift horse in the mouth" is skeptical. "Looking any gift horse in the mouth" is cynical. "Every" presupposes doubt. "Any" presupposes potential. Therein lies the argument over semantics (I disagreed with "every", you suggested merit in "any"). One word instantly changing all meaning. Palexandridis expressed what I would only call a corrosive level of skepticism, standing with arms folded, ready to object before a comment is even made. My original comment is that this, to me, is a mindless and disturbing position to take up if we're to expect any progress in this world.

We're hackers - we hate companies, right? We should be critical of them the way we should be critical of governments.

Meh. Not holding any company or government above criticism doesn't mean that we should aspire to invent criticism where none is warranted. What a waste of time and energy.

~ CB

 

[Blogger]

I know. "Looking every gift horse in the mouth" is skeptical. "Looking any gift horse in the mouth" is cynical. "Every" presupposes doubt. "Any" presupposes potential. Therein lies the argument over semantics (I disagreed with "every", you suggested merit in "any"). One word instantly changing all meaning. Palexandridis expressed what I would only call a corrosive level of skepticism, standing with arms folded, ready to object before a comment is even made. My original comment is that this, to me, is a mindless and disturbing position to take up if we're to expect any progress in this world.
Meh. Not holding any company or government above criticism doesn't mean that we should aspire to invent criticism where none is warranted. What a waste of time and energy.

~ CB

Well that's a subtle distinction, but I grant you it IS a distinction, and one worth contemplating.

Re: Corrosove skepticism. I'm inclined to agree with you here, but my initial reluctance was probably due to my cynical nature, which was of course caused by years of disappointment at Apple's refusal to upgrade video cards. ;^)

 

[Cleverboy]

Re: Corrosove skepticism. I'm inclined to agree with you here, but my initial reluctance was probably due to my cynical nature, which was of course caused by years of disappointment at Apple's refusal to upgrade video cards. ;^)

Amen to you there. I remember thinking how cool it was to have the CPU on a removable daughterboard, only to have Apple smile and shrug as they moved on to newer machines. It's alarming to think a faster, used, new machine costs less than a faster daughterboard for my old G4. T'aint right!

~ CB

 

[Blogger]

Amen to you there. I remember thinking how cool it was to have the CPU on a removable daughterboard, only to have Apple smile and shrug as they moved on to newer machines. It's alarming to think a faster, used, new machine costs less than a faster daughterboard for my old G4. T'aint right!

~ CB

Yes! been there, suffered that.

 

[snugharbor]

"worked." should be "worked on." I am not questioning you, but don't you think Steve (or his people) would proofread email before sending it?

"Worked" is a project management term. I've "worked" the issue.

BTW, it's been 7 weeks and no word that in fact NVIDIA or Apple has fixed the 8800GT so it would work on old MPs...7 weeks is no longer in the "few weeks realm" so becoming vaporish. Another month one cannot argue a few weeks means 12 weeks.

 

[Nugget]

BTW, it's been 7 weeks and no word that in fact NVIDIA or Apple has fixed the 8800GT so it would work on old MPs...7 weeks is no longer in the "few weeks realm" so becoming vaporish. Another month one cannot argue a few weeks means 12 weeks.

The 8800 isn't even shipping yet (as a standalone upgrade) for the new model Mac Pros. It's unrealistic to expect Apple to be worried about releasing the backported version if they can't even make them fast enough to satisfy the existing orders for new purchasers. I wouldn't expect to see any updates to the card until they've at least caught up with existing orders.

 

[krye]

Personally, I'd be a little upset, maybe insulted that Steve Jobs got on the horn and told me to sit down and shut up. The return email wasn't very PR and comes across as blunt and rude. How about a "sorry for the inconvenience” or maybe a "thank you for your patience and understanding". Looks like His Steveness needs a new "administrative assistant".

 

[Ozy]

Aw crap. I just got notice from the Apple Store that my 8800GT shipped. I'm afraid to open it because it probably won't work. I was hoping they'd update the EFI before sending it out since it's been so long. I may try to sell it to someone here that needs it for what I paid instead of sending it back to Apple if I end up not being able to use it.

NVIDIA GEFORCE 8800 GT GRAPHICS CARD-INT
MB137Z/A

$349.00

Shipment Date:
Feb 28, 2008

Delivers by:
Feb 29, 2008

 

[barefeats]

Ozy, if it wasn't delivered, call Apple customer service. I had a situation similar in the past. They noted it in my records and told me to refuse delivery.

I can assure you it won't work on any Mac Pro but the 2008. We have the older Mac Pros and tried it just to make sure. Its the EFI issue as explained before.

And it's not a fix you can make with a simple firmware or driver update from Apple. nVIDIA has agreed to make a "legacy" version. That much has been confirmed. But it's not clear when it will ship or whether you will by it from Apple or nVIDIA or another source.

 

[Blogger]

Ozy, if it wasn't delivered, call Apple customer service. I had a situation similar in the past. They noted it in my records and told me to refuse delivery.

I can assure you it won't work on any Mac Pro but the 2008. We have the older Mac Pros and tried it just to make sure. Its the EFI issue as explained before.

And it's not a fix you can make with a simple firmware or driver update from Apple. nVIDIA has agreed to make a "legacy" version. That much has been confirmed. But it's not clear when it will ship or whether you will by it from Apple or nVIDIA or another source.

I thought someone noted that Apple had said that it would be selling it at the Apple Store.

 

[antzona]

Ozy, if it wasn't delivered, call Apple customer service. I had a situation similar in the past. They noted it in my records and told me to refuse delivery.

I can assure you it won't work on any Mac Pro but the 2008. We have the older Mac Pros and tried it just to make sure. Its the EFI issue as explained before.

And it's not a fix you can make with a simple firmware or driver update from Apple. nVIDIA has agreed to make a "legacy" version. That much has been confirmed. But it's not clear when it will ship or whether you will by it from Apple or nVIDIA or another source.

I've already posted this, but Steve Jobs told me that "nVidia is engineering this card, which we (Apple) will distribute." If Apple is distributing the card I assume we will be buying it from them.

 

[mac 2005]

I highly doubt that this is from Jobs, if from Apple at all, he would not deal with a single email like this, he would never word a letter to a customer as the negative publicity that would result. This sounds like it is completely made up.

As opposed to partially made up? What is it with the fanboys here who can't address the underlying reality? Apple is a company, just like every other company. Its products frequently fail to live up to the hype, and it only responds to quality problems when "enough" consumers are affected.

Everyone here knows that he or she would rather take a sucker punch than work for Steve Jobs; he's a "demanding boss," to say the least. So why do you lash out at people who express an opinion instead of thanking your lucky stars that your [insert Apple product here] didn't suffer the same fate?

In a mass-produced economy, it's a numbers game. Get off your high horse and show other people the same respect you'd want if it were your Macintosh hard drive that inexplicably failed and destroyed your recent vacation photos. What is the cost to you if someone expresses disappointment with their experience?

 

[clu10]

I agree. Doesn't sound like Steve at all.

wow i didnt kno u knew steve live that

 

[Bubba Satori]

>Name withheld,
>
>I suggest you calm down. Everyone knows we don't put the 8800 in he iPhone. Next.
>
>Steve

 

[BlackMax]

"worked." should be "worked on." I am not questioning you, but don't you think Steve (or his people) would proofread email before sending it?

Actually this is not correct. You are never supposed to end a sentence with a preposition, but placing a verb at the end of a sentence is perfectly acceptable.

 

[syth]

Actually this is not correct. You are never supposed to end a sentence with a preposition

This is what is wrong. There is no such rule in English, there has never been such a rule in English, and the only people who ever claimed there was such a rule were stuffy fuddy-duddies who thought English should be more like Latin.

As Winston Churchill said, This is just the sort of nonsense with which I will not up put!

Unlearn that so-called 'rule'.

We can blame an 18th-century English clergyman named Robert Lowth for this one. He wrote the first grammar book saying a preposition (a positioning word, like at, by, for, into, off, on, out, over, to, under, up, with) shouldn’t go at the end of a sentence. This idea caught on, even though great literature from Chaucer to Shakespeare to Milton is bristling with sentences ending with prepositions. Nobody knows just why the notion stuck—possibly because it’s closer to Latin grammar, or perhaps because the word “preposition” means “position before,” which seemed to mean that a preposition can’t come last.​

I'll add that any famous author you can name has willfully ignored this rule.

 

[Oops]

I work for apple. Although The Steve may get a bajillion emails a day. He reads everyone. I sent an email to him one day when I wasn't so happy at work. I recieved a short but serious response within a few minutes.. The next day i came in and it seemed my response caused a bit of a **** storm within the ranks of upper management.My manager has also received personal response at one time as well as a few other employees. He reads them and responds to those he cares about.

 

[econoline06]

The email headers taken directly from Gmail (the only things I have removed are my own personal name and email address which I have marked as 'withheld'.)

Delivered-To: withheld@gmail.com
Received: by 10.115.108.3 with SMTP id k3cs150420wam;
Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:37:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.140.251.1 with SMTP id y1mr2944284rvh.292.1200188238912;
Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:37:18 -0800 (PST)
Return-Path: <sjobs@apple.com>
Received: from mail-out4.apple.com (mail-out4.apple.com [17.254.13.23])
by mx.google.com with ESMTP id b8si4866692rvf.31.2008.01.12.17.37.18;
Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:37:18 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of sjobs@apple.com designates 17.254.13.23 as permitted sender) client-ip=17.254.13.23;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of sjobs@apple.com designates 17.254.13.23 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=sjobs@apple.com
Received: from relay12.apple.com (relay12.apple.com [17.128.113.53])
by mail-out4.apple.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92D1D1EB9EA5
for <withheld@gmail.com>; Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:37:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: from relay12.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1])
by relay12.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 7B63328091;
Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:37:18 -0800 (PST)
X-AuditID: 11807135-a641abb0000010e7-37-47896b4e0898
Received: from earhart.apple.com (bond.apple.com [17.150.10.13])
by relay12.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 5FC9C2804D
for <withheld@gmail.com>; Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:37:18 -0800 (PST)
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Received: from wave1.apple.com ([17.248.4.64])
by earhart.apple.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-0.15 (built Feb
9 2007)) with ESMTP id <0JUK00HM97661N00@earhart.apple.com> for
withheld@gmail.com; Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:37:18 -0800 (PST)
Message-id: <6CE8BD10-FF0A-4D74-9DF3-6A72CED6091B@apple.com>
From: Steve Jobs <sjobs@apple.com>
To: withheld <withheld@gmail.com>
In-reply-to: <7b342f3d0801111808m6890f42aof1a5d4439068abcb@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Do the right thing
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:37:18 -0800
References: <7b342f3d0801111808m6890f42aof1a5d4439068abcb@mail.gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915)
X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA==

Now perhaps the people with no manners could please refrain from basically calling me a liar. I came here to try and reassure people, not to be insulted. As I stated, I have no knowledge of whether this is definitely Steve, however it is certainly someone who reads Steve's email, and signs themselves as Steve, so they have to have the authority to answer for him.

The main reason why I suspect it may actually be from Steve himself, would be that he's got Macworld 2 days away and this Mac Pro issue explodes in his face. He's already a busy guy, so he doesn't have a lot of time to deal with this kind of thing. I think a slightly terse response would be more likely to come from Jobs, rather than an assistant who would would answer in a less personal way and would likely give a more 'corporate' response.

If you came here to not be insulted, sorry you are out of luck. That is one of the basic elements of Macrumors....

 

[econoline06]

This is what is wrong. There is no such rule in English, there has never been such a rule in English, and the only people who ever claimed there was such a rule were stuffy fuddy-duddies who thought English should be more like Latin.

As Winston Churchill said, This is just the sort of nonsense with which I will not up put!

Unlearn that so-called 'rule'.

We can blame an 18th-century English clergyman named Robert Lowth for this one. He wrote the first grammar book saying a preposition (a positioning word, like at, by, for, into, off, on, out, over, to, under, up, with) shouldn’t go at the end of a sentence. This idea caught on, even though great literature from Chaucer to Shakespeare to Milton is bristling with sentences ending with prepositions. Nobody knows just why the notion stuck—possibly because it’s closer to Latin grammar, or perhaps because the word “preposition” means “position before,” which seemed to mean that a preposition can’t come last.​

I'll add that any famous author you can name has willfully ignored this rule.

Holy freaking crap. If I read one more STUPID argument about proper English I'm going to seriously go on a rampage. NO ONE CARES THIS IS AN INTERNET FORUM! We are not writing research papers here!!!!!!!

 

[Nugget]

Holy freaking crap. If I read one more STUPID argument about proper English I'm going to seriously go on a rampage. NO ONE CARES THIS IS AN INTERNET FORUM! We are not writing research papers here!!!!!!!

Yeah! What do you expect? This is just an online message board. Nobody here is going to win the pullet surprise for their posts. Grammer errors are pardon parcel with loosers who learn the language through talking and not through reading. Anyone is going to make those mistakes if they learned words from hearing instead of reading. Sadly, people who don't read just can't cut the muster. Alot of people would just assume watch a movie instead of read a book and it shows in there writing. For all intensive purposes these people are only exposed to new words by hearing them and they never know the proper spelling. It's simple cause and affect. The whole concept of grammer peeked my interest a few months ago and I found that there are lots of web sights that explain it in great detail. I've come to turns with it, but the sad thing is that loosers who can't spell or write english look like idiots. It's a doggy dog world out there and they're selling themselves short. One mispeled post to the internet and --walla -- the whole world knows they don't read books. I don't mean that there dumb persay, just that there probably illiterate. You might think that this is all just a mute point but I prefer to air on the side of caution. I had a piffany about this and realized that learning to spell words is a right of passage that we all should go through as children. Supposably If you don't read and skip that important step you'll never be a bonified grammar nazi like me. What can I say? People who can't write just demonstrate that ignorance is blitz.

I mean, really. Who cares if anyone knows what you're saying? All that matters is that your post count gets larger.

 

[UltraNEO*]

too many people with too much time on their hands... damn students

 

[sra. Aguirre]

I got an email back from Santa too but I didn't post it all over the forums. Ofcourse if the tooth fairy replies, I might post that one!

I almost died laughing at this reply. Thanks I was kinda in a rut before reading this brilliant post

 

[sra. Aguirre]

I'm not trying to get a "flame war" started here, but this is to the people who don't think that the message sounds like Steve, and are criticizing his English.

Get over it, please. I often wonder if Steve himself reads forums like these, and if he does, he probably shakes his head at these comments. He's human, just like the rest of us. Eventually people get frustrated and get snippy. He is not God, he is Steve Jobs. He is a very successful CEO, but that doesn't mean he has his personal e-mail approved by a team of editors.

Also... Why are people analyzing 1950's English? And what does it matter when he was born? Seriously, it's like people worship him. Again, he's just a human being, just like everyone else on this forum.

In addition, Apple as a company is not invincible to mistakes. For some reason many Macintosh users seem to believe that their computers are invincible, and nothing can ever be wrong with it. Virtually any consumer electronics company has had it's share of blunders, and I can almost guarantee that none of these problems were fixed overnight. Give Apple some time, seriously. Nobody can be perfect.

I've tried so long to resist calling people "Apple fanboys," but seriously. This stuff has got to stop. People are analyzing every detail just a liiiiittle too deeply for comfort. It's just getting creepy.

P.S. I already know what's going to happen. Somebody is going to analyze every word I typed in this post, and point out why I'm wrong. The argument will start out by somebody trying to correct me, but ultimately the flame war will exclude my post altogether. Eventually, two or three users will be duking it out and the original argument will be forgotten. Save the carpel tunnel for something more important.

I am way late with my reply but I can only say "Amen" to this one. I love my Apple stuff, I get butterflies in my stomach when I see an Apple logo, but to be zealous and arrogant and nitpicking all the time is just awful!