For only $299 USD starting price, I'm amazed those can even make a profit. My guess is that no one's hating on those because it seems an incredible value for what it is.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
8GB RAM in M3 MacBook Pro Proves the Bottleneck in Real-World Tests
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
It is artificial controversy, and all you have to look for as evidence is the fact that when the base model was more expensive with 16GB of RAM as the default low-end option, there was general silence. The pitchfork bearers weren’t out in force about it. Now this year, now that you can configure a MacBook Pro with 16GB of RAM even cheaper than last years base model, and if you want to save even more money, you can even choose a yet cheaper 8GB option, now people choose to be upset about it. And as I pointed out, many of these people were even saying that last years model and the year before’s were a great value, and now that there’s a cheaper and more accessible option in the pricing lineup for non-animators or professional 8K video editors, now all of a sudden that even cheaper option shouldn’t exist, and isn’t a good value. It comes off very strongly as hardware gatekeeping, people who have workflows that don’t reflect the norm telling people that everyone needs a machine specked up just like theirs…. And the reason I know this isn’t just about the pricing is because I have personally asked many of the people in this discussion “what if they made the 8GB option even cheaper, can it exist then?”, and they still say it shouldn’t exist whether it was cheaper or not, because “Pro” something, something or other. They don’t see that many pros don’t need or necessarily even want 16GB of RAM. Many are happy with 8GB. Instead, they’re projecting their wants and needs on everyone else, assuming everyone who wants the “pro” model must certainly need 16GB of RAM just like they do. People here have literally tried to argue you can’t have more than one app open at a time with 8GB of RAM, which is completely false. Others have tried to argue an arbitrary limit of three apps. All of which are, of course, entirely made up, and easily disproven.
For some, I’m sure pricing is what they’re upset about. But I think it’s rather odd we didn’t have this big of a stink last year or the year before, when the base models were more expensive, even with the same amount of RAM configured. If pricing is the concern, I find it rather odd to wait for the year that Apple makes the cost of entry cheaper to complain about the price being too high…. And besides, the articles and YouTube videos aren’t complaining about RAM upgrade prices, that’s not the main point, they’re about arguing that a “Pro” laptop shouldn’t have an 8GB option, and the 8GB option isn’t a good “pro” device. (While ignoring that not all Pros are animators or professional video editors handling hours of 8K video every day).
And where has anyone said you have to judge current specs and prices based on the exact same standards of tech from 5 years ago? We’ve pointed to current competitors, who still charge for RAM upgrades, sometimes even double what Apple charges. We’ve pointed to the current performance of 8GB of Unified Memory on the M chips. It would seem that that is a strawman argument. And I haven’t seen a single person “telling you what you should believe”. People have contested your arguments, pointed out factual errors, but not said “you must believe x” as far as I’ve seen. Another strawman argument that isn’t at all productive…
My point from the very beginning of this thread, has been that it doesn’t hurt anybody for Apple to offer a cheaper 8GB RAM option. It acts as a bridge option for people to be able to get the nice hardware of the pro model cheaper. If this were only about price, one would think that everyone could agree that there could be a place for a cheaper 8GB RAM option, even if it fell below it’s current pricing and the 16GB option took it’s place on the pricing ladder. But that doesn’t seem to be enough, people are making wild claims about 8GB options like “can’t have more than 3 apps open at once”, that just don’t even hold up to reality…
Last edited:
You did. The post was you asserting what other people believe and pointing to past figures or otherwise basing your assertions on shifting goal posts. Maybe YOU didn't make that argument but many have done so (it's 58 pages that I don't want to have to read through again) and telling us what we believed in terms of price verses specs. Telling us that 'if this model started off at $1799 with 16 GB RAM we'd not be having this argument' or otherwise presenting hypothetical situations.
I think the refresh of the iMac and 'budget' 14 MBP are the straw that breaks the camels back. The present iMac for instance has the exact same base configuration for RAM and Storage as it did six years ago! The facts that you keep asserting are being leveled at me... doesn't change that Apple's base stats have largely stagnated across all their consumer products without any significant reduction in price for said stats. Back in the day when the Intel iMac could still be upgraded, low stats and high upgrade costs to replaceable components like SSD's and RAM modules weren't such a big deal.
The reason that consumers should be complaining is because Apple needs to know we aren't happy with their strategy for price gouging on upgrades. Right now they've got a sense that devoted Apple users will inevitably have to buy an overpriced M series computer, but our response determines how open they are to negotiating for lower prices or better specs. That's why this thread exists and why people like you shouldn't be defending Apple's practices. It's not any one thing but their entire MO and these are just the latest examples.
I did? I told you, “you need to believe what I do”? I’m pretty sure I recall saying things like “you can believe whatever you want” and “We don’t have to agree”… 🤷🏼♂️. But that probably doesn’t matter, because now you’re the one leveling blame at people for things they never said or did. Show me the quote where I told you “you have to believe what I do”, and then we can talk about that…
People have made the point it likely wouldn’t be this controversial if Apple had stuck with the base specs they did the last couple years, and as far as I can tell, they’re probably right. It’s not about whether you would be upset about it or not, it’s about whether an article like this would even exist, and whether or not the content creators would be trashing the base spec. They didn’t the last two years, so I have no reason to assume they would have this year if it weren’t for the cheaper base spec configuration, which is pretty much the only thing that’s changed this go around. That’s the point I’ve seen people make…
Also, as I said, some people on this discussion don’t believe an 8GB option should exist whether it were cheaper or not. I’ve given them a hypothetical situation where the 8GB option is yet cheaper, and their response is “an 8GB option shouldn’t exist on a “pro” laptop no matter what the price point is.” So clearly these people don’t just think the RAM is too expensive, they think that the 8GB option shouldn’t exist at all.
After claiming I told you what to believe, and was supposedly telling you what to do, you go to telling me what I should or shouldn’t do, lol! 😂. “People like you shouldn’t be defending Apple’s practices”. Well, for starters, I don’t agree with your premise that the upgrade pricing is “gouging”. Competitors do it, and as I’ve already demonstrated, some are double the price. So I disagree with the premise that Apple’s gouging here. In fact, I pretty much just disagree with that entire last paragraph, it’s all opinion based. You can’t really know what “sense” Apple has about this or not, you’re not Apple. You’re just packaging your subjective opinions about Apple’s actions or “senses” as facts, but they remain nothing more than opinions…
Last edited:
Yes and no. I like running as few apps as possible when I'm trying to be productive, but I've found it's really not necessary. Unless there's a single app using a ton of memory the paging seems pretty good.
I'm definitely not saying it's for everyone, but the existence of an 8GB model is totally reasonable. Having more memory being strictly a BTO option for some models (and thus not available at resellers) is not. (I do have access to a 32GB Mac when I need it.)
It’s the way the memory chips are used in the design (by Apple). Unified Memory is typically more expensive.
Last edited:
I don't think RAM chip modules know or care whether they are being used as a unified system or not. This statement does not make any sense. The unified memory functions are all part of Apple's SoC processor design.
That doesn't make any sense at all, LPDR RAM is LPDR RAM, period, being in a Mac doesn't change that one iota.
Apparently you have not worked in Adobe After Effects. Larger resolutions (more than 4k) require more RAM, as do previews. In reality there is never enough RAM for After Effects; it will gobble every bit up.
Cost can be incurred by the way that parts are assembled requiring extra steps in production, etc. I didn’t say RAM chip modules cared about the way they were being used, that isn’t even close to what I said. I was talking about the way Apple uses them in the design.
Well there isn't exactly a ton of different ways particular RAM modules can be used. My guess is there is only 1 way to use them if you want it to work.
That’s actually not quite true. Most other laptops don’t use Unified Memory. And factors such as location on the board, direct or indirect interface (whether they’re soldered directly to the CPU chip package or soldered on a less direct interface), etc. can be different as well.
Last edited:
Actually, any laptop or desktop utilizing an iGPU is technically functioning on the concept of “Unified Memory” as the RAM is utilized by the CPU & GPU.
Well, unified memory actually isn't unique to Apple, Intel has been doing the exact same thing with their iGPUS for several years now. It's just that Intel doesn't really market it the same way that Apple does (and frankly it doesn't really make sense for them to do so, since their iGPUs aren't really fast enough for them to make this sort of thing a big selling point.)
As far as unified memory is concerned, there isn't really anything special about the RAM itself. It's just memory (they don't have to use special RAM chips or anything to achieve it). The use of a unified pool for both the GPU and the CPU memory is what makes it special.
Apple's secret sauce for making 8GB perform so well actually has much less to do with them using unified memory, and has a lot more to do with Apple simply having a very, very efficient way of handling virtual memory. The performance penalties for memory compression seem to be substantially lower on Apple-Silicon Macs than for the Intel ones, so Apple Silicon Macs are generally able to perform much better in moderately-high memory pressure scenarios than their older Intel predecessors can.
Last edited:
I didn’t say they had to use special chips to do it. I’m just saying that the location on the board, the required process for attachment, etc. can affect the cost. Besides, other competitors are charging equal or even double, so I don’t think it’s a big deal that Apple charges for RAM upgrades.
The only thing Apple is really doing differently here is that they're just running more memory channels. They're not really designing some special kind of memory interface or anything, they just happen to solder it much closer to the CPU than their competitors do.
The secret sauce is in the SOC. The RAM chips are just RAM.
You are right, I don't use After Effects, but I use databases, those swallows RAM easily. My main system has 64 GB, I came from 32 GB, which is not enough for my needs anymore.
But back to the topic, most common uses (low consumption), climbing from 16 to 32 RAM makes pretty much a minimal benefit, but the benefit from going from 8 to 16 even with low consumption, the benefit is huge.
There's a difference between complaining of having too much memory, and complaining that 8gb ram is not enough for users. That's the whole point, and many people here seem to be trying to conflate the two. Just because you are not able to get a 16 gb laptop for the price of the existing 8gb MBP doesn't automatically mean that a MBP with 8gb ram is utterly worthless. It just means you are not willing to spend the extra money to get more ram, that's all.
All other things equal, I wouldn't complain if my MBA had come with 16gb ram instead of 8 when I bought it in 2020. That said, it's also a fact for me that 8gb of ram has sufficed for my workflow for the past 3 years. Considering that I will likely stay on as a teacher for the next couple of years, there's no reason to think why 8gb of ram will suddenly not suffice for me in the near foreseeable future, because the work I do on it likely won't change very much.
And when I upgrade to another Mac, it probably won't be because my current MBA didn't have enough ram, but because I have had it for long enough and feel that it's finally time for something newer. Maybe I want a 15" MBA for the larger screen (I have been living and breathing spreadsheets for the past few months). Maybe the battery just isn't as good 5 years later. Or I just want a dedicated HDMI port.
This is the exact opposite of forced obsolescence. I agree with you that Apple computers are essentially premium models, and I do feel that I have been getting a premium user experience with my MBA for the past 3 years, 8gb ram and 256gb storage and all. Specs are just the means, user experience is the end, and if Apple is able to sell me a superior experience despite having the same specs (or even less) than that of the competition, then good on Apple, and they deserve every cent of savings they are able to shave off the cost price of making said product.
That's just honestly how I feel. If and when I ever find myself needing more ram (say I decide to quit teaching to become a YouTuber some day), I can purchase a 14" or 16" MBP with the right amount of ram for my needs. Though iMovie with 8gb ram will also likely suffice given my limited video editing skills.
Point is, options do exist, and I honestly feel you have all been barking up the wrong tree.
Very well said, it’s literally cheaper (even configuring it with 16GB of RAM) than it was last year, but apparently that’s not enough for these people. Every PC manufacturer charges for RAM upgrades on their laptops, that’s just a fact. Plenty are similarly priced, and some are double the cost that Apple is charging. So being upset that Apple charges for RAM updates just seems silly. And again, it’s cheaper than it was last year, so getting all worked up about it just seems unreasonable. Even with the 16GB RAM configuration, you’re still saving money. Plenty of people only want or need 8GB of RAM, so taking away the cheaper RAM option away from those people so some people can feel like the MacBook Pro is more “pro” is just silly. Just buy the RAM configuration you need, both are a great value, and both are cheaper than the previous two years base models…
I didn’t think they necessarily did have to use special RAM chips. I don’t know what unique processes may be used in the installation of the RAM on the CPU package.
But that last paragraph is essentially one of the points I’ve been trying to make for a while, I’ve used 8GB RAM Intel Macs and M-Series Macs, and they are nothing alike in how they’re able to make use of that RAM. The M-Series Macs really do make 8GB of RAM feel like 16GB. They make far more efficient use of the RAM, and everything remains snappy, even under quite a heavy load.
And Macs in 2008 also had 8GB configurations as well. Apple today has 128GB of RAM. Your point is? Computing needs have generally balanced out more. Most people don’t need more than 8GB of RAM, and those who do can just buy a configuration with the amount of RAM they want or need. $200 is a far cry from $1000, and is actually fairly competitive with other PC manufacturers as far as I can tell from comparison pricing. Some PC manufacturers even charge double what Apple does.
Reality is, 8GB of RAM is still plenty for most people (especially with the M chips, which make it feel even faster because of how efficiently they can make use of that RAM). It’s not as if there are no PCs with 8GB of RAM. 🤷🏼♂️
Last edited:
I just bought an HP desktop -- not customized at all, so a standard config, 64G of RAM and an i9 13900 for $1600. Quite a difference from Apple's desktops... And it's expandable too, socketed RAM, socketed M2, no tools case as well. The opposite of the Mac Studio.
As for some charging more than Apple, I'd say VERY few do, most are cheaper, and most are going to 16G as the base.
Sure some PCs exist with higher base specs, but so do some Macs. If you get the base spec M2 Max model of the Mac Studio, that comes in a minimum base configuration of 32GB. And is it really so hard to click a button to adjust the RAM configuration before checkout? I don’t think having a lower RAM option that’s cheaper is an issue at all, I think it’s actually a good thing. And as I have said multiple times before, the M chips use RAM more efficiently. Have you ever used an 8GB RAM M series MacBook? I have, and it’s quite different from an Intel MacBook in terms of how efficiently it can make use of that RAM. It’s so efficient, it clobbers my SO-DIMM Mid 2012 MacBook Pro with 16GB of RAM. And I’ve used newer Intel chips with 16GB or more as well, and they’re still not nearly as snappy as the 8GB M chip Macs.
I don’t see how it hurts anyone to have a cheaper option available for those who only want or need 8GB of RAM, and again, even if you configure it up to 16GB of RAM, it’s still cheaper than the base configuration was last year and the year before.
As to RAM pricing, I’d say when you’re comparing against the high-end premium PC laptops, or gaming PC laptops, which are more comparable to the MacBook Pros, they actually tend to either cost just as much, or, in several cases, more, even double. If you’re comparing the MacBook Pro against more consumer level PCs, or light business PCs, then that might get different results, but the reality of the situation is that the MacBook Pro is a high-end premium laptop, so comparing it against the more intermediate or budget options isn’t really a fair comparison.