8GB RAM in M3 MacBook Pro Proves the Bottleneck in Real-World Tests

[Agincourt]

I think we're just saying the exact same thing without either side really accepting anything.

What I'll concede:
-8 GB of RAM (even for PC's) is more than enough for most consumers and is probably going to be for next five years
-Less RAM installed means less manufacturing cost to Apple
-New MBP even with increased RAM is noticeably cheaper than the standard M3 MBP
-Cost to upgrade tends to come at a premium for most companies and not just Apple

Here's what points I stand by
-Apple machines are not upgradable and thus 8 GB RAM will not be as likely to last a decade as last generation. I'm using an old 27 iMac with 32GB RAM and 1 TB of internal SSD storage that's more than enough for my needs today.
-Apple's base stats ARE superficially significant to those not familiar with computers and willing to switch over, thus paying a premium for a computer should be expected to come with more than the base minimum stats.
-The specs on new Apple computers have largely remained stagnant on components which once were replaceable, whereas other companies are pushing higher base stats as tech advances and/or becomes cheaper.
-Complaints are relevant because Apple COULD be making better products with higher base stats, but are getting huge profit margins from upgrades. The more we vocalize our displeasure, the more likely they are to offer better deals.

This being said Apple COULD simply upgrade the base RAM of all their computers and capitalize on their present tech advantage, but instead they opt for the short-term profit gain.

 

[bobcomer]

Sure some PCs exist with higher base specs, but so do some Macs. If you get the base spec M2 Max model of the Mac Studio, that comes in a minimum base configuration of 32GB. And is it really so hard to click a button to adjust the RAM configuration before checkout?

No, it's not hard to click a button, but it does change it to a BTO and increases the time you'll have to wait for it and changes the cost as well. A standard config might have a sale on it as well. (like the PC I bought)

I don’t think having a lower RAM option that’s cheaper is an issue at all, I think it’s actually a good thing.

I don't mind that either, but if you make that the default config and everything else a BTO, I do mind it that aspect of it.

And as I have said multiple times before, the M chips use RAM more efficiently. Have you ever used an 8GB RAM M series MacBook?

Yeah, you keep saying that, but I don't agree. And no, I never have used an M processor Mac with only 8G of RAM as it would be useless to me. I have bigger VM's than 8G! I did have a 16G MBA -- worst experience I've ever had with a computer.

And I’ve used newer Intel chips with 16GB or more as well, and they’re still not nearly as snappy as the 8GB M chip Macs.

All I can do is laugh at that. I use more Windows than Mac, and good Windows machines are just as good or better than Macs.

I don’t see how it hurts anyone to have a cheaper option available for those who only want or need 8GB of RAM,

See what I said above about BTO.

As to RAM pricing, I’d say when you’re comparing against the high-end premium PC laptops, or gaming PC laptops, which are more comparable to the MacBook Pros, they actually tend to either cost just as much, or, in several cases, more, even double.

That's not even close to my experience. And I buy PC's for more than just me, I buy them for the company I work for. It's almost always cheaper than what Apple sells RAM as an option for.

 

[Kal Madda]

I think we're just saying the exact same thing without either side really accepting anything.

What I'll concede:
-8 GB of RAM (even for PC's) is more than enough for most consumers and is probably going to be for next five years
-Less RAM installed means less manufacturing cost to Apple
-New MBP even with increased RAM is noticeably cheaper than the standard M3 MBP
-Cost to upgrade tends to come at a premium for most companies and not just Apple

Here's what points I stand by
-Apple machines are not upgradable and thus 8 GB RAM will not be as likely to last a decade as last generation. I'm using an old 27 iMac with 32GB RAM and 1 TB of internal SSD storage that's more than enough for my needs today.
-Apple's base stats ARE superficially significant to those not familiar with computers and willing to switch over, thus paying a premium for a computer should be expected to come with more than the base minimum stats.
-The specs on new Apple computers have largely remained stagnant on components which once were replaceable, whereas other companies are pushing higher base stats as tech advances and/or becomes cheaper.
-Complaints are relevant because Apple COULD be making better products with higher base stats, but are getting huge profit margins from upgrades. The more we vocalize our displeasure, the more likely they are to offer better deals.

This being said Apple COULD simply upgrade the base RAM of all their computers and capitalize on their present tech advantage, but instead they opt for the short-term profit gain.

- I’ll concede that having more RAM than you could ever possibly need doesn’t hurt anyone. As I’m likely to buy base spec for most Apple products, I’ve never been hurt by having higher base specs such as greater amounts of storage.
- I’ll concede that obviously Apple’s RAM is non-user upgradable, so can create a bit more anxiety for some when choosing which spec to go with, as they won’t be able to upgrade it themselves later.

That said, here are a couple points I will stand by:

- 8GB of RAM feels significantly different in an M chip Mac than an Intel one. This has been my personal experience, and the experience of several friends of mine as well. You can take it or leave it, but I really would recommend you try one if you never have, because it feels like magic. 👍🏻
- If the base configuration were 16GB, it probably wouldn’t be as cheap. It would probably up the price of the base configuration more, which wouldn’t be too bad since it’s already lower than the last two years before, but it would make it that much less accessible for people on a tighter budget.
- I think enough other advances have been made with the hardware that the RAM options being “stagnant” doesn’t really matter. In my mind, we’re currently at a point where most people can comfortably use 8GB of RAM, especially on Apple Silicon, so I don’t view “stagnation” in this area as a big deal.
- I think either way, with a base spec of 8GB or 16GB, the MacBook Pro is a great value for what’s on offer.

I think we do agree on a lot at the end of the day, and it’s nice to see where people can agree on some common ground. 👍🏻

 

[ric22]

I just bought an HP desktop -- not customized at all, so a standard config, 64G of RAM and an i9 13900 for $1600. Quite a difference from Apple's desktops... And it's expandable too, socketed RAM, socketed M2, no tools case as well. The opposite of the Mac Studio.

That's how desktops should be... Unless I was buying something as cheap as base spec Mac Mini, I'd want a machine I know can stand the test of time. Even the Mac Mini should have SSD slots that are accessible still, as that's purely an anti-consumer change.

 

[SolarBear28]

Some PC manufacturers even charge double what Apple does.

You keep repeating this over and over again but if you took some time with Microsoft's configurator you would see that upgrades are often bundled together, with huge discounts. And regardless of those specifics, finding rare outliers that no one in their right mind would purchase doesn't show anything.

Reality is, 8GB of RAM is still plenty for most people (especially with the M chips, which make it feel even faster because of how efficiently they can make use of that RAM). It’s not as if there are no PCs with 8GB of RAM. 🤷🏼‍♂️

A 1080p screen and plastic chassis are enough for most people but nobody is arguing for Apple to do that. Apple sells a premium experience. 8GB of RAM is not plenty for most people, though perhaps it is adequate for a decent number of people.

 

[Kal Madda]

You keep repeating this over and over again but if you took some time with Microsoft's configurator you would see that upgrades are often bundled together, with huge discounts. And regardless of those specifics, finding rare outliers that no one in their right mind would purchase doesn't show anything.


A 1080p screen and plastic chassis are enough for most people but nobody is arguing for Apple to do that. Apple sells a premium experience. 8GB of RAM is not plenty for most people, though perhaps it is adequate for a decent number of people.

Actually, I have played with Microsoft’s configurator now several times, several days, checked, double-checked, and re-checked, and every time I get the exact same price for just RAM upgrades. No CPU upgrades, no storage upgrades, nothing. I’ve checked this at least 3 times now, and they’re very clearly only for RAM. And I’ve seen the same double Apple’s price for RAM upgrades with AlienWare gaming laptops, so it’s not just Microsoft. Not to mention that lots of other manufacturers charged the same or about the same as Apple does, especially when the upgrades are the faster RAM that is actually comparable to the speed of Apple’s RAM. The way I’ve seen several of these PC manufacturers manage RAM upgrades by offering two upgrade prices for the same RAM upgrade: one for slower RAM, and one for faster RAM, and the faster RAM is typically near, at, or even above Apple’s price. The problem is many people in this conversation aren’t comparing premium, high performance PC laptops against the MacBook Pro, which is a premium, high performance laptop. And how do you claim to speak for “anyone in their right mind”? I’ve seen lots of people compare Microsoft’s lineup to Apple, and argue that if you want a premium experience on Windows like what you get with Apple, that Microsoft’s lineup is the best premium lineup for Windows PCs. Again, we should be comparing oranges to oranges, premium to premium. Microsoft is a premium brand for Windows computers, just like Apple is a premium brand, and doesn’t really sell any plastic bargain bin “wonders”.

How do you know that 8GB isn’t plenty for most people? Especially when you’ve never tried one? It clearly seems to sell pretty well, so I think it’s a rather big stretch to argue it isn’t plenty for most people.

 

[SolarBear28]

Actually, I have played with Microsoft’s configurator now several times, several days, checked, double-checked, and re-checked, and every time I get the exact same price for just RAM upgrades. No CPU upgrades, no storage upgrades, nothing. I’ve checked this at least 3 times now, and they’re very clearly only for RAM. And I’ve seen the same double Apple’s price for RAM upgrades with AlienWare gaming laptops, so it’s not just Microsoft. Not to mention that lots of other manufacturers charged the same or about the same as Apple does, especially when the upgrades are the faster RAM that is actually comparable to the speed of Apple’s RAM. The way I’ve seen several of these PC manufacturers manage RAM upgrades by offering two upgrade prices for the same RAM upgrade: one for slower RAM, and one for faster RAM, and the faster RAM is typically near, at, or even above Apple’s price. The problem is many people in this conversation aren’t comparing premium, high performance PC laptops against the MacBook Pro, which is a premium, high performance laptop. And how do you claim to speak for “anyone in their right mind”? I’ve seen lots of people compare Microsoft’s lineup to Apple, and argue that if you want a premium experience on Windows like what you get with Apple, that Microsoft’s lineup is the best premium lineup for Windows PCs. Again, we should be comparing oranges to oranges, premium to premium. Microsoft is a premium brand for Windows computers, just like Apple is a premium brand, and doesn’t really sell any plastic bargain bin “wonders”.

How do you know that 8GB isn’t plenty for most people? Especially when you’ve never tried one? It clearly seems to sell pretty well, so I think it’s a rather big stretch to argue it isn’t plenty for most people.

You want to compare similar, premium, high performance laptops? You were using a tablet that currently starts at $800, and you were purposely configuring it in a way to get less value out of your purchase. Alienware gaming laptops? It seems all the devices with overpriced upgrades are also unique devices with a strong brand name, so they overcharge for upgrades simply because they can and their users will pay.

The technical limitations of 8GB of RAM have been shown by other real users on this forum who have reported their experience doing basic office tasks, word processing, looking at PDF files, a decent number of tabs open etc. Basically, depending on how big your files are, how RAM heavy the websites you visit, and how much you multitask, 8GB may or may not be enough. So, like I said, adequate for some users, which might be acceptable for a $999 Macbook Air, but certainly not a $1600 Macbook pro.

 

[Agincourt]

I'm for 16 GB, but even I have to say that 8 GB is enough for most users. I'm just saying that adding that little bit extra as base model would make low-end Apple computers appear more competitive with PC's on a best value basis and prolong their usable life span.

 

[ric22]

It is kinda funny that you have to spend 10x more with Apple to get more RAM in a MacBook Pro than bargain basement devices provide. 😬

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

View attachment 2314328
It is kinda funny that you have to spend 10x more with Apple to get more RAM in a MacBook Pro than bargain basement devices provide. 😬

That 8gb is only equivalent to 16gb of Apple Magic RAM™

 

[Kal Madda]

You want to compare similar, premium, high performance laptops? You were using a tablet that currently starts at $800, and you were purposely configuring it in a way to get less value out of your purchase. Alienware gaming laptops? It seems all the devices with overpriced upgrades are also unique devices with a strong brand name, so they overcharge for upgrades simply because they can and their users will pay.

The technical limitations of 8GB of RAM have been shown by other real users on this forum who have reported their experience doing basic office tasks, word processing, looking at PDF files, a decent number of tabs open etc. Basically, depending on how big your files are, how RAM heavy the websites you visit, and how much you multitask, 8GB may or may not be enough. So, like I said, adequate for some users, which might be acceptable for a $999 Macbook Air, but certainly not a $1600 Macbook pro.

I’ve also looked at Microsoft’s laptops, which also charge more for RAM upgrades. The Surface Laptop 5 costs $300 to upgrade from 8GB RAM to 16GB RAM, with the same processor and storage amount. And their Surface Studio Laptop costs $600 to upgrade from 16GB to 32GB, and in that case it’s hard because they do upgrade the storage (from 500GB to 1TB) as well, but not processor, but if we assume that half is for the RAM upgrade and half is for the storage upgrade, it’s still $300. And it should be noted that upgrading the M3 Pro chip MacBook Pro from 18GB to 36GB and 512GB to 1TB costs $600, so they’re at the very least equal. So yes, I have compared it to laptops, not just the Surface Pro, and it seems Microsoft pretty consistently charges at least as much as Apple, and generally more. And the MacBook Pro is a “unique device with a strong brand name”, so that’s exactly the kind of devices we should be comparing it with. Comparing a MacBook Pro against options that are middling competition to the MacBook Air isn’t a fair comparison.

Real users have also demonstrated that 8GB of RAM is plenty for them and their workflow. Have you ever used an 8GB RAM M-Series Mac? I actually have, and I haven’t been able to overload it, I have used an 8GB RAM M-Series Mac, and I’ve used an 8GB RAM Intel Mac, and they are substantially different in how efficiently they handle RAM. And an 8GB RAM M-Series chip absolutely performs about the same as a 16GB RAM Intel Mac does in my experience. And if you don’t think 8GB RAM is enough for you, you can buy a 16GB RAM model, and it’s still cheaper than the last two years.

 

[ric22]

That 8gb is only equivalent to 16gb of Apple Magic RAM™

That laptop with 8GB of RAM actually costs less than Apple charge for 8GB RAM 🤦‍♂️ Truly shameful.

 

[Kal Madda]

View attachment 2314328
It is kinda funny that you have to spend 10x more with Apple to get more RAM in a MacBook Pro than bargain basement devices provide. 😬

That’s kind of a false premise though. It would be like comparing the cost of a Dodge to a Porsche, and then being surprised when “I have to pay 10x more for the same number of seats in a Porsche”. It’s completely irrelevant, because you’re comparing apples to oranges (pun kind of intended).

 

[chucker23n1]

That’s kind of a false premise though. It would be like comparing the cost of a Dodge to a Porsche, and then being surprised when “I have to pay 10x more for the same number of seats in a Porsche”. It’s completely irrelevant, because you’re comparing apples to oranges (pun kind of intended).

No it isn’t, because Apple are the ones treating RAM as a key, customizable spec, in a way Porsche and Dodge aren’t for seats.

 

[bobcomer]

I’ve also looked at Microsoft’s laptops, which also charge more for RAM upgrades. The Surface Laptop 5 costs $300 to upgrade from 8GB RAM to 16GB RAM

I only see $200 for the 13" and only $100 for the 15" Surface Laptop 5. But like I said before, two wrongs don't make a right, and I don't buy Microsoft devices. (I would if there were a good sale, as I like their tech). You're probably using MSSRP rather than the discounts that happen all the time that I've seen.

If I used the same criteria as I do for Windows machines for cost, I'd never buy a Mac! That's what you're arguing against in the Windows realm -- we have choice and usually the lower cost wins. All I'm asking is for Apple to be a bit more competitive with the HP's, Lenovo's, and Dell's. (and other smaller vendors of course)

For good hardware, HP actually looks the best cost wise right now, that's new for me, Lenovo was the cheapest before. That PC I just bought is an HP -- the first HP since a Windows 7 AiO I had a long time ago. (Which is still in service btw, my sister has it)

 

[ric22]

That’s kind of a false premise though. It would be like comparing the cost of a Dodge to a Porsche, and then being surprised when “I have to pay 10x more for the same number of seats in a Porsche”. It’s completely irrelevant, because you’re comparing apples to oranges (pun kind of intended).

To use the car analogy:

The £9,000 second hand Dodge comes with 25 litres of Texaco hi octane petrol.

Meanwhile, Porsche will charge you £90,000 for the car, and an extra £10,000 to top you up with 25 litres of Texaco hi octane petrol. 😬

 

[Kal Madda]

No it isn’t, because Apple are the ones treating RAM as a key, customizable spec, in a way Porsche and Dodge aren’t for seats.

Basically every computer company treats RAM as a customizable spec. Show me the company that charges exactly the same for the 8GB RAM and 16GB RAM configurations of the exact same computer, and then we can talk about that, but spoiler, they don’t exist. What the people here are arguing about is whether or not Apple is charging too much for RAM. Not whether or not PC manufacturers charge for upgrades, because that’s just a fact. Whenever a PC manufacturer offers upgrades, they charge for them.

 

[Kal Madda]

To use the car analogy:

The £9,000 second hand Dodge comes with 25 litres of Texaco hi octane petrol.

Meanwhile, Porsche will charge you £90,000 for the car, and an extra £10,000 to top you up with 25 litres of Texaco hi octane petrol. 😬

I didn’t see any RAM upgrade price in the screenshot you provided. And it’s meaningless, because the RAM they’re putting in that bargain basement computer is very likely not nearly as fast as the RAM being upgraded in the MacBook Pro. And again, you’re trying to compare a premium high-performance device against a bargain bucket clunker, not remotely comparable. Pricing is different because they’re different categories. Compare the RAM upgrade pricing Windows computers actually in the MacBook Pros weight class, and the RAM upgrades are at generally at least the same, often more.

 

[chucker23n1]

Basically every computer company treats RAM as a customizable spec.

I’m not the one who did the car analogy. That’s entirely on you. I only explained why the analogy doesn’t work.

 

[Kal Madda]

I only see $200 for the 13" and only $100 for the 15" Surface Laptop 5. But like I said before, two wrongs don't make a right, and I don't buy Microsoft devices. (I would if there were a good sale, as I like their tech). You're probably using MSSRP rather than the discounts that happen all the time that I've seen.

If I used the same criteria as I do for Windows machines for cost, I'd never buy a Mac! That's what you're arguing against in the Windows realm -- we have choice and usually the lower cost wins. All I'm asking is for Apple to be a bit more competitive with the HP's, Lenovo's, and Dell's. (and other smaller vendors of course)

For good hardware, HP actually looks the best cost wise right now, that's new for me, Lenovo was the cheapest before. That PC I just bought is an HP -- the first HP since a Windows 7 AiO I had a long time ago. (Which is still in service btw, my sister has it)

Of course I’m using the normal price of the product in my comparison, MacBooks go on discount as well, but the only fair way to actually compare the normal price both companies are charging is to, well, compare the normal price both companies are charging. 🤷🏼‍♂️.

And what am I arguing against in the Windows realm? That part of your comment is completely unclear to me, no matter how many times I read it. I just think there isn’t anything wrong with the existence of an 8GB RAM option, and I don’t think that Apple is gouging for upgrades either. The 16GB configuration is still cheaper than the last two years base-spec MacBook Pros, so I don’t see why this is controversial at all. I think they are competitive with the HPs, Dells, and Lenovos. The MacBook Air is generally more the MacBook You’d compare against most of those brand’s products. The MacBook Pro is a high performance, premium computer, it’s more comparable to premium or high performance laptops such as AlienWare and Microsoft. And I’m not saying Windows PC manufacturers can’t do whatever they’re doing with their products.

 

[Kal Madda]

I’m not the one who did the car analogy. That’s entirely on you. I only explained why the analogy doesn’t work.

The analogy was to illustrate that the price category is entirely different, so acting surprised that the price is different doesn’t make any sense. 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

[bobcomer]

And what am I arguing against in the Windows realm?

Competition, plain and simple Microsoft doesn't sell many surface laptops, because they charge too much. Lenovo, HP, and dell sell a lot, and because they're cheaper.

And no, Apple isn't being competitive on RAM upgrades, period.

 

[Kal Madda]

Competition, plain and simple Microsoft doesn't sell many surface laptops, because they charge too much. Lenovo, HP, and dell sell a lot, and because they're cheaper.

And no, Apple isn't being competitive on RAM upgrades, period.

When did I say companies like HP, Dell, or Lenovo shouldn’t exist? When did I say there shouldn’t be competition? What I did say is that the MacBook Pro is a high-performance, premium product, so it should be compared against other products actually in its weight class, other premium, high-performance machines. And when we compare those, we find that the RAM upgrade costs are either almost the same, the same, or higher. In the case of both AlienWare and Microsoft, their RAM charges are higher than Apple’s. So I think Apple is being competitive. Of course, you have to actually compare the MacBook Pro against other laptops that are actually in its weight class, not ones that are middle-of-the-road, which are generally more comparable to the MacBook Air at best. Besides, this article is saying the 8GB RAM configuration should exist or not, not about whether the cost of RAM upgrades is too high or not. People keep conflating the two as the same discussion, but really, they’re two separate questions. It’s possible for people to believe both: that an 8GB RAM option should exist, and that it’s too expensive to upgrade RAM. I don’t agree that it’s too expensive, I think it’s just fine, but I think you and I could probably agree there could be a place still for an 8GB RAM option, even if it were just a bit cheaper. Or am I assuming too much?

 

[ArkSingularity]

When did I say companies like HP, Dell, or Lenovo shouldn’t exist? I never said there shouldn’t be competition. What I did say is that the MacBook Pro is a high-performance, premium product, so it should be compared against other products actually in its weight class, other premium, high-performance machines. And when we compare those, we find that the RAM upgrade costs are either almost the same, the same, or higher. In the case of both AlienWare and Microsoft, their RAM charges are higher than Apple’s. So I think Apple is being competitive. Of course, you have to actually compare the MacBook Pro against other laptops that are actually in its weight class, not ones that are middle-of-the-road, which are generally more comparable to the MacBook Air at best.

Frankly, it's not really any better when they do it in my opinion.

 

[ksj1]

I'm confused. Are people really trying to say a low budget laptop is a better value because it has 16GB? How well does that laptop perform? How does it perform on battery? How loud is it?

I can't understand 60 pages of this over a non-issue. If you need more memory then order it. If your complaining about the cost then you're just being cheap IMO.

Kai had it right, apples and oranges lemons are being compared here.